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Title: training Post by Prince_Damon on 01/27/03 at 15:10:21 Ok, maybe I am doing something wrong here, but what it looks like to me is that Mages are WAY too expensive to train. The way I see it, to level from say 20 to 30 would cost approximately 50 million gold, give or take a gold piece. My level 23 mage can go through 6000 gold worth of mana in 20-30 minuets when training and not even move the exp bar a sliver. This puts a serious damper on my desire to train him, because of the fact he gets no where, and besides that, training him cuts my profits almost in half. I'm not asking to make it easier to level mages, but would it hurt to lower the magic cost on the offensive spells at least? |
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Title: Re: training Post by the Dark Sun on 01/27/03 at 15:24:14 This may very well not be common knowledge, but in light of the cost of training magic users, several places (creatures) in the game drop mana/advanced mana crystals. Granted this will not solve such a problem, and would require the use of other charactrs, but it would help considerably if used efficiently. 2 places I can think of off the top of my head are the Scarlet Dagger Guild (mana crystals) and the Necromancer's Tower (adv. mana crystals). |
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Title: Re: training Post by Oblivion on 01/27/03 at 15:24:14 I think beam should be lowered because clerics have Divine that gives hp back way over what the amount beam does and it only costs like 9 according to what people say. By the way, When i trained Oblivion to 30, I used about 5-6 alts, filled with mana, and ran around the desert beaming and useing my other alts to hit. I always made a profit. Useually I made about 50-100k extra not counting how much it costs to refill back up on mana. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Oblivion on 01/27/03 at 15:35:01 And both those places are basically useless for High level mages.. And it was way easier leveling a mage's low levels somewhere else instead of sdg and necro's tower. For my very first mage which i only got to like 20 and sold, I leveled in the forest/desert/Mountain path.. (necro's tower wasn't there neither was rose garden and I made better xp elsewhere) Another Mage I had, which was around when RoseGarden was out I leveled her there, RH, demonics and desert, I got her at level 5 and leveled her to 28, the mage was Ziggy(perfect stats because of stat changes now) name is now Dark_lotus I believe. oblivion was my next mage, don't remember what level I got him, Sera leveled him a couple levels, and I leveled the hardest ones at Sarka, Desert, Rosegarden(hardly ever leveled here.) I kept hes xp at around 230-240 for the longest it was 240+ and i releveled evertime he got low at Desert. And I've had other mages, think the amount of mages I've used/level is around about 10 of them. Highest Amount of xp gain in a day was about 20+ at sparka(before xp changes) and I did about 30mill in the desert one day. Another ok place for low levels, is the stream. fight the frogs. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Prince_Damon on 01/27/03 at 18:58:18 Mages can't enter the necro tower area, and as mentioned above, the sdg has a lvl cap of 20 but thank you for trying to help. Imma go um.. kill some frogs. ;) |
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Title: Re: training Post by PopTart on 01/27/03 at 19:17:56 I'd advise taking some alts with your mage to the dessert and let him get great xp off the spiders. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Zylia on 01/27/03 at 23:40:44 One thing to say. Make use of the 100g pub heals. They are MUCH cheaper then stocking your crits with advanced mana crystals. There are a few locations in the game where you can easily reach a pub to do this. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Oblivion on 01/28/03 at 02:19:31 If your useing advanced mana crystals you should be in the desrt training and there is no pub to heal at in the desert.. Other wise if your close to town use regular mana crystals. Makes a porfit even with just the mage beaming. Secondly your fighting demonics Use mana, dont waste the time going back and healing.. to much time envolve, be faster and easier to get it done as fast as possible.. Slow makes it to annoying I would rather waste gold and level faster then leveling slow. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 01/28/03 at 15:35:17 I know where to find mana and my mage is allowed in neither place. Mages need less cost on their attack spells this has been up many times most classes do not need man to lvl clerics it is useful but they can act as fighters pretty well same with druids and pallys. The rest do not need mana (I have lvled all of these classes). Mages are very hard to level and are very very annoying to have to go back and buy crystals or pub heals every so often. That is my opinion. |
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Title: Re: training Post by medication on 02/01/03 at 05:36:30 I'm no mage (only have one at lv 20), but here are some numbers that you might find interesting: Frog: 57 exp/pod Water fairy: 67 exp/pod Orc: 60 exp/pod Now, obvious choice would be to go train on WFs but that is not the case. Why ? Let me explain: I could make max 37 dmg with blast on single WF, max 41 on Frog and max 46 on Orc (I used elf mage with xx 21 18 18 20 xx). Now that means that for max attack on each of those I would gain: -Frog: 2337 exp -WF: 2483 exp -Orc: 2760 exp So, as you can see orcs give slightly better exp than those other two...now, is that important....well, lets see: -ave hit on Frog: 39,43 ==> (40+41+38+40+39+37+41)/7 and rounded down (exp: 2241,57) -ave hit on WF: 36,00 (exp: 2415,96) -ave hit on Orc: 44,40 (exp: 2664,00) Which means: in order to level a mage from 20 to 21 you need to gain 3.8mil pts, so the times you cast Blast would be: -Blast on Frog: 1695 times (rounded down) -Blast on WF: 1573 times -Blast on Orc: 1426 times With Blast cost of 10mp/cast leveling from 20 to 21 comes to: -Leveling on Frogs: 16950 mana -Leveling on WFs: 15730 mana -Leveling on Orcs: 14260 mana NOTE: deduction of starting full mana is not needed beacuse I'm not taking fizzle rate in account and on ~1500 cast you will definetley have more than 25 fizzles which comes up to 250 wasted mana which is aprox what lv 20 mage has. Calculating money costs (usage of advanced mana for longer stay outside): -Leveling on Frogs: 170 adv manas ==> 34k gold -Leveling on WFs: 158 adv manas ==> 31,6k gold -Leveling on Orcs: 143 adv manas ==> 28,6k gold As it turns out leveling on orcs is best for your economy especially considering how gold drops on orcs is ~100 and you need to kill some 190 orcs to level from 20 to 21, which means that you get 19k back..sort of tax deductions. Must important thing is finding monster that generally gives you highest exp on every hit, and sticking to it. (gah, now back to my statistics-report...sigh...this was more fun...) |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 02/01/03 at 15:14:22 9.something k loss for lvl 20-21 and how much do fighters use?? I am thinking of about oh (insert cost of healing pots in your favorite area here and multiply that by the number of orcs minus 1000ish and then make this number negative and then add 19kish) now one your done that math question after we put you in Mensa we look at how little that is for the anount of xp you get. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Rollers on 02/15/03 at 18:50:31 hmm 50million gold is alot of money to lvl a mage from 20-30 say make pots cheaper lmao |
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Title: Re: training Post by Thenobleone on 02/16/03 at 03:03:54 yes mages are extreamily expencive. I got a lvl 22 mage and if I want to lvl in an arena it would be so anoying to run back and forth so often to the pub. Today I gained roughly 100k - 170k exp in about 10 - 15 min on my mage in the arilin arena and that took so long because I had to run to the bar all the time lol. And I had to go through around 3k gold doing that. It is the most cost efective way to train but training a mage in an arena is not the way to do it. Takes to long. Go to the Orc Caves. ;D |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 02/16/03 at 13:50:17 Y'no maybe I should try out the orc caves... for some reason they are a place I rarely go... |
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Title: Re: training Post by Saphyne on 02/17/03 at 15:15:17 There are other locations currently in the game that would be ideal for better training using a pub. Arena experience was halved awhile ago, and the gold there isn't enough to sustain a good pattern of training. So, training a mage in an arena isn't quite the best idea. Try scouting other pubs in the game and find locations to kill some monsters. Its much less costly then going to the orc caves with a full inventory of crystals. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Disgruntled Figurine on 02/17/03 at 19:59:20 Try the lost trail or up in Sarka, these are both places that have been suggested to me in the past and its not that hard to make enough gold to get more then a few heals at pub if you stick close to BT |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 02/18/03 at 15:20:37 The Pks are horrid in BT |
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Title: Re: training Post by King_Macros on 02/25/03 at 16:47:29 Do pk's really matter? I lvl my mages in barracks with my cleric and 2 fighters. you get more gold then spent in mana, healer gets 75 exp per point it heals and rest get 55 exp per point inflicted. i tend to make 80% of my gold there, other 20% goes back into mana. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Blade on 02/25/03 at 16:59:10 So you actually make 100% of your gold there. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 02/25/03 at 18:40:27 PKs kill your mage and he loses that valuable XP. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Tender_Foot on 02/28/03 at 04:26:39 mages also do good against Sentry Spiders....65 exp per point of damage, and they arent to hard to kill. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Alicia on 02/28/03 at 20:22:36 lol pk's are the curse of mages, u lose an hours training and invfulls of mana crystals |
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Title: Re: training Post by Hamster on 02/28/03 at 20:55:24 pks are the 'curse' of every class... |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 02/28/03 at 22:37:24 Pkers kill my mage 1x and I lose about an hour or so in xp and my crystals. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Tender_Foot on 03/07/03 at 09:10:43 * points to his last post Bring a mage, gain the 65 exp per point of damage, and stop crying about pk's. almost no one goes to Wuenn lair to kill spiders. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Blast on 03/07/03 at 21:16:06 trainin a mage is very hard, lol, all i have to say |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 03/10/03 at 15:29:05 * thanks Blast. * then goes back to where he stood before on life. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Sanctuared on 03/27/03 at 22:00:06 Mages need a big lower in mana used for Beam. I have about 370 mp, and that really doesn't cut it. I hate using multiple crits, but when you use mages, You have to. This shouldn't be, there needs to be a change. I don't like to be forced to bring 5-6 crits with my mage wherever he goes. Needs a lower on how much mana all spells use to tell you the truth. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Mip on 04/01/03 at 02:04:33 lol all you people complainging makes me sick! :P i trained my mage (two of 'em) to 23ish just on the spider tunnels...but seeing as how you need to use that "secret" exit that might not be a good idea. bears aren't bad since they dish out some good gold and some REALLY good xp since (black) bears really can't block magic. (if you go out there with a mage who can use blast and a full inventory of normal mana crystals, you tend to come back with enough gold for another full inventory plus 200 or so) i've also noticed that ogres and warthogs can't block magic all to well either (they can really hit hard though, so i don't advise low levels to go there)...but if all else fails, just pay someone to level it for you! |
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Title: Re: training Post by Sanctuared on 04/01/03 at 04:48:07 Those are all great suggestions... But before you say we are blowing the problem out of proportion, try leveling a mage to 28, or 29, or 30. It seems almost imposible, especially ifyoutry to do it on bears... So much gold is used on 1 trip to the desert, or RG, or barracks, or ANYWHERE advanced. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Blast on 04/04/03 at 07:18:15 i think also they get their 4th on too high lvl |
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Title: Re: training Post by Eternyte on 04/04/03 at 09:17:18 Mages stamina is fine. It makes them harder to train, thus making a lot tougher at level 30. In my opinion mages need a lower spells cost. With Beam costing 7mp, and Devastate when it arrives costing 10mp. Also I would like to see numerous new spells to be added. Perhaps a party protecting spell i.e. Sanctuary. A level 28 spell, Fireball...same damage as beam but in same fashion as rapid fire (would leave mage unable to move if he kills after 1 fireball, would also use the extra mana of 4 that were not needed. I think mages need to be able to take on large parties by themselves, you could ague that due to mages cost, and difficulty of training this should be present anyway, however as I have stated before Nightmist is not like other rpg's where mages are the dominant class. Also along with the taking on party theme, I think mages should be given a trial run with slow. Where the person casted on only gets 1 stamina regain for a short period of time. Can only be recasted after it were's off. When it does the person it's been casted on gets full stamina instantly. I would also like to see Aura of Protection upped greatly. As Druids can out spell a mage which is just plain obscene. I have many more ideas for mages, some I have already posted before. Things need to be done. Balance is one of the highly talked about topics within the realms, but it happens in the wrong way. If every class is balanced whats the point? In my opinion they should be balanced on the difficulty of training, and how much they cost to use. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Drizzt on 04/04/03 at 09:51:22 I don't quite see why fireball would be like rapid fire, maybe they should have the spell magic missile. MP Cost: 5 Damage: Each missile does 18 damage. You get this spell at level 5, and every 5 levels you get an extra missile. 1 at level 5, 2 at 10, 3 at 15, 4 at 20 and 5 at 25. Would be like rapid fire. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Eternyte on 04/04/03 at 11:04:14 Al - you just described exactly what I said, except I said about making it a level 28 ability. Although 18 dmg is totally pathetic, no one would use it. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Drizzt on 04/04/03 at 15:40:40 per missile, read what i say please. Edit: level 30, 5 stam, thats 18 x 5 = 90 damage, now how is that crap? they would have a chance to resist each one though, so they might get hit by 1-5 of them, but i thought that was a good risk for a rapid fire ability. Btw, im not rich. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Tender_Foot on 04/04/03 at 16:50:33 on 04/04/03 at 09:17:18, Eternyte wrote:
all i see from you are stupid ideas that make pk'ing easier. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Drizzt on 04/04/03 at 16:54:24 Thats exactly what I thought. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Eternyte on 04/04/03 at 22:51:57 ROFLMFAO....90 dmg at level 30 SUCKS!!! say an average Beam is 50. 50 * 5 = 250 go figure. Not even going to bother explaining myself to people who arent worth it or have any real importance. Good day! |
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Title: Re: training Post by Mammon on 04/04/03 at 23:19:47 Honestly for the difficulty of raising a mage and the cost, I see very few if any REAL advantages to being a mage, they have way too many variables against them. Fizzling, Partial resists, resists, counterspelling, so a mage has the lowest hp, is out armored by druids, spells don't hurt players enough, they do need some type of help. As far as Eternyte's post on mages, I actually agree with it, as I see mages being more powerful in pvp situations than most classes, at least when it comes to dishing out damage. I’d also like to see some new spells because being a master of magic, they sure don’t have that many spells, clerics have many more than mages do. Aura of protection should be improved if druids ac is going to be left alone, a druid being able to out mage a mage is idiotic, if aura won’t be improved then the mages armor spells should be able to stack just like a druids, or the druids armor spells shouldn’t stack because mages should with spells have a higher ac than something like the druid class, at least in my opinion. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Proteus on 04/05/03 at 01:25:37 If all mage spells mana costs are cut in half and there spells are made more reliable then it would fix there current rut. My main is a mage, yet in over a month I havnt even tried to go pking with him. All I use him for is to invis my alts and drag my covert thieves around like public transportation. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Mip on 04/05/03 at 04:13:52 on 04/01/03 at 04:48:07, Sanctuared wrote:
LOL I know it seems impossible to train to lvl 30 on bears alone but I did it ;D ...all it takes is a little faith Also, I completely agree with mages having more spells. Having to use shock for 15 levels is completely ludicrous. Stick in another spell in there around level 10 and that should tide over complainers for a bit. I would also really enjoy to see a spell like Wrath of the Gods given to mages (that is, a spell that can damage all monsters and non-party members) |
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Title: Re: training Post by Drizzt on 04/05/03 at 08:07:35 Thats for one stam you retard, I always thought you were stupid but not this stupid. I'll give an example of the spell at arch if it would help. 5 stam: As you raise your arms and complete the chanting, five magic missiles shoot out of your fingertips stricking the Demonic Soldier for 18, 16, 20, 15, 19 points of damage. As you raise your arms and complete the chanting, five magic missiles shoot out of your fingertips stricking the Demonic Soldier for 15, 19, 15, 18, 19 points of damage. As you raise your arms and complete the chanting, five magic missiles shoot out of your fingertips stricking the Demonic Soldier for 16, 18, 20, 18, 19 points of damage. As you raise your arms and complete the chanting, five magic missiles shoot out of your fingertips stricking the Demonic Soldier for 16, 18, 19, 18, 19 points of damage. As you raise your arms and complete the chanting, five magic missiles shoot out of your fingertips stricking the Demonic Soldier for 14, 20, 20, 18, 15 points of damage. I have a different idea of how it could work, this would also be an arch mage using 5 stam. As you raise your arms and complete the chanting, five magic missiles shoot out of your fingertips stricking the Demonic Soldier for 78, 76, 70, 75, 71 points of damage. This way might be better, as it wouldn't fill up the screen as much. Doing that amount of damage would be over powered, so there would be an increased chance of resisting. Also the mana cost would go up by 1 for every extra missile you get. Edit: Changed the word 'enemy' for 'Demonic Soldier' |
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Title: Re: training Post by Eternyte on 04/05/03 at 10:49:09 Explain to me what is different to that than rapid beam? Which is the first idea you said was a waste of time. on 04/04/03 at 09:51:22, Drizzt wrote:
What you explained there in simple forms is that you get 1 missile every stamina you get. Which is the same as saying you get 1 shock every stamina you get. Before you accuse someone to being stupid read what you have said yourself. You also seemed to have changed your mind then to this - "Each stamina you gain 5 missiles. Until at level 29 when mages achieve 5 stamina you have the choice of using 25 missiles, this would however would flood the screen so I suggest merging all the 5 missiles into 1 hit per stamina" This would mean that all stamina wouldnt be rapid. However the singular stam of 5 missiles would. However you said yourself that it would flood to screen to make it appear as 1 hit. Which would be exactly as beam is already. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Drizzt on 04/05/03 at 11:20:14 I never said rapid beam was a waste of time, I never even said rapid fireball was a waste of time, which is actually what you suggested. I just didn't see how a fireball would be rapid fire, so I suggested something that would be. Even after I changed it its still rapid fire, as it uses all your stam in one click. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Eternyte on 04/05/03 at 11:45:13 If you read my post you'd see that Fireball isnt Rapid Beam. I used used Rapid Beam as an example, but re-named the spell fireball. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Phobia on 04/11/03 at 09:18:17 on 04/04/03 at 09:51:22, Drizzt wrote:
It seems that we've been playing deity. You could have atleast changed the name. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Rampage on 04/11/03 at 11:51:20 poptart.. why would I need to change the name? Loads of games use the name magic missile, Deity did not make it up, D & D did, so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't make comments like that without knowing all the details first. |
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Title: Re: training Post by Silverwizard on 04/29/03 at 21:12:20 That is close to the DnD missle and I like it |
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