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Topic: Ownership (Read 1563 times) |
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Epic
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Whammo
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Ownership
« on: 07/28/03 at 00:51:49 » |
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Just alittle thing im going over....
1st off...Staff strongly disagree with people sharing anything.
2nd...Possession is 9/10ths of the law.
So if someone shared say o i dunno..a chairman crit with someone else and 1 of the 2 persons takes it...Looking back at rule #1.....As far as staff should be concerned its nobodys fault but your own that one of the two people took the hypothetical chaiman crit....
Now looking at point #2...the person that has the chairman crit has position therfor he owns what he has and should be able to do what he wants with what he has correct?
So by all means everyone post on this and add your two cents...and i encourage staff to post also
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| « Last Edit: 07/28/03 at 01:49:47 by Pandilex » |
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Epic
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Whammo
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #1 on: 07/28/03 at 01:48:14 » |
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Pls everyone post something with what you think
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Zephie
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #2 on: 07/28/03 at 01:59:04 » |
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ok, here's what i think 
i think your opinion of the individuals involved is making you a tad biased and not letting you see the situation for what it really is. what's right and what's wrong and what's fair and what isn't fair.
if you take a minute and think back without letting your personal feelings blur your vision, i'm sure you will realize that the real chairman was rob (astinus is his main, i think)
if down the line the clan HAS to be sold, the money should either
a) be split between the 'two' sharing chairmans (or so they claim)
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b) the logs be checked to see who the original chairman was and if there was ever an 'official' "hey lets share chairman" conversation.
if this had happend to any clan, let's say Broken....and Lich appointed himself chairman instead of lady_maha, wouldn't you still think the clan belonged to Lady_Maha ?
in all honesty, i really doubt jlh has time for b....so hopefully maybe a can be done, or nothing at all.
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Limit
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #3 on: 07/28/03 at 02:45:08 » |
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Ok well being that both people shared the clan from the beginning say in fact which happened " one founder booted the other one out due to clan issues; fighting etc. That founder had his right to do it because he did own the clan... now you cant split a clan in half correct? So the only way to fix the problem would be get rid of the problem correct? ok so thats what happened. And since the current chairman did own it as well and did make the decision to push the other one out was between them and no one else. So i dont think you can call it stealing or say it was anyones clan.
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Pandilex
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #4 on: 07/28/03 at 03:24:25 » |
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We've handed clans to you on a plate... We gave you leaders and members, but leaders kept booting everyone and stealing the clan because people made people they didn't know well leaders.
We then gave you founders, leaders and members because you chose poorly when it came to leaders and didn't want people taking over your clans.
We then gave you chairmen/women, for when you foolishly appointed founders who you could not completely trust.
And now, given all these things, despite chairpersons and founders being totally unnecessary if you excerise vigilance and caution in selecting who leads your clan, you still screw up....
Well staff were reluctant to help before, and even moreso after the above changes.
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Limit
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #5 on: 07/28/03 at 03:37:36 » |
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Which makes me wonder the whole reason staff is neglecting to sell that clan. And then you will come back with the clan was stolen. That would be contradicting all you just said.
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Epic
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Whammo
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #6 on: 07/28/03 at 03:49:41 » |
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Me "liking" one person and not "liking" the other really doesnt have anything to do with what im saying....it all comes down to who has possession and that is this one person that has it now.
Its his own fault he was sharing a chairman crit....like staff says....."Dont share"
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Stotic
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #7 on: 07/28/03 at 03:58:10 » |
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on 07/28/03 at 02:45:08, Violate wrote:| So the only way to fix the problem would be get rid of the problem correct? ok so thats what happened. |
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I don't see how taking a clan you bi-own and selling it fixes the clan's problem. Seems just like a quick money making scheme. I may be wrong for that I've been gone for a week.
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Limit
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #8 on: 07/28/03 at 04:05:43 » |
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considering the money was going back to most the people who put the money into ... i dont think anyone would be making any profit really. And JLH stated when u donate to a clan you donate to the chairman.
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Epic
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Whammo
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #9 on: 07/28/03 at 04:52:12 » |
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Staff doesnt support sharing
Ownership is 9 10ths
The losing persons own fault
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Lady_Maha
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #10 on: 07/28/03 at 05:20:29 » |
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on 07/28/03 at 01:59:04, Zephie wrote:
if this had happend to any clan, let's say Broken....and Lich appointed himself chairman instead of lady_maha, wouldn't you still think the clan belonged to Lady_Maha ?
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Well, Broken does belong to both of us, and did from the very beginning, when we shared the costs for the clan creation and the first few rooms (creating the clan on Lady_Maha simply happened because I was the one online at the time we decided to start the clan). That's why we decided to create the crit Broken_Chairman, that sits in a shared account. If Broken ever ended up getting sold (which will happen the day hell freezes over), we would not only split the winnings between each other, but also give the fair share to those who worked and donated.
The one advantage that makes sharing a little safer for us is, that we also live together (cuz we're married in rl), so if either of us ripped the other off, we coud just beat the sh*t out of the other one in rl and get the clan and crits back by force. (cast iron skillet can work wonders  )
I don't think that I would trust anyone aside from my rl husband with the chairman of Broken though.
What happened in DA was a whole different story though, the two who shared the chairman crit were not related or living together.
Going by rules, yes, Rob shared, got booted and lost.
Going by ethics however, I'd say it was wrong to do so.
Unfortunately not all rules are always ethical, so in the end Rob seems to be the loser.
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Doublement
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #11 on: 07/28/03 at 06:51:43 » |
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I'd still like to understand what people were saying about Anarchy sharing with some girl who gave out his pass, he lost a lot of stuff..and it was all returned. If he was sharing and the girl gave out his pass, then how can he have all of his stuff given back? I think the fact that sharing isn't supported by staff should mean they do not give a d**n if you lose because you shared, thats what happend when Newb got banned, his whole account was banned...we couldnt access any of the crits to get gold (we managed to get that anyway) but couldnt get pandilex to give us the equip off of the crits because sharing isnt endorsed by staff, then they shouldnt be given anything either. Don't give back clans, equip, crits, or anything else if someone makes the mistake of sharing with someone that changes things on them, it is their own fault. That is why we (chase and i) stopped sharing with someone we didnt know irl, it is too big of a chance that somoene will have a mood swing and rip you off.
Don't share, don't lose. Do share, take the risk, but dont expect to be given you stuff back. It seems to me that staffers should set up some kind of strict rule, and the only thing that makes sense to me would be to say, they ignore you if you say you shared and were ripped. Having your account hacked seems like it ought to be different, but how does staff know if they were hacked or if they told their password on a different form of internet communiction (oo i liked that one..seems intelligent).
that is my "2 cents", peace
Gaddy
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Epic
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Whammo
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #12 on: 07/28/03 at 07:07:11 » |
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on 07/28/03 at 05:20:29, Lady_Maha wrote:
Unfortunately not all rules are always ethical, so in the end Rob seems to be the loser.
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Payne
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #13 on: 07/28/03 at 08:05:41 » |
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on 07/28/03 at 04:05:43, Violate wrote:| considering the money was going back to most the people who put the money into ... i dont think anyone would be making any profit really. And JLH stated when u donate to a clan you donate to the chairman. |
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when i see something like this all i got to do is laugh..#1 Me/Vic/Jose/RaFa put in clan over 4 mill gold thank u very much (combined) on the other hand Rick has not donated anything even close to that amount..he gets mad like a girl cuz he was wrong over clerics needing char(cuz more char does =more healing) so he then decides to steal the clan..so ok i was wrong for sharing bam i lost my clan...same day he said "im not selling clan just cleaning it up" bam ok next day everyone is removed form clan.bam ok he wants to sell clan.Now check this out.
The Chairman of a clan can submit the clan house for selling if there is no-one in the clan apart from the chairman, and the clan must have a house. The house is sold only for 75% of its value, not the name of the clan. A successful submission will be placed on the clan house selling list, with the date of placement.
---->A minimum of 1 week after this, the clan will be sold by JLH. During this time, complaints can be raised with JLH if the clan shouldn't be sold for some reason.<-----
and JLH decided not to sell. seing that my "Family" put a good chunk of money into the clan i dont see a problem of leaving it as it is. He wanted clan? now he has it just cant be sold like he wanted from the start. now u guys (obviosly he paying ya) are sticking up for him. didnt he want the clan well now its his "FOREVER" i myself see nothing wrong with that.
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PurpleHaze03
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #14 on: 07/28/03 at 08:14:55 » |
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Seeing as i was 'away'. Bill took over my account. i know he sold alot of my stuff to buy rooms in that clan. It didnt really bother me as long as rob was chairman. But i will not kiss ricks azz to get gold he will never see. Rick stole the clan. Rob lost out. Ryan, Bill, Dustin Rafa, Vic, Jose and I all lost out. Ryan, and Dustin remember merc? i put in 2mill in 30mins and lost it in 3 days, rick cannot be trusted and if u want to lose friends over money you will never see, go for it. I guess im done, cuz i got dycked pretty bad but rob got it the worse. Not only being betrayed by a friend. But losing an empire
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CPG
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #15 on: 07/28/03 at 08:34:01 » |
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I've gotten screwed out of so many things it's not even funny. Millions upon millions of gold in crits gone, not to mention from people I thought were friends. I'm just too nice for my own good. I've always talked about starting over, but now that I have to, it's ridiculous. My fault for sharing, but jesus, stealing characters on a game? Grow up.
As far as clan theft goes, that is an issue which is more easily resolved than item/character theft. Info from players is usually enough evidence to know who the clan actually belongs to. If it's not, then i'd think it would be an easy task to search the logs to find who created the clan.
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Kalel
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #16 on: 07/28/03 at 10:04:57 » |
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Ok I will go on my second rant for the day becuse for heaven sakes no one take any freaken responsablity for there own actions and perhpas what pandilex said is true and step by step with leaders then founders and then chairman/wooman every one just kept up the same bs and where lettings other people rip you off so if you realy want a salution for this here is what should be done,
Let me try and exsplane this as best as I can
JLH Is adding a acount vualt of some time so... after that is done the following would happen
If The Clan Is Going To Be Copleatly Gone IE Just Sale The Rooms Back To JLH Then.
1 Memo Is Sent To All Members Stating That The Clan Will Be No More.
2 The Chairman/Woman Gose To The Site And Sales The Rooms Off
3 (Heres The Kicker) All Money Donated To The Clan Via The Clan Bank Will Go Back To The Person Who Donated It To There Acount Vult
If The Clan Is Being Sold To Another Person Nothing Would Change
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Epic
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Whammo
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #17 on: 07/28/03 at 11:03:38 » |
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It all comes down to who the chairman (owner) is...rick has the chairman crit therfor hes the owner....the owner of the clan can do what they wish with the clan(in this situation) so since rick is the owner he should be able to sell the clan house if he wants to.
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Zephie
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #18 on: 07/28/03 at 12:30:44 » |
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and this is nightmist, and jlh can choose whether or not he wants to sell or not.
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Zylia
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Re: Ownership
« Reply #19 on: 07/28/03 at 12:37:13 » |
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I kinda have to agree here. Seeing as sharing isn't promoted.. the chairperson crit never should have been shared and the person who has the chairperson crit now should be able to sell the clan. It never should've been shared, and so they both took a risk. It's not the staff's fault that the two parties involved shared and the chairperson crit was stolen. It should just go through as usual I think. Maybe because its alot of gold involved, but I don't know. It doesn't make sense that staff should be assisting this problem. It says in the rules that staff clearly don't promote sharing, and then when a clan is stolen via sharing they help out. Why does that not make sense? The only thing that really prevents the sale is that someone complained about their own ignorance I guess?  (no offense )
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