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        Individual Class Discussion >> Mage Class Discussion >> Mage Class Discussion
        
(Message started by: Pandilex on 11/25/03 at 14:20:57)
Title: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Pandilex on 11/25/03 at 14:20:57
To further improve the balance of classes in Nightmist, I'd like everyone who visits this forum to post, sensibly, what changes they believe should be made to mages. How are they overpowered? How are they underpowered?

I'd like information in great detail, and I'd also like to know how you think they weigh up against the other classes. Which other classes are more powerful? Why?

I need to know how I should change the class to improve it further. To make it easier, I'm asking everyone who has played or played againsit a mage to post their opinions.


To structure this thread better, I would like people to use bullet points to state each piece of information clearly.

If you agree or disagree with another person, simply state that you disagree with [this statement] because ____

If you don't stick to this I will delete your posts, regardless of their contents, because I need to be able to read the information easily, and it makes it much easier when I can see clearly which suggestions are favoured by the majority.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Eternyte on 11/25/03 at 16:40:35
1) Mana cost needs to be lower. Beam costs 17 mp to cast, and does about 40 damage. Divine restoration and Aid cost about 7/8mp and heal for about 50(paladins), 100(DR) and 80(Aid) for clerics. Healers out heal mages damage, making them useless.

2) Mage get fizzled much to much, I have experienced numerous round of fizzles/resists. Highly unlikely the amount of times it happens is bad luck.

3) More spells doing various things, I've posted numerous times on the forum about mages having a fairly fixed damage. Intelligence needs to effect damage more. As everyone uses a dexternity amulet, if 1int = 5 more damage, maybe mages would used an amulet that was designed for them.

4) AoP doesn't seem to filter out as many blows as it used to. Regularly rangers/berserkers hit full rounds, which didn't use to happen.

5) Make haste to boost mages stamina back to 5.

6) Gives mages the ability to make a whole party invisible for a period of time. Failing this because I know it would make PKing/Hit and Runs worse. Give them a party protect spell, where they would be unable to be attacked or attack for a short period of time. It would also tell the room when it wore off.

7) Change vortex gate. It's a very under used spell. It's only able to be used at bosses really. However takes you to Boar's Tusk, in Nightmist. When logging off takes you back to local. Maybe have it like the old Nightmist of transporting a party (Only to a place visited by the mage), but have it cost 50mp per party member. So only 6 players can be ported at any one time because the mages mana pool is restricted.



*Please note I have considered this class and information within from an unaided point of view*
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Epic on 11/25/03 at 19:56:37
Now i dont own a mage of my own i just have access to an arch that the guy doesnt use no mo..

Mages mana cost just way to much for everything, you end up spending a nuts load of gold on mana for a mage to run around with and for the cost of their spells you run around with like 12 mana and 2 pots to heal with..cmon now

..PeAcE

Maybe have it so they can only cast invis on themselves..
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Stotic on 11/25/03 at 23:10:41

on 11/25/03 at 19:56:37, Epic wrote:
Maybe have it so they can only cast invis on themselves..

I agree with that.

-Lower mana costs.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silex on 11/29/03 at 07:35:04
-camo for druids isn't the same as for mages invis. dont take away their ability to make other crits invisible, it'll just make everyone go back to druid and thief hit and runs...i prefer the variety of people popping out of no where after me.

-lower mana costs

-make a spell that lets them increase their intel. for a period of time similar to enhance, but less int. increase, at arch for maybe int. x 1.15 or something like that...(if i am doing my math correct)...cast only on themselves of course, maybe like i suggested, spell named Enlightenment around lvl 15.

-give them a way to get from lvl 1 to lvl 10...honestly i dont think i will ever want to spend the ammount of time it takes me to make enough gold to buy an arch crit instead leveling a mage to 10.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by alicia on 12/07/03 at 03:06:13
mages making others invis is probably their only useful skill now

if they cant do that wot are they useful for? and dont say getting AoP scroll, ok you need a mage to get it, but the only reason you bring a mage there is to cast them 2 vortex gates, apart from that you just make the mage invisible all the time.. mages shoudnt be only useful 'coz u need one' it should be 'coz you WANT' one
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Diagonyte on 12/09/03 at 15:16:28
Mages need to get a spell before lvl 15 cause its a blip tryin to lvl with shock there hp sux but i guess its soposed to i agree with what Eternyte says about lowering the cost of mana been a while since i had i high lvl mage but i think they hould also have more spells besides just attack and the ones they have an effect to give a reason to play.Now ill go both ways with the invis thing 1. keep it the way it is 2. it'll mage things a bit more fun and easier to pk people ect. but seeing as my mages only lvl 11 ima shut up now :S (anyone wanna tell me a good place to train it :))
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Melfice on 12/09/03 at 15:37:11
Arilin forest with a party
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Diagonyte on 12/11/03 at 15:32:09
Thx




~Baker~
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Evilcloud on 12/20/03 at 07:52:57
I dont think it would hurt to have a new spell for lvls 29 or 30 either... With all the fizzles and crap they could at least hit harder.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Jace_Risky on 12/23/03 at 04:34:17
I would have to say that they need more spells a bit early in training, for example, a spell that cause them to not fizzle as much, or an offense spell that they learn at lvl 5 or so called frost and other things related to the elements, fire, ice, water, wind, earth, just use your imagination.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Monte on 01/09/04 at 05:18:25
I don't mean to sound impatient, but how long do you suppose it's going to be before any changes are actually implemented? Something needs to be done about them aready. They're harder to lvl than any other crit, and for what? Spells that fizzle? And lets not forget the mighty Devestate that only a select few mages have gotten. Boy, I wish I were friends with Pandilex.... I believe that they should be more powerfull than other classes because they are harder to train. Not overpowered mind you, but something. Come on.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by rebel_blaidd on 01/10/04 at 18:36:58
what about some cantrips like a reward for leveling a mage mages have always been hard to level but say at lvl 5 you could get swarm or somethin that confuses an enemy for a couple of rounds or something i think all the classes need to have less big gaps between skills/spells
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Admetus on 01/18/04 at 01:30:50
I think mages are great and are my favorite crits to train . But a couple things really disturb me.

1. a zerker with high wiz (17-18_ lvl) 18+  can take out mages who r around lvl 25. I mean cmon Zerkers get SO MUCH HP and then they attack for SO MUCH. mages should have special dodge rates on zerkers cuz of low hp.

2. Mages hp suz ass. I mean they have about no armor  max of like 48. i say you should have it that in an update according to a mages lvl they get a certain amount of hp say a lvl 30 mage before update has around 230 . IT will get like 100 hp  while a vll 15 will not get as much cuz it will get increased hp from lvling after u[pdate.

3. If your not going to change the hp AT LEAST give mages more armor cuz i mean C'MON 48?  my ranger has more and hes only like 20 atm. Plus the high lvl zerkers. its just way too negative for neone to make a mage. Give them more armor  for example instead of golden cloak having 30 armor, increase it to 150 because they have so low hp they need about 2x as much protection as ne other class.Plus aura of protection is not as effective as it used to be (like eternyte said) which really makes mages bait for almost all characters ingame(exception of paci's,palladins, and clerics).

4. increase spell damage!!!!!!! almost all the people in nm have maxed out wiz. you barely hit for 70 nowadays on people so either like up the damage or lower the amounts of resists and damage lowering of a crits wisdom.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Eternyte on 01/18/04 at 10:43:17
I agree basicly with what your saying, armor should be increased slightly. However, at level 28 you get Aura of Protection, which increases your armor x 2.5 this isn't as effective as it once was though.

Even mages quest armor is the same as armor bought from shops, which I disagree with.

Would be nice for beam to hurt other races and classes at the same rate that is hurts pacifists, even with max wis of 20 at level 30, is does damage of about 70+, even though it's reflected to caster.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Snowy on 01/18/04 at 15:33:29
I ve seen SO MANY great ideas to improve mages, but still they SUCK!! and are hard to train, i m really suprised that nothing have been done to improve them. Never seen such a unbalanced class in any game.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by CPG on 01/18/04 at 20:09:22
Class development has been halted.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by the Kiheitai on 01/25/04 at 17:21:34
-Mages do not need high HP. They survive by casting protection spells on them to avoid getting hit, they need higher mana pools to keep themselves alive, and if all else fails, a mage in a tough spot can cast invisibility on himself.

-Vortex Gate should be changed, it must be used on full stamina and drain 200 to max mana and can be used anywhere to transport the mage back to local. Mages are not designed to fight punch for punch, they are oppurtunists like thieves, and need to flee when necesary.

-Beam, at level 25 a mage attains his highest (currently) spell. It also cost 17 mana, which is just a bit high considering its their only offensive tool. Lower mana costs on most spells, like what was done with Clerics/Paladins heal, aid, DR.

-Stamina, it is hard as everything to train a mage to level 10 with only 1 stamina. Then you have to get to level 15, using the same measly 15 damage with shock, just so you can increase to a new spell. Then you still have 3 more levels before your 3rd stamina. A level 25 mage, with his best (currently) spell still only has 3 stamina, and unless under haste, regens 2. That cannot even compete with any other class out there.

-The point is a mage is not an all out offensive weapon, and needs to have more party friendly abilities to help boost their worth.

Feel free to coment as you wish.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Snowy on 01/25/04 at 17:52:42
It would be nice if Vortex would be the way u say, altough make it so that when u cast it it gives a list of main towns and u chose one of them, so it wont be same as pacis spell, a bit better.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by xcelon on 02/02/04 at 12:44:05

on 12/09/03 at 15:16:28, Diagonyte wrote:
Mages need to get a spell before lvl 15 cause its a blip tryin to lvl with shock

I agree, trying to lvl with shock is  :P. Mebbe we should have another offensive spell, at lvl 5 maybe?
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Rosso on 02/02/04 at 12:58:23
The spell flame should work like the torches in the swamps.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by alone on 02/02/04 at 13:21:41

on 02/02/04 at 12:58:23, Rosso wrote:
The spell flame should work like the torches in the swamps.


Been said alot of times in the past, unfortuantly, it'd mean redoing some of the coding just to get that one change (at least I believe it would, from previous threads), and so it was decided to not happen.. And it'd make Mage training up to 25 far far too easy.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silverwizard on 02/03/04 at 19:18:08
I agree with most of the ideas here except that mages do not need more HP. Though there is one thing: Mages can eat half-orcs unless the half-orc acctually gets an attack off at the mage where the mage is dead quickly.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Snowy on 02/05/04 at 18:53:19
and human zerkers can eat mages, there are always stuff that eat each other
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silverwizard on 02/05/04 at 19:50:26
Anything but half-orcs eat mages. Half-orcs are eaten so no one really uses them (or at least that was the complaint about them when they were made).
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Mip on 02/11/04 at 01:35:03
I've actually leveled a few mages (One to 25, one to 30 and one to 28) so I think I have legitament grounds to complain on.

  • I don't mind mages HP too much (although it could be better).
  • I feel that their mana costs/maximum mana are over/under what they should be, respectively.
  • I think there should be a larger variety of rings/amulets that are purely mage-only.
  • I'd like to see more spells that do a variety of things.


That's all I can think of now. If more thoughts hit me, I'll post again.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silverwizard on 02/11/04 at 02:14:57
Wow I can't even get my mage to lvl 23 and I am a mage lover who plays fantasy games for the mages mostly and I almost only play fantasy games.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Vengence on 02/11/04 at 02:35:59
So far, every game I have played BESIDES nightmist, mages own...they are usually the best class...in nightmist they suck...horribly...
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Mip on 02/11/04 at 03:59:30
When I had Mip, he could hold his own against a lot of fighters (with his AoP).

Mip could even take down some rangers and the occassional thief (if he were lucky).

They didn't suck per se, just...got left behind?
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by CPG on 02/11/04 at 17:12:39

on 02/11/04 at 01:35:03, Mip wrote:
  • I don't mind mages HP too much (although it could be better).
  • I feel that their mana costs/maximum mana are over/under what they should be, respectively.
  • I think there should be a larger variety of rings/amulets that are purely mage-only.
  • I'd like to see more spells that do a variety of things.


::nods::
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silverwizard on 02/13/04 at 02:45:17
I am in agreement with Mip on this one but I have campaigned for over a year (well except for the time I left) but the staff just don't learn.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Vagabond on 02/16/04 at 12:38:14
Stop ya moaning, if mages suck so much dont bother getting one i personally find my lvl 29 very useful.

For those who think they should be easier to train EAT ME!!! at least there is 1 class that you actually have to have major patience and even some skill to train.. as well as gold for mana.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silverwizard on 02/16/04 at 17:54:20
You know what, if there is no point to the class because it is hard to train because it is too feeble then why is it there? Druids used to suck but were given a makeover and now are good do the same for mages please.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Deval on 02/17/04 at 02:28:53

on 02/16/04 at 17:54:20, Silverwizard wrote:
You know what, if there is no point to the class because it is hard to train because it is too feeble then why is it there? Druids used to suck but were given a makeover and now are good do the same for mages please.


Druids didn't suck, Druids were good, my 28 druid with hawk talon, before the update of them, pwned. Before the update, nobody really had any idea, next to noone had bothered to level one, and instead complained about them being too hard to train when they had no first hand experience. The problem with them was some of their spells were uselessly underpowered, and the morph system (which was 400% more entertaining/cooler than the current one) was a little expensive. A major problem was the lack of an impressive weapon for training before moving to the morning star, which was rectified by the Hawk Talon. That old druid of mine is now Illidian or whatever it's name is, belongs to Mark now.
Title: Re: Mage Class Discussion
Post by Silverwizard on 02/17/04 at 03:00:48
Exactly no one wanted to train them because it was nigh immpossible and yes I do run a druid, I bought a decent lvl 18 old druid for 13k I mean come on that is nothing. The mage has no decent weapon because it is cancled out by the mana they need.


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