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Topic: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! (Read 1929 times) |
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Dwaerkyn
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Paladins???? Stinkers!!!
« on: 04/01/03 at 00:42:06 » |
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Pallies: Fighters that can heal and enhance stats.
Thats it right?
Well since I like to rp, and I like pallies, I always rp my pallies as knights, they seem like it, go /library medium lance, it says something about knights and horses. Unfortunately, as far as I have heard of, there is no such thing as a horse.
And, it seems no such thing as a knight.
Shouldn't pallies get some 'knight' abilities or just be improved?
Lets face it, they suck as they are. They get 2 stamina at level 6, but their third is at level 15? And their fourth at level 22?
And their spells, they only have like 6, heal, cleanse, divine prayer, aid, champions strength, and holy speed.
Most of these suck. Such as cleanse (only it has become more useful lately, good.), heal becomes useless at level 18 with the coming of aid.
Their weapons are stinky. Its oak staff until level 5 then quarterstaff until level TWELVE, then its spear until level 15, then BOH until pike at level 18, then they have to wait until level 23 for JUSTICE BLADE, which is worse then a hally which you get at level 20 for fighter/zerks.
Plus they have 4 stamina until 5 at level 28 or something.
I guess they can use cobalt but it pretty useless considering that they can heal themselves, it saves a little of their measly stamina though.
Do they even get scroll spells?
They don't get horses.
They don't get attack abilities like smite or track or rapid fire.
They stink
Anyone disagree with this?
They are just a little close to being pretty good, but still they are worse then any other class, except maybe cleric but those rock at healing and are impossible to kill unless you are like berserkers who can one-round them.
Pallies need just a small, tiny, little-bitty improvement.
How about 3 new weapons.
Holy Lance:
Base Damage: 15
Vamparic: 0.7 (save a bunch of their measley stamina)
Magical: yes
Monster damage table: Skeleton stuff
Description
This weapon has been carved and enchanted by the remote mages of the ancient east. It is made entirely of cedar and is extremely light. It's length exceeds beyond 10 feet, but its magical properties make it shrink when enemies are far away. There are carved runes, which grow a bright white when looked at. This weapon has been rumoured to be able to suck the life out of one's soul to give spiritual life to the on who wields it.
Class restrictions: Paladins
A little lengthy I know...
Saber of Souls:
Level 28
For Pallies
Base Damage: 28
Magical: No
Vamparic: Umm can you do negatives?
Description: This blade suck life out of one's body, unleashes it in the form of a dark energy which damages anothers soul.
And how about a belt?
Belt of the Martyr:
Armor: -90 ( if negatives can be done )
Dex: -8
str: +90
wis: -8
Char: - 8
Description: This belt takes away all ones defenses, and arms him with a POWERFUL strength enough to kill one in one easy blow.
These would be RARE
and a rare scroll spell
Savior:
Saviour give someone +5 strength and + 5 dexerity and heals them by 10.
Doesn't make them more knightly. But makes them quit stinking, and makes them worthy to be called something else then 'Stinkers'
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| « Last Edit: 05/23/03 at 01:42:47 by Dwaerkyn » |
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Pile
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #1 on: 04/01/03 at 01:58:01 » |
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Have you any idea what 0.7 vamparic would do? And a level 28 weapon with 28 base damage! Your ideas don’t exactly seem balanced and although I haven’t get a massive amount of experience with paladins they aren't as bad as you make out. With aid they now have massive staying power; it seems that people only ever want to be able to round other crits and don’t look at the whole picture. In my initial opinion of just recently owning a high level paladin they could do with some new armour. Even if it was the same base as fireleaf or just a few points higher it would add that edge to them and stop them looking like they borrowed some left over equipment. Give them some chain armour of some sort with a nice name, nothing too special but enough make them look that little bit more individual as a class.
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| « Last Edit: 04/01/03 at 17:53:39 by Bullitt » |
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King o Sausage
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #2 on: 04/01/03 at 02:11:46 » |
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I am stunned at this post....
(And I don't mean I agree with it.)
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Marros
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #3 on: 04/01/03 at 05:00:10 » |
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I agree with it, to an extent. Paladins definatly need better armor, and a real good higher level weapon. Like a dagger of spirits to thieves, or enchanted bow to rangers. The armor isn't quite as important as a new weapon.
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Pile
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #4 on: 04/01/03 at 18:05:56 » |
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If your complaining about the damage it’s not really down to the base of their weapon, 24 is pretty decent and remember enchanted bows have a lower base damage than this. You couldn’t really increase their damage much more though because they will just become fighters with the added bonus of being able to heal for 60s.
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Marros
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #5 on: 04/01/03 at 22:55:28 » |
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I understand this Pile... they shouldn't have a weapon that hits as well as the halberd for fighters. But my level 28 pally only hits for around 30-40 MAX. Is that normal for 24 base?
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Pile
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #6 on: 04/01/03 at 23:11:21 » |
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Well paladins are pretty much set up so that your always going to be using a spell to enhance your normal attack, the mana costs are low and they last a relatively long time, no problems there. I tend to have holy speed cast most the time on my pally but this is obviously only a dex increase and doesn’t affect your max damage; I hit for low 60s max if my memory serves me correctly (lvl 30). That is on monsters of course, and if your pally is level 28 then it should be hitting for higher even with 18 str (unless you are talking about P v. P). Now if you take same race fighter at level 30 its going to be hitting in the high 70s (been a while since I’ve been on an arch fighter but so could be a bit out), not a massive difference and one which I personally think is made up for with the high healing capacity of the paladin.
Now I’m putting forward a pretty strong argument here but I don’t want you to think I’m arrogant and consider myself to be some sort of expert. I’ve only had this paladin for a couple of days and I’m still getting used to it, these are just my first impressions and I’m not trying to say you are wrong.
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Bahashabeem
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #7 on: 04/02/03 at 01:00:16 » |
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well pile i know your a good man and all but what lvl is that pally i tell yo8u to fight any ranger or fighter of that lvl i suppose they would crudly change your perspectives of how usefull the are player on player like you said in field the are great heal and fight both of best worlds hard to take down. but on p vs p you spend more time healing then actually fighting so i believe they need a better grasp with there spells or a better updated armor spell or new weapon well lets see what ya think i value your opinion as i do anyones
* Bahashabeem bows
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Pile
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #8 on: 04/02/03 at 01:23:25 » |
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Yeah might be best if I get to grips with this pally a bit more I suppose ( its level 30 by the way). I fought a clannie yesterday about 10-15 times on various crits in the duelling arena; however, it wasn’t a completely balanced trial since I had SGs and 4CRs on while the opponent only used SGs I believe. Anyways without healing I died most fights but I was still able to lower the opponents hp to within mort (except on a dwarf fighter). When healing I found I was only needing to cast aid about 3 times every 2 rounds which left 3 stamina on which I would probably hit for a combined average of 40-50. Now from all this it became clear that paladins don’t really have much offensive power but can just heal away forever, mounting a slow counterattack.
So to me they things seem relatively balanced in terms of the overall picture, but I do understand where a lot of you are coming from because in the field this can be somewhat limited. For example a paladin will never round anything of the same level and by using the defensive tactics it going to take a hell of a long time to kill a similar level crit. This causes problems in itself since time is against you if you want the fight to remain one on one. Without taking some of their healing ability away I just don’t see how it could be balanced to make them more offensive, but I’m going to go away fight some more lol, give it a week and I might totally disagree with myself and think paladins aren’t so hot.
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Cupcake
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #9 on: 04/02/03 at 10:06:27 » |
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Palidans are one of the best, if not the best class fro pvp. Its extremely hard to beat a palidan one on one...anyone who has dueled a pali will tell you so.
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Lyandor
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #10 on: 04/02/03 at 16:06:11 » |
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Pallys arent the best in pvp, in a one on one duel there good, but when you have a fight with more than 2 people in, they get crap, and this happens a lot of the time.
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Nocturnal
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #11 on: 04/03/03 at 00:15:49 » |
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on 04/01/03 at 00:42:06, Dwaerkyn wrote:
Just get 2 coconut halves and clap them together repeatedly while moving around Nightmist.
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Daffy, Custard, Firestorm, Abundance and Nocturnal
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Malfunction
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #12 on: 04/04/03 at 14:20:35 » |
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on 04/01/03 at 22:55:28, Sanctuared wrote:| I understand this Pile... they shouldn't have a weapon that hits as well as the halberd for fighters. But my level 28 pally only hits for around 30-40 MAX. Is that normal for 24 base? |
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really ? thats how much i hit with my lvl 16 paladin with a BoH o.o
you did say Max didn't you ? :S:S
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Defiant
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #13 on: 04/04/03 at 23:13:12 » |
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Paladins are fine.
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Mammon
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #14 on: 04/04/03 at 23:35:18 » |
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Paladins by no means ‘stink‘ they are all right, not the best, not the worst. The only quarrel I have with them is the fact that with holy speed they don’t hit nearly as much, nor dodge nearly as much as I feel they should. Although that problem is understandable considering balancing issues, which are still being handled.
The weapons and items you suggested need much more thought obviously, .7 vampric and 28 base damage is s little over the top. Maybe a slightly more powerful weapon that is a little easier to get than Blade of Time may be in order, but not necessary.
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Defiant
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #15 on: 04/05/03 at 00:08:25 » |
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Paladins need nothing.
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Zerlix
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #16 on: 04/05/03 at 05:31:17 » |
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/t defiant wrongo blowzo paladins could have lots of improving done to them but they only need a little
they should have a spell that increases their armor by 30 for an amount of time based on level and costs 20 mana to perform
and another one where they can cast it on another person but it only ups armor by 20 and costs 25 mana and lasts depending on the paladin's lvl
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Dwaerkyn
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #17 on: 04/05/03 at 19:17:10 » |
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Paladins are NOT fine, they may be better then any other classes one on one.
What are paladins supposed to be, clerics with less spells and more fighting, but unfortunately they get less healing and are not good at fighting at all. Clerics are better at EVERYTHING but fighting, but a cleric can heal for 100 (divine restoration) I admit that I was a little angry at my paladin being stinky and probably overexaggerated some of my suggestions.
My theory.
There are REALLY 4 classes, Mage, Fighter, Cleric, Theif
Mage + Cleric = Druid
Cleric + Fighter = Paladin
Theif + Fighter = Berserker, Ranger
Thats pretty close to what they are eh?
Now lets loook at the cleric + fighter
Now the cleric addition is fine, Paladins have a good numbers of spells, but they stink ar fighting.
I've had a level 24 paladin, so I admit I don't really know what an archie paladin is like. But I've beat level 28 paladins with my level twenty five theif. It was done slyly I'll admit it. I attacked with my magma knife thrice, so the pally didn't think It would need to heal so much just yet. He attacked me, then next round I do a big stamina assassinate *grins evilly*
Is that stinky or what?
I was down to 30 hp at the end.
I guarentee you, do everything my post said and pallies will defeat everyone.
How about just give pallies their third and fourth and fifth stamina sooner, and at level 28 give them a Lance of Justice, with 26 base damage and a tiny mana leech.
How does that sound?
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Pile
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #18 on: 04/05/03 at 19:46:42 » |
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Paladins are not fine, but they may be better than any other class one on one! Can you not see what you are saying?
I think paladin’s fight pretty good and as for the fight with the thief it is the foolishness of the other person to blame not paladins being lame; whenever you fight a thief you always keep your hp above their max assassinate, anyone who has any sense knows this.
You people don’t consider all the factors at work and what is the point of doing what you say in your post so that they can beat everyone? The aim would surely be for balance and not just to make your crit better.
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Blast
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Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t
« Reply #19 on: 04/05/03 at 20:14:51 » |
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Pile i think u should make a pally and play it all week long, without alts, then u should understand what he means.
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