35 replies to this topic

[deadman]

I know its been mentioned in the past, but why is it that for a cleric only token boss where strength isn't exactly needed for cleric and most people don't try to get high strength for them that the boss is not undead. Clerics premarily get experience for healing things not attacking as well so it should be able to be healed to kill.

[Prophet]

'Challenging'

[shomer]

the /read on the square explains it pretty well - it's for clerics who want to prove they can do more than just heal. strength is boosted pretty easily for a cleric anyway

[Cruxis]

I could say many things but it's all been said before of why it's lame and needs to be changed. Though if you get as many clerics together as other coli bosses take (9) then it's so ez rape it isn't funny.

Maybe other coliseum bosses should be looked at first.

Isn't the whole point of the new system to make the coliseum bosses not have to be fixed anyway? 10 minutes of monster changing is wayyy too much to ask, 50+ hours of creating a whole new system with many extra crafting stuffs is more reasonable.

[Apocalypto]

I like how the people that dont have to kill it are so apt to defend it.

[Gnarkill]

I'm up for any change that will bring more cleric play back into 1a, that being said I have not trained a cleric or taken a trip to this boss.. although if I were to make a cleric on 1a I would want perfect strength aswell for the ktp's alone.

An interesting alternative to cleric leveling would be to open up the paci pyramid to clerics only and have the monsters, mini bosses or main boss to have a chance to drop a item or items needed to craft something to exchange for a token at a low drop rate..might need to tame things down a bit in there though so 1 cleric or a small group can make it through(I dunno how hard the stuff would hit without subdue and lots of paci armor lol).

[Tietsu]

I don't see any change is neccissary. Arovet is extremely easy compared to other Coliseum Bosses.

[Prophet]

I like how the people that dont have to kill it are so apt to defend it.

Your right lets make it soloable and 1000 10000 XP POD and it should give you gold everytime you go to fight it rather than paying to fight it...

Sad thing is that you would probably support this because your too busy trying to make the game as easy as possible and complaining about anything that might take a bit of work

In short:

I like it when you shut your mouth when somebody gives an opinion

[Tietsu]

Your right lets make it soloable and 1000 10000 XP POD and it should give you gold everytime you go to fight it rather than paying to fight it...

Supported. Who said intergame suggestions are no good.

Edit: Oh, Ryan did. Pfft.

Edited by Tietsu, 04 January 2010 - 05:14 PM.

[Apocalypto]

I like how the people that dont have to kill it are so apt to defend it.

Your right lets make it soloable and 1000 10000 XP POD and it should give you gold everytime you go to fight it rather than paying to fight it...

Sad thing is that you would probably support this because your too busy trying to make the game as easy as possible and complaining about anything that might take a bit of work

In short:

I like it when you shut your mouth when somebody gives an opinion

I like it when you jump on my sack and get your eyes all watery over a single line post.



/t alec , and i dont see how arovet is "extremely easy compared to the other token bosses", i've killed every token boss and i'd say it and guruk are the 'hardest' two.

[Prophet]

Try it on something other than level 10 clerics then?

[Apocalypto]

Your dumb. Conversation over.

[Prophet]

My point proved quite succintly thank you.

[Apocalypto]

Assuming you meant 'succinctly', my post on the contrary is to point out that your stupid comment has zero weight and i wont be responding to it.

[Prophet]

Assuming you have responded twice now, my post was to point out that you only support things that make the game easier and generally like to pluck 'facts' from thin air, before crying like a baby because somebody is calling bullnuts on these 'facts'.

Of course you won't be responding I'm sure



Edit: Also don't grammar nazi, especially when I'm sure there isn't a single post on this board made by you without a grammatical error in it.

Edited by Prophet, 04 January 2010 - 07:28 PM.

[Apocalypto]

I dont recall stating a single fact? Only thing i stated was the fact that i've killed the boss and its very time consuming. ('hardest', didnt mean it was impossible to do by anymeans, it meant that it takes 15minutes per token with a good party, and requiring 15 tokens JUST to level to 35 --- waiiit a second. arent you the guy that said we shouldnt compare the two games? What you know about 1alt?

[Prophet]

i've killed every token boss and i'd say it and guruk are the 'hardest' two.

An opinion stated as if it were a fact, hence a 'fact'.

Waiiit a second - that was Gaddy I have only restated what he said.

15*15 is 3 hours 45 minutes, you're right that really is a LONG time. Say in comparison to 3hours 45 minutes how long have you spent gatesitting?

The game monster stats are still the same, so if I can do it with 8 clerics on main, I'm sure 8 seperate people can manage it fine. Besides I've played quite 1a alot more than you might think...

All of this is quite inconsequential because by your logic you're not responding and thus I'm theoretically talking to myself

Edited by Prophet, 04 January 2010 - 08:06 PM.

[Apocalypto]

You forgot running pots and nuts, and thats for one characters(10 people taking that long to lvl someone elses character)... like i said, what you know about 1alt?

Edited by Apocalypto, 04 January 2010 - 08:08 PM.

[Autek]

lawl

[Prophet]

Running pots? Its a cleric boss. You sure you've killed it?

Edit: Maybe this is where your going wrong

Bet you've been trying to use mana crystals on your zerk as well

Edited by Prophet, 04 January 2010 - 08:31 PM.

[Apocalypto]

If you dont use pots it takes even longer, numb nuts.

[Sarah]

Running pots? Its a cleric boss. You sure you've killed it?

Edit: Maybe this is where your going wrong

Bet you've been trying to use mana crystals on your zerk as well

Obviously you have not played 1a as much as you think. Have you even done this boss on 1a? We take healing potions as well as mana crystals so that more stamina can be used to attack, thus making the boss take less time. And I have never done Infidel in less than 15 minutes, usually takes more time than that, depending on how many you can get to come.
Getting 10 people together (any fewer and it will drastically increase the time spent per token) for 3 hours and 45 minutes is not easy to do, but again you would not know this because you apparently have not done much on 1a that required a lot of people...
I'm still trying to figure out why you felt compelled to throw in your two cents on this topic.

Back on topic, it never made sense to me why a cleric token boss should be killed by attacking, as their main skill is healing..

Edited by Sarah, 04 January 2010 - 08:51 PM.

[deadman]

I made this post to discuss something not as a bickering post. But to point out something that makes sense on main but does not on 1a. It isn't easy to get a bunch of clerics around to do that boss in the first place. Then if you don't use pots as well it will take forever because of using stam to heal not just attack. You will be healing alot because of the speed of its attacks and damage. For 1a it should be healable to kill. It doesn't make sense that a cleric token boss isn't when that is how a cleric primarily gets experience. It's a necessary thing to kill for cleric tokens unlike main.

Edited by deadman, 04 January 2010 - 09:04 PM.

[Walt]

I think if the Infidel did not have any armor or less of it, the boss would not be such an issue.Even with full strength spells being used, you can still hit for very low numbers or even have all of your attacks absorbed by armor.

I think making it healable would be way too easy, and if that is the case, it would have to heal to be made a challenge then. Knocking down it's armor a bit could settle this issue entirely.

This boss is not hard per say, but extremely tedious.

[Tietsu]

If you treat Arovet like Guruk or Herald, it's the exact same. Toss in several pots, it takes about the same time. I've killed every token boss (to level with) in the game. It's been awhile since I've killed Arovet, I'll give you that, but I don't remember it being hard at all. I wasted 100K the first time I tried it. And it took only one time to realize how to kill it easily.


I'm all for making some token bosses easier to an extent, but there are other ones that need it more than Arovet. Arovet can be killed with 4 Arch Clerics (I've done this more than once) or even less if gold isn't an issue. Same can be said for Guruk/Herald. I think bringing up Arovet is rediculous.

/t Ryan I rate difficulty on the number of folks it takes to kill a boss on a solo game. Is this how it should be looked at? Maybe not, but that's my opinion. It's cool if you disagree, lol.

/t Prophet It takes quite alot of pots to kill Arovet. You'd need to run like a set of lodes (maybe, depending on how many people), but usually a good 20:1 ratio (pots:mana) is used to kill it.

And maybe Walt is right. It is heavily armored, but I still don't see much of an issue with it in general. A SLIGHT decrease in armor is the only thing you'd find me agreeing with about this.

Edited by Tietsu, 04 January 2010 - 11:12 PM.

[Cruxis]

I wouldn't say it's heavily armored. A decent cleric can still hit for around it's usual max, but armor blocking damage at all when clerics have a hard enough time keeping spells up, healing, and attacking, is a nut. People have to use pots to take the healing aspect out of the equation so it's possible without having 10+. But still, atleast it's possible without that many. I'd say making it's armor 0 would be a perfect fix, but, Gristle and Demilich please?
I can slightly understand gristle healing since thieves have a cheap vamp weapon (rangers compensation! 350k 12 bd vamp bow for lulz, spider staff sux). The only reason I can see demilich healing is cause clerics are allowed, but they really shouldn't be anyway, though that's just my personal bias opinion since with the amount of players, damage + pots > cleric. If they must heal, I'd say atleast lower their hp so 2 less crits are needed. If they don't need to heal and it's removed, raise their hp by atleast 50%.

[Oracle]

My experience (talking as a player), really points to the people that are attacking it.

I feel if there were as many characters (of the same level) attacking the Cleric boss as there are when we attack the Zerk/Pally boss, then it would probably take an equalish length of time to kill.

Someone said that Guruk is equally hard: Masta and God_of_Death can kill that just the two of us.

It's all relative to who's hitting it the way I see it. We could Nerf it now, and then loads of clerics would get to level 35 and it'd be a walk in the park. Personally I'm yet to see any real problem with it. If something needed to be changed, I'd be more inclined to think it's the bosses that can heal. But either way it doesn't matter because you can solo level for the same cost using the new system if a boss is literally 'unbeatable' for you.

[Prophet]

Obviously you have not played 1a as much as you think. Have you even done this boss on 1a? We take healing potions as well as mana crystals so that more stamina can be used to attack, thus making the boss take less time. And I have never done Infidel in less than 15 minutes, usually takes more time than that, depending on how many you can get to come.
Getting 10 people together (any fewer and it will drastically increase the time spent per token) for 3 hours and 45 minutes is not easy to do, but again you would not know this because you apparently have not done much on 1a that required a lot of people...
I'm still trying to figure out why you felt compelled to throw in your two cents on this topic.

Back on topic, it never made sense to me why a cleric token boss should be killed by attacking, as their main skill is healing..

The stats of the boss on 1a must be different to main, because I would not use pots at all, on the main one this would be ridiculous it doesn't hit anywhere near hard enough or fast enough to require pots for healing to save stam, in fact if you were to use pots this would save small amounts of stamina and barely speed the process up at all. Say your taking 10 clerics so with holy might that is 40 stam every 10 seconds. He hits 4 times every 5 seconds (Poisons on some attacks for 25 which is minute considering its every 30 seconds) his hits don't do much damage and most of them miss or are absorbed by armor. So remind me again why you would use pots? That means if you have 10 clerics and 40 stamina at most 3-4 stamina are going to be used but most of the time won't be (the stamina cost of casting enhance and holy might is neglible because you'd cast that whether you were using pots or not); so say it takes you 15minutes with pots its now going to take you 16 and a half minutes for each token if you just heal instead, so for 1 and half minutes your willing to spend that much more on pots not to mention the time it takes to run the pots in the first place. I'm just really confused why you would use pots for this boss...


Edit: This is all assuming the stats are the same if they are completely different then I can understand

Edit2: Just read Cruxis' post, but even with 8 clerics its not that much different, pots are just a waste of money for a relatively short time gain especially when you have to counter balance that time gain against the time running pots(and the possibility of someone deleting those pots).

Edited by Prophet, 05 January 2010 - 12:19 PM.

[Apocalypto]

I can agree with alec, alex, and wes that the healing bosses should be changed due to the fact its hard to even kill them period(not for people that can get 10+ easily, obviously). Ideally all the coli bosses should all be similar in statistics, but they are pretty far from that.
I

/t prophet Maybe you should log on 1a and see if the stats are different. By your description i would say they are. For one, the poisons are 45 on 1a, and i'd assume it would be harder in other aspects aswell.


edit:so remind me again why you felt compelled to throw your two cents in on this topic? /wink

Edited by Apocalypto, 05 January 2010 - 05:55 PM.

[Guess]

Obviously you have not played 1a as much as you think. Have you even done this boss on 1a? We take healing potions as well as mana crystals so that more stamina can be used to attack, thus making the boss take less time. And I have never done Infidel in less than 15 minutes, usually takes more time than that, depending on how many you can get to come.
Getting 10 people together (any fewer and it will drastically increase the time spent per token) for 3 hours and 45 minutes is not easy to do, but again you would not know this because you apparently have not done much on 1a that required a lot of people...
I'm still trying to figure out why you felt compelled to throw in your two cents on this topic.

Back on topic, it never made sense to me why a cleric token boss should be killed by attacking, as their main skill is healing..

The stats of the boss on 1a must be different to main, because I would not use pots at all, on the main one this would be ridiculous it doesn't hit anywhere near hard enough or fast enough to require pots for healing to save stam, in fact if you were to use pots this would save small amounts of stamina and barely speed the process up at all. Say your taking 10 clerics so with holy might that is 40 stam every 10 seconds. He hits 4 times every 5 seconds (Poisons on some attacks for 25 which is minute considering its every 30 seconds) his hits don't do much damage and most of them miss or are absorbed by armor. So remind me again why you would use pots? That means if you have 10 clerics and 40 stamina at most 3-4 stamina are going to be used but most of the time won't be (the stamina cost of casting enhance and holy might is neglible because you'd cast that whether you were using pots or not); so say it takes you 15minutes with pots its now going to take you 16 and a half minutes for each token if you just heal instead, so for 1 and half minutes your willing to spend that much more on pots not to mention the time it takes to run the pots in the first place. I'm just really confused why you would use pots for this boss...


Edit: This is all assuming the stats are the same if they are completely different then I can understand

Edit2: Just read Cruxis' post, but even with 8 clerics its not that much different, pots are just a waste of money for a relatively short time gain especially when you have to counter balance that time gain against the time running pots(and the possibility of someone deleting those pots).

You make it way to easy to slam..

Healing takes mana, so instead of taking the extra mana crystals to heal you take pots so you can spend more time attacking... And who he hits is completely random. You probably do it on main with however many 30+ Clerics. On 1a it is made up of mostly 25-30s which makes half of the clerics roundable. You really should stop trying to be the know it all, just because you have put how ever many years of your life into main. 1a is a "completely different game then main".

Basically, quit trying to tell people that they are retarded when clearly most people don't even try to tell you how much of and idiot you are because its just to easy. Just by saying "The stats of the boss on 1a must be different to main" shows that your ignorant enough to come on here and rant without knowing.

Edited by Guess, 05 January 2010 - 06:42 PM.