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        Individual Class Discussion >> Berserker Class Discussion >> Smite!
        
(Message started by: Eternyte on 03/31/03 at 14:16:46)
Title: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 03/31/03 at 14:16:46
Ok I realise that most people figure Zerk are overpowered. Until you actually duel one thats unspelled. Or actually own a high level one.
Myself I have a level 30 Zerk. So i'm sure that allows me to comment.

Firstly:
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 81 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 118 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 112 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 104 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 106 points of damage. Killing you.

Obviously he was spelled, but I hope you realise the point I was making. That was also after numerous round of getting me below 10 hp.

Then....
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed and caused 178 points of damage.

All these were from 6 stamina. I'm sure that if any other class missed the equivilant of 48 stamina there would be total uproar.

I am suggesting that Smite needs to hit a lot more often than that. Another suggestion named before (by Ste) could be.
Smite either does All or None. You could argue that it is then assassinate. As Ste's idea was first intended. However Smite I feel can not miss this much.
All or None being it either kills someone outright, or does no damage at all. This being the case Smite would need to take 50hp each attempt. Also to vary the ability from that of assassinate. It can only be casted from full stamina, unlike that of assassinate which can be casted from 1 - 5 stamina.

I see no reason this would unbalance the classes, but a reasonable % of success would have to be confirmed. I would say between 30% and 50% accurate would surfice.

Let me know what you think. Would rather have opinions from level 27+ Zerks. Not those who are level 20 and have been killed by a spelled up Zerk.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 03/31/03 at 16:50:30
I would have edited my previous post. However I want to leave it there for people to see.
I've thought about the All or None idea, and I now think it's very bad.
A level 20 Zerk could 1 click Arches left right and centre. Also a level 1 at the Crystal Giant, could get lucky and 1 click it.
Unless is can be coded somehow I now think it's a very bad idea.

You also could make it it so you cant attack monsters otherwise Beserk would be the only form of leveling excluding melee attacks.

So the alternative has to apply that the accuracy must be upped greatly.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Tender_Foot on 04/01/03 at 20:07:59

on 03/31/03 at 14:16:46, Eternyte wrote:
Ok I realise that most people figure Zerk are overpowered. Until you actually duel one thats unspelled. Or actually own a high level one.
Myself I have a level 30 Zerk. So i'm sure that allows me to comment.

Firstly:
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 81 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 118 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 112 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 104 points of damage.
Animosity rapidly fired at you from his Enchanted Bow for 106 points of damage. Killing you.

Obviously he was spelled, but I hope you realise the point I was making. That was also after numerous round of getting me below 10 hp.

Then....
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed.
You attempted to smite Animosity but failed and caused 178 points of damage.

All these were from 6 stamina. I'm sure that if any other class missed the equivilant of 48 stamina there would be total uproar.

I am suggesting that Smite needs to hit a lot more often than that. Another suggestion named before (by Ste) could be.
Smite either does All or None. You could argue that it is then assassinate. As Ste's idea was first intended. However Smite I feel can not miss this much.
All or None being it either kills someone outright, or does no damage at all. This being the case Smite would need to take 50hp each attempt. Also to vary the ability from that of assassinate. It can only be casted from full stamina, unlike that of assassinate which can be casted from 1 - 5 stamina.

I see no reason this would unbalance the classes, but a reasonable % of success would have to be confirmed. I would say between 30% and 50% accurate would surfice.

Let me know what you think. Would rather have opinions from level 27+ Zerks. Not those who are level 20 and have been killed by a spelled up Zerk.


i think its preety obvious that most zerkers cant hold a flame to anything with high dex. i have also posted, but it was a lvl 28 zerker against my arch fighter who had 19 dex. the zerker hit 20 times out of 24.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Defiant on 04/01/03 at 20:14:05
I think if Berserkers could wear Only Spiked Armor(As its a big piece so it could fit) That would balance them out, unsure, but its worth posting, i was bored at school and it popped in to my head....



When i get my level 30 berserker i will test it against my ranger.

Eternyte for Staff :P
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 04/01/03 at 22:50:39
No I dont think Zerks should have armor. For the main fact I couldnt bare Deval posting about it...lol.
Their hp more than enough covers their lack of armor. They can also get about 28 ac from a cleric spell.

Beserk is ok as it is. It missed a lot but hits hard. Smite seem very pointless indeed with a success rate that is very low.
My level 20 Zerk however seems to smite fairly often, surely this is backwards?

May I enquire Tender as to if your Zerk was spelled? because hitting that often I have yet to experience with my level 30 Zerk.

Also Rich i'm sure when your Zerk reaches a higher level you'd much rather it hurt people more often, than get hit for less....dont you agree?
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Tender_Foot on 04/02/03 at 03:47:58
ask momba ;)

i think the that its preety obvious that any crit with 18 dex, is going to have a hard time hitting something with 21_ dex (we all know most zerkers have 18 dex and most rangers have 22, and everyday more and more are getting 23)). i think you may wanna try smiting something with less dex, a mage, a fighter, something that usually tends not to be a halfling with a ton of dex mods

Edit: and zerkers with armor...lol
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 04/02/03 at 08:21:32
So what your saying is that 18 dex should never hit someone with 23 dex....Oooh brilliant balancing ideas there.
So that goes for fighters too, and thieves, oh and anyother non-dwarf crit that happens to have 18 dex or less.
Tender think about what your saying before you post please, it would save a lot of hassle.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Proteus on 04/02/03 at 08:51:56
Honestly do you think a Berserker would take the time to aim his blow precisely? Or would he swing as hard as he could trying to knock the guys head right off his shoulders?

Why make changes to balance a class that dont follow there behavior. There must be some way to fix it without destroying the whole point of the "berserker".
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 04/02/03 at 11:23:42
Yeah I agree. Lets put this into context of a mage. Imagine you casted Beam 48 times, and every single one was a resist or fizzle.
You'd say there was something wrong correct? I think that Smite should be more accurate, Smite isnt a furious attack. Well to a certain extent I guess it is, but thats why is does damage to yourself.
Berserks is the furious attack, thus doing more damage to yourself. I dont expect Smite to be 100% effective, but I feel its accuracy needs to be upped.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 04/02/03 at 13:06:53
well smite seems to work fine till like lvl 25 :d i did a mosh lvl 1-25 and i used my lvl 25 zerker. in that mosh i killed 11 ppl of which 7 were one clicks. i missed a total of 4 times and did 3 times just a little damage.

so it looks like smite is just an attack that works on lower lvl crits cuz i assume most ppl in the mosh were lower then lvl 25 ;D
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Matt on 04/03/03 at 00:10:42
Like he said.. Zerkers are not over powered whatsoever. They hit hard _when_ they hit. But they miss soo much they just plain suck with no armor. A human average stat killed my 30 zerker (who had the rune blade) 5/5 times in a duel.. Does that make any sense to anyone who considers them overpowered?? lol

Rangers own them even more.. Zerkers miss nearly every time when they are hypnoed. Unless you have a cleric spell them up they stink. They are not good at soloing.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Tender_Foot on 04/04/03 at 16:38:59

on 04/02/03 at 08:21:32, Eternyte wrote:
So what your saying is that 18 dex should never hit someone with 23 dex....Oooh brilliant balancing ideas there.
So that goes for fighters too, and thieves, oh and anyother non-dwarf crit that happens to have 18 dex or less.
Tender think about what your saying before you post please, it would save a lot of hassle.


did you even read my post? maybe you should read it again and think yourself
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Drizzt on 04/04/03 at 16:44:14
Eternyte seems to have a problem with reading what people say, he just twists your words so he can insult you.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 04/04/03 at 22:42:03
Tender firsly...I was not twisting your words. You said that maybe I should try smiting something else with lower dex. Well why the hell should I, even with 5 more dex I shouldnt miss 48 stamina worth.

Thats like telling a mage to beam someone with lower wis. Each crit should be able to stand on their own two feet. Even a level 20 could beat someone who missed 48 times, or dont you agree.

Until you have a level 30 zerk, I urge you too keep your mouth shut, and stop flying things around the forum or which you have little or no idea.

Alex as for twisting people's word, when was the last time I insulted you. If you want to be insulted I would be more than happy to oblige. Once again you dont have a level 30 zerk, so how can you possibly comment on something you have no idea about?

Just answer me that please?
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Mammon on 04/04/03 at 23:08:56
Well either way, he attempted to smite me when I was on 'Cucumber' who has 18 dex, and still only hit once out of many times he used it, so I agree smite is useless.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Proteus on 04/05/03 at 00:50:50
Well if its totally useless how about changing it.

Smite:
Hits 100% of the time. Does damage equal to the 75% of damage you have taken. Takes all your stamina. (Meaning 6/6, 5/5 ect..)

Example. Your at 200 HP out of 500. So you Smite, doing 75% of 300. Hitting for 225 damage and using all your stamina.


Alternative Idea

Smite:
Hits 75% of the time. Does damage equal to the amount of damage you have taken. Takes all stamina. (6/6, 5/5.. ect)

Example. Your at 200HP out of 500. So you would hit for 300 damage with a 75% chance of hitting. Needing max stamina.


Meaning it gets better as you level, because at low lvl you you would have less HP, making it less effective.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 04/05/03 at 01:05:13
I like both those ideas Archie. Seems alright to me.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Mammon on 04/05/03 at 01:57:44
Those ideas seem reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Zerlix on 04/05/03 at 04:51:06
i strongly disagree, it would be much harder to lvl them at low lvls because both abilities would just devastate them.  berserk hurts for 25 and at low lvls like when you start the crit, they have like 30 hp so they would be hurt so badly that just about anything could finish them off.  with the 75% blah blah blah however much damage taken, it would just be a huge decrease in hp for not very high hitting power
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Kazuya on 04/05/03 at 07:29:47
i just scroled through this and for that why dont u just make a new spell that has a lvl limit and it can be like a more accurate smite or something instead of having smite kill or not kill the person and would need all 6 stam to use this.   :-/
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 04/05/03 at 10:33:18
Zerlix - Zerks are already easy to train. Having looked over Archies idea, the only problem that could arrise is if your at full hp. Then you would Smite for zero. I think however it's a good idea, just needs a little modification.

Rob - I'm unsure of what your trying to explain here. It sounds like what smite is already. Can you break it down please, into a simpler version please?

Also do you mean that since it only uses 6 stam it's a lvl 27+ ability, or do you mean using full stamina whether it be 1-6. I do agree however it's done, Smite needs to be a lot more accurate than it is at present.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Proteus on 04/05/03 at 18:08:20

on 04/05/03 at 10:33:18, Eternyte wrote:
Having looked over Archies idea, the only problem that could arrise is if your at full hp. Then you would Smite for zero.


Thats the point.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Bean on 04/23/03 at 01:36:16
Up the accuracy of smite by at least 25%

It hits like 1/100 smites.

Berserk Also hits a TAD bit less than I would have expected. Out of 5 stamina I hit like.... once maybe twice if im lucky.

Just up smite by like 25% and zerk for possibly 5%
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Alicia on 04/23/03 at 10:58:47
The smite WAS useful... when zerkers first came out and you could hit for 5 each round instead of 1 with phists
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Hybrid on 04/24/03 at 01:13:52
Phists lmao!
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Spongebob22 on 09/24/03 at 01:36:16

on 04/05/03 at 00:50:50, Proteus wrote:
Well if its totally useless how about changing it.

Smite:
Hits 100% of the time. Does damage equal to the 75% of damage you have taken. Takes all your stamina. (Meaning 6/6, 5/5 ect..)

Example. Your at 200 HP out of 500. So you Smite, doing 75% of 300. Hitting for 225 damage and using all your stamina.


Alternative Idea

Smite:
Hits 75% of the time. Does damage equal to the amount of damage you have taken. Takes all stamina. (6/6, 5/5.. ect)

Example. Your at 200HP out of 500. So you would hit for 300 damage with a 75% chance of hitting. Needing max stamina.


Meaning it gets better as you level, because at low lvl you you would have less HP, making it less effective.



The problem with this is that if you are in a fight and you have taken 6 points of damage, you would only smite for 4 points of damage.

So lets say you have an Arch Zerk fighting a Arch Fighter, the fighter wiffs the blow causing only 30 points of damage, then you do your round of smite at 75% causing 25 points of damage. You would half to be almost dead to hit worth a damm.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Bean on 09/24/03 at 02:25:30
Which is why you would berserk until then....

Hence causing more damage to yourself and making smite cause more damage, as well as the fact that when they get their next round they will damage you even MORE making smite hit for even MORE
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Spongebob22 on 09/24/03 at 03:50:09
then you win the fight with 5 hp left and die on your way back to clan house/pub from poison lossing whatever you got from the battle.


Makes sense.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Bean on 09/24/03 at 04:00:55
Right, you go on thinking that....

Noob...lol
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Epic on 09/27/03 at 22:54:21
I havnt had a chance to see the highest smite on a person but..

You attempted to smite a Hedge Minion but failed and caused 559 points of damage.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Lavalamp And Seito on 10/06/03 at 11:10:45
Good idea too i rekon
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by ice_cold on 10/06/03 at 18:59:51

on 09/27/03 at 22:54:21, Epic wrote:
I havnt had a chance to see the highest smite on a person but..

You attempted to smite a Hedge Minion but failed and caused 559 points of damage.


smite needs to hit more often doesnt it  ::)
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Alicia on 10/06/03 at 23:58:11
1004 :)
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Eternyte on 10/07/03 at 06:55:10
Lol...I think for relative figures to be stated. It would be better to attack a standard monster. I would say a Demonic Soldier, because they have nice. The problem with this is that Dwarf get an attack bonus underground.

I am assuming you did the 1000+ in the Swamp with a Torch?
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Doublement on 10/26/03 at 07:04:54
.... think this topic is a perfect example of why you shouldn't use a crit that cannot use mods or armor to duel a dexed up halfling ranger...the point isnt that it shoudl never hit, but that it wouldnt hit that often.

kill or miss seems extremely dumb to me, sorry.

and uhh..a note...rancid (w/o enhance i know, and was suppose to be w/o any spells at all..which i believe) 1 clicked my arch dwarf cleric gaddy (w/o holy might on so he was on 18 dex, w/ 322hp i think)..csotw was on him..but honestly i could beat arch rangers w/ Gaddy at lvl 24 w/o having them round me...or very rarely...at begining of expert.


so ya...maybe if you take some stuff that isnt such awkward info..i mean..what you just showed was a spelled ranger (RF makes them hit more) and an unspelled zerker...thats not very fair info...i mean really, it isnt at all.

Smite misses quite a bit but using spells makes them hit more and maybe hitting less often is why smite takes less hp than berserk?
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by CPG on 10/26/03 at 19:29:26
Well, as far as not hitting enough, I think you guys are all on crack. Not regular crack either. It's like crack that's high on acid that's high on shrooms. Then to top it off, we say +3. They shouldn't even be hitting as much as they do now because they hit extremely hard. I would say they are a lot easier to level than Fighters and Thieves (not power training). Freaking level 22's can hit monsters for 300+ unspelled regularly. Level 22! You all should be happy they hit as much as they do :P
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Omniscient on 11/04/03 at 06:46:29
Ok I just read this post and I just thought I would respond... I have a lv 27 dwarf zerk, and lately i've been using him a lot fighting other players, whether it be pking or moshes or dueling someone in the clan house arena, and his smite so far in all the fights I've done misses less than half of the time, and does even better against monsters, so I haven't really seen a problem with smite.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Bean on 11/04/03 at 15:11:12
I dunno, but my zerker is like an impossibility or something... 48 stamina in a row berserking the other day he hit every time... I was drooling so much its not even funny
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Zaknafein on 11/04/03 at 15:36:18
Monster or player? Was he buffed?
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by PsychotikKnight on 12/04/03 at 23:21:13
I find the Zerks Smite fine as it is, sure it misses and it that case you dont use it :P I miss with it and I have a rather low level Human Zerk but I still do around 100+ dmg ( which for a level 15 isnt the worse possible ) and well I guess Zerks are seemed overpowered by ppl who lose against them but we could say that against every class ( except pacifist ) that kills you.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Mephistroth on 12/05/03 at 15:34:22
lol, I don't mean to sound rude but untill you've actually fought/used a high level zerker, you can't really know what there like. They are over powered, everyone knows that.. but that doesn't mean anything will be done about it.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Despair on 12/05/03 at 17:51:52
1 on 1 a Zerker gets wasted by most classes as they usually miss a ton and dont ever dodge . . . with spells they are over powered I'll admit that but what class isn't?

Edit: Hypno a zerker that doesn't have spells and its basically useless . . . the only class with a real disadvantage against a Zerker is a mage as they don't hit them any harder or more oftern than they hit any other class
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Mephistroth on 12/05/03 at 22:07:31
Zerkers: Can round anything, have most hp in game, highest stam in game (equal with fighters), easiest to level (not including pacifists) if you have a cleric you can kill almost anyone. They are over powered. Either PvP damage needs to be weakend, or training should be harder.
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Epic on 02/11/04 at 01:16:22
You attempted to smite an Atrium Monarch but failed and caused 623 points of damage.

Whammo
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by ElDiAbLo on 02/11/04 at 02:46:43

on 02/11/04 at 01:16:22, Epic wrote:
You attempted to smite an Atrium Monarch but failed and caused 623 points of damage.

Whammo



weak sauce  ;)
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by Xcelon on 02/13/04 at 21:27:56

on 02/11/04 at 02:46:43, ElDiAbLo wrote:
weak sauce  ;)

wtf?! I do 205 at most ! :o
Title: Re: Smite!
Post by ElDiAbLo on 02/13/04 at 22:25:17
GD, can you say S-A-R-C-A-S-M. Noobs.


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