48 replies to this topic

[Prophet]

As it currently is if you get attacked, your crits will be at the top, as the other person will have logged on after you to come pk you.

I think your logic is somewhat flawed...

Who's to say that he's logged on after I have?

And even if he has logged on after me, its not always the case. If someone with a number below me (which would make them display above me) has logged off (which theres always a good chance of), whoever is logging on to PK could easily be assigned the number (or any of the numbers) that would make his pic display above mine.

the order they appear on is dependent upon the connection number you have on the server, randomizing it would not be practical, as everytime you look around or something it wouldn't change.

The way I understand this is umm... well, for example:
#1: Wolfgang
#2: Seiken
#3: PKer a

"PKer b" Has just logged on"

the list would become
#1: Wolfgang
#2: Seiken
#3: PKer a
#4: PKer b

But lets say a character logs off...
#1: (unoccupied)
#2: Seiken
#3: PKer a
#4: PKer b

if PKer c were to log on, they'd take the place unoccupied place (#1), before they took number 5.
So it would become
#1: PKer c
#2: Sieken
#3: PKer a
#4: PKer b


Now, if tehre were only 4 characters, that would be easy enough to figure out. But, put it on as large a scale as nightmist is, with people not knowing which spot they're in, in addition to the fact that people are constantly logging on and off

In the process of logging on your crits you nearly always fill those spaces though at the start so unless you get lucky in that everyone above you logs off and no one else log ons the pker will most likely be at the bottom.

Especially with the population of the game logging on mainly at night Uk time means thats those training around 6-7 Server time will almost certainly be at the top as more people log on no free spots are available.

During the day time it is even more noticeable as with a limited online characters of around 40 at usual times during the day its highly unlikely that your attacker is going to be placed above you.

So although in theory it shouldn't make much difference in actual practice it does. I apologise for not stating where my logic came from I just assumed that most of the experienced players alreday knew how it actually works.

Edited by Prophet, 02 May 2006 - 04:02 PM.

[Gwaspawn]

meh u guys talk to much who cears if u get pked well i always get pked so i guess i dont have a opetion

[Gangster]

Ok I was all for the toggable alts idea and I still am, but Alone made a valid point with his post and he gave a solution to it by coding so your own alts are at the bottom. I believe that either option coded into the game would make alot of people happy. :-)

[Prophet]

mhm and the party members invisible one would reduce alot of lag when moving making the game for accesible for those who don't have a tip top pc

[Wolfgang]

I understand where your coming from, but I still think its somewhat flawed.

The thing is, we don't know which players occupy which places, which kind of throws off the whole set of numbers.

The only way to be sure of who occupies what is to be the first one on after the server gets updated, or after somebody gets booted.

Edited by Wolfgang, 02 May 2006 - 06:01 PM.

[Prophet]

Were not talking about general crits though were talking parties of 15+ and there are only 8 crit places the likely hood is that your crits will occupy those top 8 places :x

[Stigmata]

I'm of the opinion that if you have to use mass alt parties to pk you should put up with random picture orders. I mean think about it - it's like a boxer fighting another boxer, but instead of testing his skills man to man he invites 10 of his friends in the ring to help - It's pretty clear that your all so bothered about what your 'mates' think about you, that you'd rather log on loads of alts to try and guarantee the win, instead of playing the game how it was intended - with one. Either that or you feel forced to use them because someone else is - I suppose thats fair enough....but why not try to set a trend. You'd gain more respect from using a small party than you would 10+

Just another suggestion that will benefit the alt users and make life even more difficult for everyone else (if none alt users even exist now).

And before you say it, yes I used mass alts before - but that was before anyone else, and I was fighting the 'whole' game by myself with 1 person helping me (al). Ask anyone in that era - it was a fun time, until the others started using alts aswell, which brought on all this rubbish.

Edited by Stigmata, 02 May 2006 - 06:44 PM.

[Rappy_Ninja]

supported

[Prophet]

I'm of the opinion that if you have to use mass alt parties to pk you should put up with random picture orders. I mean think about it - it's like a boxer fighting another boxer, but instead of testing his skills man to man he invites 10 of his friends in the ring to help - It's pretty clear that your all so bothered about what your 'mates' think about you, that you'd rather log on loads of alts to try and guarantee the win, instead of playing the game how it was intended - with one. Either that or you feel forced to use them because someone else is - I suppose thats fair enough....but why not try to set a trend. You'd gain more respect from using a small party than you would 10+

Just another suggestion that will benefit the alt users and make life even more difficult for everyone else (if none alt users even exist now).

And before you say it, yes I used mass alts before - but that was before anyone else, and I was fighting the 'whole' game by myself with 1 person helping me (al). Ask anyone in that era - it was a fun time, until the others started using alts aswell, which brought on all this rubbish.

This isn't to benefit the pker though. Its to benefit the trainer in fighting back. Pkers already have the upper hand as being likely to be at the bottom and the element of surprise.

[Stigmata]

Believe me, not being able to see your own alts can only benefit the pker further in their quest to kill things with mass alts as quickly as possible. Sure it may also help those being attacked, but then we're back to square 1 anyway?

As an example, if I cant see my owns alts, then chances are the only thing on the square will be the target - whats to stop me switching rapidly between my alt windows, keeping the mouse over the top picture whilst clicking it rapidly and simply tapping alt+esc over and over again? When one target dies, the next picture pops to the top so I dont even have to look at who im targetting.

Bad idea imo.

Edited by Stigmata, 02 May 2006 - 09:41 PM.

[Raylen]

whats to stop me switching rapidly between my alt windows, keeping the mouse over the top picture whilst clicking it rapidly and simply tapping alt+esc over and over again? When one target dies, the next picture pops to the top so I dont even have to look at who im targetting.

...which is exactly what happens anyway, that's the whole bloody point of changing it!!

...because at least this way, the person whose crits are at the bottom has a chance of fighting back.

Edited by Raylen, 03 May 2006 - 11:32 AM.

[Stigmata]

You're talking as if the defender -always- has his crits at the top lol.

What if the attacker has his crits at the top and his targets at the bottom?

If there's a special way to get around this like you said earlier and manipulate where your crits are positioned then that should be fixed.

Also without the need to worry about picture positions, do you really think a defender will stand a better chance to get an attack in? I seriously can't contemplate how you see this helping those being jumped/attacked.....

If anything all it will do, is put both parties in the same position they were in before this change, but simply gives a greater advantage to whoever attacks first. And considering the first person to attack is someone with like 15 arch zerkers/thieves.....well.....you know.

[Raylen]

The "special way of getting round it" has been semi-explained elsewhere in this thread

If I am going training somewhere high-risk, then I'll try and ensure my crits will be at the bottom, using that method. However, it isn't fail-safe.

But, if I find someone else training, and I use the method, I can 99.9% guarantee all my crits will appear below the crits I am going to kill.


Also...think of real-life...I'm out training, hunting, and my men are tired (3/5 stam etc). Someone gets the jump on me, his men are fresh and ready to fight (full stam, spells etc). Most of the time, you'd expect me to lose this particular battle, assuming the two parties are of a similar standard. But if I can be clever...save stam on clerics and heal my rangers when he attacks on the second round, then who knows. Might just be my lucky day.


At the end of the day, putting in any of the solutions given above will make fighting about skill, and equipment. Which is the way it should be. Not about where your pictures appear.

If anything all it will do, is put both parties in the same position they were in before this change, but simply gives a greater advantage to whoever attacks first.

Think for a second...you're just wrong on that one lol.

Edited by Raylen, 03 May 2006 - 12:02 PM.

[Stigmata]

I fail to see how i'm wrong. Explain it to me. If both parties cant see their alts, then its the exact same position as before, if not worse for the defender. Before, whoever attacked first had to worry about picture windows before unleashing all 15 characters worth of stamina in 2 seconds. The defender could get lucky and have his crits at the bottom, and vice versa for the attacker.
With this change the attacker wouldn't have to worry about scrolling down to interupt their alt usage. Sure the defender wouldn't either, but then its back to the same concept as it has always been, just done differently with an even greater advantage to whoever attacks first.

So really all that needs to be changed is so that you can't decide yourself where your pictures appear. As stated in my last post.

[joanna]

If there was a /togglealts command, you could use it on your fighting crits but not your healers. Best of both worlds.

As for the alt order, i suggested earlier a client-side system where on logging in the client selects a random number between 0 and the highest active character slot, and displays from that number to max, then jumps to 0, and continues back up to the character order. If you log on additional alts the second and subsequent clients would detect the first client and use its random number, so all your alt windows look the same

[Prophet]

I fail to see how i'm wrong. Explain it to me. If both parties cant see their alts, then its the exact same position as before, if not worse for the defender. Before, whoever attacked first had to worry about picture windows before unleashing all 15 characters worth of stamina in 2 seconds. The defender could get lucky and have his crits at the bottom, and vice versa for the attacker.
With this change the attacker wouldn't have to worry about scrolling down to interupt their alt usage. Sure the defender wouldn't either, but then its back to the same concept as it has always been, just done differently with an even greater advantage to whoever attacks first.

So really all that needs to be changed is so that you can't decide yourself where your pictures appear. As stated in my last post.

This is what you would have understood if you'd bothered to read the rest of the topic, as it is 90% of the time the attacker is already at the bottom meaning that he can see the person he goes to hit but the trainer can't.

What were suggesting would allow the trainer to be able to see the pker and the pker also to be able to see the trainer, this way the trainer at least stands a fighting chance.

[Kakarott]

i support it 150% i think this should get added it would be better for the people that like to pk and for those who defend themselves...

[Rappy_Ninja]

wow get over it fat kids if your pics dont appear on screen = for the best the fights will actually take skill then

[MysticStorm]

blah it's just a stupid toggle. It's pretty much the same as /togglemosh argument is, you can either use it or don't use it. It's up to each individual. I support the idea 100 percent and for a rare change, I agree with rappy on what he said.

Edited by MysticStorm, 06 May 2006 - 12:22 AM.