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        Nightmist - Improving the game >> Suggestions >> stuff must go!
        
(Message started by: dognapot on 10/03/03 at 05:46:42)

Title: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/03/03 at 05:46:42

too much of it around. the game can't exactly evolve if all it does is grow in size. if the game can't discard with some of the old while still adding some of the new, then it will become old to those who aren't new. now enough of my tao te nightmist.

i suggest giving the casinos a serious tweaking. high stakes games, maybe getting around to the java games as was mentioned in the way back times. poker, roulette, black-jack, craps, etc. all 'sky's the limit' betting, and even playing against other players.

i've said it before, i'll say it again, "die already." get dead people. there's seriously too many of us around, and very few people ever delete anything other than torches. any way you want it, that's way we need it, you can have multiple lives, one life, as long you ultimately have a finite amount of life.

another thing: non-magical items break. i figure if you have 20 or more strength and hit normally (not using a skill) you should face a chance of breaking either the weapon you're swinging or the armor you hit. there should be some set variables so it isn't just random. so if you hit as high as your strength+base damage allows and your opponent deflects, there should be the rare chance that the weaker object should break. what's strongest and what's weakest should be determined by a preset statistic, but common sense should make it fair enough.

blah. well that's all i can think of right now. any other ideas for getting rid of our stuff in fun ways is welcomed. it's not really a matter getting rid of stuff as much as it's about countering the qualities that make this game dull after after X amount of time and work (i.e. infinite money resources, eternal life, in a game that never ends).

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by -Gaddy- on 10/03/03 at 06:32:16

The gambling thing would be cool...i dun want my crits to die forever though, thats no fun.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/03/03 at 08:14:15

but tell me you wouldn't enjoy putting someone down. that's the other side of the coin, and that's the fun of it. no one wants to die but no one really lives in nightmist. they simply exist. you get sent to tavern now and then, but no biggie, one half-hour later you're back where you were with more money to boot. woah, now that suX0rs!

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Outsider on 10/03/03 at 10:39:01

This just makes the ppl that already have the power more powerfull. They can pretty much own anything and new players will never have a chance to build something up to go against them.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Pandilex on 10/03/03 at 13:04:08

I've played a game where when you die, you lose an entire level! And it takes a long time to go up in level :)

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Dark_Jester on 10/03/03 at 19:27:33

Let's see.....

Legends of Kesmai
- when you died, you lost exp possibly a level, and some skill ranks. In order to get them back ,you go on a quest to the underworld and finish a task. When you finish the task, you regain a portion if not all of your exp and skill, before you can return to the real world.
-ALSO: When you die, EVERYTHING is removed from you. You have to race back to get your stuff.
-Banks had a capability of storing items. (suggestion for nightmist: Perhaps we can do a safe deposit box in a bank for a fee. If you don't have enough gold in hand or in bank, you cannot access the safe deposit box.)

Phantasia 4 (onlinejave type game)
-note: it has gone through many incarnations, buuuuut this is what I remember.
- swords and armor can be upgraded as it's a point system.
- When you die, YOU DIE. make a new char.

Final Fantasy Tactics (Playstation)
-Main character. IF he dies, game over. You have to load from a save game.

Utopia (Online War strategy game)
- You control a province, only time you die is when you have 0 acres, meaning someone has overrun your territory. (oops that game doesn't apply to this.)

Just some examples of death.

Dark_Jester

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Lich on 10/03/03 at 21:08:23

And if you add a save game feature to NM all that will do is before i go on a mission or anyone lese for that matter they would just save their game before going and in execess have it exactly as they have it now. So why mess with it at all.

Things breaking. why? so you have to spend money to replace them. I agree with outsider on this one it would do nothing but make the strong stronger and keep the weak in check.

I think this sounds like someone with power who is simply bored.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Ice_Cold on 10/03/03 at 21:20:44

1 problem with saving the game is...

alt attacked alt 2 killing alt 2
alt 2 dropped a halberd
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a spider gauntlets
alt 2 logged off
alt 2 logged on
alt attacked alt 2 killing alt 2
alt 2 dropped a halberd
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a crystal ring
alt 2 dropped a spider gauntlets

and so on...

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by JLH on 10/03/03 at 22:25:05

save games can't exist on multiplayer games with an online world

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/04/03 at 01:22:31

on 10/03/03 at 22:25:05, JLH wrote:

save games can't exist on multiplayer games with an online world

oh contraire, the pink elephant of online gaming, progressquest (http://www.progressquest.com) lets you save games. it also has a 3-D mode, wow.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bill on 10/04/03 at 11:31:00

I thought JLH was once gonna work on something involving durabillity for weapons etc. ?

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by JLH on 10/04/03 at 12:07:22

durability is planned

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Outsider on 10/04/03 at 12:36:14

on 10/04/03 at 12:07:22, JLH wrote:

durability is planned

lol that would suck, seeing your Cobalt break after a few swings.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Oracle on 10/04/03 at 12:45:11

Then you go fix it, or use an alt with a skill to fix it to do so.

I doubt you will lose your weapon once the durability reaches 0, you will just need to fix it before you can use it to do damage more than you can with your normal hands.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bill on 10/04/03 at 13:05:19

And i doubt a Cobalt would break after a few hits. :)

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Outsider on 10/04/03 at 14:57:40

on 10/04/03 at 12:45:11, Oracle wrote:

If thats the case, then why implent it, its just gonna be like hunger or thirst its just annoying. Won't make a real difference.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Vanilla on 10/04/03 at 15:18:04

I don't really think hunger and thirst is annoying. It's more hilarious than anything since I'm usually too lazy to go and get some food or drink and eventually I die.

The durability will be fun! I'm guessing there would be a shop to fix it? I can imagine all the complaining though of having to stop your training and going to get it fixed or taking the time to fix it yourself.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bean on 10/05/03 at 04:33:29

Outsider, you miss the point.

It puts more dimensions into the game, and it gives people more things to think about. People will forget, lose things, etc etc.

That is the point of putting it in... Give the game some flair, some life, rather than, clickX30million your level 30 congrats, now go click any other player you find, and kill anything in site.

Thats why I think we should get some in depth, NPC started quests going and such, and quests that involved, riddles, puzzles, and such. Not just, Kill this, and get a prize.

Should also get a skill system in...heheh

Now please, PLEASE, dont say 'Then make one' Because how do you know Im not? Lol... I may just be not finished at the moment :P

Anyhow, move along! Lol.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bishop on 10/08/03 at 18:50:35

Anyone that has been on the forum for any length of time knows I'm all for character mortality. There are a lot of ways it can be done, some even combined to provide for multiple possibilities for a cause of death (permenant). I think it would be good for nightmist for the reasons stated here (and several very old posts). One reason (I don't know if it's been mentioned) is that the fear of your character dying forces you to care about what's going on; where as now a great majority of players only half pay attention to their characters as they play. It's also quite a motivational tool (if I recall correctly from my Phantasia days).

Just my (old) 2-cents worth. Nice to see this prospect still being tossed about.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Drac on 10/08/03 at 20:10:39

if perma death is implemented there will never be any new archmasters and all the thieves in the game would gain increased value and the nightmist community would bow to the few who had a druid and 3+ thieves

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/09/03 at 01:41:17

drac, you'd be right if nightmist's players didn't adapt. right now there's no reason, other than laziness, to care for your crits all that much. like i said before, if you die you can gain your exp back in 30 minutes and make more money for it too. you're basically rewarded for dying.

if all of nightmist continued to play as if thier crits were still immortal after they become mortal then it might look as bad you portend, and if we do, then who is to blame? it'd be us, for being retarded when should be carefull. everyone says "i worked too hard to lose what i got" but to me that's almost like saying "i have no idea how to stay alive". has dying become so integral?

anyways, i've been pushing this crap for ages now, and will continue in various forms. nightmist needs more finite qualities if it's going to go on indefinitely.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bean on 10/09/03 at 04:16:16

Yeh people, listen to dog....

You all instantly lose faith in yourself as soon as you hear about 'mortal' characters...

MAYBE, just MAYBE This wouldnt be such a bad idea... MAYBE you wont lose everything you have because everyone will be so worried about their stuff to even THINK about killing your guys so you lose all your stuff....

Just a little faith in yourselves is all you need guys.... you give up before you even start...

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Shane on 10/09/03 at 07:09:15

Heres a suggestion thats been floating around in my head, how about making an arena (Like the challenge arena in NM City) where you can duel against another crit, but the catch to this is that the looser doesnt loose exp, but they loose their crit. If you die in this "Death Match Arena" then your dead for good. You wouldnt be able to remake a character with the crit that died name.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/09/03 at 12:25:02

you could make it but no one would use it. people aren't motivated to put themselves at risk.

i think staff could hold a mosh with a two bracelets of speed as a prize but pure irreversable death for every loser and person who leaves the mosh, and next to no one would take the risk.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Outsider on 10/09/03 at 15:10:18

If you think that stuff must go, delete your character.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/09/03 at 15:26:33

if it would explode in confetti then maybe i would.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Stigmata on 10/09/03 at 22:58:09

What it all boils down to in the end is that the people in control of the game don't actually play it themselves, so find it very hard to know what is best for it.

I'd love to see the word 'death' mean as much as it does irl to the players of nm.......and I certainly would love to see the change added to the game............

But the fact of the matter is that we are in the minority. You mentioned about the game becoming boring for the old players - which is obviously true - but there are hundreds of people that have just started on nightmist, and I can guarantee atleast 95% of them would disagree with this change.

I remember a while back when I had to persuade JLH into halving damage when a certain amount of exp is lost,
a change that seems logical now, but at the time had alot of people angered. Maybe with a few major changes to the way characters develop and interact then this idea could be implimented................but until then keep dreaming.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Outsider on 10/10/03 at 10:04:55

So how will a new player ever get to arch, if he will lose his character when he gets killed ones. This idea will just make the ppl that are already on top stronger, cuz they can keep everyone from getting to arch (unless ur lvling from 1 to 30 in an arena :-/)

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bishop on 10/10/03 at 15:11:28

You shouldn't limit this idea to 'if you die, you're dead', there are many, many possibilities;

Char. have a set # of lives per level
...set number of lives per segments of game time
Permenant death only applies to PvP, not monster deaths
Death via old age (game time limit/char)

This could also be cushioned by such things as Amulets of Life that would prevent one perm. death (destroying the Amulet), but allowing you to go get another.

There's no need to limit the discussion to 'you die once and have to start over' - even I don't like that proposition...

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/10/03 at 19:45:21

thanks. this is a workable solution, but i don't give too much concern to our newbs as they will be indistinguishable from oldbies in two months. they're better at the game then we think, and if things get tougher on them they'll adapt or find help, because the game is set up rather nicely to provide support via clans, parties, friends, etc. that's something we already have going for us. so i don't worry about the noobs.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Outsider on 10/10/03 at 19:46:41

on 10/10/03 at 19:45:21, dognapot wrote:

thanks. this is a workable solution, but i don't give too much concern to our newbs as they will be indistinguishable from oldbies in two months.

Not if you kill them and make them start over again (not saying in one kill)

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/10/03 at 22:36:19

if they can't learn, they're hopeless anyways. there are those kinds of people in nightmist. i met alot of them when i was noob and they're still around and they still need rides everywhere, and they'd probably suffer from dying but for chrissake they're really bad.

the rest of nightmist realizes that there are resources to help them. clans, maps, the help function, the website, the forum, making friends, putting them on thier friends list, nightmist is easy. hell, even if you all you want to know is the command list, nightmist is still easy as long you learn.

if you die somewhere, don't go back there immediately.

if you get killed, don't harrass your murderer to the point of them stalking you until you can't leave town.

if you're under attack, and you know you can't win, just leave.

if you're going to be far away from supplies or friends, make extra preparations, have a back-up plan in case you're attacked or run out of pots+mana.

use maps.

hell, there's alot more, but you can't expect everyone to waltz to lvl 30 without taking a few courses in the school of hard knocks. some people would need to retake some courses and alot of people will start in the remedial levels, but it's the point that here that it's been too easy too long. it's only natural that if the stakes raise then so does your game.

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by ice_cold on 10/10/03 at 22:42:20

on 10/10/03 at 22:36:19, dognapot wrote:

this whole idea, seems like it only benefits current arch's, i tried and tried to think how a low level would survive, but the ammount of higher level crits who pk now rediculously over power the lower level community. everywhere you go now, there's someone there waiting to pk you, and with this idea, i do beleive a lot of the community would leave the game. make an alt, or 2, or 4, act like your a newb, dont talk to any of your current friends, just go around and train, and see how much you get killed, i garuentee you'll rethink your idea out

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by Bishop on 10/10/03 at 22:52:28

That's not true at all - I don't have, never have had, an archmaster, and most, if not all, of my characters have few or no deaths-by-players (average char. level of 20). Even for those that choose to play more aggressive than I do, once you get to level 15 or 20 you should be going with a group anyway - you'd be surprised how many people leave you alone if they see 15 other characters with you (or suspect it). This is where clans come in.

Also, the death feature could be reserved for over lvl 20, or 25 (to allow players to build a power-base).

The suggestions are here to explore possibilities; if you don't think it'll work the way presented, can you think of an alternative way? No? Take some time to think about it...

Title: Re: stuff must go!
Post by dognapot on 10/11/03 at 01:35:10

don't forget that current arch's would be fun targets. they're part of the reason why this is neccessary. there's too many of them, and once they can kill eachother, get out of the way. an equilibrium would be met eventually but there's alot of fat to be trimmed.