149 replies to this topic

[Ryuku]

The point is, even though paci's were meant to be a solo class, and not interfere with other class, they cannot do that. The reason it was done with pacifist is so people need help in doing it, and couldn't log 50 alts and do it with ease.

[alone]

How many people do you think would cry and complain if it took lets say, 20 characters to complete (with relative ease), but to get all 20 there, it took you near enough 8 hours of game play - Just to see the final boss..? I really don't think people would put up with it.

[Perfection]

Geez!!
Do the area alone, i have (dun ask i won't say how)

First 2 floors of the place could use some change though, since the museum monsters got altered the best place for a pacifist's to make gold or train is like vampire bats. (gets way boring)
Suggestion, maybe make Ibis Statue's and Imperial Mummy's drop twice as much gold as they do now (so it's the tougher monsters u need to fight to make the gold)
still a challange but makes it a little more worth while to explore.

As for the game becoming flooded with the drop (Shaman's Mask) u still need to get past the Mummifed Pharaoh which self heals , then the maze to find and kill the rune mummys for access to the magma chamber which is riddled with traps, so it's still a hugh task that takes hours and hours of game play.


Grats and thanks you's to staff and anyone who worked on and designed the area , i had a blast completeing it.

[alone]

It's hardly difficult to do solo, it just takes brains.

[Crane]

Lich and myself are now in the process of reviewing the monsters in the pyramid (note, the bosses are unlikely to change)

I agree that the Mummified Pharaoh should be the way it is - if you cannot group together a few Pacifists to take him down, it is possible to do solo... it just takes brains, as Alone said.

[Crane]

A good proportion of the monsters in the Pacifist-only area have been modified so that some are easier for lower level Pacifists to take out and drop more gold in relation to their HP. Bear in mind that we will have to clean the pyramid of the current monsters before those with the new gold amounts spawn.

[Lich]

I will get a cleaning crew together if i can crane and see if we can at least get the first and second floors cleared, As you know those are the only floors i saw needed a change...smiles... and thanks for hearing what i had to say when i brought this to you.

[Momba]

I will get a cleaning crew together if i can crane and see if we can at least get the first and second floors cleared, As you know those are the only floors i saw needed a change...smiles... and thanks for hearing what i had to say when i brought this to you.

1ST floor cleared

[Lich]

Thanks momba. I just found out what has been changed, Unfortunetly Not everything was put in so the place is still a bit to hard. But oh well not my game.

[Oracle]

What was done is still a large improvement, we'll see how it goes over a few weeks like this.

[Lich]

I just answered you on MSN oracle since i dont beleive that it should be disscussed on here because it defeats the purpose of searching a new area.

[Oracle]

Well thanks again to Lich and Crane's discussions.
They are still not happy enough has been changed but for now this is how JLH wishes time to test.

Any feedback is appriciated as ever

[Stigmata]

I havn't actually viewed the area myself, nor do I really know what it includes so this advice could be irrelevent-

But as a little bit of advice - Trying to cater an area for a single character is extremely difficult when you consider that it is possible for the paci's to group together. Try replacing some of the challenging monsters with puzzles and sub-quests, where players must find a hidden passage using clues scattered around the area etc. This way it's possible to complete the area with just 1 character, but should still provide ample challenge.

[Oracle]

Ste, I know it's not puzzles in the context you directly meant but if you're not aware, there is a series of areas, covered with traps, from which you must collect certain items from certain boss' to proceed into the next area.

Is it not partly a good thing to have another hard area, (there aren't many), which you can't just run through to the boss, kill it and run home again? Specially being for Pacifists, the lonely role play class that can't do a lot of what the other classes can.

[Stigmata]

I think you misunderstand me wes, i'm simply suggesting using puzzles/traps/hidden passageways to make an area more difficult to complete, as opposed to using boss monsters.

Obviously there are other areas like this but the guys (crane etc) seem to be having trouble balancing the monsters as it is possible for multiple pacifists to hit them at once (even though the area is designed to be completed alone).

It must be extremely difficult to design monsters for an area intended for 1 character, when it is possible to find more than 1 teaming together.

Hope that cleared what I meant up.

[Trevayne]

The problem with puzzles, traps, and hidden passageways is that once they have been completed once, they do not pose the same challenge the second time around. For an area that has a rather large drop at the end (which sells for 1mil+), making the area easier to complete on subsequent attempts will quickly lead to economic problems as well as the problem of players completing the area after being given the puzzle solutions and maps by other players.

That being said, I'd love to see more puzzles and secret areas put into game.

[Ryuku]

But as more masks are going out like this, the price will go down evantually.

Can someone help me or tell me how to do it myself, my brains are not very...good.

[Crane]

The third floor of the Pacifist Area, which can only be accessed with a key dropped by a self-healing boss, is a large scavenger-hunt like puzzle, with many false doors that lead to death traps.

[Stigmata]

Well spotted trev, I did consider that actually and may have a solution -

Say you need a certain mumble password to get through a door. I'm sure it could be easily arranged to have that word changed randomly each day from a list, and even change the whereabouts to the clues.

For example the clue could be some writing on a wall, which could change location randomly to a different square in the area each day.

[Oracle]

That is an interesting plan.

[Crane]

Only 9 masks exist in the game at the moment - I agree they should be very hard to get, which they are due to the self-healing boss (Mummified Pharaoh) and the scavenger hunt beyond him. Random mumble key sounds interesting, or even just a regular, static one...

[Stigmata]

As mentioned static mumbles provide challenge only once, then it's a straight forward run through.

[Trevayne]

/nod Stigmata.

Is it possibly currently to change room descriptions, mumbles, and the like based on a timer? I'm not aware of that happening anywhere in game. Roaming NPCs is the closest that I can see that might make it happen within the existing game architecture.

[Stigmata]

That's also a good idea if I am reading it correctly - Having a npc roam the level is something myself and ex-staff member Wodan were experimenting with just before we left staff actually, we had a Giant that literally roamed a worn path of around 50 squares long......something similar could be set up to give clues for a password with roaming npc's like you said.

As for a timer, I'm pretty sure nothing like that exists for descriptions, but the same system with the /examine command could definately be used, but instead of respawning an item it could change the desc.

[Momba]

I spent alot of time in this area this morning clearing monsters for the new monsters to spawn. This is a well thought out area, but pourly programed. The monsters are far to hard to be concidered monsters to train off of.

With other areas where monsters are extremely hard we have the advantage of many characters to defeat them with. This paci area has many many hard monster, but we can only attack on 1 character and are limited to 12 forms of mana and tribute. To kill just 1 Imperial Mummy it took me just under 1 Lodestone. Hardly worth wasting the time to kill them concidering you basically make no profit in doing so.

For low levels if they stay in the first part of the area they can kill Zombies and Ghoul and fair well with keeping mana levels as well as making some decent gold.

This area IMO is pretty worthless. All the work that went into the monsters was pretty much wasted. Most don't even stop to look at a monster. The riddles have been solves, maps passed out and now all people do is run straight to the boss for the drop not even giving a second look at the monsters.

I would suggest making this area in some ways like the museum. With the levels getting prgressively harder. Not starting out at super hard and progressing to extremely hard. The boss should remain the same.

I could go on for days but I feel I have wasted enough time.

Edited by Momba, 02 October 2004 - 11:06 PM.

[Perfection]

It's hardly difficult to do solo, it just takes brains.

Ya don't say.

[Crane]

Believe me Momba, I did try by best with the monsters, but JLH has the final word with how they are to behave and such.

[Perfection]

Changes are ok i guess, monsters on the first floor are still a bit tough, any pacifist that hasn't the Subdue and Shield Self spells isn't likly to train past the Zombies and Ghouls though.
I'm not sure what is intended from this area (was thinking a new place besides bats to train pacifist's) but like isn't anywhere in the game (any class) u go and kill stuff/train, "play the game" meant to earn u gold aswell as exp so u can buy the spells and items u require as u get higher in level's.
Basically the way the area is now once the Pharaoh's Pendant is obtained u/i can run straight in and fight/kill Ganymede, there is even the last (Red Rune) for sale on the web site, and there is nothing on the second floor worth killing for gold or is to tough for lower levels to train on, and the first floor is still a bit "savage" for lower levels.
I agree with Momba where he says "quote" 'The monsters are far to hard to be concidered monsters to train off of. "end quote" most definatly true.
I say pacifist out there keep killing bats for now
This other junk about putting in /mumbles and or /examines, blah, takes a day of so playing to complete as it is (more than 6-7 hours straight from the start) way longer if ya gunna get a Pharaoh's Pendant for a group of pacifist.

Anyways although others don't seem to think so good work on the area guys.

[Acrimonia]

I went down for a little bit and my suggestion is to have the monsters drop mana more often. This would help

[Lich]

I find it funny crane everything we said, has been said but not by us and people wonder why i was so mad about this...lmao.