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Pandilex
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Druid Class Discussion
« on: 11/25/03 at 14:19:34 » |
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To further improve the balance of classes in Nightmist, I'd like everyone who visits this forum to post, sensibly, what changes they believe should be made to druids. How are they overpowered? How are they underpowered?
I'd like information in great detail, and I'd also like to know how you think they weigh up against the other classes. Which other classes are more powerful? Why?
I need to know how I should change the class to improve it further. To make it easier, I'm asking everyone who has played or played againsit a druids to post their opinions.
To structure this thread better, I would like people to use bullet points to state each piece of information clearly.
If you agree or disagree with another person, simply state that you disagree with [this statement] because ____
If you don't stick to this I will delete your posts, regardless of their contents, because I need to be able to read the information easily, and it makes it much easier when I can see clearly which suggestions are favoured by the majority.
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Eternyte
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #1 on: 11/25/03 at 16:24:03 » |
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1) Druids armor spell boost their armor too much.
Mages are spell casters with limited armor, their spells should boost their armor above that of any other classes. Druid armor spells need to be modded so they aren't as high.
2) Mana Leech wepons are not needed anymore. Previously druids morph of 'lesser wurm' drained mana at alarming rate. This has now been changed, and druids no longer use as much mana.
When a druid is against a paladin/cleric/mage, the druid easily drains all the mana rendering the other class useless. There is no need to give clerics/paladins/mages a mana leech wepon either, because if all the classes had one, it would be the same as all the classes not having one.
*Please note I have considered this class and information within from an unaided point of view*
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Epic
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #2 on: 11/25/03 at 19:49:00 » |
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Dont have many opinions on Druids atm cause mine is only lvl 24..
FINISH descriptions of the morphs, i also think their armor can get way to high and screw most other players over. I also think that they need more stam or get stam quicker cause i hate my idiot druid and his 3 stamina 
...PeAcE
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Mephistroth
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #3 on: 11/25/03 at 22:29:29 » |
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The druids armor is way too high. It goes far above the mages, which, I find to be pretty stupid.
Stormwrath and Nature's Fury are obtained at too lower level. Stormwrath should be level 20 ish, while Nature's fury should be 22. Having stormwrath at level 10 is just a little silly... just under beam damage at level 10? no way lol
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well 
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Silex
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #4 on: 12/01/03 at 04:07:46 » |
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-stormwrath does far too much damage for such a low lvl spell,
-Druids gain a lot of armor, but I dont particurally think it should be lowered by much..i think druids cast 2-3 spells to gain that armor while mages only cast 1 to do their armor..maybe give mages a 2nd spell that makes them ad 30 or so onto the armor gained from AoP.
Edit- and yes, the hawk talon makes them drain mana way way too quickly and they do not use enough mana to really need it much...i think eventually players will wise up and exploit just how effective the weapon could be and that will be bad.
-in my opinion many things were added to the druid race simply because no one used them, there were something like 2-3 arch druids in game when i started playing about a year ago and no one else really seemed to be lvling one up, now there are many people leveling them and i think around 10-15 or so arch ones...the class is actually begining to be used, that is a good thing.
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Bean
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #5 on: 12/01/03 at 04:59:56 » |
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1) make hawk talon drain monster mana.
Thas it... This class doesnt need tweaking, the other classes do.
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Metatron
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #6 on: 12/02/03 at 19:09:45 » |
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I though that monsters didn have mana and i would like to see a morph change shop place for like 10K or something.
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Sausage
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #7 on: 12/02/03 at 23:24:14 » |
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Some monsters do have mana. And I think it should be 30k for a Morph change.
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Bean
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #8 on: 12/03/03 at 01:31:28 » |
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/cough
I would have thought that suggestion would entail giving monsters mana.... 
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Sausage
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #9 on: 12/03/03 at 17:35:00 » |
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Why would you give monsters mana that they will never use?
Surely not just to get drained by a Druid with a Hawk Talon.
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Mephistroth
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 12/03/03 at 22:27:33 » |
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Well, if they have mana then the logical thing to do is to make them use it...
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well
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Sausage
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 12/03/03 at 23:48:45 » |
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I'm down with the whole "Give Monsters Mana" idea...
Not only would it make training ALOT easier, but why give monsters mana, make-up spells, just so druids can train ALOT easier.. They really aren't that hard to train in a party. People just don't.
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Sauruman
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 12/04/03 at 11:10:08 » |
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In my opinion, the class is pretty much a step up from what it was a while back. There are pros and cons about it, like anything in life.
1. The armor spells is one that has been raging on. As it stands, each class has something they execl in. Druids are listed as protectors in nightmist, so it's somewhat obvious that they get the armor spells they have. I'm in favor of leaving the armor spells as it is, and I'll go into more detail in just a bit.
2. Stormwrath needs to be offered at 15, with jolt being offered in it's place at 12. Natures fury needs to be offered at 17-18. Stormwrath needs to be dropped some on players, and kept the same on creatures so that its' harder to use as a PK weapon.
3. They need their 4 stam a little earlier, as they are more physcailly active than, say, a mage or a cleric.
The classes in nightmist have attibutes that make them a choice for some and a turn off for others.
Rangers, they have attacks slightly less powerful than the fighter, but they have more opinions (dual shot, flaming arrow, hypnotise, ect) at no mana charge. Best for variety.
Fighters, they have 6 stam and are able to hold armor, making them hard to drop when properly equipped. Best for rouge-versitility.
Berserkers, they can't hold armor and are prone to miss frequently, but compensate with high attack and high HP gains. Best for powerhousing.
Clerics, they have very low attcks but they get by with high healing and aiding, making them an essential addtion to any class or party. Best for healing and escorting/aiding.
Paladins, they're similar to clerics, but they have stronger attack and heal for less. Best for defending.
Theives, with the ability to invis with no mana, steal gold and your life with one hit, they're almost perfect. Best for quick kills, all around character.
Pacifist, they're loners by nature, unable to attack or be attacked. Best for roleplaying- gold collecting.
Now, that brings us to the druids and the mages, who seem to have borrowed from each other.
The mages should be the reiging king of attack, but they've fallen to being mere illusionists as of late. Whereas a mage with beam struck fear in the hearts of most, the attack is considered laughable. Mages would really benefit from
1. an untweaked devestate
2. flame at lower lvl, 10 perhaps
3. lower resist-fizzle rates
4. either lower mana costs or spell enhancing spell(s)
It would give them the title of most powerful magic users, and make them the best for magical attacking.
Druids should keep the armor they have, there is little tweaking that really needs to be done. The druid is more of a scout-protector. They currently add strategy and versitility, forcing players to think of a strategy that consists of more than just powerhouse and cleric. The step to balancing out the classes is not to down grade one but upgrade the other.
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Mephistroth
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #13 on: 12/04/03 at 11:23:30 » |
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Without meaning to be rude, thats the biggest load of crap i've read... druids are NOT meant to have more armor than mages. They are NOT meant to do the same damage as beam at level 10 (on players). They are NOT meant to have the highest armor in the game, then morph and be able to hit for more than fighters. Either remove the high armor, or increase mages to more than druids. After all, there using a level 28 spell thats a boss drop.. stoneform isn't.
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well
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Bean
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 12/04/03 at 20:14:58 » |
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I also dont mean to be rude, but why are they not supposed to have more armor than mages?
They control the elements, therefore they can call MUCH MORE to their aid to defend their body, whereas a mage simply has his own magical power.
Everything else you said I agree with meph.
They should get stormwrath later... and I dunno what could be done about morph....
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Sauruman
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 12/04/03 at 21:10:42 » |
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druids are NOT meant to have more armor than mages.
Reason being? Mages are all about attack spells, which is why you can't stack their armor (well, dunno about AoP, but the rest can't be stacked). If a druid didn't have the 'ridiculous' armor that they have (somewhat like the 'ridiculous' HP gains of berserker), then what would be the reason in playing one? Anything you wanted on a druid you could find in some other class.
They are NOT meant to do the same damage as beam at level 10 (on players).
Um, you're agreeing with what I said. *points to his article* Turn down the damage on players, keep it the same on NPC's. And stormwrath should be availbe at 15, with jolt at 10 (or 12, wherever stormwrath is now)
They are NOT meant to have the highest armor in the game,
The armor is proportional by thier wisdom. So the only way you're going to get mad armor is if you roll a good elf. Which, btw, has 18 str.
then morph and be able to hit for more than fighters.
:D If this is the scenario, then what about paladins and their mad dex enhancing powers? Druids don't hit as much as fighters, I've got 19 x 19 18 19 x on my druid and I still have to run from fighters, theives and most certainly rangers and berserkers. Which, BTW, all hit me for more than I do them.
Either remove the high armor, or increase mages to more than druids.
Mages have low HP to compensate for their (should be) madly high attack spells. Because if mages armor gets turned up, how is that going to help you level quicker? Nobody has the mana to keep casting armor spells every minute, and no class should be hitting for 50-55 max at lvl 24(with the exception of clerics). With three stam. Mages were always known as the magical attackers, wiping out entire parties single handedly.
After all, there using a level 28 spell thats a boss drop.. stoneform isn't.
What come as a boss drop to some classes comes not so hard to others. The hally is easier to get than the staff of power.
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Chinsu
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 12/04/03 at 22:33:28 » |
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meh I was honestly trying to avoid posting here for some odd reason but here goes...
1. Armour is fine.
Druids = mainly defensive magic
Mages = mainly offensive
Druids are protectors of nature including themselves.
2. Spell lvls need to be rearranged.
Possibly something around...
Jolt - lvl 12
Stormwrath - lvl 17
Nature's Fury - lvl 20
3. Hawk Talon should leech less mana.
I actually don't think it should be done away with entirely because without it, a druid wouldn't stand a chance against a cleric or pally.
4. An unmorph option is needed.
It's annoying to have to log out and back in just to unmorph to duel someone again.
This option however will complicate things and become an advantage because of the half heal received from morphing... one solution might be to have morph require the same amount of mp to morph as the hp which is gained so it would be a trade off and nothing really would be gained.
Ex: A druid with 282 hp could morph and regain half the hp (141) by using 141mp.
BUT this could only apply to druids with over 200hp (around lvl 21)
Also if this was done it would put the leeching power of the hawk talon back into need.
Well that's a bit complicating... a MUCH easier solution might be to just scrap the half heal and increase the healing power of the heal spell (which is currently pathetic).
5. Ability to reset animal morph.
The whole idea of morphing is to morph into the animal which best suits the situation. Being stuck in one morph is rather boring.
An interesting idea would be to have a different set animal for different areas... such as a bear for the forest... lion for mountains...etc...
But I wouldn't dare dream to ask for somthing that complex... 
So another simpler idea would be to have the different morphs give different advantages much like the old morph. The current morph logically makes no sense because all the animal choices are different and have different abilities irl.
Ex: Lions are faster than bears
If not then at least have a morph change shop with a small fee to change the set morph.
6. more morph options
Why is the majority of the morph options felines?? Was there a special cat marathon on the Animal Planet (tv station) or somthing?? As much as I love cats there should be more of a variety of choices like an anaconda or some other type of reptile.
~subliminal message: add bunny morphhhhhh  ~
>I've got some more things to whine about and more probably terrible ideas but I'll post them later seeing as it took me too long to type this and now I've got a crap load of hw -.-' <
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Jace_Risky
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 12/05/03 at 05:36:03 » |
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Well, the morphset to me would be like choosing the animal which best fits your personality or relative abilty.
I agree on keeping the armor the way it is, as druids are given back credit for their work for nature.(Think of it kind of as a pacifist's tribute to the deity)
To balance some of the things out, I do agree on the idea of some of the spells being learned a little later as mentioned above.
#this is all I can think of as of now but I'll be sure to post more.
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Diagonyte
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 12/05/03 at 15:42:58 » |
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I think druids are fine the way they are and maybe a drop item/morph would be very nice. as far as balance goes I think stormwrath and natures fury should come arouns 20-25 and that one should be noticeablystronger cause stormswrath and natures fury do just about the same dmg and that sux(unless ur pkin in the sewers i think stormwrath should do more dmg because it has restrictions to it and cause of the names stormswrath which leads one to believe you made a "storm" of some sort to attack someone.As for the morph drop i think it should drop a scroll that allows you to morph into a powerfull creature not too powerful like a baby dragon of something :S
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Mephistroth
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Re: Druid Class Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 12/05/03 at 15:44:16 » |
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Reason being? Mages are all about attack spells, which is why you can't stack their armor (well, dunno about AoP, but the rest can't be stacked). If a druid didn't have the 'ridiculous' armor that they have (somewhat like the 'ridiculous' HP gains of berserker), then what would be the reason in playing one? Anything you wanted on a druid you could find in some other class.
lol ok... i'm not going to bother fighting about it, you still won't believe me and I still won't believe you.
Um, you're agreeing with what I said. *points to his article* Turn down the damage on players, keep it the same on NPC's. And stormwrath should be availbe at 15, with jolt at 10 (or 12, wherever stormwrath is now)
I didn't say that I wasn't agreeing with you, I just said they shouldn't be able to do it. Which they shouldn't. Also, stormwrath should be around level 20 i'd say, with Nature's Fury following a few levels after.
The armor is proportional by thier wisdom. So the only way you're going to get mad armor is if you roll a good elf. Which, btw, has 18 str.
So? Mages spells are proportional to their intelligence.. big whoop.. I don't quite see how this is relevant.
:D If this is the scenario, then what about paladins and their mad dex enhancing powers? Druids don't hit as much as fighters, I've got 19 x 19 18 19 x on my druid and I still have to run from fighters, theives and most certainly rangers and berserkers. Which, BTW, all hit me for more than I do them.
Ok, when you actually have a decent druid come and post. At level 28, mine was hitting for 130 damage with morph on sand spiders, and when dueling a fighter I hit for around 70. Spelled up on spiders, not on fighter.
Mages have low HP to compensate for their (should be) madly high attack spells. Because if mages armor gets turned up, how is that going to help you level quicker? Nobody has the mana to keep casting armor spells every minute, and no class should be hitting for 50-55 max at lvl 24(with the exception of clerics). With three stam. Mages were always known as the magical attackers, wiping out entire parties single handedly.
lol, so far mages are out classed in every way. A druid does more damage, has more armor. A fighter does more damage, has more hp, has more armor. They need to actually be good at something, and
What come as a boss drop to some classes comes not so hard to others. The hally is easier to get than the staff of power.
Also isn't as powerful.
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Ok, so I kinda didn't ask.. oh well
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