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Topic: Druids Armor Spells! (Read 3709 times) |
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newb
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #80 on: 04/18/03 at 01:10:30 » |
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Something that has been bothering me. _Halfling_ druids can get 140+ ac, its alot harder for other races to. the majority of druids are elves from what I have seen. Also, you are talking about fully decked out druids, ie 4 crs, sgs and an aoh. A normal druid without spiffy equipment (most of the players don't have these items) doesn't have a whole lot of armor. Make your arguments more reasonable. Without the spiffy eq, they get around 122(halfling, 115 other classes) ac which is way less than a mage with aop (even without the mage having spiffy eq).
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Eternyte
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #81 on: 04/19/03 at 18:20:52 » |
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Learn how to use a Druid effectively. If you dont take advantge of their abilities it's your own fault.
Either way Druids should not be able to outspell a mage. If they get more armor class, mages should have a spell that does 100 damage or so.
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Uncensored
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #82 on: 04/19/03 at 19:16:17 » |
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If mages did 100 damage theres no question, they'll 1 round anybody without any trouble, and it's close to impossible to one round a mage with aura.
Doesn't that sound slightly unfair?
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Mammon
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #83 on: 04/20/03 at 18:19:55 » |
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You people don't appear to be listening, he isn't saying mages should get a spell that does 100 damage, as he knows as well as you and I that it would be totally unfair. He is saying a druid can outcast a mage, and in many instances, it can.
With armor spells a druid can have more ac than a mage, and they also have higher hp, making them harder to kill by other physical combatants. Then there spells at higher levels are often more powerful than that of a mages, or at least equal to them, tests I have done have shown a solid druid at level 27+ can cast stormwrath with about the same effectiveness as a mages, that coupled with them having more hp, and more ac makes them much better than a mage in many aspects.
So, he is suggesting that in the very least for them to give less armor in their armoring spells, so that a mage isn't made pretty much useless in comparison.
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newb
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #84 on: 04/20/03 at 20:16:12 » |
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Tests that I have done. These are on monsters, not on players, chairs and tables to be precise. A lvl 30 mage with 20 int was beaming chairs for 70+ while the druid (lvl 29) was storming them for mid 50's. As far as PvP go, the mages I fight are a force to be reckoned with while the druids are more of an annoyance.
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Chinsu
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #85 on: 04/20/03 at 22:12:13 » |
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Stormwrath doing the same dmg as beam?  I want to know where that druid bought his stormwrath because I want mine to do the same amount as beam.  Newb is right about dmg amounts, storm does much less.
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #86 on: 04/21/03 at 13:10:01 » |
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And since druids don't have much mana (and Stormwrath costs 10), they can't storm that much or that often. Mages have much more mana. And they also got Haste (+1 stamina at level 20)... Druids will only get that extra stamina at level 25. And at level 27 (not sure) mages get 4 stam per 10 secs, while druids get only 3.
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #87 on: 04/21/03 at 23:26:56 » |
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..... mages are much harder to train! and still u gotta pay like 10k + armor to get better ac then mage while he gotta pay 400k to get the aop
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #88 on: 04/22/03 at 11:32:34 » |
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As soon as they reach level 20, an experienced player can train a mage and level him much faster than a druid. Trust me I know.
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Eternyte
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #89 on: 04/22/03 at 18:04:33 » |
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Who's your high level mage may I ask?
Also like was said, I dont think a mage should have a spell that does 100 dmg everytime. However if a Druid can leech 100+ mana per hit it leave a mage with little mana to cast spells.
Or use even more mana which is obsurd.
I have already stated all the things I feel that could be done. So I need say no more than to clarify things that dont understand, or totally mis-represent.
"There are none so blind as those who wish not to see"
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #90 on: 04/22/03 at 18:58:09 » |
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I don't have a high level mage at the momment, but I had a few expert mages, and trained a few for friends. And I trained tons of druids. I posted tons of times that mana leech should work in a totally different way... Sorta like Vamparic. And agreed with the fact that it leeches too much.
"There are none so blind as those who don't pay attention"
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Eternyte
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #91 on: 04/22/03 at 19:33:17 » |
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Get your own quotes
Also the fact that you have only ever had expert mages seems to me that you cant train them fast at all.
If you leveled a mage to 30 by yourself, without buying one then maybe I would respect your opinion.
My level 12 Druid....You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on a Brown Bear for 43 points of damage.
A level 13 Mage....You extend your hand out, and lightning shoots from your fingertips, electrocuting a Brown Bear for 16 points of damage.
And your trying to tell me that mages level a lot faster than Druids. YOUR NUTS!!
Perhaps a level 25 mage beams for 50, but a Druid morphed hits for about the same.
This is why I think Druids are overpowered. Granted I think some things should be changed with Druids, like morph as I have stated before.
HOWEVER ON NO ACCOUNT SHOULD A DRUID OUT SPELL A MAGE!!!
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #92 on: 04/22/03 at 21:09:28 » |
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Till level 20 mages are a lot harder to train than druids. BUT it takes much longer to reach level 25 from 20 than 20 from 1. And mages can level faster than druids from 20 to 25.
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Eternyte
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #93 on: 04/22/03 at 22:20:14 » |
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Level 18 Mage....You mumble something and raise your hand, creating a massive fireball, burning a Brown Bear for 30 points of damage.
Still less than my level 12 Druid.
Level 25 Druid...You attacked a Brown Bear with a weapon for 58 points of damage, killing it. (unspelled)
Level 25 Druid...You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on a Brown Bear for 61 points of damage.
Level 26 Mage...You summon a beam of pure light, blinding a Brown Bear for 73 points of damage.
Although this damage is more considerable, it still costs more mana to use. If you want decent exp you have to go to places like the desert. You need to carry mana, which runs on very rapidly. However a Druid needs little mana, and spell costs are a lot less.
This is why I think it should be changed. I think mages leveling the way they do it fine. However lower mana costs are needed, and more spells varying.
Druids spells need to be ordered effectively, and they must not out spell a mage at high level's. For instance having more armor class.
Like I have already said. If Druids keep their superior armor class. Then remove mages armor spell. Then introduce a party protection spell. A vamparic spell, a mana leech spell, devastate, and slow.
As with this reduced armor, mages would need extra.
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #94 on: 04/23/03 at 10:38:14 » |
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Level 21 druid's max mana: 200
Level 21 mage's max mana: 300-320 aprox.
In case you haven't noticed, Stormwrath costs 10 mana. Gaea's Blessing costs 30 and Stoneskin costs 10. That's 40 inicial mana spent. After that he can storm 16 times.
Monsters seem to have higher resists to Stormwrath than to Beam or Blast. Bears have the lowest resists. Damage to monsters with stormwrath can vary between 30 and 60, depending on the monster. 16 times after those spells, they will have to run back to town or spend a lot of mana. Not less than mages, but they run out of mana much faster.
An archmage will probably have 400-440 mana (aprox., just guessing). An archdruid will have 300 mana if he's lucky and has 20 wiz.
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #95 on: 04/23/03 at 10:39:02 » |
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And mages have two ultimate spells. Druids have none at the momment. (Or at least none of the people I know ever heard of one)
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Eternyte
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #96 on: 04/23/03 at 18:48:01 » |
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on 04/23/03 at 10:38:14, Norinth wrote:Level 21 druid's max mana: 200
Level 21 mage's max mana: 300-320 aprox.
In case you haven't noticed, Stormwrath costs 10 mana. Gaea's Blessing costs 30 and Stoneskin costs 10. That's 40 inicial mana spent. After that he can storm 16 times. |
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My level 30 Mage has 365mp. 365 / 30 = 12.166, 12.166 * 21 = 255 approx mp.
Aura of Protection costs 40 mp. Haste costs 40 mp. Beam cost 17 mp per hit.
365 - 80 (combined AoP and Haste) = 285. 285 / 17 (Beam mp cost) = 16 also.
So your reasoning is totally unfounded!!
Why should a Mage cast a spell which costs more mp. Then as a result get less armor class, it's silly.
Then Beam costs and extra 7 mp. So 30 Beams = 510mp and 51 Stormwraths = 510mp also.
Should a druid be able to attack more times than an arch magic user on the same amount of mana. It's totaly rediculous.
An Arch magic user should be able to cast beam about 85 times using 510 mp. Which would total as 6 mp per beam. Perhaps 6mp is too little, then I urge you to consider clerics healing Divine Restoration heals for average of 100 at just an 8 mp costing.
What does that imply to you?
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Norinth
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #97 on: 04/23/03 at 20:32:49 » |
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I doubt your mage has 20 wis. Anyway, I was talking about 30 wis druids. Leafstorm and now Norinth both had the same ammount of mana, 200 (at level 21) with 20 wiz.
I never said mages don't need more stuff, I said the opposite. I just said druids are not as good as you are trying to make other people believe.
Still, a mage, after casting haste on himself, gets +1 stamina. Druids don't get that. And if a druid morphs, they can't cast Stormwrath. Druids camo costs more than invisibility (25) but lasts for longer, even though it cannot be cast on other people (that's why i said they should cost the same, not in this topic, but I did).
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Eternyte
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #98 on: 04/23/03 at 20:45:55 » |
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on 04/23/03 at 10:39:02, Norinth wrote:| And mages have two ultimate spells. Druids have none at the momment. (Or at least none of the people I know ever heard of one) |
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You've just named a few, Camouflage, Stormwrath, Morph, Track. Heal also, and the healing a druid does when morph is casted. Not to mention the armor spells that exceed the armor a mage gets.
Also Druids get grasping vines, isnt this also a major spell? I think so!!
Druids also have a magical wepon, that leeches mana.
I wish you'd make up your mind with what your saying, your changing what you mean with every post. It makes you look like you have even less idea than you do.
You want Druids to have an extra stamina, and be able to cast spells when morphed, and cast camouflage on other people? (if I misunderstand, I apoligise)
If thats what you mean your insane. AoP and Haste both wear off pretty rapidly as does invisibility.
For a master of magic a mage certainly doesnt have many proficiencies to distinguish it from other classes.
I have said that I would like to see things about Druids change, but I like that fact they are good now. I am merely stating that on no account should a Druid out spell a Mage in any way, shape or form. No one cant dispute that.
Also the fact that they are more expensive to train, run and maintain just adds to the point I am trying to stress to fellow players.
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Disjunction
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Re: Druids Armor Spells!
« Reply #99 on: 04/23/03 at 20:52:29 » |
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Norinth if your basing your knowledge about druids on two level 21s than ofcourse they are not gonna be as good as how Eternyte is describing them him having owned a level 28 and gotten information from other players with higher level druids after the druid update. At the mean time I own two level 20 druids ofcourse they're not gonna go out and own anything in their path they are adepts, however they are leveling at a way faster rate with less mana consumption when my mage was at that level hitting. I train them on sand spiders and they do an easy 40-50 damage on sand spiders without hardly fizzling for a level 19-20 this is great xp and they hardly use any mana. When I have put them up againt other classes of the same level they are not the best but they are not far from being. At this moment I cannot base how good a arch druid is since I have only owned one before they were updated and received these new spells, however from fighting a master druid once he had all the spells casted on they are hardly piece of cake and have a very high dodge rate. What I recommend is to get information of how good a higher level druid is wether you train one up yourself or ask a fellow player that does own one because at lower levels you will hardly see what the class is capable of at higher levels.
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