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Pyramid Of The 3rd Moon


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#1 Crane

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 12:01 PM

Let's be honest now... the Pyramid of the 3rd Moon is seldom ventured into on multi-alt, and is locked off completely on 1-alt. A friend recently tried to navigate around the Tomb of the Cursed, with a map as well, but decided the difficulty level is just too high compared to the prizes involved. Debatable, perhaps, but very few people can complete the area due to its difficulty and the lack of published maps of the Tomb of the Cursed.

To make the area more appealing on multi-alt, and to possibly open it on 1-alt, I would like to make the following suggestions:



Firstly, Ganymede and the Evil Deities need to be nerfed, since their damage is based on the fact that Shield Self protected you quite significantly from the undead (this has now been fixed so it does not protect at all) - even with Subdue cast, one hit from the group will likely kill you, so I would like their damage to be halved, or at least evaluated and rebalanced. This goes for both servers.


My original plan was for Ganymede's drop to be his Staff of Tranquility, a 'weapon' that could be equipped by Pacifists only, and gave +1 ac, +1 Dex and +1 Chr, but there was a lot of resistance to this because of the fact it was still a weapon, so the stats were transferred to what is now the Shaman's Mask (3 armour = Circlet + 1ac). Nevertheless, as there are now a couple of items in the game that can be equipped by Pacifists in the weapon slot, I would like to reintroduce this drop with some modifications... say:

Library info for Staff of Tranquility:
Base damage: 24, Can be used by: clerics, pacifists, Description: The Staff of Tranquility is quite weighty in your grasp and feels like it is made of metamorphic rock. Subdued swirls of silver, violet, blue and teal spiral down the shaft in a manner that is in no way displeasing to the eye. The stave tapers at the top, before spreading small marble arms to grasp a large translucent white pearl of the deep. As a weapon, the head appears quite fragile and hence it is not really designed as such for combat, although the rest of the staff looks more than capable of denting plate armour; as a symbol, however, it is a beacon of peace and hope to all., Level needed to equip it: 31, Magical: No, Vamparic: No, Armor: 1, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Poison chance: 0, Poison/30s damage: 0, Monster damage table: , Mana leech: .


For all classes, base damage and armour count has the effect of boosting the character score, including Pacifists, so equipping it will give the character 25 points (24 + 1). This weapon would be the most powerful weapon for Clerics, excluding the Cobalt Staff and Scepter of Balance, but it lacks the magical properies and the mana leech of the Gem Encrusted Staff, so the crafted weapon is a better choice PvP and against some bosses.

The Shaman's Mask will still drop, of course, but would be 50:50 with the Staff of Tranquility.



I would like the Pyramid of the 3rd Moon to be opened to Clerics and Paladins on 1-alt, with most things inside the pyramid kept the same, along with the introduction of the Staff of Tranquility as above (minus "pacifists" from the class binary), but with the Shaman's Mask modified as follows:

Library info for Shaman's Mask:
Armor base: 3, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, Description: A hardwood mask blessed and enchanted by many spirits and deities. Shamans and open-minded priests alike have used such masks to enhance their rituals and spells, and is only given to those who have already proven themselves. It appears to shimmer slightly when worn., Level needed to equip it: 30, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 1, Absorb spell: 0.02.


Not as powerful as the Antlers for Druids (which are 4ac rather than 3ac), the absorb spell factor won't reduce that much damage, and +1 Chr is only minimally effective for Clerics, although the +1 ac is quite nice.


The entrance message will have to be modified too to mention that only healers of the faith can enter, or something to that effect.


Are these requests reasonable to staff?

Edited by Crane, 25 January 2010 - 12:02 PM.

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#2 SuperJase

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 03:54 PM

Just wondering why you wanted clerics and paladins to enter the area, then made the drop usable by druids and not paladins?

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#3 Crane

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 04:46 PM

Well, Druids are like shamans in a way, hence Shaman's Mask, and the area has an aura of corruption about it that generally only the classes of the cloth can endure and pacify (pun intended). I'm not really wanting Druids to enter the area because they are quite a powerful attacking class and one danger in the area is the risk of running out of mana, something that isn't as big a concern with Druids.

It might be plausible to let it be usable by Druids on multi-alt as it currently stands, since the Stalker's Mask has been approved and introduced (4 ac, +1 Dex), but doing so risks unbalancing things, even if it's very rare, and would most likely have to be evaluated very carefully.

Having a class-restricted area containing a drop that can be equipped by a class that hasn't been included is controversial, I'll admit, but I find it can be quite a good way of increasing an area's value slightly. Similarly, the Staff of Tranquility on multi-alt might find itself on Clerics, even though it requires Pacifists to obtain, although they too can equip it to look snazzy!
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#4 Gaddy

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 07:14 PM

I disagree with adding the Staff of Tranquility to Multi, as pacifists' weapons slot is generally empty.
I understand that you would like them to get some benefit from it, ie- armor and character score, but I think it goes against everything that has been done with the class thus far. They can't even use a Walking Stick.



Further, I think the Pyramid of the 3rd Moon should be opened for clerics and paladins on Multi.
This would make it a rather interesting and possibly well-travelled area of the game. It would not be unbalanced, in my initial thoughts.

However, lock them on a floor or at least out of Ganyemede's chamber, and leave him dropping Shaman's Mask, thus Pacifists would be the only class capable of completing the area.
It would then make sense for multiple character users to team up with or help out pacifists, if the pacifist user wished to ask. I would be willing to help collect some keys, getting my clerics experience.

From what I've seen, there are not nearly enough active players to use pacifists and run through the area, unless using excessive Nightshade Elixirs, etc. I still think it is an entirely possible and reasonable option for the best item the class can get, but perhaps this change would benefit the game in general.
Yes, I understand that this is something that would benefit me since I could then explore the area with my clerics and paladins to gain exp and have fun. All opinions and suggestions end up being bias in some way, but I feel that it still helps other players as much or more than it would benefit me, especially locking Ganymede to pacifist only, as I don't care to collect Shaman's Masks for my boss checking characters.



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#5 Crane

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 10:12 PM

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Pacifists can equip the Walking Stick, along with a few quest items (Broomstick and Cobalt Birthday Cake spring to mind). Europa used one for quite a long time before managing to obtain a rarer item that he could use. Just because they can equip something in the weapon slot doesn't mean it has to be used to attack with. True, most equipment that goes in this slot is designed to hurt, stuff like swords and spears, while some equipment, like the Walking Stick, isn't designed with clobbering in mind, although it can be used as such - Pacifists are just forbidden from thinking of such a use. A similar principle would apply to the Staff of Tranquility... it's meant to be a symbol of peace, and Pacifists would use it for this purpose - Clerics do have the option of defiling it though by whacking things with it.

I'm a bit uncertain about opening the pyramid to Clerics and Paladins on the multi-alt server, but I'd lock them out of the Tomb of the Cursed at the very least, partly because of the unique monsters down there that have virtually no magic resistance for relatively high XP, the large number of Nightshade /examines in the area and the fact that the minibosses are too easy for parties.

Speaking with another staff member and digging up an old post, I would offer a similar compromise with the 1-alt Pyramid, allowing all classes to enter the first two floors, but only allowing Clerics and Paladins into the Tomb of the Cursed. The final floor contains relatively tough monsters, but also a number of ones that are unique to the area (Tortured Mummy and Evil Spirit, along with the coloured mummies) that can be adjusted accordingly.

ADDENDUM: One other adjustment that might have to be made, especially on 1-alt, is the Pharaoh's Pendant, as it is a 3ac amulet.

Edited by Crane, 25 January 2010 - 10:54 PM.

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#6 Crane

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 11:45 PM

Would like to return to this subject since talk of opening the Pyramid of the 3rd Moon on 1-alt has been brought up once again. Not to blow my own trumpet, but since I am the area's designer, I would like to at least be able to offer ideas.

Remembering how tough Ganymede is for a Pacifist, he will certainly be "flashing 5-star" in difficulty for Clerics and Paladins on 1-alt, unless heavily modified. For 1-alt drops, I have a new Staff of Tranquility suggestion and a modified Shaman's Mask suggestion:


Library info for Staff of Tranquility:
Base damage: 23, Can be used by: clerics, Description: The Staff of Tranquility is quite weighty in your grasp and feels like it is made of metamorphic rock. Subdued swirls of silver, violet, blue and teal spiral down the shaft in a manner that is in no way displeasing to the eye. The stave tapers at the top, before spreading small marble arms to grasp a large translucent white pearl of the deep, which shimmers softly with subtle movement. As a weapon, the body of the staff is surprisingly robust and is more than capable of denting plate armour; as a symbol, however, it is a beacon of peace and hope to all., Level needed to equip it: 31, Magical: Yes, Vamparic: No, Armor: 0, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Poison chance: 0, Poison/30s damage: 0, Monster damage table: , Mana leech: 0.05.


Other than the level 31 requirement, this makes the Staff of Tranquility equivalent to the Gem Encrusted Staff.


Library info for Shaman's Mask:
Armor base: 3, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, Description: A hardwood mask blessed and enchanted by many spirits and deities. Shamans and open-minded priests alike have used such masks to enhance their rituals and spells, and is only given to those who have already proven themselves. It appears to shimmer slightly when worn., Level needed to equip it: 31, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 1, Absorb spell: 0.02.


This is very similar to my original suggestion in this topic, although the level requirement is now 31 instead of 30.
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#7 Cadabra

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 02:23 PM

Would like to return to this subject since talk of opening the Pyramid of the 3rd Moon on 1-alt has been brought up once again. Not to blow my own trumpet, but since I am the area's designer, I would like to at least be able to offer ideas.

Remembering how tough Ganymede is for a Pacifist, he will certainly be "flashing 5-star" in difficulty for Clerics and Paladins on 1-alt, unless heavily modified. For 1-alt drops, I have a new Staff of Tranquility suggestion and a modified Shaman's Mask suggestion:


Library info for Staff of Tranquility:
Base damage: 23, Can be used by: clerics, Description: The Staff of Tranquility is quite weighty in your grasp and feels like it is made of metamorphic rock. Subdued swirls of silver, violet, blue and teal spiral down the shaft in a manner that is in no way displeasing to the eye. The stave tapers at the top, before spreading small marble arms to grasp a large translucent white pearl of the deep, which shimmers softly with subtle movement. As a weapon, the body of the staff is surprisingly robust and is more than capable of denting plate armour; as a symbol, however, it is a beacon of peace and hope to all., Level needed to equip it: 31, Magical: Yes, Vamparic: No, Armor: 0, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Poison chance: 0, Poison/30s damage: 0, Monster damage table: , Mana leech: 0.05.


Other than the level 31 requirement, this makes the Staff of Tranquility equivalent to the Gem Encrusted Staff.


Library info for Shaman's Mask:
Armor base: 3, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, Description: A hardwood mask blessed and enchanted by many spirits and deities. Shamans and open-minded priests alike have used such masks to enhance their rituals and spells, and is only given to those who have already proven themselves. It appears to shimmer slightly when worn., Level needed to equip it: 31, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 1, Absorb spell: 0.02.


This is very similar to my original suggestion in this topic, although the level requirement is now 31 instead of 30.



Great ideas Gareth!



Open it to Clerics/Paladins please!
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#8 Apocalypto

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 04:33 AM

Great ideas Gareth!



Open it to Clerics/Paladins please!



/nod
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#9 Horny

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Posted 17 April 2010 - 11:23 AM

clerics only I wanna get baby to 40 before my icecream melts, pallies can train in faravar :P
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#10 Gnarkill

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 09:52 PM

I like the idea of opening it up on 1a, its not being used and is a nice area.

I dislike the idea of opening it up on multi, reason being the monsters are dragable to anything outside of a paci and anyone with a set of pally/clerics could drag the place and make it a pain for anyone wishing to play the paci and get a shaman's mask solo. this would also mean one more boss that could be camped/killed daily by someone with a group of high level clerics/pallys.. Its kinda fun that there isn't a overkill of Shaman's Masks and high level pacifists, the few who have them have had to work for them and since paci's are so easy to level it makes sense to have it be something you have to get on the paci and work for instead of just loading a set of clerics and get it easily.

@ Gareth: I train all my pacis that are 20+ in there and am usually in it daily or atleast every other day either gathering keys or trying to figure it out and work my way to a Shaman's Mask, getting Small Rubys for someone to craft with or just avoiding clogged Rax/IT. I've bumped into a few different pacis on different floors probably 5-10 times in the last two weeks. It is a nice area for pacis to hang when other areas are clogged with healers being trained.

Edited by Gnarkill, 21 April 2010 - 10:00 PM.

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#11 Walt

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 11:17 PM

Opening it up on main would probably be a bad idea as DJ pointed out.

If this area is to be opened up on 1alt, one way to make it a bit easier without changing the mechanics too much is to make non of the mobs draggable. THat way maybe a small party of clerics could go in and have a nice little training area of their own.

I've never been to the paci area on main but one time, and from what I remember, I didn't fair too well. I would have no idea if the boss would be needed to be tweaked, but if it was left alone, and just set to l2l, the realm could get some sort of idea of how many clerics they would need to kill it.

Maybe the only thing the area needs is to set mobs to not drag, and let the playerbase firgure out the rest on trial and error.
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#12 Ember

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:01 AM

Edit: Didn't read above posts, Question I had was already answered.

Edited by Ember, 22 April 2010 - 02:04 AM.

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#13 Gaddy

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:54 AM

I like the idea of opening it up on 1a, its not being used and is a nice area.

I dislike the idea of opening it up on multi, reason being the monsters are dragable to anything outside of a paci and anyone with a set of pally/clerics could drag the place and make it a pain for anyone wishing to play the paci and get a shaman's mask solo. this would also mean one more boss that could be camped/killed daily by someone with a group of high level clerics/pallys.. Its kinda fun that there isn't a overkill of Shaman's Masks and high level pacifists, the few who have them have had to work for them and since paci's are so easy to level it makes sense to have it be something you have to get on the paci and work for instead of just loading a set of clerics and get it easily.

@ Gareth: I train all my pacis that are 20+ in there and am usually in it daily or atleast every other day either gathering keys or trying to figure it out and work my way to a Shaman's Mask, getting Small Rubys for someone to craft with or just avoiding clogged Rax/IT. I've bumped into a few different pacis on different floors probably 5-10 times in the last two weeks. It is a nice area for pacis to hang when other areas are clogged with healers being trained.


1. Monsters following is a monster stat. Making them not follow would be a single command to change that stat.

2. The suggestion to open it to clerics and paladins demanded that the final area be locked to pacifists only. I don't think anyone would support allowing clerics and paladins overrun the single pacifist haven and major boss.

3. You've bumped into people playing in the pacifist only area? Really?
If so, that's cool. I haven't seen many people on pacifists lately.
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#14 Gnarkill

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 06:08 AM

I would like some help atleast with a few questions I have on trying to solo it.. I know there are a few tricks I am just not thinking of and I'm having a heck of a time lol.. but I'm stubborn and told myself for this one I wanna solo it. Yeah I was almost in shock when I saw people too lol I'm used to maybe bumping into Tyler and thats it.. all the sudden I go in to stock up keys for another try one night and someone is at mummified slave leader and one is down on ibis statues. ever since that night there has been a few different pacis I've bumped into (might be the same person on diff pacis) but I know atleast that one night thre was 3 of us in there at once lol.

Edited by Gnarkill, 22 April 2010 - 06:11 AM.

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#15 Cadabra

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 09:05 AM

Any 1-alt staff wanna read over this and give a decision?
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#16 Crane

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 10:32 AM

Only the first two floors on multi-alt would be opened to non-Pacifists if the proposal goes ahead (specifically Clerics, Druids and Paladins, much like the Necromancer Tower), although it would mean Pacifists lose part of their only safe haven. Hopefully though, the area is big enough to keep out of each other's way, especially the second floor - in a way, it's like the Museum was in the days that Pacifists actively used it.

I'm open-minded when it comes to this proposal, though I only support it if the Shaman's Mask can be used by Druids, and possibly the Cleric + Pacifist Staff of Tranquility if players can bear seeing a Pacifist with a bigger walking aid. Also, the Ibis Statues on the 2nd floor would need to be modified so they don't drop Small Rubies, as this is meant to be a Pacifist-only drop. The ones on the third floor would still drop them.

For 1-alt, it would probably be Clerics, Druids and Paladins all the way to Ganymede with different versions of the Shaman's Mask and Staff of Tranquility, as described above... although the "absorb spell" stat might need upping to something more worthwhile (since I've seen an item with it set to 0.2 now). Oh, and the Ibis Statues on the 2nd floor will drop Small Rubies.
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#17 Gnarkill

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 04:55 PM

I still dunno for multi... for me it seems a shame to have to take away a good chunk of the only area thats been made for a class thats underused as it is. Completing the area solo is the only reason im still on my pacis often other than simply using them as checkers. Allowing people to gather all the keys till 3rd floor with a party of 20 cleric/pally/druids makes it significantly easier to level a paci to 31+ because you could spend very little time and kill the key mobs on respawn in a matter of seconds with a big party and then gather 2-4 friends and whip through the 3rd floor on pacis. Just makes it seem too easy and I like the challenge of things I guess lol. Its almost like having another quest to figure out how get a shaman's mask solo on a paci, multi alts takes all the fun out of the area thats meant for a solo class.. you can argue people can still solo it but whats the point when someone will probably come in and ks a boss you've been working on forever on a paci and nab your key lol.

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#18 Crane

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 05:58 PM

As far as I am aware, almost no-one ventures to Ganymede nowadays, and the Pacifist class face more discrimination than ever before. Proposing to allow the Shaman's Mask to be used by Druids was one suggestion to increase the area's appeal, but I think there is uncertainty in doing that when only Pacifists can enter the area. Still, personally, I think I will leave it to the people to decide what should happen to the area.
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#19 Crane

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 02:47 AM

This is a bit of a pointless bump, but I have discovered another 'weapon' that Pacifists are allowed to equip, and this was one that was not designed by me... the Dwarven Tankard.

On subject, I spoke briefly with an old-school player who was a bit confused by the name of the Shaman's Mask because it implied druids - she said that if they could wear it, they would be nigh unstoppable, but when I brought her attention to the similarly named Stalker's Mask, she came across as gobsmacked! In other words, if the Stalker's Mask did not exist, that proposal would be definitely no-go, but as it does exist, the option is more open.
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#20 ice_cold

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:30 PM

If opened on 1-alt the are would need to be nerfed, I remember going on main with a group of pacifists and the mobs hit pretty hard and quick if I remember right. Seems right that paladins and clerics can go in, and though druids have quite a bit more then both classes on 1-alt, they probably would need to help to have a chance in the area. I would think however, that if only 2 classes were able to get drops from the area it should be paladin/cleric driven as druids have quite a few drops. As well druids already have a helm, antlers, which hasn't popped into 1-alt due to lack of effort. My personal opinion on the idea of an item with armor and spell absorb also makes me sad. It should be a choice as to wether you want to protect from spells or attacks, not both. That being said though, I could see staff on tranquility being used by clerics and paladins, then the shamans mask being used purely by druids in a nerfed fashion then as you have recomended it
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#21 Crane

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 03:09 PM

That's a fair statement on the spell absorb / armour front, and the Shaman's Mask being usable only by Druids on 1-alt makes a lot more sense considering its name; what stats would you recommend? The Staff of Tranquility is basically a Gem Encrusted Staff, although giving it to Paladins shouldn't be unbalancing, because they lose a lot of base damage in order to gain mana leeching capability, oh, and a magical weapon.

I sense there won't be many changes on multi-alt for the time being, if any at all, but we'll see.
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#22 ice_cold

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:19 PM

The way I would choose to nerf the Shaman's Mask on 1-alt is make it 3 armor +1 charisma lvl 33 equip
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#23 Crane

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:32 PM

For Clerics and Druids or just Druids? (I'm noticing also that spell-absorbing items are mostly being kept in the realm of quest items)
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#24 ice_cold

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:07 AM

For Clerics and Druids or just Druids? (I'm noticing also that spell-absorbing items are mostly being kept in the realm of quest items)


Just druids. I was working on multi things with a staff member, one of which would have dropped .03 absorb spell rings with no armor, but due to my understanding, Jordan someone who has been numerous times, was able to sway the mind of that staff member saying that it would hurt mages too much (though his mage was able to do over 70 points of damage in a round, or 420 damage with 6 stamina and 490 with 7). It appears the idea of spell absorb has been abandoned for again, ever increasing armor and base damages on weapons.
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#25 Crane

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 12:38 PM

I'm a bit uncertain of essentially making it weaker than the Antlers in all ways because it is exceptionally difficult to get. As a Pacifist you can hit and run Ganymede under Greater Pact, even though it takes well over half-an-hour to kill him that way - with a party of Clerics, Paladins and Druids you have to put up with absolutely insane damage from him and his two Evil Deities and the difficulty of actually getting there. Any changes here on either server will have to be done with extreme care and beta testing.
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#26 Arsenal

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:03 AM

gany was killed on 1a with a party of 6 lvl 30+pally and 2 arch+cleric. barely got him after all our lodes ran out. since then the area's difficulty has been increased significantly. any other ideas about how to make 1a less popular and more difficult?
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#27 Peacemaker

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 05:53 AM

I hear when staff cheat it makes the server less popular. Create less keys plz.
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#28 Cruxis

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 08:03 AM

I hear other reasons :lol:

Anyway, if the area could be done with just 2 clerics and 6 paladins, it needed to be upped for the best cleric helmet ingame besides a questie. I'm not sure about the armor of the end boss, but I'm sure a druid would be more effective than a paladin. Cleric is constant badass damage with a stam regain spell though, use more of them if anything. I'm sure 8 strong clerics would still pwn the area, though maybe not, I wouldn't know.

I'd log on to help kill stuff, but that title, or lack of a certain title maybe, at the end of my character description seems to set some people off, and ultimately prevents me from ever hitting 36 or getting that shiny drop. Cool story. Hello main :lol:

#29 Perfection

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:12 AM

Support for adding and changing it for 1-alt server.

This area can be done alone on multi, i've done it lots of times!
The damage from monsters on mutli could be fix, but it is still do able.. with difficulty.

I don't support pallys and clerics being able to go here on mutli server.
Pulsar, Gremlin or Old_Dog in game. (multi alt only)

#30 Perfection

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 06:09 AM

so did any changed ever get made here? just curious.

i still run my pacifists around this area but have not killed the boss in... years.
Pulsar, Gremlin or Old_Dog in game. (multi alt only)




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