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Pacifists Locked Out Of The Bone Garden


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#1 Crane

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 01:17 AM

I can understand the reasons for Pacifists being locked out of the Bone Garden, but the role-play reason is rather inconsistent. It mentions that there is great evil down there and that it is no place for them, yet on the first squares down, the detailed description contains the following sentence:

"The feeling here though is not one of terror or disgust, but rather of reflection and reverance."

My understanding of the Bone Garden is that it is an Elven cemetery, a very beautiful graveyard, and not some place of horror. It is unfortunate that a few Elven corpses were animated by a greater power, either the same twisted evil that animates the likes of Skeletons or a local necromancer. Thing is, I thought it was the Pacifists' role to free the tortured souls of such animated abominations, so why ban them from their path?

If we do go by the assumption that the Bone Garden is a place of great evil, then there is another inconsistency, because there are places in Nightmist whose evil is certainly greater still, namely the Underground Barracks and Harabec Dungeon, and yet Pacifists can enter those areas to release tortured souls (although whether Demonic Soldiers are tortured souls or not is debatable).

While the Pacifists can train in the nearby Illuminated Tunnel, I feel that even if the Bone Garden was available, most Pacifists will still use the tunnel because it is simply safer, plus the caste can acquire more gold from Vampire Bats due to their low hit-points (mana will stay at maximum thanks to the deity) and the way lone crits work compared to a party.

Edited by Crane, 09 October 2008 - 01:18 AM.

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#2 Sausage

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 03:32 PM

Supported. Only makes sense. I still support a mini-boss in BG as well.

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#3 shomer

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 06:32 PM

Supported. Only makes sense. I still support a mini-boss in BG as well.


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#4 Crane

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:01 PM

The area below radiates death, hostility, and pain. It is no place for your kind.

So Pacifists are not allowed to enter graveyards and are not allowed to ease the pain of the Elven Barrow Wights who have been reanimated... why are they locked out of this area? I am aware of the extreme policy to ban Pacifists from all new areas, and I understand why they cannot enter the Dvergar Stronghold, but come on... they should be allowed in the Bone Garden, and indeed they were allowed in there during the reign of Necro Claus.
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#5 Elf

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:45 PM

they should be allowed in the Bone Garden, and indeed they were allowed in there during the reign of Necro Claus.



I asked specifically for ALL classes to be allowed in
and for the Kantele Pub to be opened for all for the quest.

It was not originally intended to be that way.
Though the Pub stayed open to all..........
shhhhhhhhhhhh don't tell staff !!


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#6 Crane

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:56 PM

I am wondering if Ael'Ver's Tavern should still be open to all classes - mind you, it could reflect the Elves opening up and becoming less élitist and xenophobic.

Is it possible to consider whether Pacifists be allowed back into the Bone Garden? Because in all honesty, even with that red message turning away the caste, the Bone Garden is not an evil place by nature. It's just unfortunate that a Necromancer has animated a few Elven corpses down there; at least that is how it looks to me, and Necro Claus certainly was a Necromancer of some kind.
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#7 Gaddy

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:06 PM

I disagree with altering it without talking to Trevayne.
If he wants to change it, then it is fine. If not, it is not okay.
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#8 Ghost_Wolf

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:25 PM

if the area is to stay open some things do need to happen.

Some sort of boss does need to be added as stated. The area is nice, i have visited it myself a couple of times, but just the elven wights there do make it some what bland.

The area does need to be opened up to paccies. They are the ones that roam the land dispatching evil from the realm. It would only make proper sense to have them be able to go in and dispatch the elven dead there releaseing their tortured soul giving them some sort of rest. (it makes sense in the role play role of paccies as well.)

Open it to a full party. I went in with some of my peeps and we got rocked when we tried to go down and only 5 went down. There is no indication saying that only 5 can go down, and when you take 2 parties in and they try to move on the same square the party is shuffled. MASSIVE CONFUSION!


and....where is trevayne? ive not seen him around anywhere. is he alright? is there some way for someone to check on him perhaps?

Ty

EDIT: Also, if the area stays someone might want to think about adding some sort of story to that underground area, or add the area about "Haunted Hollows" into it to give it some sort of sense other then it just suddenly appearing. I will be more then happy to wright a story up about it if anyone wants.

Edited by Ghost_Wolf, 16 December 2008 - 10:31 PM.

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#9 Sausage

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 10:42 PM

if the area is to stay open some things do need to happen.


I don't agree with that at all. Bone Garden is a very nice area that, on main, we are very lucky to have. It would be kinda cool for a boss down there but definitely not necessary. Same thing with the paci thing. You have a horrid way of suggesting things.*


Besides that, I've said that BG should be open to pacis and have a mini-boss for ages now.

Looks like we have to depend on Elf to take care of everyone elses light work... again...**

* = Have you even paid any attention to the story line about down there? It's nothing crazy but there's definitely one and it works for me.

** = If we're even that lucky.. And I been wonder if trev is alright too. Him and tecton both seemed to have gone with the wind.

Edited by Sausage, 16 December 2008 - 10:45 PM.

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#10 Ghost_Wolf

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 12:26 AM

ive not found a story to go with the area, and if you suggest that just the xmas story line fall into place then i dont see how it fits at all. Unless! the story is extended to after the xmas quest ends and some sort of foul magic happened to stay to contiue to reanimate the elves there then that would be cool

you ever try going down there with 2 or 3 5 man teams and wonder around?

and as far as a bad way to suggest things, you yourself suggested the same as i did, does that make your suggestions bad as well? alot of people on the forums suggest things in a bad way as well, does that make everyonges thoughts bad as well?

Ty
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#11 Crane

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 01:13 AM

My take on the Bone Garden's back-story...

The Bone Garden is a subterranean cemetery for the Elves of Kantele that was a truly peaceful place. Being an Elven village that was until recently quite unwelcoming to non-Elven races, is fair to assume that the entrances were well-hidden so they could not be defiled by the said non-Elven races, and the Drow.

For reasons unknown, Evil Santa took on the form of an undead necromancer, possibly a lich, one year, and animated a number of the corpses that had been buried down there and had not yet decomposed enough to have their bones harvested. Because of the emergency of having undead Elves as well as Drow threatening Kantele, they opened their doors to outside races for the first time, and revealed the location of the Bone Garden so the natives could receive assistance against the undead scourge.

When Necro Claus was finally vanquished, the Elves felt they could conceal the entrances to their sacred cemetery once again, but some form of necromancy still lingers in the Bone Garden, possibly carried on by another necromancer. Therefore, the Elves had to open their Bone Garden to the outside again so the necromancy can be fought and the animated corpses returned to rest, hopefully permanently.

This is where the role-play conflict occurs, because the role of Pacifists is to bring peace to Nightmist and to the undead abominations of the realm. Because of this, they often spend long periods in the most evil of dungeons, bringing peace to those who have fallen from grace and to the tortured souls that suffer in the afterlife. Very few places are off-limits to Pacifists; such places tend to be the scenes of genocide (Abandoned Tomb), pointless and thoughtless bloodshed (Coliseum, Crazy Pete), and places where the evil is very well-organised and not undead (Dvergar Stronghold (if the Dvergar are evil), but not the Underground Barracks, since the organised evil there is very much undead).

But those aside, some Pacifists are brave enough to venture into Harabec Dungeon to bring peace to undead tormentors, tortured prisoners and even the torturers themselves - there are souls that can be saved there, so the Pacifists try. Similarly with the Pyramid of the 3rd Moon... despite the evil that resonates through the stone and animates the Ibis Statues, the presence of the suffering souls of slaves, and the tormented and twisted soul of Ganymede, is enough for Pacifists to brave the challenges to assist one of their own.

I'll say this again... considering how everything else is set up in the realm, banning them from the Bone Garden makes no sense, and the presence of death, hostility and pain is all the more reason for a Pacifist to enter in the hope they can pacify those essences.


As for the limitations in crit numbers, the Bone Garden isn't very spacious, although it does get awkward when parties run into each other and cannot move... as my understanding goes, crossroads do not have those limitations, so you can use those spaces as passing places.


ADDENDUM: You can't throw away role-play for the sake of game mechanics. Why must Pacifists be banned from all new areas? Is it punishment for the damage to the economy many years back? The Museum was fixed and there were no problems on that front since then. Greater Pact was made self-cast to prevent its abuse in disabling crits, and that solved that problem. But to continuously discriminate against them is a grudge. And then again, I suggested that they be shut off of parts of the Drow city in Tirantek because 1) the evil is well-organised and not undead, and 2) they were being abused to bypass the kill-to-pass monsters and the challenges in order to act as checkers and to collect Drow Journals, yet Trevayne refused to close the area off to them. Why? Because a small handful of players had already been using them for the abusive purpose for too long now? That comes across as nothing short of hypocrisy, not to mention a couple of other deep suspicions that I rather keep to myself for now.

Edited by Crane, 17 December 2008 - 01:32 AM.

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#12 Sausage

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 02:55 AM

Yes, I've trained many clerics in BG. Ran several different parties around and even was first to kill Necro Claus, tyvm. I still have the whole area memorized. So my knowledge of the Bone Garden is not an issue.

TY Crane. That's exactly the story line I was talking about. Although I wasn't aware it ran so deep heh.

As far as us recommending things the same way, you lost me there. But this isn't the place.

Side note, has anyone (staff or players) talked or heard from Trevayne? This topic seems kinda dead without him...

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#13 Elf

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:46 AM

I was the one who begged to have the Bone Garden returned to game after the quest.
Took me a bit of pestering Trev at that !

I wanted the Garden locked to all classes but healers at first.
We decided to allow all in after talking it out.
Pacis were excluded for the fact they neither needed more areas to train
and they bypass when all the Elven Barrow Wights are KTP
Also the area was not totally finished in my mind..........
Which is one reason they are excluded... Bypassing the KTP to find the end..
Not going to happen.... that is if it is extended yet.

On the Alt limit per grid.....
Stays. Crossroads are limitless for your passing pleasure though ;)

I could relock the Pub to Elf only if this is an issue.

On a Side note....
I talk to Trev almost daily and will be happy to get his take on this for y'all.

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#14 Sausage

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 04:31 PM

Dun du-du-dun!!! Elf to the rescue!

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#15 Elf

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 11:25 PM

Got a fast answer back from Trev on his area.


1) pacifists were excluded because they would really mess up parties in the 5-alt-limited area
2) because the goal was to have a an alt-limited area on multi that was good training. Pacifists never needed that.

and from me....
3) it stays as it is will be no more discussion on the topic. it is now locked.


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Meeting you was fate,
Becoming your friend was a choice,
But falling in love with you was beyond my control..




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