48 replies to this topic

[Adultery]

as the titles says... Iron Bombs.... obtained in thieves Guild for just under 4k. and guaranteed to do 100 damage. 

 

 

so clearly its come to a few players attentions that we have a player or two abusing these things to replace what little skill these players have with the ability to drop 5 bombs to kill almost anyone. 

 

so basically we either need to remove them from the game or raise to the price past the 10k each mark. 

 

 

 

 

this is Nightmist. not vietnam.

 

 

 

and yes im aware that one of the abusee's will likely flame this post. but he can suck my lemon tree!

[Banishment]

I dont mind bombs really... but 3k gold for 100 damage? It also can be used on NOPK squares like 1 north of North Gatehouse which is stupid.

Price should deffinately be raised if anything.

Edited by Banishment, 08 May 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[Wanted]

I don't know why Iron Bombs were added to the game. Probably one of the worst additions with very little thought going into it. 

 

Neither is it level restricted for use nor is it limited to who you can hit with it. Level 20 can sit somewhere covert with it, macro a lvl 40 and take down with 5-10 of them. Costing only 20-40K.  

 

We had Fire Bombs in game already which does 40 damage and much harder to obtain. I really don't know why iron bombs are so accessible and cause soo much more damage. 

[Migraine]

That and the whole Covert Bombing.. is just well dumb.. when you toss a bomb it needs to un-covert the player!

[Gnarkill]

Fire

If dropped in a room, it will damage each occupant for 8 damage.
If thrown directly at someone or accidentally used, does 40 damage.

 

Lightning

If dropped in a room, it will damage each occupant for 12 damage.
If thrown directly at someone or accidentally used, does 60 damage.

 

Thunder

If dropped in a room, it will damage each occupant for 20 damage.
If thrown directly at someone or accidentally used, does 100 damage.

 

I remember bombs back in multi(listed above) .. spending 20-40k on 1a for just 1 pk doesn't really seem that unbalanced to me if someone is willing to do it. That being said we used to have to create the bombs on multi and although some were simple creations the 100 dmg ones weren't so I can see why the complaints. I would say just move them to a neutral shop so everyone can use them and bump the price a bit but 10k each seems a bit much.

 

Although it could be tweaked a bit.. I like the idea of bombs on 1a overall.. it gives the level 40s something to keep in the back of their minds and it gives the lower levels a chance to actually payback a pk on someone that may be hunting them non stop while making them pay a good chunk out of their own pocket to do so.

 

Another thought that I had at the end of this.. what if the price stayed the same and it cost 1 stamina each time you threw one? so someone had to time the attacks right and couldn't just tap a macro and throw 14 bombs.

 

I also agree with automatically coming uncovert when you throw them.

Edited by Gnarkill, 08 May 2014 - 06:48 PM.

[Banishment]

Should be 5k

Edited by Banishment, 09 May 2014 - 01:33 AM.

[Adultery]

either way. they shouldnt be as easy to get as they are now. as joe said. a poorly thought up idea. 

[Cadabra]

Well you do pay 1m for the ring to even enter the place.

[Stig]

Being able to use bombs in the noPK part of the meadow is an exploit and not an intended feature. I'll see if I can get this patched, along with the player being revealed when they throw said item. Granted, if it is macroed and they are carrying several of them, it probably won't make much difference.

[Adultery]

Being able to use bombs in the noPK part of the meadow is an exploit and not an intended feature. I'll see if I can get this patched, along with the player being revealed when they throw said item. Granted, if it is macroed and they are carrying several of them, it probably won't make much difference.

 

 

if this is the most your gonna do about these things. then you miss the point. 

[ice_cold]

Iron Bombs are decently powerful. They were originally 1200 gold, however no one was using them until AJ decided to use them on furious. At that time I recommended the price be raised to 3400 gold. Killing some zerks with them would cost around 30,000 gold, which is far more then nightshades would cost, which can be crafted fairly easily for free, /examined for free, and dropped by armoire for free, as well as being bought in chronos for a very low amount. The average kill costs about 10,200 to 13,600 gold. Though, all that aside, no one would be complaining about them if certain people would have minded themselves rather then trying to create problems on a game that had only seen 10 pks in a year. If the level cap and nopk areas were fixed so bombs didn't work, I see no problem with them. It boils down to getting 15k out of the economy per kill with them, and if people don't provoke others, they wouldn't even be used.

[Stig]

This is the point. While they should not be used in noPK areas, it costs a hefty lump of gold to kill a player this way, so if you want to abuse it, well, I'll keep an eye out for former assassin aristocrats asking for alms at Arilin Cathedral. Granted, I will keep an eye on it and lower the damage or raise the price slightly. The Iron Bombs are meant to be the special item for Grandmaster Thieves, like how Mages get Elderglow Potions.

[ice_cold]

Iron Bombs have also been used far less then Elderglow Potions, people use the druid leveling area a lot, grogs have been used sparingly but that might change, and people have been using ration packs sparingly which might also change. If the price is raised too much or if the damage is lowered too much, that just means it will become another useless item in game and people will complain thieves dont get the same type of bonus other 35+ characters get. I guess it's a time honored complaint though, x is too powerful nerf it, x is now not powerful enough and everyone talks crap about it. Just like how people complain about thieves, although I'm pretty sure people have realised recently what their best use is.

[Gnarkill]

switch 1a to nopk!!! jk jk.. couldn't resist

 

I think the situation is being handled correctly and from reading what Stig and Ice_Cold posted in the last couple replies I would agree with them.

Edited by Gnarkill, 09 May 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Adultery]

I don't mind the bombs personally, but they seem a tad rediculous. You can kill 10 monsters(or rob 10) and make 10-100k exp and cost someone else 10-40 million exp in a couple of minutes.

 

Shades are just as stupid but have a chance to miss, and a chance to be defended by other characters at the examine/sdg etc, bombs you have no defense, short of holding heal macroes/pots or "keyword" botting. This is the reason I suggest iron bomb require an iron bar so there is a chance to defend the farming of the item.

 

secondly a pk death affects character scores and is basically unblockable and it shouldn't be that way.

 

thirdly the GM items are basically out of character as its not the designated characters using them more often than not. I know theres no way to lock the items to the classes they are designed for, but they should be.

 

lastly, this flawed system will be used to cease training exploits on ignorant people. It takes a couple minutes to get a few bombs and take a weeks worth of progress from anyone.

 

 

 

P.S. How many times bombing a staff mortal will it take to get this nerfed? page me with bets..../eyes

 

 

supported.

 

 

anytime stig logs on his mortal he should be bombed over and over. it'll get changed quick.

[ice_cold]

That sentiment is exactly why people are using them. Play nice and you'll have no reason to complain.

[Cadabra]

Dont train in the open or in easy to reach places and you wpnt get bombed. Open yhat door and someone will step in.

You pay 1 Million for the ring to access the bombs, is that not costly enough? Apart from me and maybe AJ nobody plans to use the ring for actually leveling. Lol.

I agree nopk areas should be edited but thats it.

[Adultery]

alright. lol keep the bombs the way you got them now. 

 

just dont complain when someone drops countless bombs on stoners anonymous or whatever lame ass clan your running lol 

[ice_cold]

You can't drop them in town, unless its an arena.

[Gaddy]

So sysops' for 1-Alt have the official stance of, "Get along with everyone, or any character with access to this shop can troll you with death bombs. This has to be done to keep balance for class shops..."?

That reasoning and attitude is disappointing.

[ice_cold]

My stance is get along with everyone and they won't be used, I'm not a sysop. Oracle and Scripto haven't replied; though Stig has replied, in no way does he ever say get along with people and you won't have a problem. Stig just a few posts up said he'll keep an eye on it. You can get approximately 25 kills with bombs for every 340,000 gold you spend.

[ice_cold]

I post with google chrome and have no problems. 

 

The other bombs aren't used because of the difficulty of crafting them, making them a useless item. There's no reason that stopping people from camping is a bad thing, switch your spots up and no problems. Back in the day, there was never issues when someone would come out of orc caves with 200k, run into grasping vines, have their party wiped out. It's been an aspect of the game forever, the real issue here seems to be people have gotten comfortable with treating other people like crap with no repercussions. People have forgotten how the game use to be played. You piddy should know that Nightshades are a given pk, especially if you're packing 14 of them, as well as how easy they are to obtain.

[ice_cold]

A think you hit the nail on the head. The right people will die. Be nice and you won't be pk'd, by us at least. The majority of people in stoners have shown great restraint by not hitting just anybody in pande. I personally have passed up a multitude of pks. Also, it seems the only people with issues with them, are the people who are dying to them in pande, who started messing with other people for absolutely no reason other then to cause problems. Nicole hasn't pk'd anyone in years, however when she was at cg she was killed by Pok/Heart. Chris left pande, however what did it matter, I was running almost all the boss trips at the time on the server as the only non-pande member in game, when people started coming back to the game and were in novice, no one messed with them, no one outside of rick messed with me, and that didnt last long, but when chris left people started to say well even though everyone has been working together, lets go pk him. Apparently it's those people's perogative to kill him as he was no longer in clan, however AJ was the first one to use bombs, and when they were only 1200 gold. When Rich came back to game, he wasn't pking anyone, however Pok/Heart killed him while a pande member was helping him kill a boss. Once again their perogative to kill people, however the ramifications can obviously be seen as to what those choices bring. There's now pking and people are upset as to how its happening. Nightshades have no negative effects right now, a couple years ago there were the same complaints as iron bombs, however once people started playing nicely that talk went away didn't it? Have you also seen the decline in the player base since all of this started, I certainly have, we went from nearly 30 people logging on and playing together, to almost immediately 5-12 with a few jumps to 16 or so. People don't like where the game is obviously headed, however the few troublemakers who started this, and are all in pande and couldn't care less who logs on. The antisocial behavior only furthers the games end. The real issue aren't the iron bombs, but the people who play.

[ice_cold]

The game hasn't been stagnant for a long time, it might be for you, but the game itself hasn't. More people were logging on at any given time then the last few years. New areas have been added to the game along with new bosses. A new leveling system was added to the game. New quests have been run. New equipment has been added. More people were working together to do extremely rarely done bosses since the inception of 1a. A large amount of items have also been added for the new leveling system, however most items are only used by 3 different classes (i think the highest is 4). New abilities and spells have been added to classes. In nothing that I just said, do I feel the game has been stagnant. I could see if maybe only 1 or 2 of those things were mentioned, then maybe, but thats a lot of stuff. With all that, there's been behind the scenes changes as well, tweaking this mob, tweaking that area, ect ect to make 1a more playable. What more do you want?

 

Bombs don't help what cause? Help the game from being stagnant? I would state if that's your thought, I would steer you in the direction of pking making the game stagnant, not the iron bombs. Iron Bombs are tools, they're a symptom, not a cause. The only person who was pk'd for something they 'said' would be rick whos profile says something about me. In that note however, he realistically started all this, I had never pk'd him until he killed me when i brought him on a boss trip, when the boss was almost dead. This is really just a continuation of what he started. Besides him you have Pauly, when my clan was attacked numerous times, I found the first pande member and hit them, me and pauly have buried the hatchet and I haven't pk'd him since then. Everyone else I personally have hit were people who tried to attack me, tried to attack nicole, pk'd or attacked my clan members. You can say I should be going after cheaters, but why would I or anyone else allow for someone to make them lose xp without provocation and say yeah that's cool bro attack me allow you want. I can attack cheaters if I want to, but what do I care, they aren't hurting me by cheating, I'll continue to play the way I want to and they can do what they want. It's staff's job to monitor and punish them, not me.

 

I understand you don't like this version of nightmist very much, everytime we happen to have any type of conversation it ends up you complaining about something. The problem with the multi-version of the leveling system is that people who randomly attack people for no reason, I've already pointed a few out, start alienating those people, and then the boss runs they would go on to get said items for leveling no longer works correctly. The system in place makes far more sense in that for most parts 1 person or very small groups can get said leveling items. The leveling system is still in progress as well. In your idea something that takes 8+ people for a 1a game making more sense then 1-3 people getting stuff doesn't make sense to me.

 

Players can sit and throw bombs all day if they want, making people lose xp, however those are the people who people should be going after, not the people who are just trying to play the game. Joker who got run off the server, dude never hurt nicole by using an autoroller, however pok who pk'd rush at cg when she was just killing the boss minding her own business did. If iron bombs and nightshades were removed, it would only make it so that 1 person couldn't defend themselves, instead leaving the cleric and ranger/zerk/thief combo or even a lone zerk/thief/mage to be able to kill people without them being able to get back. Oddly enough, a paladin cannot win a fight against anything when people are pking.

 

I'll say it again, everyone can single out iron bombs as a problem without trying to find the cause of the problem, but we all know why people are pking. That should be the real issue here, not iron bombs.

[Gaddy]

ice_cold, the way you write about this concerns me.

It reads like you worked to get this item added to the game so that people could take revenge on players that annoy you. Like a group has formed that dislikes a couple of people, and that click is trying to abuse that person out of the game for not "getting along with us."

 

It is one thing to decide to PK a person or clan because you don't like them, but as a member of the development team, adding content to the game isn't something that should be associated with your own play style or issues. Developing content should not be a method of "disciplining" people you don't like, even if most people don't like him/her. 

[ice_cold]

[4/24/2014 6:01:01 PM] dannynicolej: i have a worry sir

[4/24/2014 6:01:09 PM] Staff: Hmmm?

[4/24/2014 6:01:17 PM] dannynicolej: iron bombs dont cost enough

[4/24/2014 6:01:53 PM] Staff: Hmmm.

[4/24/2014 6:01:58 PM] dannynicolej: i have 13 of them in invetory and can kill like 3 people for the same cost of a nightshade, which you need time and effort to build up, or 15k per, and it takes 2-5 shades to kill people

[4/24/2014 6:02:11 PM] Stafft: Hmmm, interesting point.

 

That's a personal conversation me and a staff member have had, well before anything popped off. You of all people Gaddy should know some stuff is behind the scenes. I had no part in getting any guild item outside of Elderglow Potions added to game as I figured they would be useful to mages. Not only were Iron Bombs not added by me, not only did I not choose the price for them, and even though I like to use them, I brought up concerns about them well before there were any issues. My arguement is based on why this is happening and not about Iron Bombs themselves. There should be no need for this to be brought up to the players attention. Thieves were complained about heavily for a long time, once they got changed people complained, and have complained for a very long time. The game didn't see any use of thieves for a very long time, now there's multiple thieves on. Players will complain about stuff.

 

 

And to you piddy, stating nicole was killed because of me is rediculous. You can say crystal didn't attack, however I was there the whole time, from when Alec told them to attack him, to crystal missing him twice, to him being killed, to you saying LMAO twice, not once. You can spin that story, but you apparently didn't know I was there the whole time. And like I said, my clannies got attacked. Andi got attacked twice and chris got killed 3 times, it was time to step in.

 

Beyond that, this topic has gotten extremely off topic, I would recommend we stick to Iron Bombs. I would postulate there's been thousands of pk's on 1-alt since it's inception by teaming up, using nightshades, and by straight clicking people; while theres only been about 25 kills by iron bombs. I would also like to point out how piddy himself gave my level 1 a pk on it's list when he threw a fire bomb at it a few years ago. If this becomes an overwhelming problem, a staff member has already said he would change them, though at this time I would ask if 25 pks constitutes a real problem. My biggest issue with them is you can pk in a training arena (something I have not done, yet pande members did to joker months ago) and people in nopk areas like the grassy meadow. That problem would have to be solved by JLH though.

 

You Piddy can question my audacity as to my complaints about you pking back in the day a thousand or so times, when i use iron bombs to kill people and have pk'd less then 40 times the entire time I've played, but keep in mind you're argueing against bombs and the craziness of being able to use them when you yourself have pk'd people in arenas and characters outside of the pking level restriction. You are the kettle and I am the pot.

[ice_cold]

So during a clan war, you were upset because someone was keeping you from coverting when you could have run 11 squares to the part of the grassy meadow that is no-drag and spawns no monsters. So what you did was exploit a bug knowingly and took that person out with a bomb who in no way provoked you other then sit on a square so they could watch the pking. Not only did you do this, you did not make a post about it on forum as being wrong. You also killed Joker in the arena using bombs if I am correct, or it was another pande member, at which time they also did not bring this up. If that's not correct then please do explain what I'm missing, however now that your clan is being pk'd during a clan war in the same way you yourself has used them, you want to bring the attention of staff to the problem on forums.

 

I did not reset mr_pirate by the way, mr_pirate has gone through multiple iterations and you had killed version 1 or 2 while mr_pirate is on its 4th version (different characters/stats/race/ect)

[xxx]

Piddy I love you.

[Adultery]

The game hasn't been stagnant for a long time, it might be for you, but the game itself hasn't. More people were logging on at any given time then the last few years. New areas have been added to the game along with new bosses. A new leveling system was added to the game. New quests have been run. New equipment has been added. More people were working together to do extremely rarely done bosses since the inception of 1a. A large amount of items have also been added for the new leveling system, however most items are only used by 3 different classes (i think the highest is 4). New abilities and spells have been added to classes. In nothing that I just said, do I feel the game has been stagnant. I could see if maybe only 1 or 2 of those things were mentioned, then maybe, but thats a lot of stuff. With all that, there's been behind the scenes changes as well, tweaking this mob, tweaking that area, ect ect to make 1a more playable. What more do you want?

 

Bombs don't help what cause? Help the game from being stagnant? I would state if that's your thought, I would steer you in the direction of pking making the game stagnant, not the iron bombs. Iron Bombs are tools, they're a symptom, not a cause. The only person who was pk'd for something they 'said' would be rick whos profile says something about me. In that note however, he realistically started all this, I had never pk'd him until he killed me when i brought him on a boss trip, when the boss was almost dead. This is really just a continuation of what he started. Besides him you have Pauly, when my clan was attacked numerous times, I found the first pande member and hit them, me and pauly have buried the hatchet and I haven't pk'd him since then. Everyone else I personally have hit were people who tried to attack me, tried to attack nicole, pk'd or attacked my clan members. You can say I should be going after cheaters, but why would I or anyone else allow for someone to make them lose xp without provocation and say yeah that's cool bro attack me allow you want. I can attack cheaters if I want to, but what do I care, they aren't hurting me by cheating, I'll continue to play the way I want to and they can do what they want. It's staff's job to monitor and punish them, not me.

 

I understand you don't like this version of nightmist very much, everytime we happen to have any type of conversation it ends up you complaining about something. The problem with the multi-version of the leveling system is that people who randomly attack people for no reason, I've already pointed a few out, start alienating those people, and then the boss runs they would go on to get said items for leveling no longer works correctly. The system in place makes far more sense in that for most parts 1 person or very small groups can get said leveling items. The leveling system is still in progress as well. In your idea something that takes 8+ people for a 1a game making more sense then 1-3 people getting stuff doesn't make sense to me.

 

Players can sit and throw bombs all day if they want, making people lose xp, however those are the people who people should be going after, not the people who are just trying to play the game. Joker who got run off the server, dude never hurt nicole by using an autoroller, however pok who pk'd rush at cg when she was just killing the boss minding her own business did. If iron bombs and nightshades were removed, it would only make it so that 1 person couldn't defend themselves, instead leaving the cleric and ranger/zerk/thief combo or even a lone zerk/thief/mage to be able to kill people without them being able to get back. Oddly enough, a paladin cannot win a fight against anything when people are pking.

 

I'll say it again, everyone can single out iron bombs as a problem without trying to find the cause of the problem, but we all know why people are pking. That should be the real issue here, not iron bombs.

i did pk you. on a lvl 36 ranger, a class that doesnt pk. you then chased me around with nightshades for the next month.

 

your a cabbage. how couldn't I? no one wanted you on that trip. i was the only one with balls enough to do it. and even after you started chasing me with shades i still pk'd you a few times. without needing shades (i go hard bro!) 

 

everything about you reeks sketchy. i may be an arsehole. but at least ill be an arsehole to your "face" while youll plot against people behind their back.

 

your anti-social, and you have no place in this game. everyday someone else see's that. even if you wanted to be a decent person, people still wouldnt like you. 

 

 

 

but if you wish to keep coming at me. im here. ready willing and waiting. 

 

PANDE. OUT!

Edited by Adultery, 12 May 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Chronic]

Piddys signature says it all!