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        Nightmist - Improving the game >> Suggestions >> Invisible Pacifist?
        
(Message started by: Momba on 10/21/03 at 00:39:46)
Title: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Momba on 10/21/03 at 00:39:46
Some n00b came up with the bright idea of invising a paci with JZ up. If you can`t see the problem with this then please don`t post.

"My"  ;) suggestion is simple. Pacifist should not be able to Invis.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Zephie on 10/21/03 at 00:41:48
i completely agree.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Consumed on 10/21/03 at 00:42:57
i agree...havnt had the prob yet tho
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Aurora on 10/21/03 at 00:43:33
Yah.. its pretty Pathetic  ;)
just like the person uncovert waiting for people to hit him  :D

and oh yah I also agree  :-*
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Alterno on 10/21/03 at 10:48:32
ok welll doesnt this bring a new twist to the game for pkers i pk n yes i have been killed by annoying paccys i remember trying to kill sum 1 n a paccy kept putting subdue on me ne ways all i m saying is tht there should be a way of knowing when JZ is up JUST AS N EXAMPLE /examine or sumthing but banning invis jus makes it easier for us pkers.....its jus a thought.......now u guys can START THE BASHING
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Nocturnal on 10/21/03 at 11:07:30
Actually Alterno, I agree.

There should be some way of telling when Justice Zone is up. A Message appearing every 5 seconds like, "A Aura of Justice surrounds the area".

But why shouldn't they be allowed to have Invisibility cast on them? Just sounds like some people who are now finding PKing hard want it made easier for them by limiting the only class that can prevent this, weaker.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Drac on 10/21/03 at 11:37:17
this only adds another variable to the game. There is no logical reason a pacifist shouldnt be able to go invisible. Asking to take this away is like asking to take away depth from the game. If u want something easy to do with no tricks or variables to intervene.. uh.. go play pong or something else with only one level of play.. sheesh..
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Spekkio on 10/21/03 at 15:07:52
I'm so sorry my pacifist made you soooo mad....

I thought it was the greatest idea I came up with!  Just because you couldn't pk my friends mage, you wanna get mad. LOL!!
I couldn't stop laughing when you attacked TWICE!!!
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Despair on 10/21/03 at 18:17:06
I personally don't see the problem . . . although it can be annoying to go to attack someone and end up half dead . . . its not much different that someone assassinating you out of covert . . . you dont see that coming either
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Tadpole on 10/21/03 at 20:00:07
Pacifists are suppose to be a solo class therefore they shouldnt be able to have other classes spells working on them.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Rappy_Ninja on 10/21/03 at 23:50:22
amen
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Typical on 10/22/03 at 01:37:53
Can I get an AMEN? Preach it brotha froggy!  :-*
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Login on 10/22/03 at 01:43:54

on 10/21/03 at 20:00:07, Tadpole wrote:
Pacifists are suppose to be a solo class therefore they shouldnt be able to have other classes spells working on them.

so why give them justice zone to protect players if there a solo class you cant help people utilizing this and using it to there advantage i mean stop trying to kill everything you see then there wont be a problem

thats just like take JZ away from them then means there wont even be the problem again where through your own fault you suicide one of your crits it happens deal with it


Note: Not directed to Tadpole just he put a point that i replyed on with a valid reason
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Pandilex on 10/22/03 at 02:45:18
Seems fine by me, don't pk if you don't wanna risk getting hurt!

Congratulations on thinking up such a cunning ploy! Teach people to prey on the weak! hah!
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Zephie on 10/22/03 at 03:13:24
The weak? 7 arch thieves and a pacifist I hardly consider weak. Like I told you on AIM, when they're using the pacifist as a PKING tool rather than an aider then there's a serious problem.


Why not do as previously mentioned by someone else and have some sort of message once you enter the square stating that JZ is up?
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Login on 10/22/03 at 03:19:30

on 10/22/03 at 03:13:24, Zephie wrote:
Why not do as previously mentioned by someone else and have some sort of message once you enter the square stating that JZ is up?


cause it would take the fun out of watching you all pk yourselfs? LOL
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Bean on 10/22/03 at 03:22:44
I've never clicked a paci... dont know why you guys have this huge problem.

And if your being baited into a square, and you walk on and they either, dont attack or they dont run you HAVE to figure somethings going on.... dont you? Please tell me you people that log on like 4-5 alts at a time can think that fast... IF you cant, try logging off one alt so you dont... I dunno click yourself so much...
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by dognapot on 10/22/03 at 03:22:51

on 10/21/03 at 00:39:46, Momba wrote:
Some n00b came up with the bright idea of invising a paci with JZ up. If you can`t see the problem with this then please don`t post.

"My"  ;) suggestion is simple. Pacifist should not be able to Invis.


my suggestion is to allow pacifists to only interaction (spells) with other pacifists. that means no spells on pacifists or coming from pacifists.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Bean on 10/22/03 at 03:24:05
Make em even more solo eh? Sounds like fun... Well acctually it doesnt but oh well.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by CPG on 10/22/03 at 03:35:48

on 10/21/03 at 11:37:17, Drac wrote:
There is no logical reason a pacifist shouldnt be able to go invisible.


The majority of the game isn't logical as it is based in a fantasy setting.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Zylia on 10/22/03 at 03:44:26
::)

Go invisible paci go! W00t! I think its a good tactic... people wanna jump people on 7-8 thieves (which is a cheesy tactic if you ask me anyways...), maybe they should learn its not always 100% fool proof? Theres a lot of people who deserve to click themselves yanno?  ;D
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Doublement on 10/22/03 at 03:59:07
I hear so many times "the game isn't made just to suit you" and yet when (and it seems obvious to me what happend) TR ends up SGH attacking and having a paci invis there ending up hurting them and they complain...it doesnt mean the game needs to be changed to suit you...if the game were changed to suit a lot of people they'd make grasping vines leave us the **** alone so we can go to windia and arilin though the forest.  Honestly though, everyone used to pregnant dog about the hit and runs, now it is all that ANYONE does, pacifists are obviously making it a tad difficult...good.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Login on 10/22/03 at 05:37:02
FuFu attacked Felicity with her Assassinate. But Equilibrium's deity intervened.FuFu fell to the floor, her injuries getting the better of her.


had to put in the assassinate because of the d**n thing where it dont show

but as a few ppl know its quite easy when JZ is up
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by dognapot on 10/22/03 at 06:27:34

on 10/22/03 at 03:44:26, Zylia wrote:
::)

Go invisible paci go! W00t! I think its a good tactic... people wanna jump people on 7-8 thieves (which is a cheesy tactic if you ask me anyways...), maybe they should learn its not always 100% fool proof? Theres a lot of people who deserve to click themselves yanno?  ;D


i think it's a crappy tactic. pacifists are pacifists and shouldn't aid pking by proxy or any other form, for the simple reason that they are pacifists. now it's not a new thing that pacifists are used to help pking, or just muddle up other people's fights, but a pacifist, by nature, chooses to abstain, and that's always been one thing that annoyed the crap out of me. maybe we should just change the class' name from 'pacifist' to 'guy who can't hit stuff' because that's all they really are, and there's no point in calling them something that they have never been.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Melfice on 10/22/03 at 08:16:49
fantasy or not, if a mage cast invis on anyone logically and in fantasy the spell would work.  I don't see that this is a problem with the game.  I think things like this add more depth to playing.   :D
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Zaknafein on 10/22/03 at 08:44:26
Yeah. I see no problems at all with this, just means you have to be more careful :)
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by ice_cold on 10/22/03 at 09:08:25
personally, all ive seen them used for recently is pk'ing. its pretty pathetic that people consider an invisible pacifist with justice zone up a tactic, it isnt a tactic, its just plainly rediculous. i dont go around pk'ing, so obviously this wouldnt effect me, but i can see where people are coming from
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Zephie on 10/22/03 at 13:21:24

on 10/22/03 at 05:37:02, Login wrote:
FuFu attacked Felicity with her Assassinate. But Equilibrium's deity intervened.FuFu fell to the floor, her injuries getting the better of her.


had to put in the assassinate because of the d**n thing where it dont show

but as a few ppl know its quite easy when JZ is up



that paci wasn't invisi therefore it's fair game, i knew it was there and it's my fault for not thinking jz is up
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Pandilex on 10/22/03 at 13:51:23
To be honest the problem does not lie with the invisbility itself, because several months ago I submitted some alterations to JLH that would fix many pacifist problems and complaints. Sadly we are yet to see them.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Spekkio on 10/22/03 at 20:42:38

on 10/22/03 at 06:27:34, dognapot wrote:
i think it's a crappy tactic. pacifists are pacifists and shouldn't aid pking by proxy or any other form, for the simple reason that they are pacifists. now it's not a new thing that pacifists are used to help pking, or just muddle up other people's fights, but a pacifist, by nature, chooses to abstain, and that's always been one thing that annoyed the crap out of me. maybe we should just change the class' name from 'pacifist' to 'guy who can't hit stuff' because that's all they really are, and there's no point in calling them something that they have never been.


Pacifist don't hit!  "They have chosen to abstain" doesn't mean they cant hide from the world and let "evil" (pkers) kill themselves!!! ::)
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by dognapot on 10/23/03 at 06:16:32

on 10/22/03 at 20:42:38, Spekkio wrote:
Pacifist don't hit!  "They have chosen to abstain" doesn't mean they cant hide from the world and let "evil" (pkers) kill themselves!!! ::)


it's really quite the opposite of abstaining from violence. you sound like you're blaming the trap and ignoring the idea of a trapper. i know every trap i've set in game had always concluded with me saying "suckers", and i doubt any pacifist is setting up justice zone and getting invis'd, and then saying "woops". it's done to kill people, that's not being a pacifist. douchebag.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by EternalAngel on 10/23/03 at 14:11:48
oh but that's just it .. it is being a pacifist because it's sitting there. The people laying the trap cast the invisible. They are jsut there. As gaddy put it best. Aww poor things got rounded by on a trap that I'm sure they themselves have used. Or they didn't think of it and are whining that they got hit with it because they were to "busy" to think of it themselves.


Quote:
Posted by: Pandilex Posted on: 10/22/03 at 02:45:18
Seems fine by me, don't pk if you don't wanna risk getting hurt!  

Congratulations on thinking up such a cunning ploy! Teach people to prey on the weak! hah


Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Zephie on 10/23/03 at 15:31:43

on 10/23/03 at 06:16:32, dognapot wrote:
it's really quite the opposite of abstaining from violence. you sound like you're blaming the trap and ignoring the idea of a trapper. i know every trap i've set in game had always concluded with me saying "suckers", and i doubt any pacifist is setting up justice zone and getting invis'd, and then saying "woops". it's done to kill people, that's not being a pacifist. douchebag.


exactly.........
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Alicia on 10/23/03 at 15:39:33
The pacifist isnt 'just sat there'. The pacifist was logged on with the sole purpose of teaming up to kill people

Now since pacis are not supposed to be a team class and are not supposed to kill people,  is that your definition of pacifist?
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by dognapot on 10/23/03 at 18:43:55

on 10/23/03 at 14:11:48, EternalAngel wrote:
oh but that's just it .. it is being a pacifist because it's sitting there. The people laying the trap cast the invisible. They are jsut there. As gaddy put it best. Aww poor things got rounded by on a trap that I'm sure they themselves have used. Or they didn't think of it and are whining that they got hit with it because they were to "busy" to think of it themselves.


the pacifist isn't sitting there, i know it's a complex thing; understanding how actions affect other people, but casting JZ isn't sitting there, and getting invis'd isn't taking a pacifistic stance. casting JZ in the first place is anti-thetical to being a pacifist as it is taking an active position in other people killing eachother, and cooperating with others here (getting invis'd) only compounds the issue because the cooperation is only inspired by the goal of killing people.

if someone lured you into a wood-chipper and turned it on you'd say to st. peter, "hey, don't give the wood-chipper guy any problems when he comes in. i saw him the whole time; he just sat there."
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by G Man on 10/23/03 at 19:10:46

on 10/23/03 at 18:43:55, dognapot wrote:
if someone lured you into a wood-chipper and turned it on you'd say to st. peter, "hey, don't give the wood-chipper guy any problems when he comes in. i saw him the whole time; he just sat there."


But what if you were trying to kill the guy with the woodchipper, but he was prepared better than you were?
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by dognapot on 10/23/03 at 20:12:37
but for the sake of the allegory, we know what each object represents.

the guy with the woodchipper represents the pacifist with JZ, and the dead person represents the victim of the trap (or eternalangel because i was mocking her opinion). so it's irrelevant for the sake of the allegory whether the wood-chipper guy was better prepared because the wood-chipper guy is representing a pacifist who is immune to attacks. by just existing, he is better prepared.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Pandilex on 10/23/03 at 20:22:44

on 10/23/03 at 20:12:37, dognapot wrote:
but for the sake of the allegory, we know what each object represents.

the guy with the woodchipper represents the pacifist with JZ, and the dead person represents the victim of the trap (or eternalangel because i was mocking her opinion). so it's irrelevant for the sake of the allegory whether the wood-chipper guy was better prepared because the wood-chipper guy is representing a pacifist who is immune to attacks. by just existing, he is better prepared.


But the only way you die is if you switch on and throw yourself into the woodchipper (attack, and then die).

If you don't attack, then you don't die. Very simple. If you want to kill players you'll have to live with it, but the problem will be toned down like I say when pacifists are updated.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by dognapot on 10/23/03 at 21:05:35
but pandilex, you see that this situation, and justice zone itself is doesn't fall in line at all with any notion of pacifism. pacifism is defined by a will to solve disputes without violence, and not participate in violence. since pacifists were introduced they've been mucking about in other peoples violent affairs and even escalating violence. they need to be more than toned down.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by CPG on 10/23/03 at 21:35:40
I fully agree with what dognapot has said.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Shane on 10/23/03 at 22:55:28
If invis can be cast upon a paci then why not just let them join parties or let everyone log on alts with a paci... ? ::)
I agree that it is a good tactic for pking, but its kinda retarded in a way. The pacifist class was created for what reason? I know this was not it.
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Alterno on 10/24/03 at 08:32:05
ohhh God as i said there should be a way to know tht JZ is up but dont take away nething tht pacis can do now if sum 1 uses a Mage to invis a paci so be it they are bunch of
D!CKW@DS but its tactics cheap tactics but still tactics pkers have to careful frm now on i say YES to letting ppl know when JZ is up but i say NO to removing nething frm paccys like the ability to go invis....i know most of u guys hate paccys cause a bunch of D!CKHEADS use then most of the time thts all for now
Title: Re: Invisible Pacifist?
Post by Lich on 10/26/03 at 21:19:20
I read this whole thing and all i can think is.... Ohhh lets see You were out pking that is to take someone crits exp with out their consent to begin with.

Then lo and behold you lost some yourelf. because Noob or not you died in a trap that is legal.. So now you cry because you got killed instead of killing someone else.. Get over it.
and stop trying to take away the abilty that others have.

That or make it so why in covert a thief canīt party... OHHHH god dont do that because then the game would be fair again.


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