Jump to content


Photo

Devastate


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:14 AM

Ok, it has been a very long time since I have bothered suggesting this, but the time has come to bring it back up. I'm not suggesting that it be brought in at a price that will be acquirable by very many players, and possible also be a reward of reaching a certain level (possibly 33-35). I myself think 10 mill not only would be a reasonable price, but it would be perfect considering it would basically be the equivalent for a cobalt for mages. Anyways, I think the scroll should be added because:

1) Mages are extremely underused on 1alt, and everyone knows they are the most fun class. This would definitely be an incentive to use the class by at least a few. Not to mention reward the players that have stuck with them.

2.1) Mages need a goal to go after. Everyone else has the option of saving up for a cobalt staff, if you're a mage user then you have no reason for gold. Is that fair?

2.2)The price suggested is high enough for a item that is not near as sought after as its "equivilant" , the cobalt staff of the winds. Because of this it wouldn't be flooded into the game by any means. Probably will only see a couple people with it for a long time. (Not to mention that the price of leveling past 35 is slightly ridiculous, but it helps the economy, and will also limit the amount of the scroll and also the cobalt staff.)

2.3) Cobalt's are transferable from character to character and are a blessing, devastate sticks to one character, therefore will be less valuable to buy.

3.1) Cobalt and pretty much all item's of very high value (from boots to rings, everything) are valuable to player vs. player and player vs. monster. With devastate it is a strictly player vs. player spell. This is because of the massive mana drain. It's about 2.5 times more than a beam, and against monsters it doesn't effect it very much(compared to beam).

3.2) For 10mill this spell isn't near as dominant/useful as a cobalt. It won't overpower mages, it will just enhance them a little. Which other classes have a cleric to do the same thing, mages have to opt to spend 10mill for the same thing you can get for your buddy logging on a cleric.

4) Main recently went back to PK, and they're are a few scrolls active over there. If the spell was added to 1alt it would take a very long time before there would be half as many as main has. And in my estimation it wont ever have more than main. Because of the fact that 10mill isn't easy to make on 1alt, and anyone that does make it will probably opt for a cobalt. Plus the fact that there are few mage users, more less mage users with 10 mill.

Anyways, that's my case, and I really would appreciate it if you would please stay on topic. I will read with respect, and respond with respect to any post that disagree with this post as long as they're thought out posts. Thank you for your time.

edit:For the record, Day is the only active mage above 33, and i have nowhere near 10mill.. and will soon have even less.

edit:Also, something else useful to point out, there is only 1 cobalt staff in the game as of now.

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 10:58 AM.


#2 Dangerous

Dangerous
  • Members
  • 498 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 10:22 AM

I don't use a mage myself, but i agree 100%

#3 Äññöÿäñcë

Äññöÿäñcë
  • Members
  • 2132 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:33 PM

Alright..

I don't agree with your "2.1) Mages need a goal to go after. Everyone else has the option of saving up for a cobalt staff, if you're a mage user then you have no reason for gold" - the cobalt staff isn't the only thing ingame worth saving up for. No reason for gold? haha

Devastate isn't strictly a player vs player spell at all either, i'm not sure where you got this from..

Mages do need some kind of push to get them to level 40/higher levels, but I don't think devastate is the way to do it. It's all well and good putting it up for 10 mil with a level 35 minimum, but when a level 35 mage ends up with devastate it'd be unstoppable. Multi doesn't really have this problem, as there are alts. Devastate may be strong, but against more than two opponents the chances of survival are slim. If it was 1a, it would be so easy for this devastate mage to find someone training, round them in 5 stamina, invis with the sixth and still have another to run away..

Mages do need something though. Fire Barrage :ph34r: Like berserk for mages lolz
Disaster ingame.

#4 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:54 PM

Giving devastate to mages won't make any big difference, even if you do put it at 6-10 mil. It would purely be on the pvp side, you'd be able to round characters easier etc - the pvm side makes hardly any difference (you may hit 25 on the kraken with beam, but you'll hit 30 with devastate, its not that big of a deal really - and it costs much more mana).


... edit: do elaborate how it would be useful for pvm? since you suddenly have a change of opinion

Edit:
Day is a Female Elf Archmaster Class V Sorceress. She looks normal, very wise, extremely fast, and sexy. In one hand she holds a Broomstick, which glows with a magical aura, the other a Fire Bands. She is wearing a Robe of Storms, and a Witches Hat protects her head. Around her neck sits an Amulet of Hermes. She has a Spyglass and a Baron's Bracelet around her wrists. She is wearing a Ring of Thunder, a Ring of Thunder, a Ring of Thunder, a Ring of Thunder, and Spider Gauntlets on her hands. Her feet are protected by Vindicator's Boots. She is the Chairwoman (ipwnu) of Ðårk Å££Ïånçê and she has been slightly wounded.

do tell me what i need to save gold for.. have prophecy decked out the same way... minus the broomstick.. eat your words?...


and for your third and final point, saying it would be unstoppable.. i got clicked 3x in a row by spelled thief.. and walt/will can click it unspelled.. time aop and you can easily click it with a ling...

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 02:01 PM.


#5 Gaddy

Gaddy
  • Advisors
  • 5242 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:58 PM

3.1) Cobalt and pretty much all item's of very high value (from boots to rings, everything) are valuable to player vs. player and player vs. monster. With devastate it is a strictly player vs. player spell. This is because of the massive mana drain. It's about 2.5 times more than a beam, and against monsters it doesn't effect it very much(compared to beam).


3.2) For 10mill this spell isn't near as dominant/useful as a cobalt. It won't overpower mages, it will just enhance them a little. Which other classes have a cleric to do the same thing, mages have to opt to spend 10mill for the same thing you can get for your buddy logging on a cleric.


4) Main recently went back to PK, and they're are a few scrolls active over there. If the spell was added to 1alt it would take a very long time before there would be half as many as main has. And in my estimation it wont ever have more than main. Because of the fact that 10mill isn't easy to make on 1alt, and anyone that does make it will probably opt for a cobalt. Plus the fact that there are few mage users, more less mage users with 10 mill.


edit:For the record, Day is the only active mage above 33, and i have nowhere near 10mill.. and will soon have even less.


3.1 - Not true. Yes, it takes lots of mana. No, it is pretty good against monsters compared to beam. I have tested it out quite a bit with Deimos.

3.2 - How would you know?

4 - I feel like you don't know what you are talking about here. Devastate was added via a Christmas quest around 3 years ago. There are 3 mages with it, and it has not been made available as an attainable item for buying or boss killing.


Anyway, I am not really for this. I can't say I think it is some horrible idea though.
However, I don't like to see arguements made that are completely without backing, knowledge, or unbias opinion...which is your whole case.

Wisdom is the principle thing. Therefore, get wisdom, and in all your getting, get understanding.
-Proverbs 4:7

#6 Gaddy

Gaddy
  • Advisors
  • 5242 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:01 PM

Giving devastate to mages won't make any big difference, even if you do put it at 6-10 mil. It would purely be on the pvp side, you'd be able to round characters easier etc - the pvm side makes hardly any difference (you may hit 25 on the kraken with beam, but you'll hit 30 with devastate, its not that big of a deal really - and it costs much more mana).


... edit.. do elaborate how it would be useful for pvm? since you suddenly have a change of opinion


Note that 30 is 1/5th extra damage to 25.
Any questions?
Wisdom is the principle thing. Therefore, get wisdom, and in all your getting, get understanding.
-Proverbs 4:7

#7 Tietsu

Tietsu
  • Members
  • 832 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:05 PM

For 10 Mil, you had better be able to kill several people with ease. But I also see the one 35 mage in-game owning everyone anyway. Cobalt is a massive gold maker. You give me a Cobalt for 1 day and I can make well over 500K without breaking a sweat. This gives other classes the ability to make gold for leveling way way way easy. Devestate for mages, it would cost them way way more to train and level. Cobalt = Money Maker - Devestate = Money Taker. Sure there are many other good points on why we should have added Devestate as a buyable spell, but I chose this one to make a point.

#8 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:07 PM

Giving devastate to mages won't make any big difference, even if you do put it at 6-10 mil. It would purely be on the pvp side, you'd be able to round characters easier etc - the pvm side makes hardly any difference (you may hit 25 on the kraken with beam, but you'll hit 30 with devastate, its not that big of a deal really - and it costs much more mana).


... edit.. do elaborate how it would be useful for pvm? since you suddenly have a change of opinion


Note that 30 is 1/5th extra damage to 25.
Any questions?


good point.. so i get 14ish extra per cast (compared to a beam of 70) on most monsters for 2.5x the cost of beam.. if you used that to train you would be a fool...

edit:Calculator: 23*6 = 138
95's on hedge minion would be good actually.. but still wouldnt be worth it.. because even with 549mp it wouldnt take but like 4&1/2 rounds to use a entire mana bar...

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 02:51 PM.


#9 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:11 PM

and as for 3.2 it may be as dominant, but is definitely not as useful..

#10 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:18 PM

there is 3 mages with devastate plus the one deleted.. how many mages you see on 1alt that have even 6stamina?.. there is one cobalt ingame... people will buy cobalt over devastate when they do get 10mill.. considering how many people arent even 1/3 of the way there that are considered 'elite' i dont see more than 3 entering the game for a VERRRY long time.. if ever


edit: my mage for one would be setting without it for quite a while(months upon months probably) even if it were added... and you can see how bad i want it

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 02:25 PM.


#11 Äññöÿäñcë

Äññöÿäñcë
  • Members
  • 2132 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 04:08 PM

eh, train up a thief

then you can save for a cobalt! go you!


and to the post up there where you seemed to quote something i said last year june time, since then i've used a devastate mage a lot more and my opinion has changed.

how devastate would be useful pvm? erm.. you hit more damage?

Edited by Äññöÿäñcë, 12 January 2009 - 04:11 PM.

Disaster ingame.

#12 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 04:43 PM

um.. i think i clearly stated you hit more.. and gaddy and i clearly stated that it is 5% more.. but using it player vs monster wouldnt be benificial enough to train with, and the only bosses ive ever logged to local with mage were gsw/hl.. solo'd hl several times and gsw twice.. cost 19k to solo gsw.. if you did that with devastate it would cost 10x as much... hl you dont lose much gold, but with devastate you would lose a ton... your point is there, but the logic is not...

edit:you do about a literal 10x as much damage with a bar of beam compared to a bar of devastate.. granted you use a bar of devastate very quickly this fact shouldnt be that surprising.. but with your post's, it seems that it might be...

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 04:49 PM.


#13 Peacemaker

Peacemaker
  • Members
  • 1940 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 05:50 PM

Well lets see. Alec says that the mage pwns already. So lets make it better? Nah i dont think so. Thieves may rule the server but that is cause more people chose to train them and got them to higher lvls. If there were just as many mages at that lvl it would be about equal. You say that a full bar of beam can do more damage then devastate? Then why do you need devastate? To pk with? To me based on what staff says that would be promoting antisocial behavior on the staffs part if they was to implement this spell ingame. Ya people can buy cobalts that is true, but people dont merely just use cobalts to pk with. They are primarily used to train easier on the one alt server which is considered social behavior. Cause the less pkers there are the more there is people training and the more social it is which most staff approves of. Now thats not my point of view though cause i would just say give everyone a weapon that can kill anyone with one hit and lets have some fun lol but thats just me. :ph34r:

Edited by Peacemaker, 12 January 2009 - 06:58 PM.

Peacemaker both servers.

#14 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 06:42 PM

learn to read.. i stopped reading your post when you said that i said a round of beam could do more damage than devastate.. you are to "slow" to play nightmist.. a bar and a round are two entirely different things...

and the first part about mage already owning.. thats because when we fight we time our beam/sw and own you all.. oh and im pro shader..

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 06:44 PM.


#15 Äññöÿäñcë

Äññöÿäñcë
  • Members
  • 2132 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 06:53 PM

why are you being so aggressive lol, we don't agree with you.. being a turnip won't change our opinions. if you actually want a shot at getting devastate for 1a take into account what we've said then counter-argue, no need for all this "eat your words?" "learn to read" bollucks..
Disaster ingame.

#16 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 06:58 PM

eat your words was not uncalled for imo.. what else am i suppose to buy?... enlighten me.. and jakes post was literally the dumbest thing ive ever read in my life...

and here's a counter argument for you.. there will be probably one scroll in the game.. there are like 15 emerald daggers... whats overpowered?
edit: a little of topic.. but also con mods make thieves invisible... not to mention that invisibility mana cost was raised because mages WERE overpowered.. well they arent anymore.. change it back..

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 07:00 PM.


#17 Peacemaker

Peacemaker
  • Members
  • 1940 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:02 PM

learn to read.. i stopped reading your post when you said that i said a round of beam could do more damage than devastate.. you are to "slow" to play nightmist.. a bar and a round are two entirely different things...

and the first part about mage already owning.. thats because when we fight we time our beam/sw and own you all.. oh and im pro shader..


Again. What is your logic for putting the spell ingame. So far all i see is just to kill people. If that was the case lets give everyone a weapon that does more base damage so we can all kill people easier. You have no logic sir.
Peacemaker both servers.

#18 Äññöÿäñcë

Äññöÿäñcë
  • Members
  • 2132 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

eat your words wasnt really that bad in all fairness, but still, it was just a bad example ;p

can you round Hitokiri on Day?
Disaster ingame.

#19 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:07 PM

EDIT: posted about posts being deleted right here... think my internet screwed up.. idk lol...

That is the logic behind it?.. thus i said it is strictly player vs. player?.. im beginning to think someone didnt read the entire post, or even half of it... and you mean a weapon like emerald dagger?.. i just said that as well.. its 29base damage on a 7stam thief(one in which is going to be 8 sooner than i could have devastate, possibly two) is exaclty the same situation... except emerald dagger is alot easier to get.. 10+ ingame.. probably closer to 15, and more and more are coming...



and no i cant round any lvl 35+ thief on day(besides mike and that was his own fault.)

edit: and i believe day has been clicked just about by every one of them one time or another.. excluding lings/rush(Which will click it nearly everytime with hance/rf.. like literally everytime)

Edited by Achilles, 12 January 2009 - 07:16 PM.


#20 Isolated

Isolated
  • Members
  • 774 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:28 PM

learn to read.. i stopped reading your post when you said that i said a round of beam could do more damage than devastate.. you are to "slow" to play nightmist.. a bar and a round are two entirely different things...

and the first part about mage already owning.. thats because when we fight we time our beam/sw and own you all.. oh and im pro shader..


Again. What is your logic for putting the spell ingame. So far all i see is just to kill people. If that was the case lets give everyone a weapon that does more base damage so we can all kill people easier. You have no logic sir.


Just quit playing nm, Only reason you dont want to see is because youre a tad bit afraid of getting rocked by Day alot more.


I'd support it.. Devastate isnt all that fantastic and it would DEFINETLY make the whole 1alt thing a little bit more even you know with 75% of the game hiding behind pandemonium..
f uck you I wont do what you tell me

#21 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 07:37 PM

ownd x2... i agree with what walt is saying throughout the post.. its a 1stam attack.. you can drink a pot and cancel it out... and its not that much more damage per stam.. i have to have full health at all times watching my arse, because if i dont i will get clicked for sure... and finally i like how he beat the people to the punch on main vs 1alt aspect of this discussion, and feel he is 100% right there... and his last point, i will still be the same mage that you can click.. i just can deal out a little more damage.. and for 10mill, it is a little more damage, compared to your free/1millish emerald dagger...

and josh hit it on the button.. most of you are disagreeing with this not because of what i am saying, but because you are worried i will own you...

#22 Äññöÿäñcë

Äññöÿäñcë
  • Members
  • 2132 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:10 PM

Why not just put the GD spell in game and make it optional like everything else you can buy?


because it may be overpowered and mess up the game :ph34r:

i say give him it for 2 weeks and see what happens, if its all good then put it up for sale ;)
Disaster ingame.

#23 Dekade

Dekade
  • Members
  • 127 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:45 PM

I guess I will post to make things clear for all those who can't grasp what will happen.
Lets start at the bottom and work our way up.

Mages - Mages were king of 1a for about the first year. What happened? Thieves with 6stam and the penetrate armor + the pot smashing macro. Not to mention when a lvl 33 dwarf thief could only be rounded by a lvl 35 Mage with a Intel ammy on. And the mage could be clicked by it in return.

Currently on 1a there is.... One? Mage user left. As to the 20+ thieves, And yes 17 of them were in a group not to long ago and 7 of those were 35+. Mages are the most expensive class to level up. Don't believe me try it for yourself. If all you did was make exp on your mage you would make maybe 10% of what anything else would make, not so much if you did it in hedges but we all know what happens if you go there for exp.

That leads us to the cost of Devastate, 10m for a mage, 1 time only use, no sell back price, a little extra damage for double the cost of beam... Compared to a Cobalt, no need for pots, can sell back, can switch from crit to crit, best weapon in game, and mages dont benefit from it.

Now to the damage of devastate. Devastate's damage is yes better then beam but at what cost. Logically, you would think you would train using devastate for the extra pod, but if you used the same amount of mana on beams you would get the most for the money, and I've already stated how much it cost to level a mage so that would be retarded unless you had the gold which you wont to blow on the extra mana. Hell logically you could do more damage with shock in a bar but that would just take to long to make any exp. So devastate will be used for pking purposes you say.. Um duh? Not like it will change anything except someone off guard if you are still dueling someone you just hold down the pot macro and then click the same mage.. Woopdy do?

Now how and when would a person use devastate.

Pros.
-Wanting exp faster and willing to pay more gold to get it (Kinda a pro and con?)
-Being able to train in different places because you could then kill the monster solo
-Pking/Dueling - Only place this will really benefit you is catching someone off guard. Which with beam it was hard to round a lvl 33 thief but the lvl 33 thief could click the mage!? Because of macro smashers.

Cons.
-Cost twice as much to cast so no real point
-(Would) cost as much as a cobalt 10m. When it takes 6? Tokens + 2m to get to the next level then even more after that
-One time use, if you found that it wasn't worth it you wouldn't be able to sell it back!?

P.S. - I don't see one of these happening unless the mage user (one of them omg) decides it would be better to be at lvl 35 with devastate then leveling to the next level............. And that would make him a retard.
Logos.

#24 Sausage

Sausage

    Old School Nub

  • Members
  • 1409 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:58 PM

TBH honest I'm not even going to post my input cuz half you tards can't stay on topic. What a shame...

Maybe a lil input....

Supported.

Retired... Now I know how it feels to quit NM and troll forums.


#25 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 12 January 2009 - 09:00 PM

/nod dekade... the mage wont have devastate for a very long time.. therefore everyone will have plenty of time for 8stam, which will inturn be way more powerful than this "godly" spell that i want because mages are way funner than thieves (imo)... anyways, i couldnt get devastate at 35 if that was an option anyway because of lack of gold so it will more than likely be 37 before we even start saving.. and i know nobody else will have plans to get it anytime soon, thus proving my point of there not being very many scrolls in the future of this game, ever....

#26 Tietsu

Tietsu
  • Members
  • 832 posts

Posted 13 January 2009 - 01:51 AM

Scroll of Devastate is Supported (With a cost of way way less than 10 Mil)

#27 Gaddy

Gaddy
  • Advisors
  • 5242 posts

Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:38 AM

um.. i think i clearly stated you hit more.. and gaddy and i clearly stated that it is 5% more.. but using it player vs monster wouldnt be benificial enough to train with, and the only bosses ive ever logged to local with mage were gsw/hl.. solo'd hl several times and gsw twice.. cost 19k to solo gsw.. if you did that with devastate it would cost 10x as much... hl you dont lose much gold, but with devastate you would lose a ton... your point is there, but the logic is not...

edit:you do about a literal 10x as much damage with a bar of beam compared to a bar of devastate.. granted you use a bar of devastate very quickly this fact shouldnt be that surprising.. but with your post's, it seems that it might be...


I am drunk. If this is nonsense or ignoring half the posts made, I am sorry.

5% is different from 1/5th...because 1/5th is 20%.
I've taken too many mathematics courses to be quoted incorrectly with numbers.
Wisdom is the principle thing. Therefore, get wisdom, and in all your getting, get understanding.
-Proverbs 4:7

#28 Achilles

Achilles
  • Members
  • 321 posts

Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:56 AM

lol you are correct.. its a typo.. the math that is in the posts are correct tho..


edit: for instance when i said "so i get 14ish extra per cast (compared to a beam of 70)" that is 20%, or 1/5.. i just typed 5% because i am a noob :ph34r:

Edited by Achilles, 13 January 2009 - 11:07 AM.


#29 Prophet

Prophet
  • Members
  • 1772 posts

Posted 13 January 2009 - 11:09 AM

Can I see the numbers for this "you do a literal 10x more damage with a bar of beam"

If Devastate costs 2.5x as much as beam then again quoting your numbers that you would be able to have 4 and 1/2 rounds of devastate per bar, then you would get 11.25 rounds of beam per bar, which is definitely not 10x more damage.
Si Senior!

#30 Oracle

Oracle

    Wes

  • Game Staff
  • 1398 posts

Posted 13 January 2009 - 11:14 AM

My opinion concisely;
I like the idea of having Devastate as a high level only spell with higher mana usage and higher damage.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users