21 replies to this topic

[EvilDognapot]

Hey since pk restrictions seem to be permanent and gold traning is gone for good, we should be able to open up the SDG for everyone (me) again. Cyric put the limits there for three reasons that I know of, and they are all currently non-issues.

1. Domination by high level players. Current pk restrictions are accomadation enough, only lvl 20 players would be in any danger, and they currently represent a true minority of players when we disclude players who don't already have arch'd alts to even the score if a lvl 20 were to be pk'd. In addition, the spoils of the SDG are so devalued, while the area itself is so deserted that anyone who wishes monopolize the SDG would be unable to get any great value out of it.

2. Design for lower level players. Currently low level players (noobs, not low level alts of experienced players) represent a profoundly small minority, which is also protected by pk restrictions. In fact, more experienced players are more likely to help out these un-pkable players than anything else.

3. Gold Training. It is currently impossible to train with gold.

I don't play that much but I enjoyed wandering through the Scarlet Daggers Guild, and would enjoy wandering through it again. It was fun.

[joanna]

Leave it as it is, I trained a party of 3 mages and a cleric (13 con cleric btw, my first ever ) for that area to get the NS's, and archmasters would just ruin it

[EvilDognapot]

ruin it how? you're no more in danger than anywhere else, and you can practically count the active players (not sitting at the gatehouse) on one hand.

[deadman]

Ok there is no possible need for you to go into the Sdg besides the fact that you want to go in there just to go in there. It was designed for the lower level thieves as a training place, hence the Scarlet Dagger being for low level thieves. You would be able to breeze through the place no problem at all almost one clicking everything, and would be able to make a huge monopoly of nightshade elixirs as well. It's pointless for you to go in there. If you want to go in that bad just make another thief.

[Redheart]

I agree with T.
make a low level, buy one or whatever.
Of course people always have to be so freaking annoying on this game.
Buy a low level or roll one for gawds sake.

[EvilDognapot]

Guys, the scarlet dagger is only usefull for level 12 theives. Once you hit level thirteen you can buy an iron staff and hit just as well. After that someone could still hit the crystal giant with it, but that's not exactly usefull to anyone.

So what do you think the demand is on the scarlet dagger? There's two up there right now, and how long have they been there? Even at that stagnant price, if you can make 5k, you can get it yourself.

Now what's the market like for nightshade elixirs? 43 of them up there, if I was to try and sell them, I wouldn't have a monopoly, I'd have lunchmoney. There's hardly any demand, until they're only slightly more expensive than healing potions.

So basic supply and demand here would dictate that if I had a monopoly, I'd still have to price the items to their limited demand. I'd have to make the Scarlet daggers affordable to level 12 theives who have no alts and just started playing the game (profitability!). Then I'd have to price the Elixirs low enough to appeal to players who would want to USE them. Not just people who would buy them and put them back up with the other 43 that rarely sell. Maybe a thousand each or less.

So what's the downside? Every player is capable of getting this stuff themselves, so that forces that forces the actual VALUE of items down to where the price represents a greater value and convenience than just getting the stuff themselves. Considering it's an easy area the cost of doing it yourself is rather low, and likewise the practical value of the items, regardless of their source.

[deadman]

All you stated is that things will stay the same, and just further emphasized that there is no need for you to be allowed up there. Bravo Bravo!

[EvilDognapot]

No. I stated that the value of any items that could be had in the SDG is primarily determined by the ease of availability, and by allowing all levels entry to the SDG, the cost will soon meet its value. Considering that the area only takes a few adepts to complete, the value is rather low. Instead of paying the 20k for a nightshade elixir, or 5k for a scarlet dagger, most people can just go to the SDG for much less. That's the value of the item. So of course things will stay the same, they never changed. People who want scarlet daggers and nightshade elixirs get them for themselves on different crits and then sell them or hand them to their alts.

It's hard to understand whether you're arguing or just really like to post nonsense. The argument in the OP was that the level restriction is meaningless and NM would be just as much, if not more fun, without it.

But perhaps you don't understand how that equates to removing them. As the OP stated, the level restirction was implemented for specific reasons that, today, are unnecessary. Read my posts, I covered them.

Edited by EvilDognapot, 05 November 2007 - 06:23 AM.

[deadman]

It's also unecessary for the level restriction to be removed as well. There is no need for it and never will be a need for it. The only thing I can really see is that you want to go in there, and since it is something you want to do they should just do it for you. It doesn't work that way.

[Throwback]

I feel that because the area was designed for low levels, 25 damage traps and arena monsters, that opening it up for all would make the area even more obsolete. Allowing lvl 20+ would just increase the chances of a lower lvl unexperienced player missing things that may be there but not at the time because of camping ( say a lvl 30 party goes there and camps the armoire), a noob may not get to see the armoire simply because its not in to see it spawn. Sure this can be done with lvl 20's, but lvl 30's in an area not designed for them doesnt make sense to me. Whether the game would be affected who knows, just think of it this way, do adults go play in the kiddy palace at burger kings and mcdonald's? Not often because thats just the way it is.

Edited by Throwback, 05 November 2007 - 06:39 AM.

[EvilDognapot]

Just because an area is designed with a certain level in mind doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed by higher or lower levels, nor does it imply that other levels would diminish the experience of it's intended participants. The restriction is in place now to prevent gold training to level 30, pking noobs, and dominating the drop. None of these are issues anymore, and I'd like to run through there with my crits for fun.

Waddaya guys have against fun?

[deadman]

The only one of those that is not an issue is the pk part, but even so there is no need for it. If you want to run through there then get a thief that is within the level restrictions to do so. It's pointless for the cap to be changed

[EvilDognapot]

Are you trying to not make sense? the other issues are gold training (removed from the game) and cornering the items (which don't sell because they're easier to get yourself).

[Scripto]

Don't know why this is even a topic..

Not going to happen...

You want to go back in..

Make some low lvl crits...

End of discussion..

I win...

~Scripto

[deadman]

Thank you Mark maybe that will get it through his head that this is a pointless change, and he only wants it done because he thinks everything should be done if he wants it done.

[Raylen]

meh, was gonna post but it was just a bunch of nuts. just make the guy staff and solve all your problems ty.

[Ryuku]

"Desperate times call for desperate measures."

Of course, making certain areas almost like new to some people while not effecting gameplay, trying to bring back a spark to players and have no bad consequences.

Man, that IS a bad idea.

..

Look deeper into things, you'll usually get better answers.


PS: I hate thinking simply, it just, doesn't work.

[shomer]

nightshades do sell for 5k in shop, you could make quite a profit camping them with arches

[joanna]

SDG is one of best designed areas in nm. PKing up there was only really an issue when people could power train in the sleeping quarters, hoping to snag a quick 500k.
I memorised the map for that area and thought is was a LOT larger than it really was, due to all the ktps, drop traps, secret doors when i actually saw a printed map of it i was like omg its tiny!
Why would you want archmasters up there? The first sylva pwning you?

[EvilDognapot]

Don't know why this is even a topic..

Not going to happen...

You want to go back in..

Make some low lvl crits...

End of discussion..

I win...

~Scripto

I don't know why things that are added/changed are topics. "Let's make something toggle-able! to save two seconds!", or "lets make names to make us feel like we accomplished something!" However, I do know why there's hardly more than a dozen players on either server most of the time. It's not because they're upset that new areas aren't made every thursday or because the letter "K" isn't toggle-able. The game was much more alive before the majority of changes/updates that we have now were conceived. "Not going to happen" is OK, the only thing I've suggested that ever happened was "open the door to the casino!" But the variety of topics that aren't going to happen, and the mindset that they shouldn't be bothered with discussion is why you preside over the NM's death rattle. You say, "why bother?", and I say "why not?" So what did you actually win here?

And Shomer, refer to my post on actual value. You make a profit because you don't originally pay for the item, but to make consistent sales you need to price it for less than than the perceived cost of going halfway through a noob area and hitting a chest.

[Gaddy]

If I am ever on and see you; I'll teleport you about the area upon your directions, if you'd like.

I don't think it will be unlocked for all levels simply due to the design, which intended it for low levels...there isn't a lot of reason to allow high levels into the area since there is nothing even close to challenging for a level 26 or higher thief.

[EvilDognapot]

Cool. It's a fun place for all levels as far as I'm concerned.

Just for the sake of arguement, there's some scarlet daggers up sale now, at like 2k. pretty cheap. Noob affordable. Whoever put those up is probably the kingpin of of the SDG, living like jabba the hut.