33 replies to this topic

[Malavon]

First of all, I know this has been posted in the Cleric Discussion several times.. but I think that it would get more attention here, so I’ll post it here.

Make it so the bonuses don't affect other players, only monsters.

I'm not sure if I made this clear enough, but I couldn't really fit anymore in. Basically, what I mean is: make it so the strength and to hit bonus are ignored in PvP, but not in PvM (or vice versa if you voted for the other option). This could be a valid solution, as some people have said that they use it against monsters but not players.

My reasoning for removing RF is because it overpowers all the classes. As has been said before, the main time people complain about a class is when it is spelled up. Whenever a class has been buffed with RF, the majority of the time they hit hard enough and often enough to round anything. Maybe just lowering the bonuses is enough, but we'll find out after this poll

[alone]

heh, someone who gave all the options a person may need, nicely done!

[Thunderja]

Without RF my zerkers would be out the window too, so i say leave it as it is, if you don't want it in player vs player fights, know your enemy and pwn their cleric first.

[Angelic]

If it -absolutely- has to be lowered, then only lower it by a very small amount, otherwise, don't mess with it at all. Not all people use it for pking, lol. So, to take it away for everyone completely because "some" people get overpowered by it, is a stupid idea, imo. I don't use it at all, other than training, or when I'm bored and feel like killing myself in the clan arena, and I'm sure there's lots more people who don't just use it for pking.

[alone]

Without RF my zerkers would be out the window too, so i say leave it as it is, if you don't want it in player vs player fights, know your enemy and pwn their cleric first.

This is a community thing. The game doesn't revolve around you..

[Poison]

Maybe leave it as it is. HOWEVER, make it unable to be stacked with Enhance and/or Almighty Retribution. Or just make RF a personal spell, not a party spell.

Or maybe just remove the stength bonus, and give it a dex bonus instead. Then allow spells to be stackable. So instead of enhanced strength, enhanced strength and hit chance, and enhanced armor. You only have enhanced strength, increased dexterity, and enhanced armor.

The stackabiltiy of most spells in the game is what overpowers classes, not the individual spells.

[deadman]

It is fine the way it is why dont we jus leave it alone an every1 stop complaining?

[Squee]

Can't you just "dispell" Righteous Fury and Enhance and all those other lovely spells?

[Oasis]

Can't you just "dispell" Righteous Fury and Enhance and all those other lovely spells?

Not everyone has a mage.

[Squee]

Not everyone has a cleric.

[Malavon]

Not everyone has a cleric.

Hah...

I tried to post as many poll options as I could think of... guess I missed out the one to stop it being stacked with other spells.. sorry

[Thunderja]

Without RF my zerkers would be out the window too, so i say leave it as it is, if you don't want it in player vs player fights, know your enemy and pwn their cleric first.

This is a community thing. The game doesn't revolve around you..

Get over yourself numbnuts, changing this would effect me in a negative way so naturally i am gong vote leave it. As for my reason for leaving it, zerkers would be average to say the least without it.

Everything I've seen you post is bs, it's a discussion forum, not a you prancing round like a handicapped little forum fairy. Try actually contributing something instead of badly nitpicking through other peoples posts.

[Magoo]

hell yea leave it as it is b/c lots of people complain about a cleric being so hard to train so this is ur bonus for goin through all that hard work lol

[Deval]

people complain about a cleric being so hard to train so this is ur bonus for goin through all that hard work lol

What kind of ultra amazing drugs are you taking?

Meanwhile, I vote leave Righteous Fury as it is. I've trained many many clerics to 30, and it was rare that I used it, and the difference it made when I did was hardly even noticable. If it took people this long to decide it's over powered, it's obviously because you just got unlucky and got owned by a cleric. Deal with it.

[Magoo]

what u mean what kindve drugs im taking? how many times have we heard ingame about clerics being so hard to train or on forums that theres nowhere for people to train their clerics? yea tons

[Gaddy]

Ummm...no seriously Andy...clerics hard to train? They easily get to do damage of 100 4 times each round for an extra 20 xp per damage on the monsters they hit...

I've got a place where my cleric can heal 4 times for max of 114 min of 108 (unless fizzle of course) with it being 105 xpd. That is...well, not hard to train.


-Mages are hard mana sucking crits who aren't worth it to train
-druids aren't easy at all
-fighters are kind of dumb anyway in NM
-rangers blow at low level
-pacis have to do it alone
-clerics are annoying to get to 18 sometimes i suppose
-pallys i don't work with, wouldn't know
-thieves are much harder now with PT taken out, but still not too diff from other -hitters
-zerkers are pretty easy, don't actually miss on monsters as much as people say they do, or at least that has been my experience


Anyway, on topic-

RF causes some problems at times, but why, if you've got a problem with spelled up crits, do you insist on not leaving petes or south of nightmist?

I need RF for some bosses, it would be annoying to take on bandit leader w/o RF due to missing a lot and stuff with his higher hp.
I use it at TK because if i spend too long in the square something will end up being bad and i'll lose a crit or something.
Captain wylsen would only be killed by huge huge #s because he'd be missed more and hit for less, he's already to where I can't solo him, don't see why a boss with THAT low of a drop rate would need to take more than 2 people with SEVERAL arches hitting with spells.


If you feel it is too strong, I'd have to agree, but it's mana cost prevents it from being used TOO often. I don't see people train with it (ok, i do sometimes, but i honestly think I'm the only one who i've seen who's like that, even i RF just when training off the atrium and when my crits are close to level)
If you get jumped by a spelled party that rapes you because of RF, they would probably rape you without it.

Zerkers without it would be weakend a great deal, which I won't go into, i think they're too strong, but i also do not use them at all anymore. (zerks and pallys = none in my account at any level whatsoever) So i feel it is unfair for me to say too much about them being too strong.

Anyway, in all, I think it should be left as it is. There are too many times when things are simply too annoying to miss constantly (CG has far too much hp for missing 3 out of 5 times each round and only being able to use rangers and thieves).



STOP SITTING NEXT TO TOWN AND EXPECTING TO LIVE!

[Despair]

RF makes poor crits with low strength/dex actually hit hard and oftern and it makes zerkers super over powered to the point where when you rf and enhance a zerker they can click any crit ingame.

Fights used to be fun when you had to use a mixture of timing your hits and using pots, not cast RF on your party and see how many crits you can round.

I'd love to see it go back to how it used to be where people used enhance and champions strenth and relied on their crits own dex to hit.

edit: typos

Edited by Despair, 29 April 2004 - 03:33 AM.

[Bean]

Hehe I have a fix no one would like!

Make RF only work for monster attacks, and get rid of berserkers!

Just kidding....

[Deval]

/martyr Bean

[Matt]

I first voted to leave it as is, but as I have been thinking, I think RF should be completely removed.

RF along with other spells was supposed to be the first in many changes that came with the attribute system, unfortunatly clerics were the only ones affected.

Since RF has been put in, Paladin's have been completely useless. I remember when (if you wanted to be completely buffed) you needed a pally for champs str and a cleric for enhance.

A possible fix for this is do not let RF be on characters at the same time as Enhance? Making Paladin's more useful?

Just a thought, I know i'm going to get flamed for my opinion.

[Malavon]

Meanwhile, I vote leave Righteous Fury as it is. I've trained many many clerics to 30, and it was rare that I used it, and the difference it made when I did was hardly even noticable. If it took people this long to decide it's over powered, it's obviously because you just got unlucky and got owned by a cleric. Deal with it.

I must admit, I didn't expect it to be you to use the pathetic 'you got pked by them, that's why you’re angry' argument. I guess I thought too much of you. I’ll just dump you in the 'loser' category, along with Rick, Thunderja, deadman and some other people.

I have NOT been pked by someone using it. How could I? I don't even play (I did want to start up, but got bored about a day later).

Matt’s idea solution is pretty good... that way it stops characters being over powered AND makes paladins useful in party situations again.

[Gaddy]

You guys are looking at this as though people run around killing one another constantly spelled up. Almost no players use RF unless they KNOW they are about to need to fight or if a boss needs to be hit quickly and hard.

Zerkers-
Duels with zerkers rounding your crits because they've got RF on is one of the most annoying things in game. Having your arch dwarf cleric rounded in 4 out of 6 stam will piss anyone off. I had it happen at least 4 times (just with 4 stam, plenty where they took 5 or 6 due to a miss or 2). Quite simply, zerkers hit really hard, be that overpowered or just their trait. I've had an unspelled zerker that was hypno'd and divine lighted (not positive they stacked, but i had done both to it, hypno after dl, 1 click (with smite) my arch ranger of 21 dex and 291hp. Lucky hit, but still seems too strong to me, that doesn't mean the game has to be changed, just because i think something is too strong doesn't mean everyone should be effected for me....even though many people have complained about it before.

[Despair]

without Righteous fury however Zerkers are pretty average crits, and RF doesnt just make Zerkers round crits it will allow almost any attacking class to round or almost round any other.

[Deval]

I must admit, I didn't expect it to be you to use the pathetic 'you got pked by them, that's why you’re angry' argument. I guess I thought too much of you. I’ll just dump you in the 'loser' category, along with Rick, Thunderja, deadman and some other people.

I have NOT been pked by someone using it. How could I? I don't even play (I did want to start up, but got bored about a day later).

Matt’s idea solution is pretty good... that way it stops characters being over powered AND makes paladins useful in party situations again.

Well I'm terribly sorry that your oversensitive. However, what puts you in any position to comment, let alone start a thread if you don't even play? As for the mortal wound I inflicted on you with my reasoning, you will realise that my statement wasn't targeted at any one specific user, thus the use of the word 'people', don't be so self centered. Even still it wasn't an attempt to agitate you, and however oh so heart breaking it is for you to class me as a 'loser', I never said anyone was angry, and what I stated was the only reasoning, taking from my personal use of clerics with and against, that I can see someone believing they need to post this.

Now if you'll excuse me, shall I get you a hanky? A violin maybe? I suppose I could even dim the lights dramatically for you?

[Squee]

...I remember when you used to do that for me... *sniffle*

[Dan]

ok what happened to RF now? Is it not working on Zerkers for a reason?

Edited by Dan, 01 May 2004 - 01:07 AM.

[Kalypso]

You berserked at Anais from your Morning Star for 49 points of damage.
You berserked at Anais from your Morning Star for 81 points of damage.
You berserked at Anais from your Morning Star for 50 points of damage.
You missed Anais.
You berserked at Anais from your Morning Star for 39 points of damage.
You berserked at Anais from your Morning Star for 76 points of damage.
You killed Anais
You got 0 gold pieces.


ya i'd say righteous still works

lvl 27 zerk (with a morning star) < lvl 30 cleric

[Stigmata]

No offense zeph, but that doesn't prove the point either way as it's possible to do that without RF.

But yeah RF still works lol, and I think it could be lowered slightly.

[deadman]

no need for it to be lowered

[Dan]

I checked again, it worked this morning for me, but for some reason last night it wasn't showing up on Floyd's str. as being mod'ed.
My bad, although I refreshed, rebooted, etc.. thought is was changed.

/shrug

thnx Jen, Stig