50 replies to this topic

[Elf]

Since PK was turned back on.. I have had many players come to me unhappy. At this point, we have few enough people that we need to support as many different playing styles as we can.

JLH and I have talked about this, and come up with the following plan for the multi server only.

Each character would have the option of being set as a PK or no-PK character. All new characters would be able to set it for free before level 10. All existing characters would be by default PK, but have the option of switching one-time only for free (like the /reset command).

This way all players have what they really want.
Have a playing party.. and a notorious PK party !! Mix em up...

We think this is the best chance for getting the game to start growing again. Trev even says he'll come back and build again for the multi server when this happens. New areas, more players, more game.
Ideally PK and no-PK will not be able to party or be mixed in any way together.

Post away !!

Elf

[PaIn]

so that means nopk people can come and steal your boss kills because you cant attack them or get them away..?

[deadman]

I don't like this idea at all.. It wouldn't work and would make to many people annoyed and quit. The only ones that would stay would be the ones that are anti-pk. Like the post above me says, if a person has a party full of NOPK characters shows up at your boss you were working on and tries to steal the kill you are basically screwed and can't do a think if he does get the kill. It just doesn't fit, and I think would have the reverse effect of what you are trying for.

[MÚÐVÃ¥ÑË]

I like the Idea. That does give the people of Nopk what they want and the pkers what they want. The risk of a kill shot being stole isnt that high if your running a large party even if they cant be attacked. Plus normally if people arent ignorant they would leave the kill alone if it is mod or mort.. Best of luck with that Elfy, I support it!

[mjfwebb]

Simply making the rooms pk-able will bypass any potential issues like the above. I know JLH is capable of making it that way

[Crane]

Will it blend? That is the question.

Heh, sorry about that! Anyway... it feels a little dodgy to me. Since to PK or not to PK is per-character, I can see someone possibly having two separate parties of characters, one for PKing and another for non-PKing. Or an even worse one... a party of PKable Thieves with a non-PKable Cleric alongside, healing them.

I would suggest that those set to non-PK do not lose gold, inventory or XP if they are PKed, although they are sent to their local tavern, however they cannot attack other players (except in a mosh or an arena), even if they are trying to defend themselves from a PKer.

ADDENDUM: I'm not sure if a PKer should be credited with a kill if they attack a non-PKer in this case, and if the non-PKer victim is credited with a death.

Edited by Crane, 22 January 2009 - 01:33 AM.

[Autek]

/load main party . . . choose nopk on them all. . . steal mass boss killz

[deadman]

What she means is that if a person makes themselves NOPK then they can not be attacked so I fail to understand your post Crane. The part I do get is that yes, people would use mixed parties some pk some not, so if they did go after someone the victim is going to have a bunch of trouble finding the ones he can hit. Then you add in the nopked cleric spelling the pkable thieves there would be no killing the cleric to prevent that.

Coding seperate squares would take extra work i am unsure JLH wants to do. And also you would think people would be kind to leave a boss someone else got mod or mort alone, but it doesn't always work in that way and people would abuse it.

[Crane]

Obviously, PKers could only target other PKers, or at least crits set to PK; pure non-PK parties would be safe from such abuse, but I can imagine a said non-PKer setting their Thieves or a couple of Rangers to PK for security.

Elf mentioned that parties would probably be set so PKers and non-PKers could not be in the same party. That would require a bit of coding, but that is definitely a plausible solution if you can accept not teaming up with a friend who uses PK crits (if you're a non-PKer) in order to take on Shifting Sands and the like.

Edited by Crane, 22 January 2009 - 01:09 AM.

[SwampStalker]

I think it's worth a try, I mean, we won't know what it's like until someone impliments the idea...

And HOPEFULLY people in this game arent big enough dickheads to steal boss kills, most people i've met are pretty cool about that stuff.

[Peacemaker]

If im correct here the way Elf stated it would be that a party of pk and non pk crits would not be allowed. That only pk crits could party with pk crits and that non pk crits could only party with other non pk crits. I would suggest that you make it to where once a party of non pk or pk crits hits a boss square that only those kind of crits minus a paci are allowed on the square till the boss dies. This would take out the option of steal killing if you are a pker at a boss. Maybe also a message on characters when you do /who and it shows all the characters online. One section for pkers and one sectiong for non pkers.

Edited by Peacemaker, 22 January 2009 - 01:38 AM.

[Tietsu]

I don't play main, but that just seems wrong.

[Isolated]

weak, not supporteed in the least bit

[Tietsu]

omg, and I would also like to say about the Trevayne thing, growing the game? Multi has WAY WAY WAY less playerbase than 1-ALT and my 1 ALT Area development got shot down because of low playerbase. I'd be just fine to keep Trevayne gone and add someone else in his place. Like Wes said, there is no need for new areas with a low playerbase.

[Achilles]

bad idea.. id have 18 pking zerks and 2 nopk clerics... just a short example of why.. ill post back later

[Dekade]

Ok so staff ask for players to post there opinions and then when one does it gets deleted, I would hate to flame a topic that a Staff member posted especially one of Elf's, but thats a little weak don't you think?


It wasn't me.
-Stadius

[Scripto]

Err this is a joke right?

People are complaining about Multi? Everyone I have talk to loves multi and started playing again just for that reason of it being PK?

Ya I want Trev back... but this is a joke right? Early April fools?

Sorry to say, and I know people will probably be mad at me.. but I don't support this..

It is only asking for trouble with people stealing kills, setting off traps on people and you can't get back at them and all kinds of stuff...

[Dekade]

Maybe Simon hacked Elf's account and posted

[«¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤»]

Yea this is crazy talk... tot unsupported...

Out of everyone that posted so far, i see 2 yes's. One don't even play anymore.

I've not heard anyone complain about pking being back... I have seen 12-14 players on at a time daily on main.

Why fix what isn't broke?

I play main on a regular basis. I've been pked a few times already. I took my licks though.

My suggestion. Make the medow north of ngh no-pk and get rid of the magi. Then all the loving fairys can prance around and play patty cakes with the loving bunnies all they want...

Edited by «¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤», 22 January 2009 - 02:56 AM.

[Sausage]

Elf, I love you. But this is a bad bad idea.

Making Main pk was a step in the right direction. This is a step, maybe two, in the wrong direction.

[shomer]

this never happened back when we all got pked multiple times a day, so why should it now when a few select people get killed a couple times?

[Gaddy]

I can't say I think this will work very well, and I do not support making the change.


Players like me could simply set their main boss-killing parties to NOPK, and then setup a set of 19 thieves and a druid for PKing. This seems rather unfair.
It would also defeat the point of having the server set to being PK. Everyone could simply set their characters to NOPK, until they reached levels at which they feel like PKing, then go into PK mode for free.


Perhaps raise the PK system to having to be level 15 or 20, and then remove the level restriction.

[Desendent]

i also disagree with this, either everybody should be able to pk or nobody

[Crane]

Unless I have missed something (bar his post being a little hard to follow in places), can Dekade's post be restored? I do not know the reason for its deletion, but when I read it I saw nothing offensive about it, just an in-depth account of how he felt about this proposal. I am not giving any names, but I do feel that the forum moderators can be a little overzealous sometimes.

For my own take on PKing, most of my fears are psychological rather than from any actual incidents. I am a little more cagey and cautious now when I travel around, logging off unnecessary crits when fighting the Elder Treant and Genevieve, for example, and not sticking around the forests for very long. Personally, I find that other players seem to like me and know that I am not a troublemaker, and therefore do not bother me; similarly, I stay out of their way unless invited to tag along; if I run into someone on the way to a boss and there is not much in the way of a truce, I usually let them go ahead and not raise an issue about it - I will just try again another day. Though I am not a fan of PKing myself, the simple presence of PKing seems to put a lot more emphasis on a player's reputation with the rest of the playerbase. Respect goes both ways, and a long way.

Do not abandon a server just because of its PK status. Even before it was originally disabled, the multi-alt server had a very different society to the 1-alt server, mainly because being a solitary player on the multi-alt server, like I am, is a viable option, whereas on 1-alt you have to be in a big clan and, in a sense, sacrifice your individuality and personal needs in order to climb the ranks effectively. With areas like the Soft Places (Shifting Sands) and the Dvergar Stronghold, ones that generally require at least two very powerful players to complete, there is an incentive to team up on multi-alt, but it is not compulsory. In fact, I am pretty sure that there is at least one drop from Resca that has not appeared in-game yet, and team-players will be the first to discover what it is; to prove my point, what is this picture of?


EDIT: Grammar.

Edited by Crane, 22 January 2009 - 04:07 AM.

[Gaddy]

On another note, I would be willing to have the server go to just about any PK system if Trevayne were actively making new areas again.

New adventures to go on and new monsters to face would be well worth seeing alternative systems.

[«¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤»]

Trev is a great asset.

I supose i'd ask the question, does trev creating areas bring about as much activity as pk. Plus if both make the game more active then why not have them both, instead of just one...

Trev is awesome at areas. I love his work. I don't see why one thing has to be cut for another though.

[Achilles]

omg, and I would also like to say about the Trevayne thing, growing the game? Multi has WAY WAY WAY less playerbase than 1-ALT and my 1 ALT Area development got shot down because of low playerbase. I'd be just fine to keep Trevayne gone and add someone else in his place. Like Wes said, there is no need for new areas with a low playerbase.

/nod

I agree with alec, but both servers have more players now than they have had in a long time.. we killed banshee 2 times in last 3 days.. DA had 16 on today... main now that its pk again has more than it has had in recent numbers if im not mistaken as well... and in all honesty all i have heard is praise for main being pk, unlike this thread suggests..

As for Trev. giving and ultimatum to have things his way in order to develop new area's i highly disagree with that... if anything, another person could be given this responsibility without having to make the game "nopk-ish"... anyways, besides that, 1alt needs an area developer more than main and it is unfortunant that everyone.

As for the point of the topic, everyone has said the same thing about how it would be unfair. I could garantee everyone would have their clerics nopk and this would cause a big stir... My final(and yes this is serious) suggestion is that trev be brought back and he makes a large area with more twists and turns than ever, that is nopk. Make it it's own little "divine" area or something... idk.. thats the only way i see it being "the best of both worlds"

[Gaddy]

The idea orignally included that NOPK and PK characters should not be able to join the same party, etc.
However...you don't have to be in the same party to interact with other characters. So, I do not see how things like keeping clerics NOPK could be prevented with normal Nightmist systems.

[Trevayne]

I'm always amazed that some people seem to think they know what I've said when they clearly know nothing.

I've been away for quite a while with some heavy work committments, but I stop in every once in a while to see what is happening. I'm very happy to see the number of players increasing on both servers, and I'm very thankful to Elf for keeping many things running behind the scenes.

If you want Nightmist to keep being an interesting game, then it needs a tiny bit of support from JLH. There is no substitute.

If JLH is willing to make some small updates on occasion, then I think there are a lot of different things that can be done to keep things lively. But if he's not really willing to spend any time on the game (as it was the last few years that I was active), then I don't see any sense in spending effort on a dying game engine.

Part of making the game more fun is to grow the playerbase, and to do that, we need to be inclusive of many different play styles. We can't afford to be turning people away. I think allowing both a PK and no-PK option on the main server would require a little bit of work, but it's not insurmountable (you'd need no-cast, no-login, remove JZ, and no-party across PK status). I'd also like to see a whole new continent for level 31+ characters (where you can only go there or come back once a week or once a month). I'm also pretty interested in the idea of having some areas that are no-PK, or that are restricted to teams of players (no single explorers allowed). But all of these things require a little bit of effort from JLH.

Finally, you all need to remember that staff are volunteers. If I had wanted to give an ultimatum about what volunteer effort I was willing to give, I'd have been completely within my rights. If JLH wanted to listen to me or ignore me, he'd be completely within his rights. Stop treating staff like they owe you something and you might find them much more willing to volunteer their time to run events, build cool content, and make the game more fun for you.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

Not a great fan of this idea, for all the reasons listed above.

I do like the idea of making some areas nopk though.

Maybe areas surrounding towns made nopk, because (from a roleplaying side) guards who stand at gates of cities can still see you, only when you get out into deeper parts of the NM realm does it turn savage.

Also - I think it was Gaddy who said this but making it so only characters above level 15/20 can kill and be killed I think is a great idea. This stops new players being killed when they've just started to play the game, and I can see why it might turn people away if the second they hit level 5 they started dieing all the time (because they don't know enough about the game to not get killed).

Edited by Äññöÿäñcë, 22 January 2009 - 08:58 AM.