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Pandilex
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Thief Class Discussion
« on: 11/25/03 at 14:23:22 »
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To further improve the balance of classes in Nightmist, I'd like everyone who visits this forum to post, sensibly, what changes they believe should be made to thiefs. How are they overpowered? How are they underpowered?
 
I'd like information in great detail, and I'd also like to know how you think they weigh up against the other classes. Which other classes are more powerful? Why?
 
I need to know how I should change the class to improve it further. To make it easier, I'm asking everyone who has played or played againsit a thief to post their opinions.
 


 
To structure this thread better, I would like people to use bullet points to state each piece of information clearly.
 
If you agree or disagree with another person, simply state that you disagree with [this statement] because ____
 
If you don't stick to this I will delete your posts, regardless of their contents, because I need to be able to read the information easily, and it makes it much easier when I can see clearly which suggestions are favoured by the majority.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 11/25/03 at 16:53:21 »
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1) Thives should be able to 'assassinate' any opponent. I think only from covert though, as it is a hidden ability. Not from covert should be able to, but only if the damage done if enough.
 
2) Thieves should hit a lot more than they do, however, they shouldn't hit 100% of the time for massive damage, but perhaps 80% of the time, with a lot at reduced damage.
 
3) Thieves should dodge a lot of the blows, they usually get clicked by fighters/ranger/berserkers because of their lower armor.
 
4) Gives thieves a useful poison dagger, one that hits for less than normal daggers say 25 base damage, but poisons for 50. There isn't enough use of the spell cleanse.
 
*Please note I have considered this class and information within from an unaided point of view*
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 11/25/03 at 20:09:14 »
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I think they should be able to move around covert better without losing so much stamina. Also i think they should have higher armor cause i mean its just to low right now  Cool
 
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 11/25/03 at 22:39:06 »
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on 11/25/03 at 16:53:21, Eternyte wrote:
1) Thives should be able to 'assassinate' any opponent. I think only from covert though, as it is a hidden ability. Not from covert should be able to, but only if the damage done if enough.

 
I'm not sure if I agree with this. I think that you should actually have to spend a lot more time planning this 'assassination'. Either rename it to back stab or something, or actually make it so the thief actually has to spend some time planning his ambush etc. (basically I don't want people to run around and then 'assassinate' someone instantly. Personally I think an assassination would require more time. A back stab however, wouldn't)
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 11/25/03 at 23:14:17 »
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-Assassination should be what it is. Maybe only allow it to be used when your opponent is mort and then have an ability such as Back Stab that takes assassinate's place.
-Maybe some poison or trap abilities.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 11/26/03 at 01:11:03 »
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Increase Thieves' melee abilities.
 
Poison daggers and/or abilities.
 
Introduce another ability like back stab. Make assassinate a finishing blow. Back stab should not be able to kill somebody in one click. Assassinate would kill if the target has a low amount of HP.
 
Steal better from players.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 11/26/03 at 01:39:26 »
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If you think about this realisticly then someone is more then capable of sneeking up behind someone and slitting their throat, killing them instantly. But then again it's the unrealistic things that make this game so much fun. Cheesy
 
To be honest.. I'm not sure what I think of this whole thing. I do agree with more armor and a poision ability. I'm not so unsure that assassinate shouldn't just be kept the way it is..
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 11/26/03 at 19:43:44 »
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call me crazy but when thieves are changed it sucks, so changes should be at a severe minimum.
 
1. make stealing the equivalent to what it was around spring 2001.
 
2. remove armor from the equation when assassinate is done while covert.
 
3. leave everything else alone! for the love of god!
 
seriously, thieves don't need alot of improvement and whenever they're tinkered with, things go too far in any direction and take forever to be resolved (i.e. stealing). so please, don't go fixing things that aren't broken.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 11/26/03 at 19:54:06 »
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on 11/26/03 at 19:43:44, dognapot wrote:

2. remove armor from the equation when assassinate is done while covert.

 
Armor isn't taken into the equation anyway.. Or do you mean, take it out when covert. But have it in when assassinating from the open?
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 11/26/03 at 20:11:09 »
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i believe armor is in the equation regardless of visibility. the point was to make a covert assassinate more deadly. if your victim isn't aware of your presence it should be easier to make a precise attack. however, overt assassination shouldn't be weakened an aversed respect.
 
most importantly is number 3.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 11/26/03 at 20:23:25 »
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ok, but a poison dagger would be nice  Grin
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 11/26/03 at 22:28:28 »
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on 11/26/03 at 19:43:44, dognapot wrote:
1. make stealing the equivalent to what it was around spring 2001.

Dear god, how could I have forgotten. Very good point.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 11/27/03 at 04:08:15 »
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I wish there was a way to increase stealing without it affecting powertraining. If stealing is raised, then powertraining will be a million times easier.  
 
Ooh! I know!
 
Cap the XP at 1000 gold, instead of 2000. That way stealing % could be raised without making powertraining easier. Harder in fact. Then Thieves could actually thieve well! Most monsters don't have enough gold to steal more than 1000 at a time from, so it won't affect the XP gained from regular stealing.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #13 on: 11/27/03 at 15:13:42 »
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Quote:
If you think about this realisticly then someone is more then capable of sneeking up behind someone and slitting their throat, killing them instantly. But then again it's the unrealistic things that make this game so much fun.

 
I think he's right. if you make the game to realistic then its going to become a hassle instead of a game.I would say assassinate is on the boarder line of real/unreal which makes it perfect for the game. Games arn't really meant to be real. I say leave assassinate the way it is.
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 11/27/03 at 19:39:40 »
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1)Assassinates from covert should deal far more damage than an out in the open assassinate... for obvious reasons.
 
2)Stealing gold needs to be put back the way it was at before.
 
And thats really all that needs to be done....  Undecided
 
Next class!
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 11/27/03 at 20:39:25 »
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Idk if its a bug, but i think that a coverted thief that runs out of stamina should be able to come back to the open any time. Its not that hard to leave the "shadows". And when i make /covert while coverted and without stamine it gives me this message " You are too exhausted at the moment. ".
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 11/27/03 at 20:42:50 »
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on 11/27/03 at 20:39:25, Snowy wrote:
Idk if its a bug, but i think that a coverted thief that runs out of stamina should be able to come back to the open any time. Its not that hard to leave the "shadows".

 
You don't seem to understand it.. when you have no stamina it means, you have no stamina. Your too tired to move, therefore you can't move out of the shadows.
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well Grin
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 11/27/03 at 20:58:43 »
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yeah.. but i can scream on the square call ppl noobs fart and do whatever...
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 11/27/03 at 21:00:02 »
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on 11/27/03 at 20:42:50, Mephistroth wrote:

 
You don't seem to understand it..

 
good point by the way, cuz i dont
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Re: Thief Class Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 11/28/03 at 00:52:21 »
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on 11/27/03 at 04:08:15, CPG wrote:
I wish there was a way to increase stealing without it affecting powertraining. If stealing is raised, then powertraining will be a million times easier.  
 
Ooh! I know!
 
Cap the XP at 1000 gold, instead of 2000. That way stealing % could be raised without making powertraining easier. Harder in fact. Then Thieves could actually thieve well! Most monsters don't have enough gold to steal more than 1000 at a time from, so it won't affect the XP gained from regular stealing.

 
you're wrong. if thieves steal a higher percentage (as they should), they'll train slower.
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