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Topic: One on One to show how good druids are (Read 1537 times) |
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Sauruman
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #20 on: 05/21/03 at 16:39:49 » |
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I'll have to duel a cleric to show how BS their ability to heal for in the 100's is. Most of us already know, though. Dealing with TR (not hating on them, they just use clerics in just about all the pking they do) and how they can tear through just about any crit with the various spells of a cleric casted on them. Spells that are, for some odd reason, stronger (waaaay stronger) than a mage's.
Fighters overall:_________________3197
Thieves overall:_________________2729
Berserkers overall:_______________2321
Rangers overall:_________________1989
Clerics overall:__________________1844
Mages overall:__________________1574
Paladins overall:_________________1292
Druids overall:___________________1100
You've got a better chance of running into a paladin than you do a druid. and of the druids that are up there, the average 'high' level is 26.
They rarely get more mana than hp, and the get an average of 200 -hp- at around lvl 21-22.
how well does he fare when he's not suspecting an attack, rather than in a duel?
Am I stating that druids suck? No. I'm saying that they're not as much of a threat as you think, A. B, how many druids have you been pked by lately and C, if they are more powerful than a fighter, what's wrong with that? Who says that the druids can't be the most powerful class? Logically speaking, there has to be a most powerful class, laws of nature.
Any class can potentially rule the game, but it's a matter of what is actually happening. What it boils down to is that peeps are somewhat contempt with having high lvl fighters and rangers, and they don't want to get train another character. Because if it wasn't so, then people would jump onto the druid bandwagon quickly (the berserkers came out less than 6 months ago, and they already outnumber the druid race more than 2 to 1), if they were as powerful as currently stated. I'm sorry, the whole "a fleet of druids are going to own the entire game" just seems -highly- unlikely.
Why not give fighters a 10% increase in stam regain speed.
Rangers, what more could they need? ACCURACY!!!
Theives are pretty much okay.
Paladins could -kinda- benefit from an increase in hit damage, but they heal and if they were tantamount to fighters, then fighters would be useless.
Berserker, dunno. They seem to be doing okay.
Mage, 3 words. look-in-forums. There's so many good ideas from people, its crazy that they're not upped yet.
Clerics are MORE than okay.
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Horror
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #21 on: 05/21/03 at 16:59:09 » |
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How much evidence do you need? A level 28 with basic equip, should NOT be able to beat an arch fighter, who has a Blade of Time, Amulet of Hermes, 4 Crystal Rings, Spider Gauntlets, Boots of Time. THAT IS OVERPOWERED! No matter what you say, druids are over powered. Even in situations with more than one person they are, getting hit for 20 damage max from an arch fighters hally is quite useful, means you can take a lot of stam before you die.
Druids fair just as well as other classes when they get jumped. They get dropped straight away. For someone to actually attack you, they would have to be better. And a lot of them would be invis, or spelled up, meaning you get rounded (Any class would)
You'll have to duel a cleric? Wasn't it you that said you only had a level 24 druid? That would mean nothing, you need a decent druid to duel a high level cleric (that can heal for 100s). Ill duel one and show you the result.
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Sauruman
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #22 on: 05/21/03 at 17:55:05 » |
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I said lvl 23, but who's counting.
Clerics heal for the damage of a mage's beam at lvl 18.
And according to you, a lvl 23 druid should be able to beat any crit two levels or less above me.
How much work does it take to train a fighter, and how much does it take to train a druid? Really, the mage should be the most powerful (they need devestate) seeing as they require the most work to get to a high level.
and druids are still stuck at 3 stam until level 25. so it's spell cast(stoneform)+ spell cast(gaea's blessing)+ attack. that is, until level 25. unless they're all spelled up.
and could it be that a halfling fighter just sucks? seriously, they do, the extra dex doesn't really help. My halfling ranger (18str, 21 dex) hits WAY less than my elf ranger (18str, 19 dex).
I'll bet you a level 28 ranger could beat the same fighter, and to size a lvl 28 theif against ANYTHING (that isn't spelled) is almost instant death.
and once more, how many times have you just been outright jumped by druids and beaten?
*contrary to the popular belief, my main crit is my theif. those who have seen him hate him.*
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Horror
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #23 on: 05/21/03 at 18:35:49 » |
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I've never been jumped by a druid, as most people don't own one. Why are you going on about Rangers? This is a druid discussion, not rangers. Go take your ranger posts elsewhere.
Anyway, I never said a level 23 druid can take out anything 2 levels higher. I don't know if they could, i've never used one that low level. A level 28 druid, if used right, could beat any level 30 (except maybe clerics and mages, not sure about clerics) A level 25 might be able to, when I dueled with mine at level 25, he had 4 CRs and an Amulet of the Lich, so he was slightly better than your average level 25 druid. Although the stats dragged him down a bit.
How much work does it take to train a fighter? More than a druid. Level 10, druids hit for 50 damage each stam, Fighters do not hit for anywhere near that much.
I'm a bit confused here, you've now changed your mind, and are saying that mages should be more powerful than druids.. I have said that all along...
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Pile
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #24 on: 05/21/03 at 20:02:56 » |
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I totally agree with all that Horror has said here. Now I don’t know him personally but it pretty much looks like this guy spends a fair bit of time playing druids; it would seem he is actually trying to improve things. Sauruman, yet again your arguments are completely unfounded. The argument about there being hardly any druids is a complete waste of time. I think it is total bs that because they are still not that popular yet they should be left overpowered.
I don’t see how your elf ranger hits less than the halfling, dexterity has such a big effect in this game. That fighter equipped to 22 dexterity and all that armour is a serious contender. Unless a dwarf thief got lucky, a thief could not beat that fighter, especially if left naked like the druid.
For the last time, just because the mainstream of nightmist isn’t being ‘jumped’ by druids does not mean they are not overpowered. Not counting a cobalt staff, I don’t think there is a fighter in Nightmist that could take down a decent lvl 29 druid being used right.
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Insomnia
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #25 on: 05/21/03 at 23:05:59 » |
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Haven't read through the posts; only posting since I read the "druids are overpowered" part.
Druids aren't overpowered. Actually, they have no real use in the nightmist world of today. It looks like 95% of today's fighting consists of hit and runs (sadly), where there are 2 big advantages a crit can have;
1. One click ability. Thieves, rangers and berserkers popping out being invisible. You're dead in less than 2 seconds, and if you're standing there with a oh so overpowered druid, you might be able to hit your opponent once (for 40 damage)´- if you're lucky - before you die due to your low HP.
2. High HP. The reason to why fighters (and berserkers) are strong. They can stand there and wait for someone to pop out and attack them, without being (in most cases) afraid of getting clicked or killed before you get a chance to heal/drink.
Now except for this, a mage is strong due to casting invisibility, and a cleric is strong due to casting strength spells, vision + healing (if you're fast enough).
The only classes left now (that are useless for the regular style of fighting today) are Paladins and Druids. Paladins are good, I guess, for events such as moshes and the triplex, which is actually is a big part of the game aswell.
The only place where a druid is usefull is in the challenge arena, 1 vs. 1. But honestly, who cares about what your crit can do 1 on 1 in a dueling arena?
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Bean
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #26 on: 05/22/03 at 00:58:01 » |
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So a druid wastes 1 v 1..... so what?
How often do you get 1 v 1 battles in this game? Like never unless like in this post someone is trying to prove a point about something. The main stream of battle has been concentrated (Sp?) upon the one click ability of zerkers, thieves, and rangers.
Even the moshes are NEVER a 1 v 1 battle, There is always some kind of truce between a group of players *We've all seen the resistance use this tactic, Not complaining though*. Even the triplex is a 1 v 1 v 1 battle by the end, and thats the only time I can see a druid having a chance, otherwise its a 3 v 3 battle.
So really this power druids have is essentially useless as insomnia said.
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Sauruman
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #27 on: 05/22/03 at 01:20:22 » |
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"Sauruman, yet again your arguments are completely unfounded. The argument about there being hardly any druids is a complete waste of time. I think it is total bs that because they are still not that popular yet they should be left overpowered."
Then answer this: why are there more berserkers than druids? Druids have been out for at least a year before berserkers, and (as shown in the official web page) there are more than twice the amount berserkers as there is druids.
Looks like people just don't care much for druids, man. That, or they're not as powerful as you all state. *shrugs*
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Chinsu
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #28 on: 05/22/03 at 04:56:18 » |
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It's not that people don't care for druids... it's that many people still underestimate them. The most amusing thing is when someone comes along talking smack about rounding me.... beating the crap out of me...etc etc... and end up getting owned only to be left with  on their face.
I also agree with the fact that druids are mostly only good in a 1 vs 1 situation. Put a druid out in the big bad real world and it's useless. (except for mapping  )
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Horror
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #29 on: 05/22/03 at 16:02:44 » |
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No there not useless. More hp than a mage, slightly less damage than a mage, with an invis spell that lasts about 2 minutes. Not to mention the 130+ armour with basic shop equip. An arch zerker spelled up, hit me for 55 with his blade of time, that was on my old level 25. This means that they can cast stormwrath a lot of times while getting attacked for low damage, and then just morph and get 100+ hp back, and hit for the same amount of damage as fighters, with a higher chance of hitting.
Druids ARE over powered. The numbers mean nothing. There are only more zerkers because they sell for more (some people train them to sell) there probably the easiest class to train, and most people remember them (or have heard about) how good they were pre reset.
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Sauruman
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #30 on: 05/23/03 at 00:48:57 » |
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More hp than a mage, slightly less damage than a mage, with an invis spell that lasts about 2 minutes.
The invis can only be used on them, and it costs more.
Not to mention the 130+ armour with basic shop equip.
After spells. It's not like they can walk around with it on all the time, stoneform only lasts for 60 seconds, morph can only be done once every 5 minutes and once morphed, you have no spell casting abilities.
An arch zerker spelled up, hit me for 55 with his blade of time, that was on my old level 25.
Okay, the character doesn't get owned easily. It's not like the armor attacks or anything, it's like calling someone bad for defending themself.
This means that they can cast stormwrath a lot of times while getting attacked for low damage,
With mana that is already low due to stoneform and gaea's blessing, and if they were expecting the attack. Oh, and there are resists and partial resists, most of the characters nowadays have 18+ wis.
and then just morph and get 100+ hp back, and hit for the same amount of damage as fighters, with a higher chance of hitting.
LOL!!! With NO armor enhancements (44 armor at the time, that's not too much, is it?  ) I was hit with a weapon for no higher than 86. And it was draining my mana, so it had to be hawk's talon. Oh, and it took a good couple of hits to take me out = he wasn't hitting for much.
Druids ARE over powered.
Personal opinion backed by idealistic but none the less unlogical reasoning.
The numbers mean nothing.
They mean tons. They mean that you have a good chance of getting hit by berserkers more than druids, that if druids were as good as you say then more people would have them also.
Think in comparison of the number of people killed in car wrecks vs. the number of people killed in airplane wrecks, and which once is considered to be more dangerous. (hint: it has wings)
There are only more zerkers because they sell for more (some people train them to sell) there probably the easiest class to train, and most people remember them (or have heard about) how good they were pre reset.
So you're saying that it has nothing to do with how hard they hit or how good they are with their 450+ hp, or the ability to assassinate you with a halberd?
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Bean
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #31 on: 05/23/03 at 00:50:27 » |
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Way to ignore the whole 'You'll never get a 1v1 battle ingame nowadays' Arguement horror.
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Horror
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #32 on: 05/23/03 at 08:20:06 » |
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Way to ignore the whole 'You'll never get a 1v1 battle ingame nowadays' Arguement horror.
I forgot to answer that, sorry. You do get quite a few one on one situations, I started pking with my mage, and its suprising how many one on ones i've had in the forest, barracks etc with archies. A lot of the time you only get more than one person fighting you if you piss off a clan, or they get friends. You can do that aswell
So you're saying that it has nothing to do with how hard they hit or how good they are with their 450+ hp, or the ability to assassinate you with a halberd?
Unless there spelled up they don't hit that hard, 450+ hp is nothing, everyone always goes for the zerker so they die almost straight away, and dagger of spirits actually has a higher base than hally
Personal opinion backed by idealistic but none the less unlogical reasoning.
My opinion and quite a few others.
With mana that is already low due to stoneform and gaea's blessing, and if they were expecting the attack. Oh, and there are resists and partial resists, most of the characters nowadays have 18+ wis.
At level 28 druids don't get resisted that much. I've often hit every time for 48 damage against archies. Thats almost the same damage as beam, with a lower mana cost.
The numbers mean nothing.
By that I meant the numbers of zerkers, and druids mean nothing (You saying theres over twice as many zerkers than druids)
LOL!!! With NO armor enhancements (44 armor at the time, that's not too much, is it? ) I was hit with a weapon for no higher than 86. And it was draining my mana, so it had to be hawk's talon. Oh, and it took a good couple of hits to take me out = he wasn't hitting for much.
Thats why you cast armour spell a few seconds before you morph, that way you get the increased armour + morph for a minute, which allows you to do a lot of damage without taking much, and you drain mana while morphed aswell (Not 100% sure on this, but I think I noticed my druid draining mana)
The invis can only be used on them, and it costs more.
Camo lasts twice as long as invis, while only costing 5 more mana, doesn't matter if you can only cast it on yourself, still seems better than invis to me.
Sorry if I missed anything out.
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Norinth
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #33 on: 05/23/03 at 20:54:05 » |
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If every class had 30 hp max and the best weapon was a toothpick (for fighters, mages can't use those, they are too heavy) or a tooth brush for zerkers, then everyone would be happy!
* Norinth hits 'Someone' with a Stinky Sock for 0.214645 points of damage.
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King o Sausage
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #34 on: 05/23/03 at 21:04:47 » |
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Was that supposed to be amusing??
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Bean
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #35 on: 05/24/03 at 01:03:56 » |
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Good point horror, Although nowadays people travel with 2+ crits very frequently to keep from getting pked.
which means running into a sole player is pretty rare, Oh well must be your lucky 
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Lit
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #36 on: 06/17/03 at 00:16:11 » |
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Every class has its advantage, with thieves and rangers the one clicking is an advantage in parties, quickly eliminating your opponent. Take the spells that druids have now and what good are they? Stoneform wears off so quickly that it shouldn't even be considered a factor. Seems as every month there's a new trend and a class is slightly overpowered until something new comes out. People will complain just to complain. 3/4 of you who post this thread don't even own a high enough druid to state an opinion that is relevant to the class. But because no one takes the time to train a druid they complain not owning one, when they could be reaping the benefits they do possess instead. Other classes have been overpowered for quite some time, maybe it's time for a change?
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Eternyte
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #37 on: 06/17/03 at 17:37:21 » |
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Druids to clarify
Lasts only 1 minute, well what do you expect, the spell only costs 10mp.
This spell rocks, lasts for 5 mins, and costs 30mp.
Heals back for 'Half total hp', at a 100mp cost. Hits very hard.
Nice base damage. Magical. Mana leech.
Okies, the basics, in comparison to other classes.
Druids cast Stormwrath for 46ish and costs 10 mp. Mages Beam for 55ish and costs 17mp.
Gaea's Blessing lasts for 5 minutes, and costs 30mp. Mages Aura of Protection lasts for approx 70secs, and costs 40mp.
Camouflage lasts for about 1min 50secs, and costs 20mp. Invisibility lasts for 40 secs, also costs 20mp (Granted can be casted upon others, but thats not the point).
When a Druid is fighting against what are usually everyone elses nemesis' aka Mages/Paladins/Cleric. The Druid can leech their mana, usually approx 100 per hit. Which leaves the magic user furiosly using mana crystals.
Also when morphed the Druid gains back 'half total hp', aslong as they keep 100mp to cast morph. They then hit usually 50+, with the odd 60-70 hit, aswell as the odd low damage hit.
Granted from a speed of killing point of view a Druid does not rank to highly, but non the less is a d**n good class. Also 1 v's 1, with no pots a Druid is a force to be reakoned with.
Personally I've changed my mind a thoughts with Druids. They arent overpowered, but strong when used correctly. However, their armor spells should not exceed that of a Mages on no account!!...and that is my only quarrel with them.
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King o Sausage
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #38 on: 06/17/03 at 18:26:13 » |
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I'm not a big Mage or Druid user. So, how much armor does AoP, Gaea's Blessing, and Stoneform give?
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Chinsu
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Re: One on One to show how good druids are
« Reply #39 on: 06/17/03 at 19:39:51 » |
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A druid with 19 wis gets 28 armor from gaea's and 38 from stone. A 1 wis difference affects each spell by 2 armour, so a druid with 20 wis gets 30 and 40. Lvl has no factor in this.
Edit: Also, morph heals half the druid's hp. So my druid with 281hp would heal for 140 (Rounds down) and my druid with 176hp for 88.
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Misconception what you see.
Happiness this cannot be.
Pain, hatred, insanity.
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