40 replies to this topic

[Terrier]

Was thinking nm can be ballanced by taking away som bad implements.
Since thieves have been improved with their constant high damage they have been overpowered,remove it and change it back the way it used to be.
Remove 1 armor buff from druids,theyr armor is a total joke.
Remove mana leech completly
lower mage armor buffs by 5 or 15
i think that would ballance thieves vs
fighter vs druid vs pally vs zerk vs mage
Of course this is untested and can be changed on the way

I want to play any class not just thief mage druid.
And i think tis wont take that much time to do,how much time do u need for this update?

Edited by Terrier, 29 August 2008 - 05:56 AM.

[Terrier]

1 more idea remove enhance from clerics.that way ul have champion strenght buf from palladins only,and rf from clerics
zerkers are hard to train on 1alt i cant think of something to be removed yet.
I THINK NM CAN BE BALLANCED EASYER THIS WAY,AND IT MIGHT WORK,HOW MUCH TIME U NEED TO REMOVE SOM BAD IMPLEMENTS?SAVE NIGHTMIST

Edited by Terrier, 29 August 2008 - 05:53 AM.

[Ill never tell]

I think that these ideas are wack. And I also think that nothing will help this game grow-change besides something major.

[Terrier]

This is for 1alt only and i think it would ballance the classes a little.

[Cruxis]

Not..particularly..supported, but I have other ideas!

Clerics..make cleric token boss have less hp. It has what it's supposed too, high stam, damage, high poison even, but why high hp? Clerics are supposed to be mostly about healing anyway, hell, even up the damage a bit, but like, drop it's hp by like 30%. There aren't many people willing to cleric, and getting together even 6 is hard. When people were more active, I was able to get 8 clerics together, and it still took about an hour.

Fighters..just..don't deal much damage at all. Compared to magic, or attacks that don't get armor blocked (rapid fire, assassinate, zerk, ect), they are left in the dust. It would take coding, but I think armor peircing weapons would be nice for them, making armor block less (not go through armor). I always liked the idea of critical hits aswell, or just up their damage a bit. I can see any one of them working.

Paladins..they should deal a tad bit more damage, but I would rather them have a 100% hit rate or something close with holy speed on, or a self buff that can't be stacked with Champs or Holy Speed that gives +3 wis for 40 seconds or something.

Thieves..don't really deal too much damage, but coupled with high stam and the ability to go through armor, become death for armor depending crits. With no new armor introduced, thieves will continue to dominate. The only thing I can think of is instead of 75% of armor, maybe make them only go through 50%?

Rangers/Zerks/Druids/Mages seem pretty fine to me

Edited by Cruxis, 29 August 2008 - 07:42 AM.

[Terrier]

Like i said,only remove bad implements,i am talking about things that can be done easy and dont need programing cause that will never happen.
If you erase enhance from clerics,palladins would become more needed,they are fine just the way they are in the rest.
Thieves whould still click things just not all the time=more ballanced
armor lowered makes fighters do more then 10-30 'Joke' damage vs high armor
i know people would be happy to test them out,make 1 arch of every class with normal shop equips and the changes and see the results.
A player shoult be promotet to staff for ballancing the classes only,since i dont see any staff doing it.

Edited by Terrier, 29 August 2008 - 08:01 AM.

[Scripto]

1) Its Balanced. Only 1 "L"

2) You say a new staff should be hired to "balance" the classes.. now I want you to go back re-read your thoughts and think about that statement.

3) Just incase you still down get number 2, all the suggestions... ONLY JLH can do... now how is adding another staff that CAN'T change anything you want done going to change anything.. which also kills your statement about the current staff not doing anything.

4) Your ideas as stated above.. are "wack".. some of them have decent point behind them but some.. ya no... for example: The reason thieves are overpowered on 1alt is because of the item "Dagger of the Winds" which makes them able to train longer and easier which enabled them to level much faster then all the other classes on 1alt.

[Terrier]

First im from Romania,2 i type from a mobile phone,what i ment was for someone to be in charge with testing the characters,i didnt mention things that needs programing like changing dotw,if thieves where brought to the way they used to be they could hit for lets say 100 damage to 250 damage in a 4/4 stamina gain,they wont be able to heal so much and eventualy drink pots.
I dont care who will do it as long as somone does.
Was thinking for a faster way to balance them,how much do i have to wait?years?
I wanted to sell my thief and realised there is nothing else i ca do that would worth it,there is only thief.

Go to JLH with things he can change easy,make a list that wont take much time to do instead of things that require lots of time an programming.Try a diffrent aproach,people are done waiting,balance the classes a little bit give us something else to choose then the overpowered crits.
Scuzati greselile gramaticale facute.

Edited by Terrier, 29 August 2008 - 12:01 PM.

[Scripto]

Again,

Reread your topic and think about the stuff you wanted tested.

Those are things that can only be tested with changing codes of thge system. Again.. someonething ONLY JLH can do. So how is someone going to test it if only JLH can make the changes to try them out.

and to finish this post...

"Go to JLH with things he can change easy,make a list that wont take much time to do instead of things that require lots of time an programming."

This has done a million and two times. Trust me and ask any of the staff we have made list and list from least important to what needs to be done asap etc, etc, etc, tons of different ways.. all that happens is we get the samething that he puts on post everyone reads. "Noted"

[Terrier]

Great.

[Divinus]

Did someone delete myself and dj's posts or have i got alsymers? :S

[Sausage]

I love how mark goes inactive for months, comes back, says nothing productive, dismisses the whole thread and moves on. That's the kind of productive staffing we need to turn this game around.

[Gnarkill]

Did someone delete myself and dj's posts or have i got alsymers? :S

different thread all together there buddy. LOL

on topic: I agree with Mark..and his attitude is most likely because he has been stating the same thing over and over as well as the rest of staff has and people don't seem to get it.

Edited by Gnarkill, 30 August 2008 - 07:13 PM.

[Ill never tell]

If you havent noticed, About half of the post get deleted and not even said why these days. Even when they go with the topic of the thread. The staff see something that they dont want to hear even though it is nothing against the rules to post, they are just afraid to see the truth so they delet it because hey, its always best to just bury you problems then try to face them.

I've had about 75% of my ON topic post removed because I guess I was being to ON topic.

EX - "Nm waits for no one" - I said "Dont forget about the lvl 36 druid guild either" - Deleted.

I don't even know why im posting this because it will just be deleted.

I love how mark goes inactive for months, comes back, says nothing productive, dismisses the whole thread and moves on. That's the kind of productive staffing we need to turn this game around.

The game wont be turned around because no one wants to put the effort into it because "Why add things for such a small player base". To save it for a long run it would take JLH/Simon to do something drastic like stated in the "State of NM" thread. However, the STAFF could do stuff or pitch in to help the game but they dont "Have the time". Again, I don't even know why im posting this because it will just be deleted.

Edited by Ill never tell, 30 August 2008 - 07:27 PM.

[Oracle]

*deletes* lol
But yeh, you pretty much said it as it is.
Staff don't have the time and/or don't have the will.

[Gnarkill]

*deletes* lol
But yeh, you pretty much said it as it is.
Staff don't have the time and/or don't have the will.

True that. Its been stated a million times.. BIG nm changes need JLH or Simon for coding and that isn't gonna happen.. so staff are at a dead end facing repetitive questions and suggestions and or whining from a playerbase where half of the people who toss thier two cents on threads don't even log on anymore or are banned...To me that would be pretty annoying and I understand where staff comes from..

[Terrier]

I dont know what staff can or cant do,but can u ballance the game a little with something u can do?like editing items,skills?What exactly can you do?

[joanna]

Balancing NM? ill just post things ive suggested in the last 5-6 years:

*Both servers*

Make fighters able to fight. Fighter damage is pitiful against armoured opponents, damage difference between a 25bd and a 30bd weapon is not that much.
Make fighters able to draw damage, having huge armour and HP is no good when there is no way to protect your spellcasters with the fighter
Make paladins able to fight. They should have more hp than a druid/ranger/cleric with similar con, thier hit rate is horrendous even with nearly 30 dex, damage is poor and they suffer the same problem as fighters
Make paladins able to draw damage, ditto above.
Make paladins worthwhile in parties, their buff spell is expensive, short-lived and is cancelled by RF, they heal 180 per round compared to a clerics 440 (holy might + divine restoration), they only have 3 party spells (aid cleanse and CS) compared to a clerics 13, meaning people just take an extra cleric rather than a paladin. Im not saying make clerics obsolete, they just need something powerful that clerics DONT have and encourages people to take both in a party
Ban zerks from using ANY vampiric weapons. (defeats the point of the class)
Give mages a good buff spell so people want them in parties.
Reduce mage offensive spell cost.s
Increase baby ranger hit rate.

*1a server*

Stop all vampire weapons vampiring, perhaps excepting the SoE.
The elaborate L35-40 guild system aint gonna happen. 5 levels times 8 classes means 40 new areas to balance, and staff have trouble balancing the areas already in game let alone 40 new ones. Only doin certain classes is unfair on the others. Stick to coughing up a huge sum of gold and clicking a button.
Sort out the miss rate, especially at lower levels. Not everyone is level 30+, has the spare time to be logged on every day, or has 3-5 sharers to keep thier crits gaining 24/7. Help out players who have low-level crits, rather than just saying 'come back when you have an archmaster'

*main server*

permanent double exp
limit the number of characters of each certain class you can log at one time (ie no more than 3 zerks, 3 clerics, ect)

[Terrier]

i want to know what staff can do without the help of JLH maby there is a way we can balance the game a bit just with that

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

i was going to post something similar to this a few days ago and never got around to it so ill add it to this post...

I believe thieves are extremely overpowered in the realms of 1-alt. Not because the cheap sexy vamp dagger. And not because after you gain your sixth stamina training is especially easy. But because of the fact that the game was designed to raise assassinate with level. From what I understand, correct me if im wrong, with each level you gain your assassinate increases by a certain percent. So after level 30 the system in which we are using begins to exceed the hp of the other classes. This is because after level 30 the calculations for minimum assassinate are too high to compensate for the current hp table. So that’s the main problem with thieves. Other than seven stamina being dominate which is linked to the minimum assassinate problem. Anyways, i agree with alec, i think the only way to solve this quickly and somewhat easily would be to change thieves ability to go through 75% of armor, and to make them only go through 50%...


Fighters/paladins could easily be balanced against armor spell classes with higher base damage weapon, but this would cause a problem against classes without armor spells... so they would inturn need new armors to account for the higherbase damage... so basicly.. without a team of staff willing to put out some time and effort to test out new item combinations with different level of characters, there can not be a way to balance this game without the big guy... BUT, im sure if staff put there heads together and worked on something like this they could find a viable solution to help balance the classes...

I dont see an argument for druids especially, they arent really a pking class, but on the other hand they are kinda hard to kill... other than lowering assassinate a tad i dont see anything that druids need really...

Berserkers as of now seem to be pretty balanced against other classes... but in the future id be willing to bet that they will be overly superior to the other classes... now dont get me, considering they are probly the hardest class to train on 1a(after 25 of course) they should be superior...but not to the point that they are the only relevant class... you know, like thieves are now... so id deffinately suggest testing their hp/stam on higher lvls..

I feel similar about rangers to the way i feel about druids... they arent that great of a class pvp(they can hold there own, especially with dex mods) but they have the hypno ability and can stand up to virtually any boss(not literally, but alot of bosses lol...)... and they are pretty much the only class that can stand up 1v1 with thief(hypno ftw)...

Clerics arent curently viewed as an alt used as a main.. so taking away enhance would practicly kill the class lol... other than for bosses i guess, but anyways, i think clerics might suprise us in the future(excluding against thieves because they are rediculously overpower...so unless some proposed changes are taken into account for thieves, dont train a cleric past 30, not worth it, ull get clicked anyways /eyes...) as long as a good cleric user is on them..

As for mages, they are fairly dominant to 30 and under classes, but they suck against everyone else (again because everyone and the newbie friends have thieves)... there aop is completely ineffective against thieves and zerkers, but i aint mad at zerkers, they work for their levels as apposed to thieves which are waaaaaaay to easy to train.. but back to mages, there is no point in levling then past 33 unless thieves are changed because your going to get clicked anyway..other than that uber 1+ on your beam when you level, oh... Calculator: 65*7 = 455...hmm about max damage on average crit with a lvl 40 mage... and a lvl 40 mage has 414 hp... hmm... lvl 35 thief/zerk against lvl 40 mage.. ill bet on the thief/zerk..lame... hmmm.. maybe i could buy an item euivalent to the cobalt for mages... but what would such an item/scroll be.. its sooo hard to figure out i mean... if i only had a brain i could see that devastate should be added... EDIT: also, behind zerkers id say they are the hardest class to train.. being because of mana you have to stay close to town... this wouldnt be a problem IF thieves were fixed... but currently You were assassinated by a 7stam thief while you have 21 dex and 155 armor... bs much?

oh, and since were all about letting a single class rape the game's econmy and get uber gold witout a large threat of dieing, why dont we just add paci's to 1a.. i mean the servers screwed anyway.. fix it or add paci's so we can screw it up more...

A little side note:
3-36 thieves, 35 druid, 35 mage, 5-35 thieves, 34 ranger, 34 fighter, 3-34 thieves (one red for 34)... 33 zerk, 3-33 druids, 33 fighter, 2-33 mages, 8-33 thieves... now i could finish 30-32 but i think the picture is clear enough...

The total numbers of level 30+ thieves is 45. Compared to a just 60 of all the other classes combined. A step further, 33+ is a staggering 19 thieves to just 11 of the other classes. So if your honestly to blind to see that there is an advantage to using thieves you need kicked in the face.
...


so ya, lets make some 30-40 crits of each class and test out new items/devastate/whatever else that is brought to attention... id be willing to help try to balance this game, and im sure other players would be just as willing... i mean, how hard can it be?... so create some crits and lets get to testing, unless you dont want to fix this pos game :/...


edit:rangers would obviously need a higher base damage weapon as well as fighters/paladins in the case that other classes(without armor spells) got higher armor to compensate...

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 31 August 2008 - 09:07 PM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

The elaborate L35-40 guild system aint gonna happen. 5 levels times 8 classes means 40 new areas to balance, and staff have trouble balancing the areas already in game let alone 40 new ones. Only doin certain classes is unfair on the others. Stick to coughing up a huge sum of gold and clicking a button.

exactly what i have always thought, it took ages to just get the thief guild into game, so instead of wasting time with such guilds i would suggest that 36 guilds be created with the way you have in mind(will take long enough as it is) and 37+ return to the way they are for 1-35... or atleast something a little easier to add to the game.... obviously by the time people get 40(except on thieves because the 2934 reasons stated all over this forum, 1. dotw 2.click covert 3.excluding zerkers hardest class to pk... ect ect ect ect...........)

[joanna]

to whoever said thieves are overpowered even without dotw - they arnt. look at the stamina levels. Thieves (and rangers)were only given thier first bonus stam at 31 coz everyone thought they were useless. It was only when the playerbase got enough gold to buy DotW's that suddenly the value of the thief increaced. Until then, you were limited by the size of your hp bar (thieves, fighters, zerks, rangers), or your mp bar (dr00ds, mages, clerics, pallies). The one exception was hitting with clerics and pallies and using mana to heal, which extended the life of your bars greatly - the problem was clerics do naff all damage and have crap weapons, and pallies never hit, and when they do its not for much. Using pots/mana to restore your hp/mana bars is a huge drain on your gold - especially with lower level crits that dont make much gold. And an extra 1400 hp or mana does not go that far. With a DOTW you suddenly have INFINITE hp, providing you dont fight things that you cant out-heal. As Scripto said, the only reason thieves are so popular is because of that item. As for rangers, there are very few high level rangers, and training them effectivly needs a very specialised tactic that few people understand fully. As for whoever said it is not because of the dagger its coz thier assass damage is so high, every classes main attack scales with level and if there were level 36 zerks and rangers they would be equally deadly.

to whoever said clerics were useless... only if you have a party of high level theives with dotws. as i said previously, a dotw is the equivilant of loading a cleric alt that has infinite mana. if you use anything but dotw thieves. you need a cleric. if you are gonna hit up the really hard bosses in game, then you need a cleric. the problem with clerics is when the extra stamina was designed, clerics still had the +20 pod, and were the only crits in game with levels over 30, so clerics suffered in the new stamina gains, only gaining at l33 and l37

to whoever said fighters were only bad against things with no armour, all classes except thieves either have high armour or can spell themselves to high armour. And we all know how much people want to make classes better against thieves.

and finally, wait until people who train zerks get hold of cobalt staves. cobalt z00k > dotw th33f.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

ppsshh... shows how much you know... how many 6 stam thieves have you been on?... 6 stam mages? ... dagger of the winds has nothing to do with getting clicked by 7stam dwarves with 155 armor and 21dex(3.8mill equips)... and thats including will with anarchy equiped with hades ammy, not aoh... and besides that, how hard is it to get 350k? pshh.. i had that trainin a cleric to 30 in a few days gametime.. ezpk.. .and zipo/adultery/menelaues/old consumed(angelus)+many more where all trained at the very begining of 1a.. that introduced alot of gold into the game quickly and dotw were always easily obtainable..and id be willing to bet more that 3/4 of 1a would admit that thieves are overpowered.... including the kids that only play on thieves... so if your gonna bring an argument up, back it up a bit... and ah, rangers suck pvp btw.. so again wrong... and zerkers will own.. but they arent being leveled because they are hard to train... thieves are popular because of dotw, but that isnt why they are overpowered...thats why they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy to train(thus the ammount of high level thieves)..the weapon does make the class overpowered, its just the reason there are so many high lvl thieves ingame...

edit:slightly off topic on the cleric part, but im just saying that getting gold for dotw is ez... kthx



..
/t joanna Do you play one alt?

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 02 September 2008 - 02:16 AM.

[Scripto]

I love how mark goes inactive for months, comes back, says nothing productive, dismisses the whole thread and moves on. That's the kind of productive staffing we need to turn this game around.

I have been inactive for months? Can you give me something to show this being as it confused me. Last I knew I was still logging on daily except on the weekends when im at my girls house, and I jump on and read the forum quite often just to try and keep up with everything that is going on.

But anyways, as far as I can look back and see Staff have done everything in there power to try and balance what was screw'd up in 1alt. But as it has been started many many times....

"Its hard to fix something that we didn't have any idea was comming"

We logged on one day just like you guys and it was there. And now everyone is on us to fix something that we don't even have the power to fix. I know Trev alone work for hours when it came out to try and balance out what was possible and all he got outa the it was people yelling about anything he tryed to do or did... and you guys wonder why nothing gets done..

In all...we do what we can and we make list and post over and over again on things we want done and that need to be done in hopes that one day that they might actually be added and fixed and altered or whatever. We are doing are part if you want to believe us or not, but we are trying....


~Scripto

[Gaddy]

Sorry, I can't read the topic, but I have to comment-

To make suggestions, you should be required to be able to spell the key/involved words.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

lets get staff that arent such smart asses? if you did take time out to read he said that he used a mobile phone to type it up...but either way, just read my posts, they are the best ones anyways...

[joanna]

ppsshh... shows how much you know... how many 6 stam thieves have you been on?... 6 stam mages? ... dagger of the winds has nothing to do with getting clicked by 7stam dwarves with 155 armor and 21dex(3.8mill equips)... and thats including will with anarchy equiped with hades ammy, not aoh... and besides that, how hard is it to get 350k? pshh.. i had that trainin a cleric to 30 in a few days gametime.. ezpk.. .and zipo/adultery/menelaues/old consumed(angelus)+many more where all trained at the very begining of 1a.. that introduced alot of gold into the game quickly and dotw were always easily obtainable..and id be willing to bet more that 3/4 of 1a would admit that thieves are overpowered.... including the kids that only play on thieves... so if your gonna bring an argument up, back it up a bit... and ah, rangers suck pvp btw.. so again wrong... and zerkers will own.. but they arent being leveled because they are hard to train... thieves are popular because of dotw, but that isnt why they are overpowered...thats why they are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy to train(thus the ammount of high level thieves)..the weapon does make the class overpowered, its just the reason there are so many high lvl thieves ingame...
edit:slightly off topic on the cleric part, but im just saying that getting gold for dotw is ez... kthx

1) The ONLY reason '7 stam dwarf thieves' even EXIST is because of the vampire dagger. No vampire dagger = no armies of mega high level thieves. Thieves have always been one of the slowest classes to train in main, rangers and zerks of the same level do more damage on average. The fact that the aforementioned thieves then equip a more powerful weapon like an ED and click you is because the vampire dagger allows anyone with 350k and a l25+ thief to train constantly and gain exp faster than anyone else in the first place. Remember a zerker at the same level would have EIGHT stamina....

2) Training a cleric to 30 now is a LOT harder than training it to 30 when the pod bonus was still there. and because you level slower, you make very little gold until you are high level.

3)Your arguments contradict each other. Thieves are only so powerful because they are such a high level. The vampire dagger is responsible for allowing them to get to the high level. Therefore the vampire dagger is responsible for making them so powerful.

4) Not everyone finds it easy to make gold, on either server

[Sublime]

You know what makes high lvl crits so powerful? THEY ARE HIGH LVL CRITS!!!!! What would be the point of training a char up if i couldnt be powerful when i hit lvl 35? mages at lvl 35 are powerful, thieves are, druids are, so lets say remove beam and stormwrath because it's too unfair towards us thieves? *rolls his eyes* How about instead of complaining on the forum, bitching and moaning, you log on the game, go train, make gold, buy crits, items, and get powerful yourself? OH WAIT! That wouldnt give you a pointless topic to pregnant dog about then would it? Staff do what they do, they were put there for a reason, they know how to do their job or they wouldnt be there, so leave them alone, let them do whatever they can do, look back in the history of nightmist, has a topic like this ever done anything besides cause drama until it was deleted? --NO!-- if you don't like thieves, then train a class that has an advantage against the thief, and do something about it yourself, or train a thief, buy a dotw, it's not like the dagger helps as much as all of you think anyway, the damage is terrible unless on a high lvl char, and the vamparic isnt even that much unless you hit high damage, and i'll be damned if someone is going to tell me my dagger is the reason im good, i trained my ass off to get to where i am at lvl 35, the rest of you could do the same thing, so go do it, and quit your bitching.

Peace.

[Cruxis]

Nah, dotw doesn't overpower thieves. It's actually a nice compensation for getting 10k exp per round until 31 (dwarves getting 11-12k)

And their damage isn't all that great compared to other classes against monsters. Any class could've become 35 as fast, or even faster than a thief, it's just few were devoted enough for that long before everyone realized how effortless thieves were. They decided patience + no effort > no patience + hard work. Thief was the 3rd level 35, behind mages and druids.

The problem is that higher stamina and being able to go through armor is instant death, that is something that shoulda been left to the zerks with a low hit rate. Thieves having that and a high hit rate, even if their damage is the lowest of the melee crits, will still click just about anything armor dependant. Some lvl 35 armor is needed, or make thieves go through less armor. They're thieves, not assassins. Dotw lets them be money making thieves, leveling slowly but cheaply. Take away their assassins epic deathness and they really will be thieves.


Also, clerics will be strong, higher levels clerics will fill the line into doing alot more things actually, only 2 or (more likely) 3 level 40s would be needed to keep healed at any boss on 1a with a randomly mixed party (zerks included). Healers are usually less sought after because people seem to perfer attacking classes, this is true for most games out there, which is usually why they aren't too particularly hard to train. The only real problem is that they are pretty much now halted at lvl 30 because only a few active people have one to use, making the cleric boss pretty much impossible without alot of luck. Only (5?) tokens have been gotten so far, the most recent trip lead by me. It was a long wait for all the right people to be on (for 9, over a month x.x) Not to mention the boss takes 3 times as long as any other coliseum boss with the same amount of that class. It's supposed to be about survival, being a good healer, not lasting along time and attacking. Makes it damage slightly higher and cut it's hp, maybe even by half...

Do ittt

Edited by Cruxis, 03 September 2008 - 01:21 PM.

[deadman]

Thieves don't go through 100% of the armor, and their skill being called Assassinate means to kill without being noticed. Not to just do some damage and be seen.