8 replies to this topic

[Banishment]

So, Im not sure how reducing the 10-ish training weapons effectiveness is better than simply taking a look at different weapons and trying to make them usable. Im mainly looking at the Celestial Rapier, but this can include every other rapier.

From another post on Erebus Lance, "Why is the answer to everything a nerf instead of looking at the items that dont perform well and bring them up."

Dragonclaw Scythe, Dragons Breath, Kuraokami no Tsurugi, Bow of Artemis, and Norinths Bane didnt need training weapons nerfed for them to be great endgame weapons.

Looking at one of the rapiers (I dont remember the name), it has a 1.5 dragon mod and isnt magical. Why? The stats it gives, if any, arent worth equipping; none of them are.

I played a bit with the new Phoenix Talons. While having way fewer mods than any other crafted weapon, it does have training potential. Its just a shame that you have to be level 34 to use it and then bench it after 3 levels when the druid reaches endgame. (No amount of equipment can save this class.) Imo they need a 30 bd weapon with more str mods, no vamp, to make up for not getting 8stam at 40.

I don't think slapping a 1.5 mod on rapiers is going to save them(especially with those monster tables), for the same reason you had to increase Ilythiiri Keeshe mod to x2

Oh and druid already had an insane training weapon(Erebus Lance) until it was nerfed at the request of a main player.

TLDR, legacy weapons still just crafting materials, 8-ish rapiers still useless and the training weapon nerf was unnecessary; other crafted weapons just need to be better.

Edited by Banishment, 20 January 2026 - 12:12 PM.

[Bane]

The real question is, why were they nerf'd on main server when no one uses them anyway   

[Gaddy]

Which Main player requested nerfing of weapons or training gear? They should be on everyones PK list for that nonsense.
Neither Main or 1-Alt seems to need to be made less playable or to have training drawn out even more. I do not know why the training weapons were nerfed, butso it goes.

[Gaddy]

Looking at the other post, it seems like you think I requested the Erebus Lance nerf. Thats a complete misunderstanding of the situation.
I pointed out Boo to staff as a crit that appeared to have too much XP for the game time. I was saying that I thought staff or someone may have cheated. I flagged similar concerns with staff behavior earlier on 1-Alt and Main.

As I said in that post, I am in favor of faster training, and I didnt ask or bring up nerfing the Erebus Lance. I disagree with making training even more of a grind.

However, Stig said he thinks it is good for leveling to be such a long task in that post. And even though it seems like he is the only one with that opinion, hes the one who decides about updates. So, we are all out of luck on the topic unless he feels differently one day

[Nerve]

So, Im not sure how reducing the 10-ish training weapons effectiveness is better than simply taking a look at different weapons and trying to make them usable. Im mainly looking at the Celestial Rapier, but this can include every other rapier.

From another post on Erebus Lance, "Why is the answer to everything a nerf instead of looking at the items that dont perform well and bring them up."

Dragonclaw Scythe, Dragons Breath, Kuraokami no Tsurugi, Bow of Artemis, and Norinths Bane didnt need training weapons nerfed for them to be great endgame weapons.

Looking at one of the rapiers (I dont remember the name), it has a 1.5 dragon mod and isnt magical. Why? The stats it gives, if any, arent worth equipping; none of them are.

I played a bit with the new Phoenix Talons. While having way fewer mods than any other crafted weapon, it does have training potential. Its just a shame that you have to be level 34 to use it and then bench it after 3 levels when the druid reaches endgame. (No amount of equipment can save this class.) Imo they need a 30 bd weapon with more str mods, no vamp, to make up for not getting 8stam at 40.

I don't think slapping a 1.5 mod on rapiers is going to save them(especially with those monster tables), for the same reason you had to increase Ilythiiri Keeshe mod to x2

Oh and druid already had an insane training weapon(Erebus Lance) until it was nerfed at the request of a main player.

TLDR, legacy weapons still just crafting materials, 8-ish rapiers still useless and the training weapon nerf was unnecessary; other crafted weapons just need to be better.

 

I haven't used Phoenix Talons yet since it has yet to drop other than the first kill so I can't really give an opinion on them when it comes to performance but I agree Druids need a Dragon's Breath style - Druid only weapon. They suffer same problems fighters do but worse (on 1a the Dragon's Breath and the Kuraokami no Tsurugi makes fighters actually feel like a useable class), which is the armor blocks but also only having 7 stamina, so 4 stam regains forever.

 

The talons appear to be a really good training option but I agree they should be a little lower equip level. But I still think they need another weapon for maybe 35 or 36+ (could even be Phoenix Talons being more expansive on the monster tables, upping BD if adding another weapon isnt an option.)

Does not even need vamp imo, I just want a good weapon to make it worth leveling a druid.

 

Most people on 1a have no desire to level to 40 either on a druid since its not worth all the gold required for the level 40 item being the only thing they get out of 3 more levels.

 

Erebus Lance needs to be usable on druid again, having that removed, removed a good amount of training options. (I really only play 1a so this is my opinion when it comes to that server and not main, could be for main as well if it helps I just don't know since i dont really play or have a party higher than 25 for the most part.)

 

I've been playing NM for 20+ years so I agree anything that makes training slower just makes me not want to play anymore. I enjoy making new characters, so completed character to 40 just gives me more time to work on other characters like the new races.

 

As for the rapiers I don't think any of them are good enough to use for training or bossing currently. Very lackluster weapons at the moment. monster tables are strict and really things we would either never hit or just not practical - Monsoon Rapier for example is balrog:1.5|dragon:1.5|flame:1.5

 

Dragon being the only slightly usable one, but if im not mistaken dragons have a damage resistance to physical if the weapons are non magical (I dont remember the %)

 

I was hoping (still am actually) that the slight nerf to training weapons was going to make the endgame weapons stronger have more 2x modifiers on them. I dont like the idea of shop bought weapons being better than almost everything, sure I really like them for training lower level characters up into the 30s but there should be a transition into better weapons for all classes instead of the level 25 training weapon til 40.

Edited by Nerve, 21 January 2026 - 03:13 PM.

[Banishment]

Looking at the other post, it seems like you think I requested the Erebus Lance nerf. Thats a complete misunderstanding of the situation.
I pointed out Boo to staff as a crit that appeared to have too much XP for the game time. I was saying that I thought staff or someone may have cheated. I flagged similar concerns with staff behavior earlier on 1-Alt and Main.

As I said in that post, I am in favor of faster training, and I didnt ask or bring up nerfing the Erebus Lance. I disagree with making training even more of a grind.

However, Stig said he thinks it is good for leveling to be such a long task in that post. And even though it seems like he is the only one with that opinion, hes the one who decides about updates. So, we are all out of luck on the topic unless he feels differently one day

 

Yeah it was just a little jab.   Im still salty about druid being removed from it then, I stopped playing my main which was a druid then and haven't touched it since.  Just an awful class to try and train on 1a given their weapons.  I didn't know training weapons were also nerfed on main, I don't play it so I don't have much of an opinion on it.  I've personally always disliked training weapons being shop bought, now there's no achievement of obtaining a new powerful weapon when you can just buy one at level 25 and use it all the way to 40.  Which is why I started complaining a bit more about drops like Celestial Rapier, Ceramic Javelin, Sovereign Sword, Sword of Light, Sword of Existence, Blade of Time and the other 6 or so Rapier's being weak as hell in comparison now, and mostly serve as crafting materials(Except for the Rapier's, these actually have no use). 

 

I wouldn't mind the nerf if the multiple different Rapier's also covered these same mobs or atleast monsters worth training on and was 1.8-2.0.  Many of these weapons with 1.5 mod and 27-30 bd are still outclassed by 20-25 bd training weapons, so really the nerf didn't make any of them more desirable, just gave us even slower leveling. 

Edited by Banishment, 22 January 2026 - 02:50 PM.

[Gaddy]

Yea, damage multipliers are way more powerful than base damage or stat mods. It definitely makes many boss drops feel pretty pointless in comparison.
On Main, thats kind of balanced with crafting and coin trades, but it would make it harder if it took a group to get the drops rather than being a quick solo run like it is on Main.

[Bane]

I wish we had more crafted weapons for certain areas around the map. It would add so much more strategy, diversity and fun to the game. The Obsidian Bow was an amazing addition to the game, but it was very disheartening to learn that it was a quest drop and not a crafted item.

 

I feel like grinding out nice weapons and smacking certain bosses with the bigger damage numbers are the only dopamine left in the game for me sadly, because it certainly isn't killing the Grande Inquisitor 20million times to have it not drop the warrant I need.

 

It would also be cool if Rangers had a bow that works similar to Torch since their Flaming Arrow doesn't act like this, something I feel should have been added to the game in it's infancy.

Edited by Bane, 23 January 2026 - 08:27 PM.

[Gaddy]

I agree.

 

Area Mastery and Area-Weapons:

Area-specific gear seems like the next step in making it to where the game has longevity, and crafting would be a route to force that to be a mastery topic. (e.g. - You've beaten the area and bosses enough to craft gear they drop into gear to kill them more quickly.)

 

Torch:

Rangers and mages would benefit greatly from a "Torch" replacement since Flaming Arrow and Flame do not have the modifiers they would in a more sophisticated system. Sadly, it seems very doubtful since rangers get a lot of bias against them since old times had them OP and PK-focused. 

 

Mana:

I think another concept would be to have more monsters drop mana. The sprinkling of gold-swap drops around the game has been a nice innovation, and I think players have gotten used to them enough for it not to be making tons of litter, but Short Swords, Spider Venom, and some others still seem too frequent for the low value and inventory space. I'd rather see large mana drops off training monsters so that mages and clerics could have more sustainable training.

This would better balance mana-users in training, especially in areas that require keys or longer trips to reach. It doesn't boost their damage or speed - just ability to participate by having mana be less of a constraint.

Mana drop recommendations: Pygmy Statues, Torturers, Modern Art Sculpture, Demonic Soldiers, Tomb Spirits, Skeleton, etc.

 

 

Of these, I think the area-specific weapons would be the best addition. In my opinion, more multipliers make things more fun to make, and I think more crafted gear extends the game well.

You can also adjust which classes can use the weapons as a way to support class diversity, training, etc.