52 replies to this topic

[Stitched]

does anyone else think that the value drop in items over the last 6 months is rediculous? Alot of you might know me ingame if not my name is justin, Main character is 'Listening', But yeah I was looking around on the site and found that items that used to be 300k or 200k before I stopped playing for 6 months are now like 30k and 50k.... This almost makes bosses not even worth the time to kill, Its pretty bad when you go to the GSW for the gold it drops instead of the item since there isnt' much of a difference. Anyways I think items should be binded to someone once they equip them, this way it keeps people out there killing bosses to make money and it keeps some kind of currency flow going in nightmist,Anyone else have an opinion about this? besides to complaint that I might have posted this in the wrong spot.

[Pureza]

Yeah prices on some items have dropped dramatically in the last 6 months or so. But permanently binding equipment to a crit is just a bad idea, what happens when you decide you wanna move something from one crit to another for a mosh or an event??? And with the drop in prices, it's also kind of level'd the playing field a bit for the newer players, seeing as how it's much easier for them to come up with 40 or 50k instead of 300 or 400k.

[Final Universe]

Theres a bagillion post like this. The only way to stimulate the economy is get a small group of ppl getting the drops and monopolize. Theres a KILLING to be made if it works out. Thats my two sense....Ive offered starting somthing like this and also would put the effort into updating what items SHOULD be bought and sold for. It would be like a circle of commerce. It would consist of active players that get drops and active players that trade alot.

Edited by Final Universe, 11 January 2006 - 07:53 PM.

[Trevayne]

There are a million posts on this, so let's try to make this into a thread of suggestions.

I don't think that a circle of commerce would be effective. All it takes is one person willing to break it to make a quick buck, which will always happen on NM.

I've given this a lot of thought, and the only solution that I see is to allow certain drops to be sold back to stores for a fixed price. You would not be able to purchase these items at the store, only sell them. This would have two main effects:

1) People would never sell for less than the store price, so this would provide a minimum value for these items.

2) The number of those items in game would drop, which would prevent the glut of equipment that currently exists. Who knows... this might even cause the demand to actually push the price back above the set price.

[Final Universe]

(to Trevayne) Ok that would be the best solution but then how would you value new items? Items such as the Azure Robes or Mithril Claws are currently selling high because of low ammounts ingame where other items like Dragon's Skin and Blade of Time are equal in strength but cost alot less. Along with that what about items on site that would be cheaper then the bar set for the price these items sell at.

Suggestion: You can either place the price you get form a shop the same as the lowwest price on site when added into the game and gradually raise the price until its fair. Or set the price at one rate and then have a staff buy all the items off the site that are lower then that price. This is because the first wave of people to be logged on when this would take place could make MILLIONS if they just bought items off site and sold them to shops.

However if this would work out id suggest
Crystal rings:150k
Boots of Time:150k
Spider Gauntlets:150k
Blade of time:1,000K
Emerald Dagger:750k
Gloves of Vigor:250k
Gauntlets of Virtue:1,000k
Mithril Claws:1,000k
Halberd:50k
Rose Blade:100k
Dragon's Skin:100k
Sand Wurm Hide:100k
Concealing Petal Armor:100k
Dagger of Spirits:25k

all i can think of....
this would make things simple...it wouldnt lower the price of gauntlets of virtue or mithril claws because they are selling now based on their rareness.

A example of this is cobalts reselling for 9.2 when shops pay 8.5

Edited by Final Universe, 11 January 2006 - 08:42 PM.

[Trevayne]

I don't think that you would need to do this to all items... only to items that have become so prevalent that they are dropping rapidly in price. Azure robes and Mithril claws haven't obtained a stable price yet because they are still rare items. These could be left out until they do obtain a stable price.

I think the prices that you have listed are reasonable. I think there are a number of ways that this could be implemented:

1) Staff buy all the items on site for the lower price.

2) Staff modify the selling price of any items on site below the store price to be the minimum store price.

3) For a period of a few days, only the owner of an item can remove (purchase) an item from the site. (Insert a check into the database code that asserts that the seller and the purchaser are the same.) This would allow people a few days to pull items from the site and get sell them at the store.

[Stitched]

Yeah, I agree there should be a vendor around that can buy almost any item for a base price which will stop items for being sold for less than that, that would be awsome and would fix alot and keep things at a value worth the time in killing the boss.

[JLH]

problem is, that will get more gold into the game

[EvilDognapot]

take it to the shop in the scarlet daggers guild. you can get money for alot things there.

Edited by EvilDognapot, 11 January 2006 - 09:53 PM.

[Trevayne]

problem is, that will get more gold into the game

It will. There's no doubt that there is a cost to this, but I think it's a worthwhile one.

Look at it this way... in the long run, who does this benefit? The people who go out to kill bosses and get drops for themselves. Those people can be certain that they can get a minimum amount for those items... enough to make the effort/mana/risk worthwhile. I'm more than happy seeing them with a little bit of extra gold.

Who does this hurt? Mostly the people who sit on their heels and make gold by buying cheaply from someone (who usually doesn't know better) and reselling at a higher price. (Don't worry... these folks can still do it, they will just have to do it with rarer items and from the more experienced players.)

[Perfection]

problem is, that will get more gold into the game

Calculate gold then remove the ammount the top 6 ranked people have and you will have something closer to a figure of gold that accualy moves around nm.

I don't believe there is to much gold, i do believe there is to many items

If items could be sold back to shops it should be at a flat minimum rate (suggests 1/3 of Final Universe prices)

[fallen]

I relaize its very time consuming and probley not very practical for NM but perhaps for NM2....

If staff had a functiion to know how many items are in game, and could monitor the amount of crits that would be in demand of the item (ie lvl requirements/amount in game already) perhaps they could better deal with the economy a bit better... for instance Spider Gauntlets have been around for a very long time and I am sure its safe to say the demand for this item is quite low..but maybe staff could adjust the drop % of certian items like SG's to try to keep the item in demand or perhaps introduce alternative drops in place of the SG's when demand is low or to help the demand increase for the item. If they see a trend of prcing of an item drop (ie website price contuines to go down) staff could purchase the item and resell it at an approtiate price.


But it really comes down to supply and demand ..by manipulating the drop % of an item you effectivly could manipulate the demand on the item or the sell cost of it....I am sure when staff sat down and created this game there wasnt a huge amount of time devoted to how to run an effective ecomony, probley more time spent on cool stuff like shiney items ect. and chacter stats/abillites ....but some blame could be related to the impatient players that cant sit on an item for a day or two in order to get a decent price they want to sell it in 5 seconds..and of coruse if jimmy just bought it for 100k then why would I pay 200k for the real value of the item.

And then there is always the discusstion of there is to much gold in the game ect ....add variety, players simpley need something cool to spend all this gold on and I am sure they would be willing..especially since everyone uses alts pretty much now days....give people a wide range of things to buy even if they are very simular to other equip at least its a bit different and thats always a good thing, you could simply keep most stats the same or at least on the same wave lenth and change up the descriptions on the items so there is no so called unbalancing ....just give the players so much variety they wouldnt wanna save just buy cool stuff and wanna gather more gold to contuine the process.

You cant keep the same dozen boss's in a game for 5 years dropping the same thing over and over and over to the same 50-100 players and wonder why players aren't spending thier gold or why there is to much gold in the game.


Brian

[Gunshow]

Owned

[Cadabra]

so people have more gold to buy there items JLH could take the monster drop up by about 50 gold that way it helps newbies out and gets players with the expensive items what they want!

any1 agree?

[Raylen]

Nope, shush now.

[Wind]

so people have more gold to buy there items JLH could take the monster drop up by about 50 gold that way it helps newbies out and gets players with the expensive items what they want!

any1 agree?

Matty stfu you dont know what you are telling about......

I agree with Fallen..

[Final Universe]

A report was done about a year ago saying theres 410million gold ingame, at that time a Crystal Ring was selling for 250k, now a report was done not more then 2 months ago saying there is 395million gold ingame and crystal rings are selling for 125k.

A year ago if all the gold was spent on cr's we could buy 1,640 of them
Today if all th e gold was spent on cr's we could buy 3,160 of them

If staff regulated the price of crystal rings a year ago to where you could sell them in shops for 250k, and the gold ingame rose to 500million (doubt this because players would be buying cobalts ect) we would only be able to buy 2000 cr's. so in a sense the gold ingameemight stay the same buy if you can buy twice as much with your gold dont you think that it doubled?

[Roidhun]

The monster of self-created inflation rears it's ugly head...

To kill the monster, kill some items - the real problem is too many items ingame. To keep items valued, lower drop rates.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

[Trevayne]

The monster of self-created inflation rears it's ugly head...

To kill the monster, kill some items - the real problem is too many items ingame. To keep items valued, lower drop rates.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

I think that would have been a viable solution 12 months ago. I think we're now at the point where there is such a glut of items that we need a way to remove some items from current circulation.

Allowing items to be sold (converted to gold) is the easiest solution.

Another possibility would be to allow current items to be traded in for something slightly more valuable. For example, if you could give some NPC 3 pairs of SGs to receive an enhanced pair of SGs (which were the same item with +1 armor), you'd very quickly both reduce the number of items in game and re-establish a fair market price for the item. This would of course mean introducing more powerful items, some of which would be difficult to balance, so I think gold is a better solution.

[Azza]

The monster of self-created inflation rears it's ugly head...

To kill the monster, kill some items - the real problem is too many items ingame. To keep items valued, lower drop rates.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

I think that would have been a viable solution 12 months ago. I think we're now at the point where there is such a glut of items that we need a way to remove some items from current circulation.

Allowing items to be sold (converted to gold) is the easiest solution.

Another possibility would be to allow current items to be traded in for something slightly more valuable. For example, if you could give some NPC 3 pairs of SGs to receive an enhanced pair of SGs (which were the same item with +1 armor), you'd very quickly both reduce the number of items in game and re-establish a fair market price for the item. This would of course mean introducing more powerful items, some of which would be difficult to balance, so I think gold is a better solution.

that wud make the SGs price go back up, and the new iteam wud sell for lots before ppl started tradin SGs for the enhanced Sgs therefore there will be lots of enhanced SGs and the price of them will come down. so you would be back in the same situation wudnt you?

or the sgs would go down because ppl wud be after enhanced SGs insted

Edited by Azza, 13 January 2006 - 01:21 PM.

[Trevayne]

that wud make the SGs price go back up, and the new iteam wud sell for lots before ppl started tradin SGs for the enhanced Sgs therefore there will be lots of enhanced SGs and the price of them will come down.  so you would be back in the same situation wudnt you?

or the sgs would go down because ppl wud be after enhanced SGs insted

You really don't understand the economics of this.

If you were allowed to trade 3 SGs to get 1 better item, and that was the only way of getting this item, the following things would happen:

1) Wealthy players would convert their stockpile of SGs to the newer item. This would mean that you would use up two extra pairs of SGs for each character that you wanted to equip. This would remove these items from the game.

2) The demand for SGs would go up. Players would want to be using the new improved items on their characters, so they would need to buy 2 more pairs of SGs for each character to make that happen.

3) The price of regular SGs would go up. Increased demand and a diminishing supply will lead to higher prices.

4) The overall number of SGs in game would drop initially, and would likely stabilize in the long term while the number of enhanced SGs would increase at a slower rate.

If you don't like the SGs example because it involves a new item, what if you could convert 3 CRs into a Ring of Astray? On the surface, this is equivalent to selling 3 CRs at 150k each and buying a new RoA. However, this method has the advantage that the original number of CRs is decreased without adding any gold to the economy.

[Azza]

ah rite ill let you off but that looks like solution for the time being but in another 6 months we will probably be back in a similar situation and new iteams are always good

[Trevayne]

This would not be a temporary solution if the more valuable items were things with established prices. For example, RoAs have a fixed purchase price. Allowing a player to convert 3 CRs into an RoA would effectively fix the price of a CR at 145-150k. (If you can buy an RoA for 450k, you might instead choose to buy 3 CRs at 145k-150k and convert them instead.)

[EvilDognapot]

durability? i'm laughing, but it would've made a big difference.

[Roidhun]

The monster of self-created inflation rears it's ugly head...

To kill the monster, kill some items - the real problem is too many items ingame. To keep items valued, lower drop rates.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

From the posts following the one quoted, I see that I should have been a bit less ummm... terse

By killing items I meant actually removing them from the game - by admin action.

The number of items should subsequently be kept at a reasonable level by adjusting the various bosses' drop rates thus ensuring a fair pricing.

Of course, the best way would be JLH pressing the /RESET button so we all started from the same point once more, but then that's not fair coming from me - I rarely log on anymore. OTOH that, or the slightly less disturbing scenario of all items disappearing and being replaced by standard equipment, but crits otherwise left alone, might make me play again.

Edited by Roidhun, 14 January 2006 - 05:10 AM.

[Momba]

Well some argue that there are to many items. Some on the other hand would argue that the player base is to small. I tend to agree with the latter of the two. So with that being said why don't we try to be a little nicer to the new people and stop running them off. JLH isn't running them off. The game is an awesome game so I don't think that is it either. Alot of it has to do with peoples unwillingness to help others. Back in the day people made an honest effort at going out of thier way to help new players. It was not uncommon to see people sitting in the Boar's Tusk Inn to do just that.

Well we reap what you sow. So many are so compelled to be the best in the game. Beating down the little guy to do it. Well look around folks. You win!!! You beat the little guy so much he has lost his desire to fight anymore. So now all those shiney items you keep collecting are sitting there losing value each day. Because we ran the next generation of n00bs off. Sucks to be us.

[Prophet]

One word: Tax

Tax would:

• Decrease the amount of gold ingame.
• Encourage the spending of gold on items, items which would not be taxed.
• In doing this you increase demand for items.
• A larger demand in turn means a larger inflation in item prices
• Therefore item prices rise and stabalise in turn with the amount of gold ingame.

Problem is no ones ever going to support tax as there all too greedy .

However, it is a reasonable solution and a viable one, lets face it whose going to save gold piles if you're getting taxed on it whereas they would be more encourage to put this gold into items where the value will not be decreased.

Edited by Prophet, 14 January 2006 - 12:28 PM.

[Trevayne]

But with money orders, it would be trivial to hide away any amount of cash. Assessing a tax would be nearly impossible.

[Prophet]

Tax money orders aswell

[Final Universe]

I dont think it fits into the realm, tax possibly for entering an area or buying somthing from shop but lets suppose thats already added. Theres no government earning the tax so it really surves no purpose. Why not allow players to change the picture on their items for 500k.