49 replies to this topic

[Dangerous]

Yep just want to say thanks JLH on behalf of the 1-Alt server for this much needed update.

[Apocalypto]

Thanks for your time jlh!

[PureMourning]

Your time is well appreciated!

[Trendkill]

Yes sir!

[Catalyst]

Your saying thank you for changes that should have been made years ago? I quit.

1) While covert - If you have equipment that increases constitution, it no longer has as much affect against preventing stamina loss while moving

I completely agree with.

2) You can now only attack other players within 8 levels of your level instead of the previous 10

I don't mind this.

3) Paladin damage base (before weapon base damage is added) increased by 10%

Tis cool.

4) Stamina has been modified as follows

Berserker: 1 4 9 16 23 29 33 36 40 (9 Stamina max)
Cleric: 1 9 17 27 31 36 40 (7 Stamina max)
Druid: 1 8 17 26 32 36 40 (7 Stamina max)
Fighter: 1 4 10 15 22 26 30 35 37 40 (10 Stamina max)
Mage: 1 10 18 24 28 32 37 40 (8 Stamina max)
Pacifist: 1 8 14 24 29 34 38 (7 Stamina max - unchanged)
Paladin: 1 6 15 22 29 32 36 40 (8 Stamina max - unchanged)
Ranger: 1 5 13 22 30 33 36 40 (8 Stamina max)
Thief: 1 8 17 24 29 33 36 40 (8 Stamina max)

I agree with Fighter, Pally, and Mage, But really why change druid to 5 stam after 30 it just doesnt make sense, as well as cleric?

5) New equipment stat (14) that if set to X, will only allow X of these items to be equiped

6) Half-Orcs have had 1 added to their base dexterity stat (max stat increased from 16 to 17) - existing characters have been updated (including those on the restorer)
HAHAHA REALLY?

7) Passive ability added to fighters called "Critial strike" for level 25+ - has a small chance of occuring which ignores the target player's armor
FINALLY

8) New grid stat (26) for xp loss mulitplier, can be set from 0 to 5 and will multiply the xp loss by this number (0 has no change, ie the same as 1. the default xp loss remains at 0.5% but you can make it 2.5% by setting this stat to 5 or 0.1% by setting it to 0.2 etc)

9) New grid stat (27) for stamina required to leave the square. You can only leave the square if you have this much stamina available (if your max is below this, then you need max to move). Ignored by Jaguar potion
Why? Just to make a game where you have to grind for everything that much harder?

10) New grid stat (28) for stamina required to leave the square message (otherwise the usual "you are too exhausted at the moment" message appears)

11) New monster stat (58) for custom display colour in the top left

12) Visible thieves do slightly less damage on average (the max is still the same) when assassinating
Finally.

The old stam for clerics and druids were fine.. Fighters, Mages, and Pallies needed a buff.. while thiefs and zerks could have used a slight nerf..

I don't understand these changes coming out NOW when the game has been out for four years.. Instead of one major change make a few minor over time and see what works and what doesn't.. it doesn't require that much time put in.

I do want to say thanks for you putting in the time though.. but I still quit.

Edited by Catalyst, 01 August 2011 - 10:01 PM.

[Sausage]

And the rest of us will fully indulge in the new found change.

Thanks staffers.

Edit: Can the "help maxstats" please be altered to reflect the change in half-orcs dexterity?

Edited by Sausage, 01 August 2011 - 10:37 PM.

[Tietsu]

Not sure I agree with Druid/Cleric like said above. But I like the way most of it looks.

[brewcrew]

i don't necessarily agree with druid/ cleric....why train a druid when u have 4 stam until 32....then u don't get 6th for a long time, and with the stam implements druids have become useless.....zerks on the other hand...9 stamina...really? wow, they are going to leave everyone behind, clerics on the other hand are a b**** to train, not many places to go, and now they have 5 stamina until 36? ouch.... other than that pallies/fighters definitely needed a boost and so did mages but you have to tier other classes with them. It is going to be thieves all over again.

Edited by brewcrew, 01 August 2011 - 11:13 PM.

[Freek]

Hopefully there are no bugs!

1) While covert - If you have equipment that increases constitution, it no longer has as much affect against preventing stamina loss while moving
Good Change

2) You can now only attack other players within 8 levels of your level instead of the previous 10
Good Change

3) Paladin damage base (before weapon base damage is added) increased by 10%
Good Change
4) Stamina has been modified as follows

Berserker: 1 4 9 16 23 29 33 36 40 (9 Stamina max)
Good Change
Cleric: 1 9 17 27 31 36 40 (7 Stamina max)
Horrible change.. Are you serious? Now clerics have 4 stam all the way to level 31?? Not to mention that they have a worse time leveling early game now. They are a support class, why would you nerf there stamina and not give them an outrageous buff somewhere else.
Druid: 1 8 17 26 32 36 40 (7 Stamina max)
Really? Now not only do they have trash stamina pre 30 (might as well be a mage). Do you not realise that they wont have 4 stam regen till 36? You know how much of a pain this will be to level? And you didnt buff them in any way.. Thats rediculous.
Fighter: 1 4 10 15 22 26 30 35 37 40 (10 Stamina max)
I like this change, HOWEVER... Your going to give fighters a chance to ignore armor AND give them more stamina?? I hope yall are testing this before you actually go through with it.
Mage: 1 10 18 24 28 32 37 40 (8 Stamina max)
Good change
Pacifist: 1 8 14 24 29 34 38 (7 Stamina max - unchanged)
Doesn't matter
Paladin: 1 6 15 22 29 32 36 40 (8 Stamina max - unchanged)
Doesn't matter
Ranger: 1 5 13 22 30 33 36 40 (8 Stamina max)
Again.. Its like ya'll didnt even think about anything pre 36. Do you not realise now rangers will be 3 stam regen training till 33? Do ya'll even understand how important 4stam regen training is after 30? You are making the climb to 40 more difficult not giving it more incentive to train to.
Thief: 1 8 17 24 29 33 36 40 (8 Stamina max)
As much as I hate thieves, 3 stam regen training till 33 after nerfing them in damage is beyond crazy. Especially since all the other nerfs..

5) New equipment stat (14) that if set to X, will only allow X of these items to be equiped
Cool

6) Half-Orcs have had 1 added to their base dexterity stat (max stat increased from 16 to 17) - existing characters have been updated (including those on the restorer)
Cool

7) Passive ability added to fighters called "Critial strike" for level 25+ - has a small chance of occuring which ignores the target player's armor
Cool

8) New grid stat (26) for xp loss mulitplier, can be set from 0 to 5 and will multiply the xp loss by this number (0 has no change, ie the same as 1. the default xp loss remains at 0.5% but you can make it 2.5% by setting this stat to 5 or 0.1% by setting it to 0.2 etc)
Only good if you set all squares to 0

9) New grid stat (27) for stamina required to leave the square. You can only leave the square if you have this much stamina available (if your max is below this, then you need max to move). Ignored by Jaguar potion
Better only be in new areas. If you get rid of hit and running then this is retarded

10) New grid stat (28) for stamina required to leave the square message (otherwise the usual "you are too exhausted at the moment" message appears)
^^

11) New monster stat (58) for custom display colour in the top left
Cool

12) Visible thieves do slightly less damage on average (the max is still the same) when assassinating
Ok?

Ok, I'm glad we are getting updates and i'm glad yall are trying to do something with this game but I disagree with the stamina changes almost completely.. Its like yall didn't even think about level 1-30. Getting 6 stam on classes quickly is what keeps the exp per level almost sort of balanced.. Do you know how hard its going to be to train a druid to 36 with 3 stam regen?? Are you serious.. And don't even get me started on why they still have 7 stam max. Same thing goes for clerics... I mean really??

I like most the NON stamina changes but I disagree with almost 100% of the changed stamina gains. I truly believe NOTHING should of been changed pre 35. And only been looked at 36+.

Edited by Freek, 01 August 2011 - 11:30 PM.

[brewcrew]

agree completely with jordan might want to make your own thread about it so more people see that. Also if stam was changed for PVP why did the 2 classes that will never be able to round anyone get nerfed? The only reason to pvp with a druid was because of armor, still you are going to sit there forever trying to kill that person so really druids are only good for 1v1 situations. Now a fighter will completely wipe them, 10 stamina with ability to go through armor on possibly every hit? Fighters have massive amounts of HP when druids had low hp but high armor, it basically makes their armor buffs null. Not to mention with the high HP of zerkers, druids were the obvious choice against them. Even before update druids only had 7 stamina, end game they would never come close to pking a zerk even if all stam hit and u hit 100s, 9 stamina for zerks makes them OP on druids, more of a chance to click them. Prophet lvl 30 with 23 wiz cuz of wiz mods has 4 stam and dueled Dangerous. Highest SW round on him was 43, and with his Critical strike, he constantly got me down to under 100 hp in 1 round, Fully spelled i might add.

In summation, Druids: now useless, Clerics: even more useless and have less incentive to train than even druids.

If you were trying to give people incentives to train, You definitely failed in regards to rangers/clerics/druids. With the stamina changes, you have spaced out stamina way too far, the same way mages were super hard to train in the early stages. I would be ok with druids keeping 7 stamina, but with the changes to stamina you have them spaced too far apart. Clerics definitely need a revamp from what it is now, you have taken one of the hardest classes to train (besides mage) and made it even harder, clerics do not get alot of XP for clericing bossing which most of their time is spent doing. Not only that but the incentive to train a cleric was to be able to cleric more and more bosses with less off healers, this is now trashed. I forsee noone but the already lvl 35 clerics lvling now because you have made it so improbable as far as stamina goes.

Edited by brewcrew, 01 August 2011 - 11:57 PM.

[Omnipotence]

Just to clarify, is there a way to determine grid stats without testing every square? I mean it seems like some squares could have "must have 0 stam to move" where others could have "must have 3 stam to move" and other "must have 5 stam to move"...I can see this benefiting those in the "inner circle" which just bothers me.

Training a cleric from 17 to 27 with 2 stam regains, and druid from 17 to 26 with 2 stam regains????!!! this is ridiculous. Move these numbers back to 24 and the whole setup would work.

[Stig]

The stamina drain feature won't be used to prevent hitting and running in common low-level areas; it will mostly be used in new areas and even then will be rarely used.

I'll discuss the Cleric and Druid stamina levels with Abstract and the other staff.

[Omnipotence]

Alright that makes more sense, I always thought some of the higher POD areas should be this way because its not right to get to go out and get 100 POD on your lonesome hitting and running.

Is it the entire party has to have full stam or just the one character leading, could get weird in a party and people are left behind?

[brewcrew]

i would also like to add that Druids were never in any danger of rounding ANY other class PVP post 30. In my honest opinion i said earlier i wouldnt QQ if druids stam stayed at 7 , but they should be the same as mages.

[Omnipotence]

@Freek from what I understand the XP loss multiplier at 0 means you never lose XP when you die, each 1 point = %0.5 xp loss

0 = 0% loss (arenas)
1 = 0.5% loss (default in most areas)

(new features for specialty areas)
2 = 1% loss
3 = 1.5% loss
4 = 2% loss
5 = 2.5% loss

[Omnipotence]

@brewcrew druids are the most versatile class ingame, morph/camo/track/nourish/armor spells/heal, they are significantly easier to train than a mage(not a mana hog), and to be honest 4 stam v 5 stam isn't anything different when your getting the same regains. This basically takes druids out of the competitive pvp realm, but as a druid player it won't affect what I do too awful much.

Agreed that with the lower regains at higher levels it will benefit players who are already 35-37+

[Autek]

How about reducing the level 36+ gold requirements? It was ridiculous to begin with, and now you increase the time required to train there by roughly 25% or so on average, and then want people to keep paying that?

Also, just when we were getting together to go get some Antlers everything everyone's been buying/training for the trip now becomes essentially useless (druids with 3 stam regen). Looks like they're back to the unlikely to ever be obtained list.

I like the fighter changes and paladin changes, though I'd have increase paladin hit rate as well.


While most things that were changed make me scratch my head and wonder WTF they were thinking, others I'm glad to see and make sense. Glad to see some time was devoted to making changes to the server, thank you very much JLH!

[Stig]

How about reducing the level 36+ gold requirements? It was ridiculous to begin with, and now you increase the time required to train there by roughly 25% or so on average, and then want people to keep paying that?

Also, just when we were getting together to go get some Antlers everything everyone's been buying/training for the trip now becomes essentially useless (druids with 3 stam regen). Looks like they're back to the unlikely to ever be obtained list.

I like the fighter changes and paladin changes, though I'd have increase paladin hit rate as well.


While most things that were changed make me scratch my head and wonder WTF they were thinking, others I'm glad to see and make sense. Glad to see some time was devoted to making changes to the server, thank you very much JLH!

I did overlook the issue with Gh'ul'arg and have just brought it up with the staff, although most of them are in bed at the moment or otherwise not online. The reason why Paladins didn't get a hit rate increase is because of Divine Prayer and Holy Speed and their general prowess at self-defence.

I'll see what can be done about some of the stamina levels. The gold requirements for levelling I'm not sure about yet.

[Catalyst]

I say that the old stam should be implemented, while adjusting the fighter, mage, and pally to make them somewhat better. A fighter with 7 stam and this critical strike is now OP imo. A small chance for this ability to happen would be nice but I have seen it proc 4 times in one round! Which almost rounded two level 31 zerks.. You have practically made leveling a cleric WAY worse than leveling a mage! Remove these changes and let us just keep on playing the same Nightmist 1 alt like we have the past few years..

These changes were made without thinking about pre 30 and without thinking about pros and CONs.. which I see more cons than pros.. This should have been posted as possible changes to nightmist instead of implementing them right away..

[Apocalypto]

Have to agree these were hasty changes... but we asked for a lot of it.. I don't agree with a lot of the above mentioned... but my main complaints would be that zerkers are too much and 10 stam and critical hit is too much..,

[Jumpsteady]

JUST WONDERING WHY DRUIDS WOULD GET NERFED... SOrry for the caps... 4 stam till lvl 32... You that worried about how more powerful druids are over zerks? The fighter update was a plus... Horcs are a plus too... Druids are a hnr class for training and then on top fo that some squares your gonna need a certain amount of stam to leave it? WOuldve been better of deleting the class all together and giving everyone who had one over 30 a fighter lvl 30 of their choosing of race and basic eq..

I just dont think its fair with the shrinking player base that we had no say... I mean dont you think maybe besides staff the player base should have some say in what goes into their game... I mean staff is not playerbase wether they play or not...

They shouldve been some kind of voting process or maybe even a group of players who gather with staff and vote... It cuts down on the complaining and also will take some of the heat off of staff...

Just my thoughts...

[ice_cold]

Fighter: 1 4 10 15 22 26 30 35 37 40 (10 Stamina max)
I like this change, HOWEVER... Your going to give fighters a chance to ignore armor AND give them more stamina?? I hope yall are testing this before you actually go through with it.

Berserkers stamina was reduced by 1 and fighters stamina remained unchanged

[Freek]

POST UPDATE vs PRE UPDATE

1 4 9 16 23 29 33 36 40 vs 1, 4, 9, 14, 21, 27, 31, 35, 40 ZERKS

1 4 10 15 22 26 30 35 37 40 vs 1, 4, 10, 15, 22, 28, 32, 36, 40 FIGHTERS


You trolling? Zerks HAD 9 and still HAVE 9. Fighters HAD 9 and now HAVE 10

Edited by Freek, 02 August 2011 - 04:10 AM.

[brewcrew]

berserkers overall stam was not reduced, just when they get 8th.

[ice_cold]

POST UPDATE vs PRE UPDATE

1 4 9 16 23 29 33 36 40 vs 1, 4, 9, 14, 21, 27, 31, 35, 40 ZERKS

1 4 10 15 22 26 30 35 37 40 vs 1, 4, 10, 15, 22, 28, 32, 36, 40 FIGHTERS


You trolling? Zerks HAD 9 and still HAVE 9. Fighters HAD 9 and now HAVE 10

Statement Retracted then.

[Chronic]

Actually fighters got +1 stamina.

I vote for staff helping us help them! Start posts and let us vote.. us the playerbase.. or we gonna turn into another USA?
Theifs are FKED and MAGES ARE OP

do i quit or spend a yr on a mage?

idkkk.. time will tell, enjoy.

[Sarah]

I was going to make a nice post with all the things I disagree with.. but I'm literally too bummed.

What I don't understand is that I was under the impression that everyone (staff included) agreed that level 30 and under was completely balanced and has been for years. Curious why someone thought the nerfs should come at this time. The exp to level (especially druids, clerics, rangers, and even thieves) has suddenly become way too daunting.

The update is appreciated, but it is sad that these negative changes come at a time when the player base was just picking up. I am afraid that we will see a huge drop in server activity.

[brewcrew]

Yes, it is hard for me to imagine someone actually thinking this was a viable option. To me it is so broken just by looking at it, how could someone honestly believe these changes for the better. Again I am very thankful people are still open to try and breathe life into this game, but how is this a logical answer to the games unbalanced problems? Who even thought of the new stam update? To me whoever did needs to lay off the cough medicine, its making you trip balls. With the attempt to fix some of the games problems, you have just stitched the wound while removing the heart. Why would i spend 3 years to level a druid or cleric now, when it has become even more of a challenge? I also forsee the player base crashing drastically, the sad thing is it is the day after Kraken was finally killed on 1a.

[Sausage]

I understand people have issues with the update.

But, there seems to be a lot of venting. Could we keep this thread a little more civil in hopes of having a constructive end result?

[Trendkill]

My thoughts...(Druid user)

First....why the hell do mages get 8 stamina and not druids? The stamina change for druids is crazy....a lvl 30 druid with 4 stamina? What the hell do you do with a 4 stamina arch druid? Hit bears in large forest?

In a duel earlier to test out a fighter against a druid: Dangerous lvl 32 fighter vs. Justice lvl 36 druid. Both had cobalts and Justice got pwn'd in the face hole. Fully spelled with 180ac+

Keep the ability for the fighter but tone it down a tad...way OP.

Now instead of leveling Justice to 37 for the 7th stamina, I have to train like crazy to 40 for that 7th stamina. Boy that makes me want to train...after all I need to make a butt ton of gold to hit 40 for my 7th stamina. /eyes

It just costs so much gold to level from 35-40 that this change in stamina makes it that much harder.
Keep the lvl 1-30 stamina as it was. 7th stamina for druids at 37 and 8 stamina at 40! As it is now, making the struggle to 40 for the seventh stamina and the same old 4 stamina regain, I dont see the point to even try for Legendary.

One major thing that NEEDS to be changed is the cost of leveling 35+. With all these changes in stamina its going to be much too difficult to even get the tokens let alone make the massive chunk of gold needed to level.

Edited by Trendkill, 02 August 2011 - 05:19 AM.