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Title: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Pandilex on 11/25/03 at 14:18:13 To further improve the balance of classes in Nightmist, I'd like everyone who visits this forum to post, sensibly, what changes they believe should be made to berserkers. How are they overpowered? How are they underpowered? I'd like information in great detail, and I'd also like to know how you think they weigh up against the other classes. Which other classes are more powerful? Why? I need to know how I should change the class to improve it further. To make it easier, I'm asking everyone who has played or played againsit a berserker to post their opinions. To structure this thread better, I would like people to use bullet points to state each piece of information clearly. If you agree or disagree with another person, simply state that you disagree with [this statement] because ____ If you don't stick to this I will delete your posts, regardless of their contents, because I need to be able to read the information easily, and it makes it much easier when I can see clearly which suggestions are favoured by the majority. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Eternyte on 11/25/03 at 16:19:21 1) Berserkers are too strong against mages. This is because their hp is superior to every other class. Also with mages limited damage, they don't really affect berserkers. Perhaps berserkers could be modified to be hurt by magic more than other classes. As I have stated in numerous other posts. 2)Berskers as a single class hit hard, but miss a fair amount of times. Against rangers/paladins/fighters/druids they hurt a berserker massively due to the zero armor factor. The beserkers only real chance is if they totally smite, or totally berserk the other class. Berserkers should really only kill via an all out stamina attack. It states in many paragraphs about them, that they get torn apart unless they hit first where they do devastating damage. I personally think shields need to be introduced, the armor on the shield would depend how strong the berserker. i.e. a human berserker with 19 strength could obviously not weild as big a shield as an half-orc with 22 strength. As stated somewhere else on the forums, perhaps berserkers could lose 1 stamina, but maybe hit a little harder and more often. This would also give fighters some originality back. *Please note I have considered this class and information within from an unaided point of view* |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Epic on 11/25/03 at 19:38:28 I have to go after that? I think zerkers are way to powerful, they are the only class that can round things/someone and cant be rounded..wtf...they can round arch crits with 5 of their 6 stam, spelled up they can round any arch with 3 of their 6 stam. I think that they need to lose 1 or 2 stamina or maybe not be able to be casted on for some reason(enhance/RF)because they are just way to powerful against anything. Spose thats all i got for now....PeAcE |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Mephistroth on 11/25/03 at 22:23:45 I pretty much agree with everything thats been said. My main problem is this: Zerkers attacks do far too much damage. When spelled up (and by now almost every player has a decent cleric) they can do enough damage to round any class, no matter what hp/level they are at. Take fighters for example, if you fully spell one of them up they will still find it hard to round someone, and their melee damage is lower than a berserker (even though fighters are supposed to be masters at melee combat) not to mention their attacks being dodge/armour absorbed much more often than a crazy berserker who, to be perfectly honest, doesnt really have any idea what hes doing. I think someone mentioned somewhere that Berserk is too powerful because armour never kicks in. When attacking with other classes, the armour can sometimes block/absorb some of the blow. Doesn't happen with berserk. Lowering the damage should be enough to make them balanced, but adding in armour absorb when attacking might also help. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by CPG on 11/26/03 at 00:39:58 Agreed, Berserkers are ridiculously powerful. I think they should be kept as they are and made extremely hard to train, kind of like Mages, or be weakened. I like #2 better. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Sausage on 11/26/03 at 01:29:13 I think 5 stamina is in need. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Bean on 11/27/03 at 19:59:10 /cough Not meaning to be rude or anything, but leave zerkers as is, and make other classes stronger... Making classes weaker is NOT the answer. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Stotic on 11/27/03 at 21:55:56 If you keep making every class stronger then you will find your battles to be shorter. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Bean on 11/28/03 at 02:00:31 I didnt say every class though. I just dont see anything overpowering TRAINING-wise for these crits, besides the fact they are a tad easier than most other classes. So if everyone thinks all the other classes cant level as well or cant pk as well, make THOSE classes better. And really... I honestly think that the only way to balance is to unbalance... for example, a lvl 30 mage should be a force to reckon with... but they should be the hardest by far to train. Eck, I dunno if im getting through |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Silex on 12/01/03 at 04:30:32 on 11/28/03 at 02:00:31, Bean wrote:
If you think zerkers are hard to lvl you are a d**n fool, and they are far too strong, it is dumb how some one can walk around (this is Ryan folks, limit) with a cleric and 4-5 arch zerkers with full spells walking into a square knowing you can kill any crit with 1 round from 1 of your zerkers...it is just dumb. They arent difficult to train...although i have been far too lazy to train mine past 21..especially since they get 5 stam at 21 and mine walk around taking out parties at lvl 21 more easily than any set of any other class i've used. Over-powered, take away atleast 1 stam from them, keep hp, damage dealt from attacking, and no armor, it is what makes the class cool and original. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Bean on 12/01/03 at 05:03:52 Re-read my post, I didnt say they are hard to level... I said they arent OVER POWERED TRAINING WISE. Sure lower their pking abilities all you want... but that takes a secondary seat to the real reason these classes are around, to level, and play the game. Edit: Oh yeah if your gonna take away stamina, you have to up the hit percentage at least a couple percent. nothing huge, something like 2-5 percent. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Mephistroth on 12/01/03 at 08:19:02 No, you wouldn't. How strong a class is at level 30 should be based on how easy it is to level. Mages are hard to level, should be d**n good at level 30. Fighters aren't, shouldn't be as good. Same with zerkers. Easy to level, high amounts of hp, can round anything. Something in there is unbalanced. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Bean on 12/01/03 at 18:17:00 Ok I dont even know what your talking about now... Your arguing against things I havent said.... |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Snowy on 12/01/03 at 22:08:59 i agree mephistroth |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Bean on 12/02/03 at 02:13:41 I agree too, but Im confused as to what exactly I said to make him argue that point... |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Mephistroth on 12/02/03 at 10:16:02 lol sorry, my posts aren't often that clear. on 12/01/03 at 05:03:52, Bean wrote:
That bit was for the 'No, you wouldn't' then I just totally ignored it and went off to comment about how difficult classes should be to level :-/ Edit: Messed up quote :( |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Bean on 12/03/03 at 01:32:16 OH. I see, heh. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Aladdin on 12/23/03 at 19:26:28 Every class has its own Strong points and bad points. Theives can one click just about anything but no one complains about them being to powerful.... Berzerkers Are not too powerful. They are balanced with all the other classes. And i would think Staff would know If any class is Too powerful or not since they Made the classes to begin with. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Snowy on 01/21/04 at 21:09:13 thieves can 1 click anything but its doubtful that thing will die, zerkers are way overpowered, zerkers and pacis are classes i HATE. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Detheroc on 01/21/04 at 21:29:44 on 12/23/03 at 19:26:28, Aladdin wrote:
And you don't really know what you're talking about. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by xcelon on 02/02/04 at 12:34:50 on 12/01/03 at 22:08:59, Snowy wrote:
I agree with Snowy ;) |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by deathdealer on 02/02/04 at 21:25:44 I like zerkers fine just the way the are..it all seems to even out in the end with all the miss's and no armour |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Wanderer on 02/10/04 at 04:16:21 Alot of the talk of zerkers being overpowered consists of "when spelled". This has nothing to do with the class's strength/weakness. Move on to Clerics if you wish them to be included in the equasion. Zerkers "can" hit hard, but usually only hit 2-4 out of the 6 available stam. Other classes that complain about zerks hitting so hard obvioussly aren't looking at their own hits against the 0 armor zerk, which rarely miss by the way. As far as Smite goes, against a player, you will miss 80% of the time, wasting all stam, doing 0 dmg, and injuring yourself. If you want 1 click, armor bypassing abilities, go with a thief, who will hit 90% of the time, and has the high dex, and armor to stay alive if/when the opponent isn't rounded. Mages have invis for a reason.. come up on a zerk invis, beam macro'd, and you won't have a problem rounding the 14 wis (max) crit. use your armor spell in case of a fizzle, which hardly ever happens on high lvls, and there is no way the zerk is going to win. Smite, you say? See the above paragraph. What I know is from a half orc point of view, Dwarves may fare better in certain areas, but don't hit quite as hard and have less hp, still with the 0 armor that makes them useless without the aid from another class. If Zerks are so easy to train (again from the half orc's perspective), why are there less then a handfull of archs? And again, without the help from another class to heal the zerker after every 2-3 rounds when training, every one of you would vote to delete the zerker class. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Mip on 02/15/04 at 19:48:55 My level 30 elven Mage (7 21 19 18 20 14) was smoten by a level 20 Dwarf Berserker. Does that seem fair to you? |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by Silverwizard on 02/17/04 at 16:03:52 Well if it is a half orc zerker vrs a mage it is mainly just whoever hits first and with invis the mage has a pretty good chance. |
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Title: Re: Berserker Class Discussion Post by ice_cold on 02/18/04 at 19:23:25 noooooooo, trust me, you cant beam a zerker to death. i mean, are you seriously telling me that a beam is going to hit a zerker for 100 damage, without being resisted or fizzle? come on, you have got to be dreaming |
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