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Topic: Mages Recap!! (Read 470 times) |
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Eternyte
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Mages Recap!!
« on: 10/27/03 at 13:57:51 » |
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This is just a recap of my thoughts I have posted on mages. I post this because nothing has been done, and they seem to just fade away. It was also less time comsuming than looking for all the great ideas that seem forgotten.
on 03/10/03 at 12:04:57, Eternyte wrote:Ok recently myself and numerous other mage users have posted about the amount of times that mages fizzle, get resisted, counter spelled, and get partially resisted
Ok you could argue that mages are the most reliable class, but it seems to be that the word "Luck" doesnt play much part in it.
Quite regularly I have done round of no damage what to ever, and lets face it....would an expert magic users ever really get resisted, or fizzle. I think not.
More and more classes are becoming able to take on mages, even with Aura casted.
For example Paladins and Clerics can rip a mage apart without trying to hard. Especially when they heal for more then beam does to them, and uses less stamina (per round of dmg, per that of heal) and mp....and they fizzle a lot less, and how often do you see a heal resisted.
Mages seem to have too many variables in their spell casting in recent times.
With the recent introduction of Berserkers, them to with no armor have the upper hand on mages. For instance...an Arch gnome mage would beam an Arch dwarf Zerk for about 53, however the zerk has 500hp, and apparently Smite ignores armor class. Even so the zerk's hp is double that of the mages, which makes them yet another nemesis.
You could say yes with 22 dex and 130ac, Rangers, Fighters and Druids miss Mages a lot. However, with Clerics stat enhances they pretty much take mages apart also.
Mages dont get any enhancers that boost their damage.
I for one am eagerly awaiting Devastate, but I feel it has been a very long time in coming, in comparison with Divine Restoration, which has been out for many months now.
Yes perhaps I am a main mage user, and perhaps I wish for mages to have the upper hand, but that is the way it should be, and the way it always has been.
For the people who dont own mages I will try to enlighten you as to why you dont have one.
1. They are very difficult to level, perhaps not to much at lvl 25+, but until then they take a long time.
2. They cost a lot to train, buying enough mana, and pots to sustain them until you reach a high level costs you fortune.
3. Maybe now because other classes seem to have the upper hand over them, people no longer need mages, except maybe for vortex and invis.
I havent thought about how I would fix this problem, but maybe a lower cost of mana for spells. Or a lower resist/counter spell/fizzle rate. Maybe spells could vary from class to class, as well as wisdom (if its possible), e.g. Berserker with 18 wis gets Beam for 70, whereas a Fighter with 18 wis gets beamed for 55, or something along those lines.
Maybe even spells to increase intelligence and wisdom, to increase defence and offense.
Please post your opinions, but preferably if you have the use of a high level mage that you use regularly, so you know what your talking about, and not making subjective comments because you feel your only level 30 crit should be the best.
Thanks!!  |
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on 04/02/03 at 00:09:23, Eternyte wrote:Why is it that a Druid can get more armor class than a level 30 mage with Aura of Protection casted. If you ask me it's totally insane.
Recent test shows that a halfing druids gets 122ac with basic equipment, and 148 ac with sg's aoh and 4 cr's.
THIS IS STUPID!!! How can a druid out cast an armor spell than a master magic user.
No way should druids get more ac than a mage.
If Druids continue to have 148 ac, mages with AoP should reach in excess for 250.
A level 30 mage, with basic equipment Aura of Protecion gives them a pathetic 75 ac.
With sg's, aoh, and 4 cr's the mage achieves 115. Still poxy in comparison with a Druid.
Many players have agreed with me that recently mages have become mainly usable just for invisability. They are losing their worth.
Maybe this post belongs in discussion because it moved onto mages. However it's blatantly obvious to see something must be done about mages been out spelled by druids. |
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on 04/29/03 at 22:07:05, Eternyte wrote:I disagree with mages getting stamina earlier, as I like the difficulty mages are to train. However I do think at level 30 they should reap more rewards.
I dont think they need higher hp, or higher mp either. Although like I have stated in previous posts I think mana costs for spells should be lowered greatly.
Recently I have been thinking about mages from a more realistic point of view. This being that they are very feeble, and get hurt by damage greatly. However are extreamly devastating and powerful magic users.
I've been contemplating that Aura of Protection be changed very slightly, i.e. it is no longer a personal armor spell for the mages. Maybe it should be changed into a party protection spells, creating a force field or a magical aura around the party. This would be like a mass invisibility without the huge pking advantage as the party would still be visible just protected.
Then the main armor spell (if any at all is kept) would be mana shroud. This would give everyone a decent advantage of beating a mage. By rounding it or by other means, due to their lack of endurance.
This I feel should only happen if spell costs are lowered, thus mages could carry more needed pots in duels.
Then I would like to see other spells from other posts being implemented.
Slow, Vamparic spell, Mana leech wepon, Haste (changed so mage regains full stamina), square damaging spell (like devastate pre-reset), the changed Aura of Protection, and the major boss drop of the current devastate.
You might argue that these spells would overpower mages, but with their decreased armor they would be more suspect to critical hits. However, if the class attacking messes up they will be destroyed.
These spells would also enable mages to have a go at taking on parties, most people feel they should be able to do so. However, with that chance comes the fear of the party killing the mage, once again due to lower armor, therefore more likely to die.
This would also add to mages being more tactical in winning duels, instead of casting haste and armor, then beaming and hoping for the best.
In the hands of a good magical tactician the mage would be powerful, in another hands it would be useless.
What do you think? |
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Eternyte
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #1 on: 10/27/03 at 14:00:37 » |
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Continued....
on 04/04/03 at 09:17:18, Eternyte wrote:Mages stamina is fine. It makes them harder to train, thus making a lot tougher at level 30.
In my opinion mages need a lower spells cost. With Beam costing 7mp, and Devastate when it arrives costing 10mp.
Also I would like to see numerous new spells to be added. Perhaps a party protecting spell i.e. Sanctuary.
A level 28 spell, Fireball...same damage as beam but in same fashion as rapid fire (would leave mage unable to move if he kills after 1 fireball, would also use the extra mana of 4 that were not needed.
I think mages need to be able to take on large parties by themselves, you could ague that due to mages cost, and difficulty of training this should be present anyway, however as I have stated before Nightmist is not like other rpg's where mages are the dominant class.
Also along with the taking on party theme, I think mages should be given a trial run with slow. Where the person casted on only gets 1 stamina regain for a short period of time. Can only be recasted after it were's off. When it does the person it's been casted on gets full stamina instantly.
I would also like to see Aura of Protection upped greatly. As Druids can out spell a mage which is just plain obscene.
I have many more ideas for mages, some I have already posted before. Things need to be done. Balance is one of the highly talked about topics within the realms, but it happens in the wrong way. If every class is balanced whats the point? In my opinion they should be balanced on the difficulty of training, and how much they cost to use. |
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on 07/10/03 at 18:08:26, Eternyte wrote:Ok, firstly I have been away in Greece for a while, so I have missed out on things happening, and have therefore been unable to comment. I shall now take some time, and have my thoughts made known.
As already posted in numerous places on the forums, Devastate is supposed to be the most deadly spell within the realms of Nightmist...Agreed?
Being one for the few people who have actually used Devastate, I can honestly say that I didnt think it was overpowered. Granted whilst you were able to time stamina it was a lethal wepon. However, this has been removed from the game.
At present, since the new modification of Devastate mages are left in some what of a very deep trough of abilities. Previously devastating a bunny would cause approx 140 damage, now it causes a mere 105 or so. Beam does about 96. So effectively the most powerful spell ever does only 10 more damage than a poxy ray of light? Thats obscene!!
It costs 25 mp, also thus making it the most inefficient spell currently on the game.
When I heard and saw for myself the modification of the "Master of Magic" most destructive spell, I thought just how wrong things could go.
High level mages are the most powerful beings, yet they hardly seem to be more than illusionists making people invisible. Such dark times this is for the magical generations.
There is no way on earth such a powerful spell can be so feeble. Also with all the resists, fizzling, partial resist etc. mages are fast falling into the depths of oblivion.
Mages have NO spell that can modify their spell damage, unlike every other class being affected by Enhance and Righteous Fury etc. Even the amulets that give +1 intelligence dont affect damage by anything significant.
On another point, why the hell should a Cleric be able to heal for 100+ everytime, they even have more advanced spells. They can hurt entire squares, hell they can even make their stamina return to maximum. For example, a level 30 mage only gets 4 stamina back with Haste. However, a level 30 cleric gets 5 stamina back with both Blessed Haste (castable on whole parties), or the much cheaper Holy Might.
Why cant you see that your making Mages so pathetic, that no one is going to want to use one. Even their mana gets ripped from them. Clerics heal for 100+, with the long time widely available Divine Restoration for about 8mp. Devastate about 50-80 varying on wisdom, with added resists, fizzles and partial resists, not yet even widely available and costs a stupid 25mp. It's ludicris!!
Even Druids out spell mages, their armor spells are just awesome. Also stormwrath costs very low mp and does 10 less damage than beam.
Mages even get rounded by almost every class due to their very low hp, unless your able to get or willing to buy Aura of Protection, plus 2mil+ gold of extra equipment.
Most players remember old_fart/Milagros really dominating. This is due to the simple facts:
1. John is a good player, and can work mages well.
2. Whem stamina timing was in John was good at this, thus managing to inflict about 7-9 devastates in quick succession.
3. In large events such as Triplex, he uses Nightshade Elixirs, Vampire Potions and Powerstones. So anyone could do very well with full mp/hp heals, and stamina regains, and the vamparic ability the vampire potion gives for the short period of time. He also used these when dueling the 3 level 30 rangers posted about on forums somewhere.
Anyone using Vampire Potions or Nightshade Elixirs would do some serious damage to people dueling them.
Also the only people that seem to be posting that Devastate be tweaked, or the people with no hope at all of getting it, no hope at all of buying it, and are incapable of training a mage to level 30 because they are very difficult to train.
Players need to stop thinking about personal power, and only posting ideas on their mains alts. Then when a good idea, thats powerful comes up for a class other than their mains, they say how overpowered it would become.
I have posted this numerous times, but no one seems to listen, and it's ruining the game with people only listening to themselves. |
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on 10/05/03 at 11:28:44, Eternyte wrote:What your saying is correct. However 2-3 mana reduction would not surfice. This I think would be better:
Shock - 2mp
Sphere - 2mp
Vortex Gate - 50mp
Flame - 5mp
Blast - 7mp
Beam - 10mp
Protect - 10mp
Enhanced Sphere - 10mp
Mana Shroud - 15mp
Aura of Protection - 20mp
Haste - 20mp
Invisibility - 10mp
Devestate - 15mp
More spells are also needed to help mages. If you buy an intell increasing item it only raises your max damage by 2, I think. However, the randomness of the damage quickly reduces this so it seems pointless. Perhaps 1 intell could increase damage by 5? Also mages have no other way of increasing their damange like RF from Clerics with other classes. Also I dont think a Cleric should hold the key to increasing a Mages damage, since they are outcasts and loners of the world. Who many dislike intensely.
Within the intell, mages seem to fizzle and get resisted even at level 30 by obscene amounts. Which I have suffered first hand, these should be lowered quite a bit. I rarely seem to get a full round of beams in without a fizzle/resist/partial resist. A master magic user would not have this trouble I dont think. |
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Feel free to comment as you wish. If needs be I will post various thoughts and idea on the other classes. As to avoid accusations of being biased towards mages. I post this now, I as regard mages to be the most severly underdeveloped class in Nightmist.
Bring on Pandilex' little modifications.
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Metatron
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #2 on: 10/27/03 at 14:21:48 » |
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/clap 
I totally agree with what you said , i think i've just got some motivation to train my little mage
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Jurian
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #3 on: 10/27/03 at 20:20:42 » |
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read the thread where pandi said there are gonna be changes that will make mages more interesting next update?
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Metatron
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #4 on: 10/27/03 at 20:41:33 » |
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Yes,but he only said some and like you even said they need more than some.
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CPG
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dude hit guy wif lol
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #5 on: 10/27/03 at 20:46:26 » |
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The only problem I see is that if mages were made a powerful solo class, then people would take advantage of this. Level a bunch of Mages and you're an unstoppable force. Someone running around with three Mages and a Cleric...And I know people will do that. They can't be made into a powerful solo class or they will just turn into Rangers or Thieves or Berserkers. Some grotesque, one click pk machine. Not that you don't have good ideas, it's just that Nightmist in it's current state doesn't need another destroyer class. Plus with these changes they will be a lot easier to level. Blah blah you get my point.
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Bean
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #6 on: 10/28/03 at 01:40:15 » |
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thats the whole point... three mages working un unision SHOULD be a very powerful force....
specially with clerical support...
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Eternyte
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #7 on: 10/28/03 at 07:08:11 » |
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Personally I have been in favour of an alt restriction for a long time. I would love to be able to use just 1 alt. Previously, when there was stamina timing it was possible. However, now there is no real fun in playing anymore. Everyone seems to load themselves up with hundreds of alts. Then sit at Arilin Gates or South Gate House. Then do hit and runs south.
There will always be people abusing the system no matter what. Until such time as they can only log 1 character on.
You could argue that you cant change equipment, but then maybe there could be a designated area of swapping items that two alts could be logged on.
Then if you try to move both off the area, they get booted, and you get a message "You can't use two characters in this area".
When people realise that using 5 theives, and a druid or mage. Or 5 berserkers and rangers, with a cleric. When people realise that this isn't actually fun, and is ruining the game. Then possibly Nightmist will hold some remote pleasure for myself, and I'm sure many others.
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Cosworth
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #8 on: 10/28/03 at 08:18:53 » |
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Eternyte you know my argument on the subject as you seen my pervious post on them
i totally agree with you on what you have said because i have slowly stopped using my mage
i worked out for me training my arch mage for every 5 mil exp i gain on it using it solely on its own cost easy in the excess of around 70k+ without using any other crits with it
even using a cleric with it i still use about 50k in mana between the 2 classes
when just with a cleric and mage
due to high mp costs for beam and for high resistance and fissle rate with them
i hope these changes that are planned by pandilex are going to be what mages are needing because its a slow and unbecomming death this class are seeing atm
DONT LET US LOSE A CLASS TO THEM BEING UNPLAYED!
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Snowy
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #9 on: 10/30/03 at 08:44:03 » |
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Yay! I never thought there was anyone else ( then me ) who thought about 1-alt-at-time, but it's really a great idea! Myself i sold all my crit and now I'm playing solo and I have to say it's a great experience, altough it's very hard when your friends are offline and you have to train alone. Anyways that'll be good for 3 reasons:
* Less lag!
* Makes the game much more roleplayable, because you can't roleplay being 20 characters at the same time, unless you are a schizo. ( no offence)
* Makes it more realistic, because right now you can rule around without any allies or friends, but that' ll be impossible to do normally, would it?
Althought i know it won't happen on nm.. too many people would dislike it because of how powerful they are using their alts.
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Metatron
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re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #10 on: 10/30/03 at 15:51:51 » |
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No, I dissagree with just one crit at a time, although i do sometimes myself, but i think there should be a maximum of say about 3 or 4.
edit:typos
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| « Last Edit: 10/30/03 at 17:03:37 by Metatron » |
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Snowy
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #11 on: 10/30/03 at 16:26:59 » |
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I say 1, but I know it won't happen so yes, 3 sounds good 
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Bean
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #12 on: 10/30/03 at 17:47:27 » |
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I say two... you'll NEVER need more than 2... ever...
If you feel the need to use more than two chars at a time you obviously cant handle your crits well...
And the funny thing is, this would really make any classes weaker either... If it was two, people would still use their clerics for healing.... So clerics wouldnt become 'obsolete' *yeah I know that sounds stupid, But i've seen it used as a reason against the 1-2 alt rule*
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Snowy
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Re: Mages Recap!!
« Reply #13 on: 10/30/03 at 18:44:04 » |
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yeah as little as possible amount of alts that ppl would agree to would be best
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