Nightmist Online Forum
        (http://www.nightmist-online.co.uk/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl)
      

        Individual Class Discussion >> Fighter Class Discussion >> Armor Ideas
        
(Message started by: CPG on 09/06/03 at 20:10:14)
Title: Armor Ideas
Post by CPG on 09/06/03 at 20:10:14
Library info for Steel Plated Gauntlets:
Armor base: 10, Can be worn by: fighters, Description: Made from steel mined in the deepest parts of the earth, these gauntlets are the best out there. They offer extreme protection and help stabilize your blows. They are somewhat encumbering, unfortunately., Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 1, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: -1, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.

Library info for Tower Shield:
Armor base: 30, Can be worn by: fighters, Description: The Tower shield is four feet tall, and two wide. While providing superior protection, it doesn't leave much room to see things as clearly. Also, it can be used to hit opponents in tight situations, Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 1, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: -1, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.

Library info for Steel Plated Helm:
Armor base: 15, Can be worn by: fighters, Description: Originally a plain steel helmet, this piece of equipment has been modified. It is now covered in thick steel plating which protects its wear from harm to the head. There is also padding inside, which keeps the mind clear, even after getting struck., Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 1, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.

Library info for Gothic Plate Armor:
Armor base: 55, Can be worn by: fighters, Description: An extremely large, custom made piece of armor. Forged from black steel and covered in one inch thick metal plates, it will fill all who see it with awe. Gleaming when the sun hits it, a certain aura is produced around the wearer., Level needed to equip it: 30, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: -1, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 2.

These are my ideas for new armor that should be available to Fighters. The extra armor would make up for their lack of ability and the stat modifications will mean being able to choose different pieces of armor for different stats and create a much larger selection of armor combinations.

Example Fighter, a 6-stat Dwarf just to make it less complicated. With this armor, the stats would be 23 19 16 20 18 19 with 110 armor (minus rings amulets etc.). Or they could have spiked armor and sgs (to replace the gauntlets). That would leave them with 21 18 19 21 18 17 and only 82 armor. Or you could mix and match. It would be like shopping, heh. But yeah, just a demonstration of what you can do.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Despair on 09/06/03 at 20:49:25
nice idea gives you a choice with pretty equal advantages/disadvantages well thought out
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Jurian on 09/06/03 at 20:56:51
didn't read it all but post em in the development part of the forum :D
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by CPG on 09/06/03 at 20:57:39
Isn't that for boss drops?
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Sausage on 09/06/03 at 21:04:41
Yes, but why not start your own thread?
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by DannysGirl on 09/07/03 at 08:43:14
the stat changes, didnt really make sense
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Jurian on 09/07/03 at 10:02:01

on 09/06/03 at 20:57:39, CPG wrote:
Isn't that for boss drops?


well this has to do with development so make a new thread. ppl that read that part of the forum alot can give you better comments on your ideas then the ppl that read this part of the forum (although most are the same)
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Mephistroth on 09/07/03 at 10:18:58

on 09/07/03 at 08:43:14, DannysGirl wrote:
the stat changes, didnt really make sense


They do actually.

Library info for Steel Plated Gauntlets:
Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 1, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: -1, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.

You could gain str because you might be able to bash people with them, which would let you do more damage.. but because you can't do that he just put str up by one. Dexterity wouldn't really get lowered by steel plated gauntlets, but you wouldn't be able to move your hands as fast, so you wouldn't be able to parry attacks as well.. which leaves you more of a chance to get hit, and you won't be able to hit as easily. So dext goes down by 1.

Library info for Tower Shield:
Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 1, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: -1, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0

Again, the str is added because it allows you to do extra damage (bashing people) but because there isn't a way to add extra damage from an item, he had to put str up by 1. I can easily see how it takes off dext though.. holding a big ass shields gonna slow you down a bit.

Library info for Steel Plated Helm:
Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 1, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.

This gives you int because if you get hit in the head, you won't take anywhere near as much damage, but before it would leave you stunned and confused.

Library info for Gothic Plate Armor:
Level needed to equip it: 30, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: -1, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 2.

Lose dexterity because its a big ass body armour, and you can't move as fast. You gain two char because it looks good lol

Edit: added in the bold.. might make it easier to read or something *shrugs*
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Eternyte on 09/07/03 at 10:57:54
I agree with DannysGirl here. Some of the stat modifications dont make sense.

Steel plated gauntlets.
10ac, +1 str, -1 dex. These wouldnt seem to bad except that you could just wear sg's and a granite amulet. Although you get +4ac on sg's anyway.
I think if there was a wisdom mod too it would be ok. i.e. 10ac, +1str, -1dex, -1wis.

Tower Shield.
30ac, +1 str, -1 cons. Not only does is have 10ac more than the next best shield, but it also gives +1 str. -1 cons is useless at it would not affect a fighter in any way. For such a large, and strong shield. 30ac, +1str, -1 dex and -1 wis would be better.

Steel Plated Helm.
15ac, +1 int. This has 7ac more than the next best shield. Although why +1int, intell has no effect whatsoever on a fighter so it seems pointless. 15ac, -1 wis, +1 chr seems a better option.

Gothic Plate Armor.
55ac, -1 dex, +2 chr. This one seems fine.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I have pointed out on another post somewhere. I have already spoken to JLH about some of the other items already in the game. He said that more ac was not needed as the game is already too easy.

I would like to see new variants of the armors available in the shops just to add to a little more variety. Good ideas though CPG.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Mephistroth on 09/07/03 at 11:11:04
Why the hell would you lose wisdom? That just doesn't make sense.. also, the whole point in these is that people might think about using them, but if you lose dext AND wis then a lot of people wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Eternyte on 09/07/03 at 11:23:26

on 09/07/03 at 11:11:04, Mephistroth wrote:
Why the hell would you lose wisdom? That just doesn't make sense.. also, the whole point in these is that people might think about using them, but if you lose dext AND wis then a lot of people wouldn't bother.

Doesnt make sense? but losing 1 cons and gaining 1 int for fighters does? I think not.

A lot of people wouldnt use those new armor, but even more would.

I thought about what stats could be changed in order to not make the items too powerful.
If the stat ideas that CPG put forward, no one would use any of the armor that is already in the game.

I mean if a fighter gets a shield with 10ac more, 1 str more, and 1 less cons. EVERYONE would equip it.

Same with a helm that gives 7ac more and +1 int. It's just a spked helm with more ac. There is no point to it.

You cant go giving a class such good items, without having an adverse effect. Even with the stat mods I suggested I'd still wear them. Why? because no one really uses mages anymore, so you have nothing to worry about.

Like I said in my previous post I would like to see new armor in the game. Although armor with the initial stat mods would be far too good.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Mephistroth on 09/07/03 at 11:36:30
So? Just because one thing doesn't make sense it doesn't mean you can go and throw in some stupid idea about wisdom. there is NO WAY that it would make you lose wisdom, or con for that matter.. but for me it makes a small amount of sense for the int.

It doesn't matter if these are better than spiked. They have a higher level limit, and would cost a lot more. I don't see you complaning because Spiked Set is better than Ironweed... after all, NOBODY uses ironweed when they reach level 25.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Eternyte on 09/07/03 at 12:11:40
Fair point, but we still dont need armor going up to 130+, even at level 30. Thats just going into insane territory, as soon as armor starts going up that high there needs to be large adverse effects. Otherwise the game would just rocket out of control.

Kinda of like it has with the ease of getting exp/gold/level 30's. If items like these were brought in, there would need to be a limit on resorces to make them.
I know this is going off topic slightly, but as Ted (Dognapot) said there is a never ending cycle. Soon enough everyone will be level 30, and they would have armor like stated above.

I agree with what your saying to a certain extent, but I do feel that variety is needed, not much better equipment.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Mephistroth on 09/07/03 at 12:34:17
True, but fighters do need something.. and this might be it. They'd be able to beat all classes in melee (which is what they should do) but they'd still be weak to magic (which they should be). Maybe if this went in, fighters could take a bonus 5/10 damage from mages spells? This isn't anything do with fighters, but I just don't think Fighters magic defence would be that great.

Every class needs a weakness, but it also needs a strength.. and fighters seem to be lacking it.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Eternyte on 09/07/03 at 14:23:54
I agree fighters should be the best melee attacker which they are. Unfortunately Nightmist cannot compensate for range. For instance only a Ranger or Thief (Assassinate from covert) should be able to touch a mage, because they wouldnt be stupid enough to get into close quarters with a fighter or a zerk.

Fighters do need something, but I dont think higher ac is the way to go, because then they will be clicking away. With no real skill in it.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by CPG on 09/07/03 at 18:38:01
I put minus con on the shield because it is large and you can't see as much with it on. This would leave you more susceptible to thieves. For the helm with +1 int, Mephistroth got it exactly. Sure they don't need int, but it's for roleplaying purposes, some people like to have smart crits. For the Gauntlets. Sure you could use sgs and a granite ammy, but you would be missing out on 4 ac and you would also probably have to buy a granite ammy because there aren't too many around. Also, why would unenchanted metal give you +wis? I don't see it. Although armor should have something to do with magical attacks, it's not going to happen (Obviously if you are wearing a huge suit of armor, a Mage's beam will have a tough time penetrating it or doing whatever it does to damage the opponent.). I thought about putting -1 dex on the shield, but if you equip the set, then you will be getting -3 dex, which is terrible in this world where dex reigns supreme. In my eyes, I think the advantages and disadvantages even out.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Criminal on 09/11/03 at 06:37:43
I FInd this Thread Completely Pointless in all ways possibly and that Fighters Just need Better Hp gain and Stam and some what in better weapons discluding the BoT cuz its pointless to have cuz it would take for ever to just get one from a Monster drop and Not Many players have it, Look at the Rose Blade its a remake of the hally but made for lvl 25+ which means when your able to equiped Spiked set you should have a rose blade,But this is off topic i am speaking of and i am sorry for going off topic ina  way, But the Armor is pointless, Fighters just need Better Weapons and Hp, Look at Quark he has Highest Hp ingame for dwarf Fighters, and he can easily become more god like with that kinda Armor think about the kinda fighters your suggesting use this armor.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by CPG on 09/11/03 at 15:31:38
I never said these pieces of armor would be a boss drop. Also, I don't think you are taking into consideration the negative effects of the armor. Also, why do you want Fighters to become like berserkers? You want more HP and more damage? Maybe a couple more damage would be nice, like 3-5, but that's it. As far as the rose blade, it's a better weapon for a pally, because a Fighter can use a hally and save himself 100k. Yes, Quark would be a great Fighter with this armor. But he also has outrageous HP and a lot of nice equipment. He's not your run of the mill character. Also, if you haven't noticed, Fighters do not have a spectacular amount of armor. Rangers have a few less than them which isn't right. Fighters need to be a desirable class to have again.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Bean on 09/11/03 at 17:47:12
They dont need armor

They dont need more stamina

They dont need to hit harder

What they need, are skills that can be used tactically in battle...
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Mephistroth on 09/11/03 at 19:48:21

on 09/11/03 at 17:47:12, Bean wrote:
They dont need armor


Wrong.


on 09/11/03 at 17:47:12, Bean wrote:
They dont need more stamina


Correct.


on 09/11/03 at 17:47:12, Bean wrote:
They dont need to hit harder


They could do with hitting a little harder. Unless you have a 2 mill gold weapon they suck.


on 09/11/03 at 17:47:12, Bean wrote:
What they need, are skills that can be used tactically in battle...


I agree with this, but there haven't really been any decent suggestions. Yours is the main one with stances, and from playing deity I can see there being loads of problems with stances.
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Bean on 09/11/03 at 19:59:26
And, therefore, for example? Lol, it cant be worked out if you keep the problems to yourself :D

And if they got any NEW armor at all, which im pretty sure wont happen too soon, seeing as JLH is opposed to having so much armor on characters. It would only make them just as armored as other classes, they are still at the disadvantage of only having one singular attack to rely on.

I really wish there were variants to armor though... Im tired of seeing people all wearing the same stuff... you cant get a custom char around here without spending like 20 mil gold for a whole crapload of questies.

* heads to find an armor thread.


Edit: Oh, the stances are mainly devals idea, I just brought it back to the forefront of thought really... :)
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Ringleader on 12/27/03 at 09:49:40
I like these items, and i like the original stat mods on them.  Not all mods have to truely effect how a crit does in battle, sometimes a stat can be changed by the item because of the item's style/description..not just because the class can take advantage of it..

..or maybe somebody just loves mages and thinks they're poor babies that need to hit harder so would like lower wisdome on crits that are already screwed because the class is only used by newer players usually other than some who do alright in moshes and triplex (quark and old magnus). *whistles*
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Rappy_Ninja on 12/27/03 at 15:42:20
lol even with the - on dex seems over powered


I mean 4x crs aoh/aolp and boots of time

have it a h-ling fighter and just throw those equips on him and he have like 130-140 armor



could you even hit that ??? would be like a mage with 300-330 hps lollll   20 20 20 19 18 22  would be like whole new race  :P
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Mephistroth on 12/27/03 at 16:09:59
Yeah.. now ya put it that way it does seem over powered lol
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by Everlast on 12/27/03 at 22:54:07
No, with the -s on dex you wouldnt have those stats.

6 stat dwarf may look more like
120-140 ac
23 19 17 18 17 16
(with these, aoh, sgs, and crs)

6 stat halfling would be pimp though
126-146 ac
20 20 20 18 17 18
(with these, aoh, sgs, and crs)

^--- does look a little strong, however fighters are pretty useless atm for anything outside of surviving to the end of moshs (that is more because no one goes fighters first than anything to do with hp/skills btw)
Title: Re: Armor Ideas
Post by CPG on 12/28/03 at 02:07:56
Not to mention they would be pretty costly. At least 150k for the body armor and probably 100k for each other thing. Maybe in Silversail to be hard to get to.

I think that it would give Fighter's an edge that they've been missing for a while.


Nightmist Online Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.