78 replies to this topic

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

Yeah lets stay on topic...

I would like to see some staff input on this though, it seems like most are for it coming into 1a

[Scripto]

I have though about this off and on.. not sure where I stand on it tho.. if I was to add it to the game it would be very costly, we talking 15-20 if not closer to 25, AND would be at the very least level 35

[Throwback]

bring devastate back and ill play again.......not i'd buy walt devastate tho

[Autek]

I'd think most people would rather pay 10m on a vamp weapon with a high base that they can use on all of their characters rather than on a spell that is permanent on one character, a mana sucker, and is only worthwhile pvp. . .

So what if he/she wins some moshes and gets pks with it, that's all they'll ever be able to do. I could be the minority, but I certainly wouldn't pay any more than 10m for it, and probably not even that much.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

I agree with autek... I fail to see the point in making it so costly just to pk/win a couple moshes with.... if it was 20-25 mill no way id waste the time/effort gettin it.... BUT if it was around 10 mill I would very likely consider Devastate over a Cobalt

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 26 March 2008 - 02:35 AM.

[Consumed]

ya i agree with autek and jono too.. if devestate was 10 mill im not sure that everyone that could buy it would bother anyways.. i think most would opt to buy a cobalt..i mean...i think id rather a weapon that i can use on all my crits for bosses and moshes and ez training...so making devestate 25million would be kinda pointless...

Edited by Consumed, 26 March 2008 - 05:22 AM.

[Cuban]

Honestly i don't see why it couldn't be like 500k-1mil in price it serves absolutely no purpose other than pk/moshes, it would just be a neat thing for mages to have.

[deadman]

At that low a price it would easily overpower the mages ingame, and we are just starting to get past that stage.

[Consumed]

ya..that would be way to low.. i would have to get me a mage if that were the case lol..but anyways.. Devastate for 10mill Prz

[Raylen]

lol. 25 mil. there's probably not even that much gold in the whole game.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

Agreed 500k-1mill would put mages back over the top of thieves.... thats too low

[ChiliPepper]

10 mil, level 35 why not? I think it would be great fun.
It only seems fair as a Cobalt alternative for a mage. I think there are enough points raised on the previous page for this to be considered.

[Scripto]

Original this spell was re-released as a joke.. hence why it is so much to buy (Points at Pandilex) It was never suppose to be actually let in to the game.. I was not staff when the scrolls where given as X-Mas prizes so I have no idea why that was done.. but as it stands right now.. its won't be in 1alt either and would need alot more then this to change my mind....

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

What exactly would be needed for you to change your mind?
Seems like its actually a popular idea and the funny thing is alot of these people posting do not even have mages near arch yet

[Consumed]

hmm... would u be willing to give reason(s) why you dont want it released in 1a... cuz i really dont see to many people obtaining/spending 10 mill on devastate... i know i would try to persuade jono into buying cobalt instead (for reasons stated in above posts)... i mean its likely that eventually the economy will grow to the point where people can have both...but i dont see that happening for a long time...

[Raylen]

Ok let's do some maths.

At lvl 30, mages pwn ok. With Devastate, even more so. But guess what? Game goes up to 40 now. So let's consider lvl 35:

Lvl 35 halfling thief hits for 500+, which is gonna click just about anything. Lvl 35 mage with beam will hit that thief for 60*6 = 360 - not enough. In a full duel, the thief will get off 4 or more full stam assassinates, leaving the mage with no chance. Even a lvl 40 mage would struggle against that lvl 35 thief...let alone another lvl 40.



Basically...

maybe thieves' max assassinate should be RAISED. But the chances of getting big hits should be lowered. So normally with 7 stam you'd do say 250-320...but sometimes you'd hit up to 1000-1200. IMO assassinate should work more like that anyway.

Mage (and druid) spells should have greater variation in damage - instead of varying by 5, vary by 25.

all for now kty




but srsly though, 10 mil for a spell, how is that gonna cause a real problem???

[Angelus]

Basically...

maybe thieves' max assassinate should be RAISED. But the chances of getting big hits should be lowered. So normally with 7 stam you'd do say 250-320...but sometimes you'd hit up to 1000-1200. IMO assassinate should work more like that anyway.

I so sagree with that. It's all to predictable now.

All classes should kinda be like that, only not as much as the one hitters.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

More staff opinions plz....

Devastate ftw

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

More staff input?
Recap:
1: mages lame cuz waste too much mana for bosses
2: mages lame cuz they get clicked at higher levels too easily
3: mages lame cuz even if they do get attacks first on other high levels, we have to wait for them to go slight/mod b4 hitting or click
4: mages wouldnt be lame with reasonable devastate price... gg
Edit.. 5: Also seems to be a popular idea among people

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 18 April 2008 - 04:10 AM.

[Tecton]

Think this through: any change to the game is bigger than you seem to be thinking, because people make decisions based on the rules as they currently exist. You chose a mage, you trained a mage, and then somewhere along the line, the game got changed for or against you. Does that bug you? Sure it does. One class is made stronger, another weaker, and all you can think is, "Geeze I made my decision, invested my time and gold, and now the whole thing is different."

Making changes like you are suggesting has to come slowly, because so much more than you seem to think is at stake.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

Well yeah it does bug me... I trained a mage because they were most powerful... after all my time they are def. not anymore

Only changes harmful to mages have occured, lowered beam cost was canceled by the higher invis cost...
Sorb items now out...
Thieves (now overpowered class) had min assass raised, helping them all the more.

Therefore if Devastate came back inplay and made my mage a uber again (at the price of 10mill plus=all mages wont have so wont overpower mages) it would, for thieves, be somewhat like the change that happened to mages. Even tho they didnt start on top to begin with....
Even those mages WITH devastate can still get easily clicked by 35 thief.

So for hefty price of 10 mill+ u pack more of a punch, but still can get clicked.... = cant think of any other factors that would cause it to be overpowered

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 18 April 2008 - 04:40 AM.

[Oracle]

To be fair, we can make Devastate minimally more effective than Beam and still charge 10mill for it at level 35+.
If the difference was small enough, then I'd say someone paying 10mill for it and leveling to 35 for it deserves it.
You'll love it when thieves get Cobalts even more
I don't see this being too dis-similar to that.

This is only my opinion off the top of my head. I've not talked to other staff about it at all, nor really thought this through lol

[Cuban]

Well yeah it does bug me... I trained a mage because they were most powerful... after all my time they are def. not anymore

Only changes harmful to mages have occured, lowered beam cost was canceled by the higher invis cost...
Sorb items now out...
Thieves (now overpowered class) had min assass raised, helping them all the more.

Is right mages trainers have gotten jipped with changes to thieves and asorb being added, nearly impossible to kill a thief with 7 stam on any class let alone a mage. The addiditon of Devastate might not give mages the edge over thieves, but certainly a fighting chance. *note* not bias, don't train either class.

Edited by Cuban, 18 April 2008 - 07:36 PM.

[Gaddy]

I think it is foolish to say that the gold wouldn't be spent.
There are single players with over 5m, and one I know of with nearly enough in the bank to buy a Cobalt Staff of the Winds.
Additional things to consider-
1. This rather large amount of gold has been made by getting to level 35.
2. Characters will be getting stronger and making even more gold faster as they get higher and higher.
3. The 1-alt system should really take quite a while to reach top potential, especially with equipment and such.
4. Mages are not weak in any fashion. They do not seem to need even better spells since Beam improves with every level, just like attackers hits.

When you're training a mage to that high of level, you can afford to spend that much to give the crit a better attack or item. I do not think it should be put in, not how Devastate is on the main server at the very least.
If anything, it should do about the same damage as beam, or do more and fizzle a lot...even for level 40s.


Anyway, that's just my opinion...since it was asked for.

[Angelus]

There is already a player with enough money for a csotw. That doesn't mean it's easy, just cause some people are rich is no reason to measure with their standards.

I don't believe mages are underpowered tho, I'm pretty sure my cleric sucks more on an 1a server. But thieves are so overpowered it's ridiculous. No pots/mana needed. Only food/water, all gold is pure profit. I would've had a 37/38 thief on 1a by now if exp gain would let me and I didn't fall dead out of boredom.

[Cuban]

4. Mages are not weak in any fashion. They do not seem to need even better spells since Beam improves with every level, just like attackers hits.

Disagree compared to what they used to be and what they are now, and compared to thieves, they are Very weak. And don't matter how much stam or dmg your beam does, b/c a thief will still have same if not more stam and will do more dmg....you lose 9/10 times.

Edited by Cuban, 18 April 2008 - 10:00 PM.

[Gaddy]

....because you've used a level 37 mage with 7 stam?

My point is that the server still has a lot of growth left, and at the current rate, that growth will yield a whole whole lot of gold, items, characters, etc.
It is poor fashion to put out what would probably be the final limit on mage spells before even knowing where they stand. The same goes for top equipment on all classes and such...


Anyone who argues against that is simply being demanding, which is what we get all the time, and it doesn't really help any proper developement.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

As for players with close to 10 mill... please look at the gametime it has taken to achieve this....Total Game Time: 73 days, 5 hours and 46 minutes.

Also, yes beam increases (usually 1-2 point dmg per lvl) (not enough to make a diff when other characters are gaining 20+ per lvl)

And as for more gold being made at higher levels, this is true... but then you have to turn around and blow it on tokens (1.5mill so far on achilles)... and now it has increased to 1.1 mill per level after 35...

As for mages not being weak, a level 35 thief easily clicks Achilles (162 ac) unspelled..... mages have to gain 2 more levels (around 900 mill exp) to get that 7th stam.... and when a mage hits 7 stam, its only useful in sneak attack or el use they get clicked.... when thieves start hitting 8 stam.... mages wont stand a chance....

I'm ganna have to disagree with "this being demanding"....
If changes need to wait until 1a gets to full potential, then why was min assass raised?
Same thing here, no reason that Devastate couldn't be added.

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 19 April 2008 - 12:02 AM.

[Raylen]

If changes need to wait until 1a gets to full potential, then why was min assass raised?

[Consumed]

If changes need to wait until 1a gets to full potential, then why was min assass raised?