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        Individual Class Discussion >> Mage Class Discussion >> What To Do With Mages!!!
        
(Message started by: Pazzer on 04/18/03 at 11:14:02)

Title: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Pazzer on 04/18/03 at 11:14:02

Mages need alot of help. There a good class but suck a bit when it comes to dueling. They may own some fighters but thiefs easily assassinate them rangers easily 1 round them and druids can do naff all. But if a Cleric can heal more then a mage can damage then white magic is stronger when white and black are sopposed to be the same.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Blast on 04/18/03 at 20:47:42

who said mages gotta use black magic? ::) I m not satanist ;D

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 04/19/03 at 11:23:14

mages just need a lil more hp then they are fine just get aop :D

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Eternyte on 04/19/03 at 18:23:54

Mages hp is fine. If they spells in the game were balanced out, and used on average the same mana it would be better.
More damage would be nice, or more spells with varying traits.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by KaZuL on 04/21/03 at 15:46:47

the extra hp wouldn't hurt, not like 50, but maybe an average of 20 or so more. AoP makes mages very hard to beat 1 on 1. If you think mages suck in dueling, go one on one with Solomon, or Proteus, or Velius, i bet they prove you wrong.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Belgarion on 04/21/03 at 17:13:52

Go against any class that is arch with items like theirs, and chances are you will be beat. Take an average mage, who doesnt have the money to buy AoP or other expensive items, and you will see they really need something to give 'em a little boost. And i personally think that their spells need a longer duration, for the amount of mana they cost they do not last anywhere near long enough (invis, armour spells, etc).

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 04/22/03 at 12:56:59

hmm i suggest a little more hp and make beam and the other attack spells use less mana. and maybe give them some better armor :D

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Belgarion on 04/22/03 at 13:59:02

on 04/22/03 at 12:56:59, wonderful_nightmare wrote:

hmm i suggest a little more hp and make beam and the other attack spells use less mana. and maybe give them some better armor :D

I think all those are great ideas. But not just the attack spells that use less mana, i think all spells should use less mana. Because at the moment protective spells (including haste) don't last any way near long enough for the mana used, so either lower the mana cost or up the duration.

Edit: I also think that they need some new spells, mages are supposed to be the masters of magic, the best. Yet they don't have the most spells of all the class's. Some people say that clerics are the "white" magic and mages the "black". So therefore fitting in with the whole "balance" ideal of nightmist they should have an equal amount of spells, however clerics get way more spells than mages and they heal for more than mages damage. Even if you disregard the "white" and "black" magic idea, mages should still be the main magic user.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Eternyte on 04/22/03 at 18:11:23

Solomon you mean John the crit you mean is Solidad.

Ok first Solidad has Devastate.

Velius has 4 rotw, Witches Hat, Witches Gloves, Int/Wis Ammy, Bracelets.

Proteus has 2 rotw, Inquisitors Ring, and Int/Wis Ammy, Bracelets.

All of the above would also have Aura of Protection, and Crystal Rings, Spider Gauntlets, and other Ammys.

Also every single one of these crits would be ripped to shreds by a Cleric and maybe even a Paladin. Just heal out of mana. A mage would use his whole inventory of mana and the healer would use about 4 crystals.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by newb on 04/22/03 at 21:58:32

There's this thing called stam tricking which mages take advantage of frequently in duels. 8-9 successful beams would decimate any cleric or pally.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Eternyte on 04/22/03 at 22:27:56

LOL...Stam Tricking. Does this only work when your attacking then?

I'm afraid anyone with half a brain cell would notice the timing, and would time their heals so 8 heals of 90-100 is fairly simple.

Anyway most clerics have 19/20 wis. A mage would only beam for about 50. 50*8 = 400dmg. 5 stamina healing for 100 = 500 hp healed. Therefore the cleric technically should have a stamina or 100hp spare.

Thats without mages fizzling, resisting, partial resists, etc. only thing clerics must worry about is fizzling, which happens very rarely.

Edited to be less abusive.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by newb on 04/22/03 at 23:17:29

If you do it right, they won't have time to heal unless their heal macro is being held down. Same way for most other classes.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Blinky on 04/23/03 at 05:10:49

clerics can be beatin by mages, this again is why i say strength is important in a mage, also take advantage of other spells that use less mana. Hitting a cleric with shock using 5mp, and them thinking a beam/devastate was coming casting aid/DR using 7+ mp, it helps in the long run.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Eternyte on 04/23/03 at 18:56:31

Either way it's only 7/8 mp. Plus mages have to carry pots, so that restricts their mana.
Shock would also fizzle more, and only do 20 damage. So in effect it would be 25mp of shock, to 8mp of healing for the same hp.

Mage spells need to be lowered greatly. Then hopefully devastate will be widely available. Then other newer spells introduced.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Blast on 04/25/03 at 18:25:50

all of these are great ideas just i think hp is ok

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Silverwizard on 04/29/03 at 20:59:54

Hp: We need a little
Armour: We need some REAL armour
Mana: A wee bit more would not hurt or mana cost lowered for attack spells
Spells: A few more
Spell Damage: Not changed
Then we will be good imho

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 04/29/03 at 21:03:17

i agree only instead of a wee bit more mana i just say reduce mana cost for spells. :D

and we don't need more spells :D

maybe we should get our second stamina at lvl 8 though.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Eternyte on 04/29/03 at 22:07:05

I disagree with mages getting stamina earlier, as I like the difficulty mages are to train. However I do think at level 30 they should reap more rewards.

I dont think they need higher hp, or higher mp either. Although like I have stated in previous posts I think mana costs for spells should be lowered greatly.

Recently I have been thinking about mages from a more realistic point of view. This being that they are very feeble, and get hurt by damage greatly. However are extreamly devastating and powerful magic users.

I've been contemplating that Aura of Protection be changed very slightly, i.e. it is no longer a personal armor spell for the mages. Maybe it should be changed into a party protection spells, creating a force field or a magical aura around the party. This would be like a mass invisibility without the huge pking advantage as the party would still be visible just protected.

Then the main armor spell (if any at all is kept) would be mana shroud. This would give everyone a decent advantage of beating a mage. By rounding it or by other means, due to their lack of endurance.

This I feel should only happen if spell costs are lowered, thus mages could carry more needed pots in duels.

Then I would like to see other spells from other posts being implemented.
Slow, Vamparic spell, Mana leech wepon, Haste (changed so mage regains full stamina), square damaging spell (like devastate pre-reset), the changed Aura of Protection, and the major boss drop of the current devastate.

You might argue that these spells would overpower mages, but with their decreased armor they would be more suspect to critical hits. However, if the class attacking messes up they will be destroyed.
These spells would also enable mages to have a go at taking on parties, most people feel they should be able to do so. However, with that chance comes the fear of the party killing the mage, once again due to lower armor, therefore more likely to die.

This would also add to mages being more tactical in winning duels, instead of casting haste and armor, then beaming and hoping for the best.
In the hands of a good magical tactician the mage would be powerful, in another hands it would be useless.

What do you think?

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Belgarion on 04/29/03 at 22:25:31

I personally think all that is brilliant, and exactly what i would like to see. It would give the mage disadvantages and advantages, so they wouldn't be overpowered like that, they would be powerful but weak, as they should be. And as you said, if they mess up, they are toast. I really hope staff reads this and takes heed and something like this happens, great ideas Eternyte ;D

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by Odin on 04/30/03 at 13:53:53

Eternyte you have some nice ideas, always coming up with something new... if only people would listen.

Title: Re: What To Do With Mages!!!
Post by KaZuL on 05/05/03 at 16:59:51

u are right in many ways eternyte, and ur defence that a mage would get worked by a cleric is applicable, but that woudl be like the most boring fight ever lol.