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Title: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/02/03 at 00:09:23 Why is it that a Druid can get more armor class than a level 30 mage with Aura of Protection casted. If you ask me it's totally insane. Recent test shows that a halfing druids gets 122ac with basic equipment, and 148 ac with sg's aoh and 4 cr's. THIS IS STUPID!!! How can a druid out cast an armor spell than a master magic user. No way should druids get more ac than a mage. If Druids continue to have 148 ac, mages with AoP should reach in excess for 250. A level 30 mage, with basic equipment Aura of Protecion gives them a pathetic 75 ac. With sg's, aoh, and 4 cr's the mage achieves 115. Still poxy in comparison with a Druid. Many players have agreed with me that recently mages have become mainly usable just for invisability. They are losing their worth. Maybe this post belongs in discussion because it moved onto mages. However it's blatantly obvious to see something must be done about mages been out spelled by druids. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by newb on 04/02/03 at 00:12:13 Well, before their update, druids were...useless. I agree that maybe they get too much ac, but for now, its alright. Besides, they should be able to change their physical state into something tougher and more resilient, its kind of what druids do. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Reese Stormrage on 04/02/03 at 00:12:46 Maybe aura should be 'upped', just enough to be better than a druid, but not enough to give them the unfair advantage, as i said in clan chat :) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Reese Stormrage on 04/02/03 at 00:22:51 Another suggestion i meant to mention to solve this problem without modifying druids, as i and many people think they are perfect as is; Apparently if a mage has 26 wisdom, it doesn't effect the ammount of damage done on other characters, only effects the mage's tolerance to other defensive spells. Maybe it should play a small part in how much damage is done, not much, but just enough to straighten them out a bit. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/02/03 at 00:32:26 on 04/02/03 at 00:12:13, newb wrote:
How can you say maybe they do, the figures I posted more than prove that. I think the main problem is the fact that all their armor spells can be casted on top of each other. If this was present with mages then....Base armor +10, +25, +40, * 2.5, should equal the max armor class that a mage with those spells can reach. So in effect an Arch mage with basic armor would have - 30 + 10 + 25 + 40 = 105 *2.5 = 262. Mage with Aoh, sg's and 4 cr's would then have 50 + 10 + 25 + 40 = 125 * 2.5 = 312. This is what your trying to say Newb. In fact I totally agree it would be fine like that. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Reese Stormrage on 04/02/03 at 00:40:20 I don't agree... think of dueling a mage with 300+ac, you would do 0 dmg every hit, there's no way that would be fair lol. Would be outrageous, and would then again give them the upper hand, almost making them invincible. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/02/03 at 01:12:08 LOL...you slightly missed my point Jess. I was saying that since Druids armor spells can be casted ontop of each other giving them stupid armor class. Then the same should be evident for mage. Since Newb said Druids were fine, then it should happen and see how many poeple post about mages armor then. I dont think 300 ac is a good idea by any means, but mages should have a lot more ac after spell casting than ANY other class. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Blast on 04/02/03 at 07:35:57 i completly agree with eternyte |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/02/03 at 21:16:01 on 04/02/03 at 00:12:46, Reese Stormrage wrote:
I agree with this. Stoneform doesn't last very long so with only Gaea's Blessing the armor is around 80 which i realize is more than 75...hence the reason the aura should be raised. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Mammon on 04/03/03 at 19:13:21 I also agree Eternyte I have a couple druids myself, and I found that with all armor spells, their ac is much better than a mages, which is purely idiotic, considering they already out mage a mage in attacking spells, and also defensive spells, so what is the use of having a mage? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Drizzt on 04/03/03 at 20:35:47 invis, only reason i want one lol |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/03/03 at 22:45:33 But Hey, a druid got that too....Camouflage |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/04/03 at 02:55:42 Invis can be cast on others while camo only the druid. ^.^ |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by AlliedAssault on 04/04/03 at 06:00:07 I agree with andy. When i first got my mage their armor was nice. Now even a lvl 30 halfling fighter can have 101 armor with equipt. My mage with sgs,4 crs,aoh and boots of time only has 140 ac. If a druid has 140 w/o boots of time i think that is kinda rediculous. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/04/03 at 09:09:25 140 for a Druid is total absurb anyway. It should just scrape about 100 with sg's, aoh, and 4 cr's in my opinion. Vampyre - I was talking about a pvp position. Druids are a sustainable class when played on its own. Mages however are not, due to the very rapid mana usage. From a pvp point of view camouflage actually lasts longer than invisibility, which I also find very hard to believe. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by AlliedAssault on 04/04/03 at 17:16:42 Another thing to keep in mind is that druids have a weapon to mana leech, mages do not. They regain half hp lost when they morph as well. Just for thought. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Drizzt on 04/04/03 at 17:54:31 When they morph they also can't cast spells though. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/04/03 at 22:47:34 But your not forced to morph are you? Mages are forced to cast Beam, and are forced to use Aura or Protection. Otherwise they would be totally pointless. I've never seen a mage running about pking someone with a spider staff. Either way Druids shouldnt have more ac than mages after a spell cast, nor should they be casting spells harder at lower levels. There is nothing to discuss about it. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by AlliedAssault on 04/04/03 at 23:02:34 I know people are not likeing that people are complaining but even if you are a druid user you have to see where myself and eternyte are coming from. The mage is a master magi which if that is true morphing or not nothing would top the magi's spells. This is just somthing that needs to be addressed. All because druids would not dominate doesnt mean they wont be affective. Look at ranger for instance, they dont hit as hard but a good player can beat almost anything. Be more open minded about what eternyte says. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Mammon on 04/04/03 at 23:27:20 I agree with Eternyte/Alliedassault if a mage is out mages by a druid then shouldn’t logically a mage out druid a druid? If you don’t want the druid to lose it’s armor then mages should be able to morph, and casts spells while morphed, because druids beat mages in their own profession, casting spells. I think druids armor spells should be weakened slightly, and a mages should be improved slightly because if a druid is going to be all out better than a mage, what is even the use of having them? Anyone else who can think of a suggestion that could solve this little problem, feel free to lend us your thoughts. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by newb on 04/07/03 at 20:01:03 Well, mages do more damage with beam than druids with stormwrath. Perhaps mages get less ac because they do more damage. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Drizzt on 04/07/03 at 20:21:25 Ever seen a druid in morph? Never missing and hitting for hally damage, that more than makes up for stormwrath not being up to beam damage, and you can spell up before and it lasts for half of the morph time. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/07/03 at 20:21:54 I agree that the current balance isn’t quite right in terms of mages and druids, especially in relation to armour. Having said that druids weren’t so hot before the upgrade and making them less powerful will only tip the balance again. The solution? Well I say reduce druids armour to at least equal to that or less than mages and up their heal instead. If their combined armour was dropped around 30 (maybe needs to be a bit more, can’t remember what the basic spells give) and heal increased 80-100%, then overall they would be as useful as they are now but without crazy amounts of armour. Possibly a biased opinion since I’m not playing a druid anymore and don’t want to be killed by em ;-). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Can O Socks on 04/07/03 at 22:34:02 If it was up to me, I would up the damage done by Mages, since I'd take getting hit upside the head with a spear over being burned alive any day. You guys have to remember that Mages use combat type magic (which doesn't involve armor spells) and Druids, who use more nature orientated magic, cast magic armor all the day. Magical armor is Druid's thing, it's what they do. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Oblivion on 04/07/03 at 22:59:45 Druids, use natural and stuff like that.. Mages however uses Aura's and powerfull damageing spells.. Nothing, should be able to out cast a mage's spells.. That's their profession.. Other words.. Mages should have way more armor then anything... And to can, giving yourself armor, would be an aura that circles the person and takes out some of the damage done to them.. Thus giving them more armor.. Druid isn't as good with aura's and magic spells as a mage is, mage should be way better.. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/08/03 at 03:41:46 Yes druids and mages are unbalanced...Generally mages' offensive spells are more powerful than druids, but isn't armor and protection what a druid is about? Not a magical aura sort of protection, but a natural kind. Druids are mostly about protecting nature as well as themselves... |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by AlliedAssault on 04/08/03 at 04:06:00 Vampyre you know I wanna agree with you, but I cant help it. Mages as said many time before have magic to attack and defend. Druids do use a nature type magic but regardless or not their spell abilities are to be nowhere close to a mage. This is my outlook on it. Mage-Beam -16mp x 5= 80 mp -Aura of Protection-40 mp -Haste - 40 mp Those are all a mages spells that are used in battle. Invisibility if you fight like that is added as well. Those added together = 160 mp for 1 attack aid spell, 1 defense spell, and 5 attacks. My personall arch mage has 384 mp. Thats about 40% of my mana before the other person attacks. A mages inventory isnt big enough to hold mana and also pots. Next a druid isn't restricted to just magic to attack. They can morph(regain health), hit normal which is pretty hard(regain mana), or use spells. Thats 3 different ways of attacking with major benifits. I feel that if a druid can attack and regain mana possibly mages shouls be able to cast a spells to regain mana? Just my $.02. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Aidon on 04/08/03 at 15:48:23 I think if it was just made so that druids could only use 1 armor spell at once, instead of just piling it on. This would solve their high armor problem. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/08/03 at 15:52:26 That would then make stoneform useless, as gaea's blessing lasts longer, gives a damage boost and might even give more armour. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Aidon on 04/08/03 at 16:44:32 Making one accesbile at lower levels then one open at later levels would make sense. Same way mages have low lvl armor spell until they get higher levels. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by AlliedAssault on 04/09/03 at 02:40:53 Aidon you read my mind i was literally gonna type that out. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/09/03 at 07:27:15 A druid is a protector. Other than a spell called "invincibility" (which I'm sure wouldn't go over well), how else will they protect? A mage, on the other hand, is a conjurer of magic. Powerful magic at that. Now then, to compensate, why not just make the mages stronger/eaiser to lvl? Because as it stands, Dere is my perfect stat elf mage (xx 21 19 18 20 xx) and his ranking is currently 182/1424, where as Sauruman is currently ranked at 31/851 see the pattern? very few druids in the game. More mages than druids, actually. So why all the complaining? As it stands, my stormwrath is resisted more than anything, and druids don't get a lot of mana. at 19 17 19 18 19 8, i'm resisted by journeymen, can't hit unless i have gea's blessing+morph, and it sucks because you can't cast a spell in morph, which means bye bye stoneform. it only lasts for 60 seconds, after that you're back down to 72 ac. and that doesn't stop rangers, fighters and *shudders* theives from kicking off on me. Rather than make a class worse, why not make mages better? One spell I thought of would be "Deflect" which would send damage back to the attacker, for a period of 60/90 seconds. Mages, being the powerful magicans that they are, would/should be able to do something like that. And give them devistate, they need it (along with quicker stam) I can't speak much for mages because my highest is only lvl 19, on the same token not alot can speak for druids, unless they have a high lvl one. Believe me when i say, druids are not too powerful. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/09/03 at 12:14:54 your druid is level 23, theres the problem. all other classes can get 1 clicked at level 23. Seriously druids are very very strong at lvl 27+. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/09/03 at 12:21:49 Sorry, read that as clicking but you were saying "kicking off". Also, you say 72 ac after stoneform has expired as if that’s bad. Remember that an arch fighter with the standard set has 82 ac… |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/09/03 at 23:06:04 look at the standard fighter/berserker/ranger/theives pk amount, then look at druids. doesn't seem to do them a bit of good, does it? it's not like they can't be hit/killed. If you wanna talk about something, bump down a cleric's power. heh, pking a lvl 23 cleric is impossible, divine light and aid, you'll be there for ages. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/09/03 at 23:09:54 and how many druids do you know are 27+ ? you act like there's been an uprise in them. as it currently stands, druids are the minority class in nightmist. *or just stop PKing, there's a thought.* And you're forgetting, it's a spell, not permanant. it wears off. it's proportional to wisdom, and it can't be casted on anyone else. and it can't be used much, because druids have -way- less mana than hp. not much spell casting for them. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/10/03 at 00:57:53 I don’t act like there has been an uprise I’m just one of the increasing few who understand how 140+, +40%(and over) hit bonuses, offensive spells that hit arch players for 40-50 and a small healing capacity make for a d**n tough crit. The simple truth is until a couple of months ago druids were regarded so bad that nobody used them, you can’t expect 200 arch druids over night, they are yet to win over mainstream appeal. I have now sold my druid and I don’t play one at the minute but I can tell you that when I had there was only one arch fighter that managed to kill me on it. If you look through some of the old posts I posted a few duels that showed how dangerous a druid really could be. On that level 29 druid arch fighters could only hit it for 20s and stormwath generally did 40s in return. That’s before you even think about fighting something like a pally where you can leach a hell of a lot of mana (same situation with a cleric), the tables are turned slightly when you can take 30% of what you hit for from their total mana. On the note of pking, druids make absolutely awesome pkers. Do a /who on Lexus, don’t know exactly why it’s there but “Natural Born Predator” is just perfect. First off you have camouflage, which is very tidy indeed. So you spot your victim and track them in camouflage, unleash a round of stormwrath….they run, you cast vines and finish them. Obviously you can only do this in the forest but it’s the perfect means for pking. I’m not a massive pker myself but I killed a fair few people playing Gaian, including arch rangers and a hell of a lot of fighters. And as for it being a spell, they are pretty cheap even when you cast Gaea’s and stoneform together and from what people have said a hell of a lot cheaper than mages armour spells. Anway, I’m not trying to say druids are immortal or something I just fancied an argument really. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/10/03 at 02:10:05 So your basic arguement is let the weak set the pace? Because using your same arguement, a high lvl ranger or berserker could be just as dangerous. Smite with a hally, or BoT, or rapid fire after hypno. The druids are perfect where they are, leave them alone. If you don't like them, fine, don't train them. I personally don't like rangers, but they can track and hypno (drop your chance to hit) and do hella damage, plus they get high armor. Armor that stays with them, by the way. Instead of making druids weaker, make the mages stronger. *duh* Druids are good at saving nature and covering their own a**, mages -should- be good at scaring away anything that they dont' like. Devestate and Deflect, anyone? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/10/03 at 02:13:58 And with gaea's blessing, it's still hard to hit anything. Trust me, I know. Along with vampyre, sheena and a few other commited druids. To actually hit anything, you need morph, and morphed you cant cast a spell. that means no "insane" armor levels. and why the hell can rangers carry shields? don't they use bows? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/10/03 at 03:14:56 My reason for arguing was the fact you were saying druids weren’t any good and couldn’t pk, that last post wasn’t in relation to having their armour dropped I was simply making the point that they are powerful. But now you say druids are perfect where they are…seems to have changed somewhat. I never said other classes aren’t as dangerous and that wasn’t the point of my post, I was merely trying to make it clear how useful druids really are in P v P situations. I don’t need to trust you, as far as “being committed” goes, I’ve spent a lot of time training druids in this game and I do have experience on a high level druid so I’m not just making all this up. It is just my opinion that druids are tough crits with a lot of options open to them in terms of P v P skirmishes. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/10/03 at 04:21:11 on 04/10/03 at 02:13:58, Sauruman wrote:
lol that is a good point.. not sure what it has to do w/druids but still funny ^.^ on 04/10/03 at 00:57:53, Pile wrote:
Traitor!!!! >:( heh please ignore my random outburst ::) Ok...on a more serious note, if the armor spells are made so that they will no longer be combined, Gaea's Blessing should perhaps give a bit more ac, but not so much as to be insane. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/10/03 at 13:49:05 And Gaea's Blessing is an enhancement spell. There's no logical reason it shouldn't be combined with stoneform, the only one i can be mixed with. If anything, make it to where a cleric can't cast mulituple ehancment spells on others. Every come across GoldenDragon and his/her cleric? I've seen them rip apart entire parties, and come back slightly wounded. That sounds just as rediculous as a druid's AC. Berserker's perk is power Fighter's perk is power+armor Ranger's perk is Rapid Fire+quick takedown of others Theives perk is assassinate+armor+invis Cleric's perk is great healing Mage's perk is only invis for himself and others, but they should have more Paladin's perk is power+healing (+armor, not really a perk) Druid's perk is Armor. They all have something they excel at. If not, it would be like playing a fighter with a different class name, no fun in that. <still wanted Bounty Hunters instead of Berserkers> *grumble* |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/10/03 at 14:11:27 Sauruman, druids are way overpowered, my average stat level 25 druid took down several archies, because they were rapid firing me for 20, or hitting me with a hally for 20 damage. That’s totally crazy, they really need to be changed. Stormwrath is available at to lower level, should be more like 22, same with pretty much all the new druid spells. Yes I’ve come across GoldenDragon, and if I remember correctly I ripped her to shreds. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/10/03 at 14:34:02 Yay! I was starting to think I am going completely mad, someone who agrees that druids are powerful. And guess what it’s someone who owns a druid that’s higher than level 23. Me a traitor!? Yeah, if I can face it and ever role anything good I might get me a new druid there vamp, only way I would stop you beating on my pally anyways ;). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/10/03 at 19:01:37 * comes back from a long, long sleep. Druids are not so bad (now)... But they are not so good. Morph SHOULD be changed (the most important thing at the momment, my opinion of course) and a new summon spell would be nice. It seems Charm is too hard to code, just a summon spell (for a change). Druids are quite powerful at higher levels, but now druids are pking machines. Track is a pking ability most of the time, Grasping Vines is DEFINETLY the ultimate pk spell. With extra armor and camo / track combo, they are the best pkers (after zerkers and maybe rangers). No mage can survive a level 27+ druid... Nor can a cleric or a paladin. Heal should be upped (30-40 at level 30 MIN) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/10/03 at 19:11:37 You really don't get it do you. Druids are overpowered, they do not need to be improved. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/10/03 at 19:24:49 on 04/10/03 at 19:01:37, Norinth wrote:
Hum... my friend's mage ripped me apart. I didn't try to storm him because i figured it would get resisted too much, and when i used morph against him it didnt do much dmg. ??? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/10/03 at 19:30:27 Heh and pile I was just messing with ya ^.^ /hug But I do agree with you, druids are powerful now. But common, remember how useless they used to be? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/10/03 at 20:03:48 Just because they used to be useless it doesn't mean they now have to be over powered. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/11/03 at 05:33:38 They are not overpowered, they are PROTECTED! What about clerics? Druid vs. Cleric *or anything vs. cleric* = standoff. And if you go out with the motives to pk, you're gonna get the gold. They weren't planning on an attack, you were *duh*. Just because you can't run through them like yogurt in a lactose intolerant stomach doens't mean they're overpowered. Magic isn't their main use, they have some of everything. Any ANY crit at lvl 27+ has the potential to rip through an archie, ever heard of stats? If you don't like them, don't train/attack them. Simple, no? Let me ask you this; what would you like to see happen to them, drop them down until they're easy to pk again? Let the weak set the pace? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/11/03 at 09:40:39 You really have no idea, a level 25 being able to take down perf arch fighters, rangers etc, is OVERPOWERED! How many times do we have to tell you? What would I want to see happen to them? Have their armour dropped, maybe change morph because hitting for hally damage and never missing is slightly crazy (This is against arch crits) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/11/03 at 14:22:38 Sauruman, you are goon. And any crit doesn’t have the potential to rip through an archie druid when they have 140+ armour so yet another void argument. A perfect archie fighter fully decked cannot take down a similar level druid simply because they cannot hit for much over 20. Yes I do know this because I duelled numerous fighters on a level 29 druid (that didn’t even have amazing stats). And I imagine the good man Rampage over there is talking from experience with Lyandor; This crit was mine and it had something like 208-209 hp at level 25, not exactly perfect either. I withdraw my interest in this topic because you are going over the same crap continuously. You do not listen to reason and I’m so fed up with your mindless whining nothing I post is even on topic. Once your druid is actually a decent level come back and I will listen to your opinions. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/11/03 at 15:04:42 Yup, I no longer own Lyandor now, I sold him and i'm trying to find one with better stats, no luck yet. Sauruman, none of your arguements have been any good, druids have far to much armour, there too powerful and they need to be improved. I'm gonna do the same as Pile as your stupidity is really starting to piss me off. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/11/03 at 15:18:48 I already KNOW what you're saying, I'm just not agreeing with you. On the same token, you're not listening to me. All you really bring to the table is how you had duels and won/lost with a high level druid, something that's not commonly seen in the game. Yet, as you and ramapage are trying to imply. You're basically saying that because a druid can have 14?+armor, they're overpowered. I'm basically saying that they're not overpowered, the armor is thier specialty/perk point in the game. Then someone else brought gaea's blessing to the table, which is similar to righteous fury. Makes them hit more consistantly, lasts 5 minutes. Big deal. You say they're overpowered, I say they're not. You argue that they can't be killed easily (which is supposed to happen with masters of protection), you can't argue that this doesn't happen until higher levels because it doesn't. Even Lyandor at a high level was being resisted and actually lost to my druid in a duel (but i had my theif help a little, sorry dude. :P ). But if you wanna drop it, so be it. Oh, and I realize you don't bring anything really relevant to the table either, only "duels" (that no one has real proof of) and expect us all to believe you. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/11/03 at 16:39:51 We are listening, your just so stupid you fail to see that what were saying is true. Druids are overpowered. Having high armour should NOT be there main 'perk' in game, that should belong to mages. All it looks to me like your doing is trying to make the class you play stay overpowered, instead of making the game fair. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by newb on 04/11/03 at 18:42:43 I don't know about you guys, but in every DND type game I have ever played, mages don't have a spell that increases their armor. They have spells to enchant weapons, make inanimate objects move, make things invisible, make themselves move at extremely fast speeds and a huge amount of elemental based spells. Druids on the other hand are quite different. The druids on Nightmist are actually very accurate as to what druids are supposed to be and for that matter they are the best represented class next to thieves. This game is based on role-playing, not pk'ing. If its such a big deal to you that you can't beat a druid then either run or don't go looking for fights. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/11/03 at 19:20:50 They don't get armour increasing spells as such, instead they get other spells. Such as mirror image, protection from normal weapons, protection from magic weapons, Minor globe of invulrability, Globe of Invunrability, Prismatic Sphere etc. While these don't increase armour, they have pretty much the same effect (Most were taken from a D & D guide, some from games such as Baldur's Gate) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/11/03 at 20:16:29 Ok, like I said I no longer own Gaian and this is pretty much the only file I have. Gaian was 18 18 20 17 18 15 , level 28 and wearing SGs and 2CRs. Magik is level 29, 19 X 19 19 17 10 with just SGs. Now I know Magik is exactly the hottest fighter around and I had +6 armour on her from the CRs, but neither is Gaian and I repeated this countless times on other crits. And I know what you will say that because she has 17 wisdom… but its not, the 1-2 points less really didn’t make a ground-breaking difference from my experience with fighting other crits. And know that I’m not saying druids should be totally stripped, but I do think they need adjusting in relation to mages; I just get annoyed at how you cannot appreciate their power. And with that I really will give up, win or loose… Magik is here with you. Magik started a 5 second countdown. Countdown: 5 Countdown: 4 Countdown: 3 Countdown: 2 Countdown: 1 Countdown: GO! Magik attacked you with his Halberd for 20 points of damage. Magik attacked you with his Halberd but your armor blocked the blow. Magik tried to attack you with his Halberd but missed. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 44 points of damage. Magik attacked you with his Halberd but your armor blocked the blow. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 44 points of damage. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 42 points of damage. Magik attacked you with his Halberd but your armor blocked the blow. You attempted to cast a spell, but it fizzled out. You are too exhausted at the moment. Magik attacked you with his Halberd for 14 points of damage. You are too exhausted at the moment. You are too exhausted at the moment. Gaian (207/241) (156/235) Magik (Leader) (168/298) Magik tried to attack you with his Halberd but missed. Gaian: bummer Magik attacked you with his Halberd but you were partially protected by your armor for 12 points of damage. Magik attacked you with his Halberd for 16 points of damage. Gaian: :-P Magik resisted your Stormwrath. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 22 points of damage. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 45 points of damage. Gaian (157/241) (127/235) Magik (Leader) (102/298) Magik attacked you with his Halberd but your armor blocked the blow. Magik attacked you with his Halberd for 26 points of damage. Gaian (131/241) (127/235) Magik (Leader) (102/298) Magik attacked you with his Halberd but your armor blocked the blow. Magik attacked you with his Halberd but you were mostly shielded by your armor for 5 points of damage. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 42 points of damage. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 45 points of damage. You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on Magik for 45 points of damage. You got 100 gold pieces. Magik dropped a Leather Gloves. Magik fell to the floor, his injuries getting the better of him. You are too exhausted at the moment. You are too exhausted at the moment. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/11/03 at 20:58:34 We are listening, your just so stupid you fail to see that what were saying is true. :D :D :D "You're wrong, I'm right!" "No, I'm right!" What you're saying is as true as what I'm saying. None of us are God, no one knows what's actually true. And namecalling is for children *hint hint* Druids are overpowered. Having high armour should NOT be there main 'perk' in game, that should belong to mages. What....... do......... mages........... protect. Every class has received it's perk so far, except mages. And it's very sad, they're a good class, just hard to train for others. A mage's main perk should be REALLY hard hitting spells, at least 90-100 damage at lvl 27+. If a cleric can heal for in the 100's, why can't a mage hit for the same amount? Black magic vs. white magic. Also, they should receive some sort of poison spell of sorts, one that adds poison to weapons or a Gaea's Blessing type spell. Or even; A spell that takes away their bouses (Proteus cast Dispel. You are no longer under Gaea's Blessing/Champion's strengh/The effects of cleanse) Illusion (You cast Illusion on yourself, altering your apperance. Samus tried to assassinate you, but failed and caused 0 points of damage. Your apperance returns to normal.) Basically, the mage makes a decoy of himself while the real him is invis. Once the decoy is killed, the real mage is vulnerable. The decoy should die after an equvilant of 80 points of damage, which any crit over 15 could do. Lasts until killed. Deception (you cast deception, creating a decoy of yourself) Basically Illusion, but there's two+ of the same person's picture on the screen. The real mage can be hit, but the duplicates/decoys are killed after 80 points equiv. The mage can also attack, and the dupes stay on screen rather than dissapate as they would in illusion. lasts 60/120 seconds Mirror (you cast mirror on yourself, causing your wounds to return to their master. Kalypso rapidly fired at you for 90 points of damage. Kalypso fell to the floor, her injuries getting the better of her) lasts 60/120 seconds Make flame do more damage in the swamps, since it's a flame. A give them flame at lvl 10, blast at 15, beam at 20, and devesate at 25/7. Mages are mean to be users of magic that dont' rely on a deity, but more like telekentics/psykic abilites, distorting the path of reality to suit them. Which is why Intel is so important to them. Mages are to magic as Druids are to nature. looks to me like your doing is trying to make the class you play stay overpowered, instead of making the game fair. No, I'm trying to show you that things are fine were they are, my theif is my main char. You I won't speak his name, few have heard of him. And he's higher lvled than my druid, btw. Dragging others down doesn't help anyone. And you're saying Mage's main perk should be armor, what should a Druid's main perk be? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/11/03 at 22:40:09 on 04/11/03 at 05:33:38, Sauruman wrote:
Generally yes... but a druid w/hawk talon (lvl27) leeches the heck out of the mana. (Although I haven't seen too many druids w/hawk talon...) on 04/11/03 at 09:40:39, Rampage wrote:
Maybe armour could be dropped a bit but the morph shouldn't be degraded because then it would become useless and stormwrath would only be used. And I was just wondering...what exactly is everyone going by that says that a mage is a protector? I'm not saying they shouldn't have armor spells, but logically druids are the protectors and mages have the powerful offensive spells. Are druids overpowered? Yes and no. Druids are overpowered at low levels, but at higher ones it's really an opinion. And Pile ur only bashing druids now because you don't have one anymore. :P /hug it's ok I understand ^.^ I've noticed that most people tend to defend the classes they have crits in. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Rampage on 04/12/03 at 08:23:46 Mirror is stupidly over powered, however much damage they do to you it does back to them? Thats crazy... Druids are overpowered, I still can't believe you don't see it, level 10s with stormwrath? level 25s with 140 armour? A morph that half heals them, and then lets them hit for hally damage never missing? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by drizzt_dourden on 04/12/03 at 13:34:08 on 04/11/03 at 16:39:51, Rampage wrote:
1/3 not sure of, as i dont own a druid atm. 1/3 right, druids should not have the highest armour. 1/3 wrong, neither should mages. id have to say fighters should have the highest armour.....mages deserve just as much of an attack as the fighter as the other abilities of a mage more than balance it out.....as for druids, id say with morph should have the highest dex, a decent(but somewhat low) attack, and a healing equal to that of a paladin. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/12/03 at 18:43:34 Although your ideas seem somewhat decent, I believe that mages should have an attack more powerful than a fighter because magic beats a blade any day, plus it takes up mana so mages have to have crystals in their inventory while fighters just pots. Also have to consider the amount of time it takes to train different classes. As for druids having the same heal as a pally? That may cause things to be farther unbalanced. The heal should be improved a bit though, for at the moment it is a bit useless. Most the damage monsters do it more than the amount healed for. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/12/03 at 23:16:38 Mirror is stupidly over powered, however much damage they do to you it does back to them? Thats crazy... You seem to be against anything that favors the magical class. Maybe not all, but like an armor that instead of blocking a hit, it reflects the amount that was absorbed. Druids are overpowered, I still can't believe you don't see it, level 10s with stormwrath? True, it should trade places with Jolt. Level 25s with 140 armour? And? How about hitting one rounding a lvl 27(fighters, rangers, theives) at the same level? Halberd, Enchanted Bow or Dagger of Winds in the hands of the wrong person could easily do an unsuspected druid in. I speak from experience. A morph that half heals them, and then lets them hit for hally damage never missing? :D You're acting like others won't have armor. And it's a lvl 25, why not hit high? An expert crit hitting for sub 70's is bad, regardless what class the crit is. Oh, and Morph means no spells for 5 minutes. They're not overpowered, they just have some worth. id have to say fighters should have the highest armour.....mages deserve just as much of an attack as the fighter as the other abilities of a mage more than balance it out.....as for druids, id say with morph should have the highest dex, a decent(but somewhat low) attack, and a healing equal to that of a paladin. Uh, fighters should hella large armor, but remember they haul hally's around, plus inventory. Not much space left for heavy metal armor+sheild. It would cut down their accuratcy of hitting. I do think that fighters should hit the second hardest, only to the berserker, but fighters should be the only ones with 6 stam. Gives people a reason for each class. One thing I must say though, leave the druid's heal where it is. They could heal, but it shouldn't be any higer than, say 23-25. *side note* why does a ranger with 21 dex miss more than a 21 x 18 20 16 x dwarf fighter with a great axe? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/12/03 at 23:26:54 on 04/12/03 at 23:16:38, Sauruman wrote:
Right now the heal is 21max which isn't even enough to keep youself alive from most monsters. (And Sauruman use the quote thingy instead of italicizing. ^.^) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/14/03 at 17:57:18 Druids already said they are overpowered. No one can dispute that. Druid spells need to be ordered effectively per levels. Morph needs to be more broad then one set morph:- 5 morphs. Each varying in the level you obtain them. Each costing varying amount of mana, and lasting for a certain period of time, without being re-casted. All with varying stats. Druids shouldnt have any armor spells. Their casted morph should affect the amount of natural armor the morph gives. i.e. morph 1 gained at level 1, 10 ac. morph 2 gained at level 10, 20 ac. morph 3 gained at level 20, 40ac. etc. etc Druids perk should be the healing half hp with morph. Grasping vines to trap their prey. They also have camouflage and track. These are enough perks. Mages discussion should be located on the specified mage area. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/14/03 at 20:03:50 Now that is a well thought out idea. :D Sounds logical so therefore I agree. ^.^ |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/16/03 at 11:08:57 I suggested a spell ("Thorns") for druids, and the damage inflicted was just 30% (I think) at level 30. A spell that reflects 100% damage is just insane! Even I gotta admit that mages sure need a way to get mana faster (and are not as "powerful" as they should be) , and a few druid spells/abilities make them too powerful AGAINST other players, but there are classes that can beat druids. There are classes that can beat fighters. There are classes that the mages can easily kill. For example, a zerker could kill a druid easily. A mage could kill a fighter. etc... There are classes that are better than others. But no class is invincible (ok, maybe zerkers are a bit hard to beat....). The easiest way to beat a druid is letting him spend all his mana (and surviving until he does). Druids have powerful spells, but low mana and high mana costs. Don't start insulting each other, because that turns this topic into another useless topic, disencouraging other players to post. If you want to insult other people, do it somewhere else (not in any part of the forum). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/16/03 at 16:31:11 Ok to start this happened. However I have got it copyed exactly, but I hope you get the idea. XXXXXX just leeched 109 mana off you. Hmm...Druids certainly get owned by mages<sarcasm>. Also a lvl 30 Zerk beats a Mage almost 80% of the time, even with AoP casted. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Uncensored on 04/16/03 at 17:00:35 IMO Druids would be fine if the spells were ordered better. I must say this is quite pathetic people. You guys complain that druids suck for 2 complete years and then pregnant dog when they're improved. What is wrong with Druids being a #1 class? None of you would have minded if it was Rangers, Mages, or Thieves that became the #1 class. I also must say, it seems you guys are incredibly confused concerning the entire AC issue. MAGE Mages use Elements. Mages aura spells uses the elements around them. Mages aren't the best class at using things around them. Mages are killers, not defenders. DRUID Druids use the things around them. You get great AC by using magic to use the things around you thus creating an invisible barrier. Druids are more of defending types. They protect their forest, so wouldn't they need to have armor since they are attacked before they attack most of the time. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Blast on 04/16/03 at 21:19:40 Ehh... ::) I think u dunno what u're talking bout... Quote:
Elements are everywhere so if mages aura spells uses elements around them then why mages aren't the best class at using things around em ??? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/16/03 at 21:30:27 I agree, yet disagree. Mages should have power over the elements/weather etc. maybe mages shouldnt have an armor spell, but if we are talking realism. A mage would cast an impenetrable field around himself. Then casted 100 fireballs destroying anything that stood in its path. Druids have a spell called Stromwrath, sounds like an element to me. If Druids are more of defending types then remove their hard hitting spells, and leave them with morphs and melee attacks. I have already stated that I think balancing should be done in accordance with difficulty of training, and maintaining costs. It seems only logical and fair. I mean if it costs 5 mil to lvl a mage to 30, in 20 days. Then costs 60k to lvl a fighter to 30 in 6 days. Dont you agree the mage wouldnt have to try hard to beat the fighter? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Uncensored on 04/16/03 at 22:17:29 I completely agree about the stormwrath. Druids are known to have some control over the weather though. I don't think stormwrath should be as powerful as it is. Blast - Mages aren't really known for having incredible defensive spells. Yes elements are all around us, but mages are suppose to use elements to attack people. IMO Deity has the mage class like it's meant to be. On there the best mage spell is lightning storm and it strikes everyone on the square. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/16/03 at 23:01:42 *see Devastate pre-reset* I have already posted this on the forums somewhere. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Sauruman on 04/17/03 at 07:04:32 A spell that reflects 100% damage is just insane! Yeah, I reposted in the mage forums. Also, they could make it like, intel + armor /2 percent. 21 intel + 39 = 50 /2 = 25%. So a smite attack for 480 would reflect 120. Or proportional to the armor. Like, the amount that the armor shileds the mage from is just sent back, rather than absorbed. XXXXXX just leeched 109 mana off you. Hmm...Druids certainly get owned by mages<sarcasm>. Also a lvl 30 Zerk beats a Mage almost 80% A: how many people can afford to go around buying a 175k weapon. B: how many people *other than those who have hella crits/gold/resources to back them up* have a lvl 27+ druid. C: How many lvl 30 berserkers are there? If anything, make it to where berserkers can't hold a cobalt staff of the winds, wouldn't you all consider that overpowered? And unrealistic, a -basically- barbarian holding a staff of magical energy that was blessed by dieties. Druids have a spell called Stromwrath, sounds like an element to me. Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Spirit -and the nightmist sixth and seventh, forest and time :P - Storm doesn't fall into element, although it sounds like it could. Hmm....... air and spirit, maybe? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/17/03 at 14:42:02 Anyone who has a level 27 druid should have the 175k for the weapon. Anyone who trains any class to this level (probably excluding mages) should have made this amount of gold easily, consider the massive population of fighters… 60 odd k for the armour and 100k+ for the weapon, nothing new. I played a druid pretty much entirely on its own and that was over level 27, I didn’t have a hell of a lot of gold, crits or resources to back it up. Anyways, that weapon is totally affordable and does leach a hell of a lot of mana, most I have seen personally is in the 80s (complements of Vampyre:-p) but then I don’t have a mage and never really fought many with a druid. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/17/03 at 19:45:19 Question: What would you prefer? - Hawk Talon - Weapon with 20 base damage and 0,3 life leech |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/17/03 at 22:02:57 on 04/17/03 at 07:04:32, Sauruman wrote:
Yes stormwrath can be considered an air element. on 04/17/03 at 14:42:02, Pile wrote:
Heh I guess I was and am just one poor little druid then because I had to borow money to buy mine. ^.^ Although I do recall one particular druid who had to wait awhile to save and get his as well.../point pile. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/17/03 at 23:18:35 Regarding this... on 04/16/03 at 16:31:11, Eternyte wrote:
I have actually gotten owned by mages several times. Mages resist stormwrath too much and with aop morph is also useless. It only takes a mage 1 or 2 rounds to kill a druid. And about the mana leech...A druid can only leech so much mana before they are full and can no longer leech anymore. Mages have mp somewhere in the upper 300's while druids only 200's. In a duel, after casting gaea's blessing, stoneform, and morphing, that leaves the druid with a deficit of 140mp. So if a druid leeches the mage of 140mp, that still leaves them with about 200+mp to whoop the druids butt. I didn't get to save the text but... A lvl28 druid vs lvl29 mage w/o aop or any nifty equip, the damage done by both sides was bisically equal. (but of course the mage did have 5stam so it did win) A lvl28 druid vs lvl30 mage w/aop etc., instant ownage x.x The mage did 51 52 53 52 51. The druid did 16 6 19 33 and w/storm 0 36 0 36. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Pile on 04/17/03 at 23:54:57 Heh I did indeed have to save up to buy a hawk talon but my point was that 175k is kinda cheap for a base 22 weapon with mana leach and 175k isn’t much by current Nightmist standards. Vampyre raises a good point though, when you are full on mana you can no longer leach and if you are morphed that’s pretty soon because you wont be casting spells. Anyways, personally I think lower a max stat halfling/elf druid’s armour to around 110 and put there heal up to about 45 at level 30 like it used to be. Currently heal sucks and there is just too much armour, seems a good solution to me, the overall power of a druid isn’t drastically altered but they become more “realistic”. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by newb on 04/18/03 at 01:10:30 Something that has been bothering me. _Halfling_ druids can get 140+ ac, its alot harder for other races to. the majority of druids are elves from what I have seen. Also, you are talking about fully decked out druids, ie 4 crs, sgs and an aoh. A normal druid without spiffy equipment (most of the players don't have these items) doesn't have a whole lot of armor. Make your arguments more reasonable. Without the spiffy eq, they get around 122(halfling, 115 other classes) ac which is way less than a mage with aop (even without the mage having spiffy eq). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/19/03 at 18:20:52 Learn how to use a Druid effectively. If you dont take advantge of their abilities it's your own fault. Either way Druids should not be able to outspell a mage. If they get more armor class, mages should have a spell that does 100 damage or so. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Uncensored on 04/19/03 at 19:16:17 If mages did 100 damage theres no question, they'll 1 round anybody without any trouble, and it's close to impossible to one round a mage with aura. Doesn't that sound slightly unfair? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Mammon on 04/20/03 at 18:19:55 You people don't appear to be listening, he isn't saying mages should get a spell that does 100 damage, as he knows as well as you and I that it would be totally unfair. He is saying a druid can outcast a mage, and in many instances, it can. With armor spells a druid can have more ac than a mage, and they also have higher hp, making them harder to kill by other physical combatants. Then there spells at higher levels are often more powerful than that of a mages, or at least equal to them, tests I have done have shown a solid druid at level 27+ can cast stormwrath with about the same effectiveness as a mages, that coupled with them having more hp, and more ac makes them much better than a mage in many aspects. So, he is suggesting that in the very least for them to give less armor in their armoring spells, so that a mage isn't made pretty much useless in comparison. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by newb on 04/20/03 at 20:16:12 Tests that I have done. These are on monsters, not on players, chairs and tables to be precise. A lvl 30 mage with 20 int was beaming chairs for 70+ while the druid (lvl 29) was storming them for mid 50's. As far as PvP go, the mages I fight are a force to be reckoned with while the druids are more of an annoyance. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by VampyreDarla on 04/20/03 at 22:12:13 Stormwrath doing the same dmg as beam? ??? I want to know where that druid bought his stormwrath because I want mine to do the same amount as beam. :P Newb is right about dmg amounts, storm does much less. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/21/03 at 13:10:01 And since druids don't have much mana (and Stormwrath costs 10), they can't storm that much or that often. Mages have much more mana. And they also got Haste (+1 stamina at level 20)... Druids will only get that extra stamina at level 25. And at level 27 (not sure) mages get 4 stam per 10 secs, while druids get only 3. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Blast on 04/21/03 at 23:26:56 ..... mages are much harder to train! and still u gotta pay like 10k + armor to get better ac then mage while he gotta pay 400k to get the aop |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/22/03 at 11:32:34 As soon as they reach level 20, an experienced player can train a mage and level him much faster than a druid. Trust me I know. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/22/03 at 18:04:33 Who's your high level mage may I ask? Also like was said, I dont think a mage should have a spell that does 100 dmg everytime. However if a Druid can leech 100+ mana per hit it leave a mage with little mana to cast spells. Or use even more mana which is obsurd. I have already stated all the things I feel that could be done. So I need say no more than to clarify things that dont understand, or totally mis-represent. "There are none so blind as those who wish not to see" |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/22/03 at 18:58:09 I don't have a high level mage at the momment, but I had a few expert mages, and trained a few for friends. And I trained tons of druids. I posted tons of times that mana leech should work in a totally different way... Sorta like Vamparic. And agreed with the fact that it leeches too much. "There are none so blind as those who don't pay attention" |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/22/03 at 19:33:17 Get your own quotes :P Also the fact that you have only ever had expert mages seems to me that you cant train them fast at all. If you leveled a mage to 30 by yourself, without buying one then maybe I would respect your opinion. My level 12 Druid....You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on a Brown Bear for 43 points of damage. A level 13 Mage....You extend your hand out, and lightning shoots from your fingertips, electrocuting a Brown Bear for 16 points of damage. And your trying to tell me that mages level a lot faster than Druids. YOUR NUTS!! Perhaps a level 25 mage beams for 50, but a Druid morphed hits for about the same. This is why I think Druids are overpowered. Granted I think some things should be changed with Druids, like morph as I have stated before. HOWEVER ON NO ACCOUNT SHOULD A DRUID OUT SPELL A MAGE!!! |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/22/03 at 21:09:28 Till level 20 mages are a lot harder to train than druids. BUT it takes much longer to reach level 25 from 20 than 20 from 1. And mages can level faster than druids from 20 to 25. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/22/03 at 22:20:14 Level 18 Mage....You mumble something and raise your hand, creating a massive fireball, burning a Brown Bear for 30 points of damage. Still less than my level 12 Druid. Level 25 Druid...You attacked a Brown Bear with a weapon for 58 points of damage, killing it. (unspelled) Level 25 Druid...You raise your arms, and summon a storm to strike on a Brown Bear for 61 points of damage. Level 26 Mage...You summon a beam of pure light, blinding a Brown Bear for 73 points of damage. Although this damage is more considerable, it still costs more mana to use. If you want decent exp you have to go to places like the desert. You need to carry mana, which runs on very rapidly. However a Druid needs little mana, and spell costs are a lot less. This is why I think it should be changed. I think mages leveling the way they do it fine. However lower mana costs are needed, and more spells varying. Druids spells need to be ordered effectively, and they must not out spell a mage at high level's. For instance having more armor class. Like I have already said. If Druids keep their superior armor class. Then remove mages armor spell. Then introduce a party protection spell. A vamparic spell, a mana leech spell, devastate, and slow. As with this reduced armor, mages would need extra. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/23/03 at 10:38:14 Level 21 druid's max mana: 200 Level 21 mage's max mana: 300-320 aprox. In case you haven't noticed, Stormwrath costs 10 mana. Gaea's Blessing costs 30 and Stoneskin costs 10. That's 40 inicial mana spent. After that he can storm 16 times. Monsters seem to have higher resists to Stormwrath than to Beam or Blast. Bears have the lowest resists. Damage to monsters with stormwrath can vary between 30 and 60, depending on the monster. 16 times after those spells, they will have to run back to town or spend a lot of mana. Not less than mages, but they run out of mana much faster. An archmage will probably have 400-440 mana (aprox., just guessing). An archdruid will have 300 mana if he's lucky and has 20 wiz. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/23/03 at 10:39:02 And mages have two ultimate spells. Druids have none at the momment. (Or at least none of the people I know ever heard of one) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/23/03 at 18:48:01 on 04/23/03 at 10:38:14, Norinth wrote:
My level 30 Mage has 365mp. 365 / 30 = 12.166, 12.166 * 21 = 255 approx mp. Aura of Protection costs 40 mp. Haste costs 40 mp. Beam cost 17 mp per hit. 365 - 80 (combined AoP and Haste) = 285. 285 / 17 (Beam mp cost) = 16 also. So your reasoning is totally unfounded!! Why should a Mage cast a spell which costs more mp. Then as a result get less armor class, it's silly. Then Beam costs and extra 7 mp. So 30 Beams = 510mp and 51 Stormwraths = 510mp also. Should a druid be able to attack more times than an arch magic user on the same amount of mana. It's totaly rediculous. An Arch magic user should be able to cast beam about 85 times using 510 mp. Which would total as 6 mp per beam. Perhaps 6mp is too little, then I urge you to consider clerics healing Divine Restoration heals for average of 100 at just an 8 mp costing. What does that imply to you? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/23/03 at 20:32:49 I doubt your mage has 20 wis. Anyway, I was talking about 30 wis druids. Leafstorm and now Norinth both had the same ammount of mana, 200 (at level 21) with 20 wiz. I never said mages don't need more stuff, I said the opposite. I just said druids are not as good as you are trying to make other people believe. Still, a mage, after casting haste on himself, gets +1 stamina. Druids don't get that. And if a druid morphs, they can't cast Stormwrath. Druids camo costs more than invisibility (25) but lasts for longer, even though it cannot be cast on other people (that's why i said they should cost the same, not in this topic, but I did). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/23/03 at 20:45:55 on 04/23/03 at 10:39:02, Norinth wrote:
You've just named a few, Camouflage, Stormwrath, Morph, Track. Heal also, and the healing a druid does when morph is casted. Not to mention the armor spells that exceed the armor a mage gets. Also Druids get grasping vines, isnt this also a major spell? I think so!! Druids also have a magical wepon, that leeches mana. I wish you'd make up your mind with what your saying, your changing what you mean with every post. It makes you look like you have even less idea than you do. You want Druids to have an extra stamina, and be able to cast spells when morphed, and cast camouflage on other people? (if I misunderstand, I apoligise) If thats what you mean your insane. AoP and Haste both wear off pretty rapidly as does invisibility. For a master of magic a mage certainly doesnt have many proficiencies to distinguish it from other classes. I have said that I would like to see things about Druids change, but I like that fact they are good now. I am merely stating that on no account should a Druid out spell a Mage in any way, shape or form. No one cant dispute that. Also the fact that they are more expensive to train, run and maintain just adds to the point I am trying to stress to fellow players. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Disjunction on 04/23/03 at 20:52:29 Norinth if your basing your knowledge about druids on two level 21s than ofcourse they are not gonna be as good as how Eternyte is describing them him having owned a level 28 and gotten information from other players with higher level druids after the druid update. At the mean time I own two level 20 druids ofcourse they're not gonna go out and own anything in their path they are adepts, however they are leveling at a way faster rate with less mana consumption when my mage was at that level hitting. I train them on sand spiders and they do an easy 40-50 damage on sand spiders without hardly fizzling for a level 19-20 this is great xp and they hardly use any mana. When I have put them up againt other classes of the same level they are not the best but they are not far from being. At this moment I cannot base how good a arch druid is since I have only owned one before they were updated and received these new spells, however from fighting a master druid once he had all the spells casted on they are hardly piece of cake and have a very high dodge rate. What I recommend is to get information of how good a higher level druid is wether you train one up yourself or ask a fellow player that does own one because at lower levels you will hardly see what the class is capable of at higher levels. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/24/03 at 10:04:25 I had expert druids. I wasn't lucky enough to get an archmaster druid (just like most of the people), but I prefer rolling and training them myself. I don't hire people to do it (and I'm not saying that it is wrong, I just don't like that). My experience isn't just about two lvl 21 druids. I didn't say druids should get haste and AoP... All I said is that mages have two ultimate spells. AoP and Devastate. And I honestly don't know how much armor you get with AoP, I haven't had an expert mage that recently (Nor will I go kill the Chamaleon and buy an expert, I prefer training my own crits). But if it's lower than 40, it should definetly be upped (a lot). And even if druids have a few advantages, mages also got some advantages. Do you understand what I was saying now? |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/24/03 at 10:05:05 And yes, I am perfectly aware of what a level 27+ druid is capable of. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/24/03 at 18:00:18 Devastate isnt a widely available spell, therefore cannot be considered. AoP is 2.5*the armor the mage is wearing. So depending on the armor you are wearing, sometimes Mana Shroud would be better. Mages advantage is Haste getting stamina back. Clerics get a better variant on this as they get full stamina. Which can be casted on party. Invisibility able to be casted on others. Druids get same kind of spell, apart from not castable on others which is reasonable. Although it lasts longer than invis. Beam is sort of an advantage, as it hits big on monsters and lower wis'd players. However with fizzling, partial resists, and resisting, also counterspell with mage. Their Beam isnt as efficient. Mage also have very low hp. Cannot get much armor class exlcuding spells. The cost of their armor is more than treble that of other classes. Mages spells since its their main attack you'd think they would cost little mana, however Beam costs 17 mana. In comparison with other classes this is a heck of a lot. Especially when its their only feesable form of leveling. Imagine leveling with attack. 5 damage most of the time wouldnt level too rapidly. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/24/03 at 18:04:18 Let's imagine a mage with a simple staff, silver robes and silver amulet (any lvl 25 mage can get these). This way he has 24+2=26 armor. 26*2.5 isn't much, my druid gets aprox. 110 armor at level 21. AoP should definetly be improved. And Beam costs too much. Reducing it to... 12-15 would be logically right. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/24/03 at 18:11:14 At least your starting to think from a Mages perspective. However I think that reducing Beam from 17 to 12-15 wouldnt be a big enough difference. Since clerics Aid for 7mp for 90hp, and Divine Restoration for 8mp for 100+hp. I think that Beam on average does 50-55 dmg to people with the 18-20 wisdom average. So I would suggest Beam being lowered to about 8mp. This would also make mages able to go off on their own for a longer period of time. Without the massive amounts of mana trips required, and the large of gold needed to buy mana. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/24/03 at 18:24:25 How much does Blast cost? Beam cannot be lower than blast. And 12 seems reasonable enough. |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Eternyte on 04/24/03 at 20:47:17 Sorry I didnt explain myself clearly enough obviously:- Shock - 5mp Flame - 7mp Blast - 10mp Beam - 17mp Thats the current costs. My opinion is that they should be.. Shock - 1mp Flame - 3mp Blast - 5mp Beam - 8mp I think this because at the moment mages are very expensive, and run out of mana very rapidly. (Maybe we could move this onto Mages Discussion if me move off this topic more) |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/24/03 at 21:56:00 Sorry, but that is TOO low. Druids ARE gonna be changed. 12-11 cost for beam is good and still not that bad. 9-8 for blast would be nice too. Shock could be lowered by 1 (like heal) and Flame could be lowered by 1 too. But unfortunately, that's not up to me :). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Blast on 04/25/03 at 18:31:14 yeah would be cool, maybe ability regenerate mana where u get bac mana faster but cant attack (like meditaion or so) then anyone can easly kill u by suprise and if u are in city this has no point cuz u can buy refreshment for 100gp |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Norinth on 04/25/03 at 18:44:03 Mages should get an item (or ability) that adds more mana regeneration... But like reduced spell costs, thats not up to me :). |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Blast on 04/26/03 at 14:32:37 just back to 7th page of this topic, my mage got 20 wis he is lvl 25 and he got 320mp (ON LVL 25, i dont remamber mana rasining last lvls from 21but i doubt they were +0 +0 +0 +0) so he must had like 27x mana on lvl 21 |
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Title: Re: Druids Armor Spells! Post by Lit on 06/19/03 at 06:14:29 The answer isn't to take away from armor spells, druids were updated a few months ago because they were the weakest, most useless class on nightmist. Staff finally fixed druids and now people complain they are overpowered. Take anything away from what druids have now and they'll just suck like before. I agree mages need to be improved, but I like this class the way it is. |
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