45 replies to this topic

[Ghost_Wolf]

I know some of these topics have been spoken of but i am adding them all in here with slashs to seperate them so they can all be seen at the same time.Bare with me.

->We have all heard of this new armor enhancement comeing out called spell absorb.Alot of people find this new enhancement has been rbought into the game to late to save there hides, others find it an exciteing new twist to the game, and some of us see this as a potential problem that is fixing to sweep 1a.Some facts on the issue.

-Mages on 1a will be effected the most due to the fact as everyone knows that is there only source of attack.Beam at arch hits a person for a max of 64 damage as tested on a current lvl 32 mage in 1a.His total rounded damage hits for a max of 320.When this new spell absorb armor goes in how much will his attack be effect?from what has been gathered so far a spell absorbation of .10 is 10% of the total 1 stam beam.so if he does 60 damage a beam the damage reduction will be 6 leaveing a total of 54 damage a shot.Further spell absorbation of say .30 on a 60 beam shot will be a reduction of 18 leaveing him with 42.Now no one is for sure how far spell absorbtion will go,but lets add the total amount with the 30% reduction.An arch mage with 5 stam,hitting someone with 60 beam damage (based on wisdom mind you) with a reduction on each hit of 30% is 210 damage.Anyone see something wrong with that here?The zerkers in game right now that are arched with Halbers hit for 500+ at times, an arch theif with Dagger of Spirits can hit 330.These classes alone have the ability to click an arch mage who comes out with 254 hp at arch.So the calculations here are that an Arch mage is going to stand in a fight against and Arch theif and do what?scratch him/her?If mages are going to be reduced to damage such as that i think something new should be added for them to balance this current issue out.Mind you as i said above this is all speculation due to the fact we don't know for sure what the absorb% is going to be yet or to what equips they will be placed on.There is still alot of unkown issues here.I suggest though add more armor to the mage class so they can stand a better chance.At arch with base equips a mage has 49 armor, when spelled there armor is 120.(This is based off current arch mage armor with Aop and other spells added into effect.*)Spells however dont last long and before anything is said about roundage or the fact if a mage has more armor then a fighter this will never happen look at the calculations above.Do something to rebalance the mage class out.When all of this started with people talking about mages being over powered i suggested raiseing the resistance rate a little but that did not get far.You thoughts and ideas on this topic will be waited for with intrest by many players.

-[Clan] Freek: Mages can only train close to a pub or spend lots of gold... They dont have spells that increase there dmg like any other class... They have as much hp as most classes have at lvl 25. They dont get beam till lvl 25.... They dont get 4 stam till 26 (edited for certain words lol.<3 jordon.)
-(Yes i know this has been spoken of before in another topic but like i said i am adding other stuff to this so again bare with me.)


->Fighters and a lack of.(As far as some people say.)


-Fighters in Nightmist have been here for a while and alot of people play them and have arched them on main.In 1a they are still played the same but different tactics have had be worked out to fully play the class.Alot of people think fighters need abilities to make the class more useful in combat.Think back to other games where fighters have been played.Fighters are basicly tanks designed to take heavy damage and to give heavy damage.The ability to equip heavy armor and massive weps have always been in there favor.If fighters do require something i believe they do need a magic wep of some kind or something like a magic wep that is vampiric to a small degree.Nothing over powering.Cobalts are just to much for 1a right now and i dont see one comeing into the game any time soon.


->New equipment layouts for those above average.

-We now have people in 1a and on main who have passed the lvl 30 barrier.Increases in stam and health seem to be doing pretty well at this point in time in the game.Players are looking though for a little something extra to add to this though.Alot of us have asked why just increae in lvls to increase in lvls?there really is not alot you can look forward to besides gaining more hp and stam as you progress through the world of Nightmist.What we would like to know is if there is anyway to add new equips to the game for higher lvl charcters.Say something maybe at lvl 35 and then lvl 40?A full set that is class specific perhaps?or break it down to three or four smaller equips at lvl 33,35,37 and then 40, with the lvl 40 equips being class specific.i don't really expect alot of support on this thought, but i threw it out into the air to see what kind of ideas flow.

Edited by Trevayne, 04 September 2007 - 09:20 PM.

[Bender]

You have a good point on the Mage theory. Seriously a mage won't win anything if others have armor that absorbs almost all the mage puts out.

[Trevayne]

I've moved this thread, as I think this is about a specific issue and not about general game discussion.

Regardless, you really should read the Posting Guidelines, as you've virtually assured yourself that this topic will be completely ignored by violating the first two guidelines.

As far as the absorb issue, this will be the last time I say this. WAIT AND SEE WHAT IS PUT IN GAME BEFORE YOU ALL GO CRAZY WORRYING.

[Ghost_Wolf]

Sangreal Pages You from (Hidden): i think that the spell absorb is stupid... mages are a hard class to train and they don't have enough hp to begin with at arch. all that they have is spells so why take that away? they already screwed the clerics over in this game... don't screw anything else over

(Was added for Sangreal on 1a.)


-To Trevayne:No one is going crazy over this, we are simply letting people know the thoughts and ideas on it that we have.Several people have said if this kills the mage class they will quit.No harm in putting thoughts down on here.besides that you looked at the major issue and did not even give a comment to the other bullets i laid out for everyone.

Edited by Ghost_Wolf, 03 September 2007 - 05:27 AM.

[Freek]

[b]I have to agree totally with Ghost_Wolf on the mage thing.. Mages have always been fine the ways they are.. Classes are stong against some and weak against others... Most of this depends on the race you choose... People make Ling Rangers why? Because they hit more often then others. People make Elf rangers why? To tank more magic dmg.. People buy dex mods to hit and dodge more often.. People buy wis mods to what. TANK MORE MAGIC DMG... Its already been shown someone who choses wis over dex will make them unroundable which is what staff are pushing for... I've said it once and I'll say it again.. If you are having problems with mages MAKE SOMETHING THAT KILLS THEM OR TANKS THEM.... Why modify a class when there are other classes that already kill them as easy as they kill other classes.. I don't need to wait to see how it will affect it.. There is no point of even putting it in... How are ya'll going to modify zerks and thiefs to stop clicking mages? Make them miss more? Oh wait you can do that if you make a class with HIGH DEX or BUY DEX MODS. There is already equipment that makes classes do more or less against others.. Absorb is not needed... Ya'll can say "quit complaing just because your a mage" all you want... I know people who don't even play 1a or don't even own a mage that think this idea is stupid... Staff want people who are the same lvl to not be able to round something else of equal level.... Then what is the point of even making diffrent classes? Why dont you make one class. Give it all the spells/abilitys there are ingame and let people use that since the Class advantage will be out the window.... Anyways there you go.

Edited by Trevayne, 04 September 2007 - 09:19 PM.

[Desendent]

I dont play 1alt much at all nor do i have a mage on there but i pretty much agree with what jordan said. Mages are clickable by a few classes so why not have a mage be able to kill a crit in 1 round. Every class has it's advantages and disadvantages and this will make it so mages don't appeal enough to even play them anymore in my opinion. That's just my two cents.

[Raylen]

I don't get it. Have there actually been any items put ingame that absorb magic?

Oh wait, no.

Now, if it turns out that an item is put in game that is unbalanced, then staff have shown in the past that they are quite happy to modify said items. Don't comment on something if you don't even know what's happening.

ty

Edited by Raylen, 03 September 2007 - 08:42 AM.

[Ghost_Wolf]

I love how people like to jump in the middle of your case when you make a theory and give calculations based on theory.You know, i don't think there is every i time i have posted something on this forum and i have not been flamed or trashed for it.THIS IS A THEORY BASED ON MAGE CLASS AND WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN TO THERE DAMAGE TOTALS IF SPELL ABSORB GOES THROUGH!.......get the picture now?

-Side note-Once again someone has looked at a fragment of the post and not the whole cart.*slaps*Read it all and post on the whole next time if you will?Thank you.

-Further side note-You think mages will be the only class effected?Druids are getting the shaft with this to, and i am waiting to see if all this bugs with clerics and paladins.Be funny to watch you try and heal someone and somehow the healing spell is absorb.*dies laughing.*

[Freek]

I don't get it. Have there actually been any items put ingame that absorb magic?

Oh wait, no.

Now, if it turns out that an item is put in game that is unbalanced, then staff have shown in the past that they are quite happy to modify said items. Don't comment on something if you don't even know what's happening.

ty

Do we look like were saying that theres absorb now? We are wondering why In the hell they need to put it in. No point to it. You don't even play 1a so jump off the boat.

[Raylen]

My apologies, Lord. But frankly yes, it does look like you are talking about it as though it already exists.

And as for jumping on people's calculations...do you have such a high opinion of yourselves that you think you are the only ones smart enough to figure all of the complicated mathematics out?

And as for all your posts being flamed. There's probably a good reason for that.

[Foxie]

I am currently working on spell absorbs. So just wait and see what is added and how i add it before moaning constantly.

[Throwback]

but i personally like to moan, just ask kier <3, ok all jokes aside....if this is put in then the h-elf mage and human mage will be the most useless char of all. they already have lower int than gnome and elf, add in spell absorb and my human will now beam for 40's...wth can i kill with that??? All i can do then is sit and wait for ppl to get mod then make an attempt to kill them, which prolly wont happen (ill prolly fizzle or get resisted cuz humans suck). Anyways, Emma how are u going to test out the absorb equip?? It just seems to me that such a drastic change, (already affecting the game, and it hasnt even been added) doesnt need to be implemented. Yeah, MD is mad that this is even being worked on as we have all the archs and lvl 31+ save for Lappa. So this affects the damage we incur more than that of Pandy/Ls simply because we have more of them that get affected. In my business class, i was taught of a concept called marginal benefit. What it states is that for someone poor as hell $1 will mean more to them than $1 will to a rich mofo. Mage absorb will mean 20938 x more to Pandy/Ls simply because there are only like 5 (Lappa/Wylow/Diablo/Ares/Abrasduel) that will even be affected. We in Md have more arch mages than the 5 experts and one arch that are actually outside of clan. This change will hurt MD, and the 23948 mages we have alot more than the 5 others that run around. So you will continue to get a barrage of complaints and such because the lack of other clans being affected simply looks like a shot at MD, not as an addition to the game. Want to affect the overall game??? Add smite/ass to a ranger or fighter, then u can even it out. Want fighters and rangers to be able to live, let them be able to use a full stam attack minus rapid fire of course.

[Freek]

Can ya'll not read? Im am posting why there is no need for it. Why add it now to affect two classes when the others get to stay the same. There is already things in the game that do the same thing that absorb will do why add more.

[Peacemaker]

Has everyone forgot that a mage has the spell haste and the armor spells? The only class i have even seen click a mage is a zerk...you might possibly get a thief to do so if you buff it up or it just plain gets lucky....the armor spells alone give mages unfair advantages.....then you got haste which unlike other classes gives you full stamina back instead of just partial...i say why not add the spell and even out the playing field right now mages own the 1alt server so why not give other classes chances to compete.

[Throwback]

1) u dont have to be a spelled thief to hit for 254 damage
2) Mages can't go out training with groups without it being an extreme hassle to provide them mana
3) w/o the armor spell and with 4 cr's and sg's my mage has 54 armor, ezpk
4)haste is a 2-3 round spell, good for pking, not for training
5)most mages train in ss or hedge maze, hedge maze is ample pking grounds so expecting to die pretty much goes with the turf
6)all i have seen is that it is being worked on, havent seen how the items will get into the game, shop buys, drops, craft??
7)There are only 2 aop mages, one is inactive because i dont play it and rob is busy, the other seems to be the brunt of mage bashing by those that die from him, so you guys always put Freek as your example as to why mages need to be "fixed" yet what will the other's do?? One mage is so good we need to make them all ez..??

[Freek]

1.) Most mages use Mana Shroud as the armor spell = only 40 armor more = 89 armor at arch with equips spelld.
2.) Haste cost 40 mana and you only get 3 more beams out of it. So you spend 40 mana to get 3 beams faster? And you only get 4 stam back.

So yeah. Druid stack 3 armor spells and have 150+ ez. And morph with gaeas and do 70ish damage and rarely miss.

Edited by Freek, 03 September 2007 - 09:11 PM.

[Peacemaker]

1) u dont have to be a spelled thief to hit for 254 damage
2) Mages can't go out training with groups without it being an extreme hassle to provide them mana
3) w/o the armor spell and with 4 cr's and sg's my mage has 54 armor, ezpk
4)haste is a 2-3 round spell, good for pking, not for training
5)most mages train in ss or hedge maze, hedge maze is ample pking grounds so expecting to die pretty much goes with the turf
6)all i have seen is that it is being worked on, havent seen how the items will get into the game, shop buys, drops, craft??
7)There are only 2 aop mages, one is inactive because i dont play it and rob is busy, the other seems to be the brunt of mage bashing by those that die from him, so you guys always put Freek as your example as to why mages need to be "fixed" yet what will the other's do?? One mage is so good we need to make them all ez..??

1. How often have you seen a thief click a mage without help from someone else?

2. spell absorb isnt going to effect the training

3. all classes that use armor spells are killed easier without them spelling up first (cleric, druid)

4. I thought the change of mages pking abilities was what was in question here not the training abilities i didnt know that someone absorbing part of your spell would make you train slower.

5. What does where you train have to do with the spell absorb?

6. would be interesting to see how they are introduced

7. Who says Freek is the example of why? Not everyone worships him you know.

[Freek]

1.) The reason YOU don't ever see a thief click a mage is because you are not in MD, Nepharious_Malhavoc/Lethal_Dose both have clicked mages. Lethal_Dose even brags about it time to time.

2.) He's talking about how hard it is to train a mage, Compared to the reason why they hit like they do.

3.) You think a Druid and Cleric at lvl 30 are easier to kill then a Mage (None of them spelled)? Druids have on avg 290-300 hp, Clerics depending on race have from 290-330. Mages no matter what race have 254, and less armor just givin through equips.

4.) You mention'd haste. "then you got haste which unlike other classes gives you full stamina back instead of just partial" Like I already stated Haste gives you back 3 beams and cost 40 mana - Not that great.

5.) Same reason as #2 since you dont know how to post 1 thing once.

6.) Might be.. But the reason people are posting is to show WHY IT IS NOT NEEDED.

7.) What other mage you have in mind?

[Ghost_Wolf]

jacob if you want to see what a theif can/can't do we can meet in Pete's one day and i can show you what an arch dwarf theif can hit you for.Infact ask lappa, freek and Puremounring.they have all felt the tip of my dagger on several occasions as well.More credit to the theif class please!Spell absorb EVEN though we have not seen it yet will become more of a hassle in the long run then i think staff should really deal with,but i guess we will have to wait and see then shall we not?

[Raylen]

Ok fine. Let's apply some logic.

Mages can get beaten by:

Zerkers
Thieves
Druids
Other mages
Clerics
Pallys (no really)

Now. We can take zerks out of the equation because they don't get equipment. Druids obviously will suffer from spell absorption in the same way. Clerics and pallys I think it unlikely that they will get spell absorbing armor due to the fact that they can heal.

So really, the only classes that are likely to benefit from this will be thieves, rangers and fighters. If you assume that before too long, most 30+ mages will have AoP and 50+ base armor, we can safely say that rangers and fighters NEED help against them. Thieves, well, I have never clicked anyone or been clicked on multi; I don't think it would cause mages too much trouble if thieves could have spell absorbing armor.

So essentially I'm saying there's no big deal.

[Freek]

Your saying take them out of the equation because they wont get the absorb armor. But obviously from what you just posted all those classes can beat a mage at the same lvl without absorb.. So why is it needed!?
Thats Logic.

[Scripto]

Im only going to post once,, since this is the 2nd.. not the first.. but 2nd time this has been posted...

You guys don't know the calcuations, nor how they work.. your "theory" is crack... again.. don't complain about things that have yet to be added.. atleast wait and see how they work....

As always.. when something new is put in.. its on a trial base.. so if they don't work out or unbalance to much.. then something will be changed...

So till then just sit back and enjoy that we still care enough to try and make the game better for you guys..

Would you rather us just stop completely and you guys can just deal with nothing new every again? Because thats whats will end up if you guys don't learn to wait and see what happens... before complaining about it...

And as a side note: Don't say "your not complain" but look at the post... your trying to make us not put it in before its even added... so in the big picture.. your complaining...

[Freek]

Your right we dont know how it works.. It's not like she asked to borrow someone mage and then when a clannie went in and hit a druid with sorb armor on, didnt see what it hit for with a certian amount of sorb on. Of course not. That would be wack. Not to mention http://www.nightmist...showtopic=24723 .. "4) Equipment now supports an extra stat for absorbing spell damage, for example, with the stat set to 0.1, 10% of the damage done by a spell towards you is absorbed by the item and doesn't hit you. Items support limited stacking, so if you had 2 items that both removed 20% of the damage, the total removed would actually be 36% (1-0.8*0.8). This also allows negative numbers for increased spell damage, for example -0.2 would mean an extra 20% damage is dealt" . Are JLH's calculations wack? Im writing down things i've witnessed and i've read about it already... And from what I've read and seen from ^^ I don't think its needed.

Edited by Freek, 04 September 2007 - 04:31 PM.

[Trevayne]

Library info for Null Amulet:
Armor base: 2, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, fighters, mages, paladins, rangers, thieves, pacifists, Description: The Null Amulet was designed to make mages and druids completely powerless because staff are mean, stupid bastards., Level needed to equip it: 3, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Absorb spell: 0.999.

Will be a 10% drop rate from giant rats.

[Throwback]

Memphis got the Null Amulet.

[Sleeping]

Memphis got the Null Amulet.

Entry not found in the library.

[Throwback]

[Peacemaker]

Library info for Null Amulet:
Armor base: 2, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, fighters, mages, paladins, rangers, thieves, pacifists, Description: The Null Amulet was designed to make mages and druids completely powerless because staff are mean, stupid bastards., Level needed to equip it: 3, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Absorb spell: 0.999.

Will be a 10% drop rate from giant rats.

GG LoL Staff 1 Cryers 0

[Walt]

I myself do not support the spell absorb, or items that absorb, whatever may be introduced. Just my two cents.

[Trevayne]

And I find it offensive that you use a forum avatar that depicts a man who poses as religious icons, disobeys the laws of physics and good taste, and supports human-duck copulation.