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   Author  Topic: Ranger Class Discussion  (Read 3470 times)
Pandilex
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Ranger Class Discussion
« on: 11/25/03 at 14:22:45 »
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To further improve the balance of classes in Nightmist, I'd like everyone who visits this forum to post, sensibly, what changes they believe should be made to ranger. How are they overpowered? How are they underpowered?
 
I'd like information in great detail, and I'd also like to know how you think they weigh up against the other classes. Which other classes are more powerful? Why?
 
I need to know how I should change the class to improve it further. To make it easier, I'm asking everyone who has played or played againsit a ranger to post their opinions.
 


 
To structure this thread better, I would like people to use bullet points to state each piece of information clearly.
 
If you agree or disagree with another person, simply state that you disagree with [this statement] because ____
 
If you don't stick to this I will delete your posts, regardless of their contents, because I need to be able to read the information easily, and it makes it much easier when I can see clearly which suggestions are favoured by the majority.
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Eternyte
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 11/25/03 at 16:50:13 »
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1) Rangers need to hit slightly less often, but for more damage. Rangers are distance attacker, some arrows are going to miss, however, the ones that hit are going to be well places and hurt.
 
2) Hypotise needs to be a touch more effective, however, it should not be able to be casted upon someone who is already under its effects.
 
3) Rangers should lose their shields, a ranger cannot use his bow and arrow effectively while carrying a shield.
 
4) If possible replace shield with a quiver, and introduce arrows, like mana crystals for mages. A ranger would need to carry arrows, maybe they could carry a small knife in a bracelet spot incase they do run out, or have an attack without arrows. i.e. swining their bows. Also have varying sizes of quivers to allow more space for arrows.
 
5) Flaming arrow needs to be more prominent. If an arrow that is on fire hits you, it's gonna hurt you more than one that isn't. Perhaps 50dmg extra if it is successful.
 
*Please note I have considered this class and information within from an unaided point of view*
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 11/25/03 at 20:06:54 »
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Flaming arrow - Needs to do more then its dmg and poison for..3(is it?) Like Eternyte said if your getting hit wit an arrow thats flaming its gonna hurt a lil bit so tap on an extra 10-25dmg and make flaming aarow hit a lil less often so its not to powerful
 
Hypnotise - Should make others miss a lil bit more i think, and i think you should be able to hypno people that are already hypno'd just because..well if someones actually hypno'd you could do it again i would think
 
..PeAcE
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 11/25/03 at 22:37:06 »
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I have two main problems with rangers:
 
1. Being able to use shields AND fire a bow at the same time. In reality this isn't possible. Remove the shield and possibly add in a quiver (as Eternyte suggested)
 
2. Flaming arrow. This should do more damage than it does already. Rapid fire does more damage and all in one click. A level 23 ability better than a level 28 one? This shouldn't be happening. Either raise one or lower the other.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 11/25/03 at 22:57:07 »
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- Remove shield and add an arrow system like everyone else has mentioned. Wink They should be a scout class, not a fighter class.
- I also find that they should achieve some actual abilities that relate to arrow shooting to replace the odd rapid fire.  I have suggested some ideas in the past where arrows could attack someone like 5 squares away.  More details in that post though.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 11/26/03 at 01:04:28 »
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Rapid Fire should hit for less, and less often. Also agreeing about the shield/bow/arrow issue.
 
Make them skilled Archers, not bow wielding death machines.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 11/29/03 at 06:04:43 »
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I agree to the Quiver/Shield idea though might I suggest that if Rangers were to not wield shields that they be a bit like berserkers, who can't where armor, that the Ranger gain a bit more hp to make up for the shield. They should increase in hp at level by around 11-13 hp, which could be their average gain, but if that's too much to make up for the shield then I'm sorry. On the Rapid Fire idea, I've heard mentioned ideas about something called Aimed Shot, which could replace Rapid Fire as the title of it. Think of it as kind of a Sniper shot to the direct weak point. You pulled back full on your bow and shot straight at their weak point causing Huh(unsure) amount of damage it can be something like that when it's fired. The Aimed Shot may not be as powerful as Rapid Fire(though I forgot how much it does), but just about under the amount of damage it does. Considering its damage done, it won't miss as much, counting the idea of having no shield. Its likeliablity to miss would be around 15%-30%.  
This is all I have to post as of now but I may post other players ideas or some of my ideas again soon enough.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 11/29/03 at 06:09:29 »
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just to let ya know rangers shouldnt be messed with anymore than they already have. Rangers use to be the best class in game until everyone who didnt have one whined till they were made to nuts... now i dont even use rangers meanwhile having some of the best in the game. They arent as good as they used to be, not even close. I think rangers have been thrashed and bashed enough... they dont need to be messed up anymore than they already have been.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 11/29/03 at 07:05:33 »
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lol, i think people have to fear my 3 lvl 21 zerkers more than my 3 lvl 28 rangers...maybe thats just cause i run around with full spells on all the time though..i guess the zerkers would miss more if they werent RFed..
 
-i agree that rangers should have smaller shields, i.e. steel bracers
 
-i dont really like the idea of arrows that you have to buy like mana and such...just because it'd make it harder  Roll Eyes
 
-rapid fire w/o spells misses just fine, i think the ammount it hits with RF on should be reduced a tad, especially on other crits
 
-hypno does seem to pretty much screw people over in deuls if you use it in combo with divine light...no one touches you lol
 
-and with the arrow being on fire it sure as hell would seem that it ought to deal a good ammount of damage...more than a non-flamming arrow at the least.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 11/30/03 at 07:43:55 »
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u dont like arrows? then u can buy a fancy short sword, or a cobalt Wink
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 11/30/03 at 12:29:15 »
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on 11/30/03 at 07:43:55, Snowy wrote:
then u can buy a fancy short sword

 
FSS is a drop Wink
 
Oh, and id like to see arrows. Would make fights more interesting.. Same as id like to see dura on fighter/berserker weapons.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 11/30/03 at 21:15:24 »
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would be nice, if u could repair them of course
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 12/01/03 at 10:47:38 »
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lol cobalt blows on rangers
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #13 on: 12/02/03 at 21:36:30 »
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NO! dont make rangers any worse  Lips Sealed
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alicia
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 12/05/03 at 02:07:54 »
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if rangers just lose the shield they will be worthless... under 60 hp w/o mods and 260-280hp average.... and thats perfect archmasters (Low level rangers are utterly useless) ... whoever sed they should be like 'scouts' remember... to attack you need to be able to see your opponent, one NM square = bow/beam range and nm does not distinguish between hitting the guy stood next to you fighting with a sword or him/her stood 150 yards away launching arrows or 'summoning a beam of light' at you...  
 
heres a summary of the 'hardness' of the classes
 
zerkers = very high hp, no AC
fighters = high hp, high ac
pallys = good hp, good ac, dex mods
thieves = good hp, ok ac, usually covert so they cant be attacked
rangers = ok hp, good ac, reduce-hit-chance spells
druids = ok hp, ok ac, good AC mods
clerics = poor hp, ok ac, good AC mods, dex mods, reduce-hit-chance spells
mage = very low hp, very low ac, good AC mods, usually invis so they cant be attacked
 
also, i made a list of 'actual hp' values, meaning the amount of damage that you need to do to a perfect arch with best normally-availiable eq and its own spells, note these arent perfect, im guessing at the classes ive never had a high lev of
 
Actual hp (Amount of damage you actually need to do to the class to kill it, taking armour, EQ, and self-spells into account)
 
Best eq courtesy of jurians awesome eq proggy Smiley
 
Dwarf Zerker (500hp, 0AC) - 500hp
Dwarf Fighter (99ac, 350hp) - 693hp
Ling Fighter (106hp, 310hp) - 660hp
Ling Pally - (90ac, 295hp) - 536hp
Ling Ranger - (94ac, 275hp) - 519hp
Elf Druid - (82ac, 260hp, 63ac spells) - 945hp (441 unspelled)
Elf Cleric - (80ac, 255hp, 61ac spells) - 895hp (425 unspelled)
Dwarf Cleric - (80ac, 300hp, 58ac spells) - 968hp (488 unspelled)
Elf Mage - (54ac, 225hp, 96ac spells) - 900hp (308 unspelled)
Ling ranger without shield - (74ac, 275hp) - 437hp
 
So from this we can tell...
 
NOTE... Dex is not taken into account, this affects rangers, elf clerics, all lings and pallys most,
 
1) Zerkers arnt that tough, any class with full mods is harder to kill (we'll deal with assassinate/smite later)
2)Unspelled clerics/mages/druids are weak, spelled they are better then any other class
3)Shieldless rangers would be crap
 
For whoever was ranting about the cleric with 4 RotW's and a SA, remember each RotW reduces armour by 4 (3 for loss of the cr, 1 for -1 on rotw)
This makes - 300hp, 64ac, 71 spelled ac, giving 923hp. Which is not as good as the cleric with CR's
 
edit - assassinate/smite values are wrong and are removed, not sure how much armour affects these attacks
 
These values are to do with pvp so ive excluded pacifists
« Last Edit: 12/05/03 at 22:43:19 by alicia » IP Logged
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 12/05/03 at 05:31:02 »
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Uh... WHAT?
 
Those values make little to no sense.... what are the equations behind them.... why does AC affect hp?  
 
You didnt explain ANYTHING there...
 
Explain that So I may understand what it was exactly you were trying to say
 
 Huh
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 12/05/03 at 22:41:37 »
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lol..  
it means - a fighter with 99AC and 350HP and a zerker with 0AC and 693hp can take about the same amount of damage before dying
 
AC dosnt increase hp but it reduces damage... the final HP value is the equivilant hp if you had no armour (if you were a zerker)
 
ie - a ranger hits a zerker for five 110's (550 damage)
 
This would kill the zerker
 
However the same round against the above fighter would be reduced by AC and woudnt be a kill.. the fighter would have about 1-(550-693)*350 = 72hp left
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 12/05/03 at 22:54:41 »
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And what evidence is there that you didn't just make up those stats to fit your post?
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well Grin
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 12/05/03 at 22:56:44 »
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Test it yourself then.
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Re: Ranger Class Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 12/06/03 at 07:01:35 »
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/clap
 
/clap
 
one more... /clap
 
wow... takes a drunken fool to understand that :  wow, took 5 min to type this post correctly
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