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Topic: Fighter Class Discussion (Read 3820 times) |
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Pandilex
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Fighter Class Discussion
« on: 11/25/03 at 14:20:06 » |
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To further improve the balance of classes in Nightmist, I'd like everyone who visits this forum to post, sensibly, what changes they believe should be made to fighters. How are they overpowered? How are they underpowered?
I'd like information in great detail, and I'd also like to know how you think they weigh up against the other classes. Which other classes are more powerful? Why?
I need to know how I should change the class to improve it further. To make it easier, I'm asking everyone who has played or played againsit a fighter to post their opinions.
To structure this thread better, I would like people to use bullet points to state each piece of information clearly.
If you agree or disagree with another person, simply state that you disagree with [this statement] because ____
If you don't stick to this I will delete your posts, regardless of their contents, because I need to be able to read the information easily, and it makes it much easier when I can see clearly which suggestions are favoured by the majority.
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Eternyte
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 11/25/03 at 16:30:58 » |
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1) Fighters need too hit a little more often, and get hit slightly less often. Their armor should be far superior naturally to any other class. Perhaps a class bonus of 10ac can be added to fighter.
2) More variety in armors, perhaps with + and - stats, so there would be a variation on the strategy in balancing your fighter. Perhaps the oportunity to drop the shield and equip a secondary wepon. The damage received must just about balance out the damage done. The same wepon cannot be double equiped i.e. no fighter with 2 halberds.
3) Make fighters the only class with 6 stamina, it's their main trait.
4) Fighters need more abilities (I posted some when the forums were initiated). These included a 2 stamina attack. The damage would be doubled from a normal attack, but due to the fact is 1 double hit misses is like losing 2 stamina, the damage would be large.
*Please note I have considered this class and information within from an unaided point of view*
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Epic
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 11/25/03 at 19:54:26 » |
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As of right now Fighters are not to good...
I think since they are a FIGHTING class maybe they should get 7 stam  , their attacks get blocked/absorbed waaay to much and they are kinda useless really. Duel wield is a wonderful idea (cobalt and hally ) i mean since fighting is wut they do they should be better at it therfor having more attacks, hit more and dodge more often..i say give the class an armor boost also
..PeAcE
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Mephistroth
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 11/25/03 at 22:32:24 » |
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on 11/25/03 at 16:30:58, Eternyte wrote:| The same wepon cannot be double equiped i.e. no fighter with 2 halberds. |
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I don't see why they shouldn't be able to dual wield two of the same weapons (unless of course there two handed weapons, like the halberd is) I do agree with letting them use two weapons at once, I think it would make one of the worst classes semi decent.
As Eternyte said, they need to actually hit more often. For a fighting class, their attacks get absorbed/dodged way too often.
I also think it would be quite cool if they could parry, and then riposte. Fighters should be experts at melee combat, so I expect they'd actually be able to parry and counter attack.
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Stotic
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 11/25/03 at 23:06:14 » |
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- I do not agree with double-wielding weapons. The value of armor doesn't even come close to matching the value of attacking with two weapons (more damage). There'd have to be a significant downsize on defense for me to consider it. Maybe a significant lowering of dex?
-Possibly a chant/yell that makes monsters that have lower dex (or something) run away. (disappear, unless its possible to add the ability to make them move a square away)
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Deval
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 11/25/03 at 23:36:36 » |
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- As just about everyone has mentioned, fighters need an increase in their damage/absorbtion area. A fighter, considering they are the expert combatant we naturally imagine them to be, would have a considerable knowledge of vital areas to strike an opponent, and the weak/exposed areas of an opponents armour. I find it hard to fathom that someone could call themself an archmaster fighter, yet have no idea how to efficiently penetrate an opponents defenses.
- Another idea would be to give fighters a 'penetrating' effect on standard attacks, as stated before, they would have a good understanding of weaknesses in armour and vital locations to strike an opponent. All this would constitute is a percentage or numeric value that is removed from an opponents AR.
For example, lets say 'Defender' has an AR of 100, and 'Fighter' has a penetration value of 10%, leaving the 'Defender' with 90% of their normal AR to defend the attack.
Another example, using a set standard number, which optionally, could increase as the players level increases -
'Defender' has an AR of 100, and 'Fighter' has a standard penetration rating of 15, thus leaving the 'Defender' with an AR of 85 with wich to protect themselves.
- Stances: An idea that has been thrown around a few times now in specific discussions. The idea is fairly simple and straightforward. The fighter has the option to choose which stance he would like to use, and may only modify his stance whilst he has 4, 5, or 6 stamina (in the lower levels, it would be at the standard refresh of the fighter). The primary stances for this ability may be something similar to 'Aggressive', 'Neutral', and 'Defensive', with each giving benefits an negatives to the Fighter as follows:
Aggressive: Fighter hits reasonably harder, misses a little more, is absorbed alot less, and recieves more damage when struck by the enemy.
Neutral: Standard stance - as combat currently exists for the Fighter.
Defensive: Fighter hits reasonably softer, recieves less damage when struck by the enemy and dodges more frequently.
- The prior example is the bare bones/essentials of this skill, which is open to further detail/expansion as follows:
Balanced: would leave you as you are.
Accurate: would hit more often, but do less damage.
Agressive: would hit harder, but miss more and one would be prone to take more damage.
Cautious: would dodge more, but not hit as hard.
Defensive: would have you take less damage from opponent attacks, but also your attacks hit less frequently, and damage would be reduced.
- I agree with this remark:
on 11/25/03 at 23:06:14, Stotic wrote:| - I do not agree with double-wielding weapons. The value of armor doesn't even come close to matching the value of attacking with two weapons (more damage). There'd have to be a significant downsize on defense for me to consider it. Maybe a significant lowering of dex? |
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NOTE: All numbers used in this post are purely for example purposes only, and have no bearing on what the figures should specifically be.
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| « Last Edit: 11/26/03 at 00:05:17 by Deval » |
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Sausage
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 11/26/03 at 01:32:13 » |
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I believe Berserkers should have their stamina lowered to 5, giving Fighters the all important 6th stamina.
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Exor
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 11/26/03 at 11:07:18 » |
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1) I agree on the dual weapon idea sort of.But I do not think they should be able to use dual weapons that are long and would actually take two hands to hold.I.E Pikes,Halberds,etc.
Maybe they could use weapons like Blade of Honor+Cobalt or something that would not take two hands to use.
2)If a fighter uses a halberd or something of the sort that would take two hands to use, do not let them use shields.
3) I agree with what stotic said.If they choose to use dual weapons, make it like -3 to dex or something.
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 11/26/03 at 12:32:30 » |
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on 11/26/03 at 11:07:18, Gosu Exor wrote:
3) I agree with what stotic said.If they choose to use dual weapons, make it like -3 to dex or something.
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Seeing as that means that they can't wear a shield anymore it wouldnt make much sense to lower the dex, if anything they should get more dex seeing as they aren't carrieing that big ass shield anymore.
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alone
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 11/26/03 at 12:39:03 » |
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on 11/26/03 at 12:32:30, Banned wrote:
Seeing as that means that they can't wear a shield anymore it wouldnt make much sense to lower the dex, if anything they should get more dex seeing as they aren't carrieing that big ass shield anymore. |
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Sorry to be off-topic, im sure this'll get deleted.
Losing the shield isn't that bad, concidering you'll be doing twice the damage.. Imagine doing 70 normally, enhaned with a Blade of Time.. Now you'd be doing 140*6= 840.. I think the loss of dex is worthy, but maybe only drop 2.
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 11/26/03 at 12:43:18 » |
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on 11/26/03 at 12:39:03, alone wrote:
Sorry to be off-topic, im sure this'll get deleted.
Losing the shield isn't that bad, concidering you'll be doing twice the damage.. Imagine doing 70 normally, enhaned with a Blade of Time.. Now you'd be doing 140*6= 840.. I think the loss of dex is worthy, but maybe only drop 2. |
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Not saying it isn't worth it, just saying that it makes no sense.
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alone
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 11/26/03 at 12:55:48 » |
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on 11/26/03 at 12:43:18, Banned wrote:
Not saying it isn't worth it, just saying that it makes no sense. |
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Holding two big heavy weapons, that'd slow you down a lil bit. (Didn't mean to sound too sarcastic, sorry if it seems that way)
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Mephistroth
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #13 on: 11/26/03 at 12:57:25 » |
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Two swords = heavy and awkward to hold.. thats bound to drop your dext slightly. While it may not drop it by 2/3, who cares? Things have to be realistic yes, but it doesn't matter if somethings slightly over the top. You need to keep the game balanced.
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 11/26/03 at 13:46:23 » |
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on 11/26/03 at 12:57:25, Mephistroth wrote:| Two swords = heavy and awkward to hold.. thats bound to drop your dext slightly. While it may not drop it by 2/3, who cares? Things have to be realistic yes, but it doesn't matter if somethings slightly over the top. You need to keep the game balanced. |
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/library katana
You know how light those things are...i like the idea of losing dex but it has to make a little bit of sense.
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Mephistroth
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 11/26/03 at 16:06:38 » |
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Then make it so the amount of dexterity you lose depends on the 'weight' of the weapon. That would mean that a new set of stats would be introduced for each weapon.
Weight - When creating a weapon you just add in if its light, medium or heavy. Light is 1 dext loss, medium 2 dext and heavy 3?
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| « Last Edit: 11/27/03 at 18:50:47 by Mephistroth » |
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well
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Snowy
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 11/27/03 at 15:53:46 » |
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yeah and also heavy makes u hold it with both hands maybe??
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Silex
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 11/29/03 at 07:25:22 » |
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Fighters cannot fight, they dont need a 1 click ability, but they should be made to where other races do not completely rape them any time they leave town, you never see anyone seriously fighting on a fighter with any alts with them due to the fact that they're useless compared to other classes when it comes to fighting, re-name them or something...Warrior or something similar to that would make much more sense seeing as if people stay long enough or it is 1v1 they can hold a bit, but that isnt how fights go down in nm, so it isnt a fighter.
I'd say give them back the most stamina, zerkers round everything a tad too easily with spells anyway and can use 1-clicking for 6 stam attacks, they make fighters useless.
Rangers have armor just as high as fighters, that is wrong.
The best weapon fighters have their best weapon at lvl 20 and other classes have higher bases on the weapons then fighters, that is wrong. (not including blade of time or csotw because most people do not have them, while almost anyone can get a Dagger of spirits for thier thief, or ED for less than BoT even, and quite simply csotw is for any class and duh.)
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Lich
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 11/30/03 at 12:58:15 » |
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1)make a weapon that can be equiped at lvl 25 that does more damage than a hally like say the rose blade give it just a few more damage points leave the rest alone.
2)Make armor that can be equiped that gives more protection than spiked a little more that you have to equip at a higher lvl and then make something that can be equiped at lvl 30 with a bit more those few things alone would bring the fighters more even. I play fighters mostly yes and my crits are fully equiped. But i am rounded by zerkers who are with in 5 lvls below me easily when they smite. but these few changed are really all that is needed to bring the class even with the rest.
Reasoning behind what I said Roseblade cant be equiped until 25 and has the same BD as a hally makes no sence. Spiked armor being the highest armor that a fighter can obtain puts the fighter at the same armor lvl as all other classes with abilities to do more damage. Fighters need weapons and armor to make up for the fact that they dont hit for as much.
Make these few easily coded changes and it evens them out without making them over powered or changing the basic concept of the crit.
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alone
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Re: Fighter Class Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 11/30/03 at 13:36:43 » |
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The Rose Blade is the best weapon for a Pally, that's why it's the same base as a Hally.
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