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        Nightmist - Improving the game >> Suggestions >> account types (anti-theft measure)
        
(Message started by: dognapot on 06/15/03 at 00:36:56)

Title: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 06/15/03 at 00:36:56

i thought this might make having other people train a crit for you less risky. it might also make sharing less risky also. might as well just call them temporary or secured accounts.

this account type would be pretty much the same as the accounts we have now except a few extra features would be used.

1. time limit
when you create an account you must decide how long the account will exist. for example, if you are having someone do some work for you, you might want the account to expire after 30 days. after the account expires the crits in the account return to the account they were in before they were put there.

2. no transfering.
once a crit is transferred to this account type it cannot be transferred anywhere else. you have to just wait until the account expires to get your crit back into your primary account.

2. no rolling.
there's just no reason for it since any crit created would be deleted when the account expires.

3. you cannot change your password.
so it's best to make it something really simple. since the password is unchangable you cannot lose access to your crit.

i figure since it's impossible to stop people from sharing and paying other people to train crits it would be a good idea to minimize the ways you can be ripped off. this way no one can run off with a crit.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Old School Freaks on 06/15/03 at 01:09:23

I think this is an awesome idea. The time limit might not work, but I don`t see why the other suggestions can`t. Possibly add the option to create this account from a user account.
Another idea would be to allow transfers of crits from this account but making it so each user had to enter a password to verify the transfer. This would eliminate having to tie staff up with these types of transfers

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Jurian on 06/15/03 at 09:48:39

well it's a good idea but....... let's say i shared with someone and decided not to share with him/her/it no more but the time limit isn't due for the next 30 day's i then need to transfer my crits to my old account and i can't :(

so i suggest some option where you can "delete" the account and the crits in it are send to their old account.

the only problem there might be that if you shared for like 3 or more months you might ahve forgotten/lost the account name and pw of the old account. and it'll be rpetty hard then to convince staff that's your account (specially when your not a well known player that staff might know :D)

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Bill on 06/15/03 at 10:21:24

Now what stops the person who's crit is being trained from not paying? :-/

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Bobbity on 06/15/03 at 12:00:15

Nothing, but it stops the person stealing the crit.
Great idea. :D

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Jurian on 06/15/03 at 14:19:23

on 06/15/03 at 10:21:24, Bill wrote:

Now what stops the person who's crit is being trained from not paying? :-/

this is better then the current way :d now atleast you know someone gets his crit :D

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Ashton on 06/15/03 at 16:09:56

this leaves not recieving payment and possible theft of items from the crit itself as problems, but this is a good start :)

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 06/15/03 at 17:29:15

perhaps if the account was created through an existing account you could use your personal account's password to delete the secured account and then all the crits go back to thier place. the most important part of the idea remains that no one can take your crits.

i have no idea how it would work technically but it might be a good idea to be able to enter and create the secured account through your primary account.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Bean on 06/15/03 at 20:29:50

If this were put in by the staff im fairly certain they would punish anyone who stole items off of crits and such... wouldnt they?

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 06/16/03 at 05:27:11

everyone's got a different story about what's thiers and how they got it and how it's not actually stealing or how they were 'owed' this and that. so i'd wager staff involvement would be optional.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Alterno on 06/16/03 at 13:34:52

i suggested something like this but JLH said he does not like the idea of sharing so it will not be put in.....but it would be great if it was put in......

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 06/16/03 at 16:28:30

well that's the point of this actually, whether you like it or not people will never stop sharing and handing crits over to be trained. something like this would give people no excuses for losing crits.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/17/03 at 07:05:52

Staff always says "Staff does not support sharing accounts or having others train your crits."

which makes sense to me...dont share if you dont belive the person is completely trustable, and others training your crits you'd have to trust also.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Alterno on 06/17/03 at 17:22:43

thts just it the staff want no part of it if they don't support it then there is no way of implementing it.......I have to agree to the fact tht yes it does get a little unfair if we let others train our crits and then go round bossing others who have tried hard to get to where they are but it would help a lot if we could share and not be afraid of others stealing i had one stolen so i know how it feels........

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Tienno on 06/21/03 at 17:58:06

It is like everything else in the game not supported, you come up with your own ideas and hope and prey it doesnt go pear shaped.......i personally wouldnt share anyone with anyone as i like to think all the work in my account is my work......... all i would say is its your risk, i dont think staff would impliment it but you never know, i know they dont support it but they also dont like annoying memos from people who have had crits stolen, So maybe if it becomes a massive issue then it would be the lesser of the two evils to do something like what has been suggested, just my two cents on the matter 8)

xxxxxxxxx

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 06/21/03 at 18:58:54

i only suggest it because those inclined to share and hire crit trainers are going to do it anyways. if this were implemented it wouldn't entail any greater responsibility from the staff to the players but it would minimize possible losses for the players.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Dwaerkyn on 06/23/03 at 14:37:25

Maybe a 'level' counter too, so when the character is, say, level 20, the character gets returned to the former account.

Edit: Small wording change.

so when it's :to: so when the character is

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 01/09/04 at 07:51:36

i'm just bumbing this since sharing is vogue again.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Morph on 01/09/04 at 13:52:54

If there should be something done with accounts to stop theft JLH could make it so you have an option to make your account accesible by your IP only. It won't work for everyone, but in all the time i playd i never used a different comp...

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Oracle on 01/09/04 at 16:53:16

I for one use more than one comp as I live with my mom and dad in different houses during the week and they are both on dialup so you couldn't even add both those ip to the allow list. I'm afraid ip wouldn't do.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Morph on 01/09/04 at 17:10:37

on 01/09/04 at 16:53:16, Oracle wrote:

Not for everyone no, but for a lot it would, but apparently its all or nothing...

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 01/09/04 at 17:17:39

the ip thing is stupid. goodbye dialup users.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Spekkio on 01/09/04 at 17:34:47

This isn't a good idea as stated, staff doesn't incourage account sharing. This would be a lot of work to change one problem to another. If you don't trust the person, don't send them your stuff. Train your own crits, and the problem is eliminated.

Now, I'm not staff, but I still don't like account sharing. On the other hand I would like something like this made. I have an account with some crits that I want, but I'm not gonna use. I have dubed this a 'Clan' account. If any of my friends in my clan would like to access this account to play on those crits, they can. If the 'locked account' was made, then I could allow ALL clan members to access the account.

Overall, I actually like this idea, but I don't think it will happen (due to the responses given by JLH and other staff when account sharing is brought up).

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Morph on 01/09/04 at 20:42:52

on 01/09/04 at 17:17:39, dognapot wrote:

the ip thing is stupid. goodbye dialup users.

Actually you are stupid, i never said it has to be locked on 1 IP. But when you have the option then already half the players will have their stuff safe...you have to start somewhere....

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 01/10/04 at 03:05:31

lock it on one ip? let me reiterate: dial up users can't use that. they have a basically brand new ip every time they log on. then there are cable/dsl users, who have only one. which is great except for that if it's ever changed (they don't control thier ip) then they lose access to the account. so for both users, the 'enhancement' is either too secure to be used or insecure enough to be moot. besides, what would the point in limiting ip access to an account if more than one person was using it? unless we're meaning to more discriminating in who rips us off?

the idea i've outlined here is as secure as an account can be. which is saying alot. it can ensure that your crits can not possibly be stolen, and that's all done by the account. of course it doesn't secure anything else but that can also be achieved by locking items and whatnot for preset time-lengths.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by rebel_blaidd on 01/10/04 at 03:31:36

you could use computer serial numbers or add a user id to the nightmist character creation

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Lavalamp And Seito on 01/10/04 at 07:20:20

computer serial number wouldnt work, what happens if you format and use the coppied winxp cd? you get a random serial everytime.. and i for one am not going to actually BUY windows when i can get it for free.. i would also believe that there would be quite a few ppl here that use coppied software, and would screw them up too.. correct me if i misunderstood your post(i may have) or if i am wrong

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Id on 01/10/04 at 07:42:33

Quote:

Posted by: Morph Posted on: 01/09/04 at 20:42:52

Actually you are stupid, i never said it has to be locked on 1 IP. But when you have the option then already half the players will have their stuff safe...you have to start somewhere....

Let's not call people stupid. We all know how that gonna turn out.

Anyway...if you guys could think of all these ideas, and half of it is to help trainers...then why not just ask staff for an NPC trainer where you go there and buy exp...geezz...like say (lvl*2k for each 1% increasement in exp) -- Doubt staff will actually add them --

But for me, I think people should train their own crit. That's what playing games is all about. Always try your best, work hard...you might fail at first, but when you succeed, you'll be very happy and can truely proud to show off to yer friend with the powerful stuffs that you got.

That joyful feeling when you finally succeed is the ultimate price you can win...not some fancy and powerful imaginary character and items. (Don't you remember those moments when you start to play a game? Trying to pass that first level? You probably cursed too when you die...but the day came when you finally pass it...and jump up and down?)

It's all the same for playing a crit. It might be hard to train, but when you finally get it to arch, you became so attach to it that you might not wanna sell (unless you are just one greedy .......) ..oh well..just a thought.

ps Pwease don't flame me :D

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Lavalamp And Seito on 01/10/04 at 07:47:09

on 01/10/04 at 07:42:33, Id wrote:

ps Pwease don't flame me :D

lol ::)

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Cosworth on 01/10/04 at 18:43:13

on 01/10/04 at 03:05:31, dognapot wrote:

lock it on one ip? let me reiterate: dial up users can't use that. they have a basically brand new ip every time they log on. then there are cable/dsl users, who have only one.

dsl users are dial up also they have a dynamic ip i think for a static ip on dsl you have to pay extra for one

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Quarrel on 01/10/04 at 19:49:54

I dont See why this Cant happen. It good On all terms.. Your account cant get stolen cuase they cant transfer/delete crits on the Temp. account and it expires in 4 to 5 weeks. And you get all your stuff back. Soo I support it.

Great Idea.. Just need Some Staff Comments (Jlh and or pandilex) :) ;) :)

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Spekkio on 01/10/04 at 20:35:01

on 01/10/04 at 19:49:54, Quarrel wrote:

I dont See why this Cant happen.

Maybe you should read some of the post, because it has been clearly stated that there are several factors against it. Like items... what's to stop them from stealing your rose blade, sg's, and aoh? Staff could lock the items on the crits, or you can just take off your items and make them use there own items on the crits while they are using it.

Staff locking items: Takes a lot of time coding that can be spent on more important aspects of the game.

Take off your items: Would be a real pain in the booty to have to keep spare equipment to train somebody's crit, and theft can still occur if, for instance, you get disconnected in the middle of training. Another player that can access the account could simply log on and take the items.

All in all it still requires you to trust the users of the account/crits. Which is exactly what we do now... so the main reason this should not be impemented, is because it is not important to the degree that 'time' should be spent on it.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Oracle on 01/10/04 at 21:19:49

I don't think you will get JLH/Pandilex to comment.

If they did this and allowed sharing, people would still abuse it and just go and lose all of someone's exp for what ever reason or nick their gold/items and as staff would be supporting sharing it would mean we have to fix this for you? That couldn't happen.

There is one solution, don't give out your account password.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Hexagram on 01/10/04 at 21:45:50

That's not a solution, it's obvious that the message isn't gonna get through to people, or that they just value sharing/crit training over the risks.

As far as I see it there are 2 choices- continue to not support any kind of sharing and ignore all the complaints (which I don't blame anyone for), or add a system now to allow more than 1 person to safely use an account. Ignoring it and telling players not too isn't really the best idea imo.. it will just get worse and worse, it'll never go away.

If a good system is added now I think in the long-term it'll be easier for staff and alot better for the game. I think this specific idea isn't perfect but definitely has some good points to start from.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Oracle on 01/10/04 at 22:52:50

You are completely right hexagram but we have not thought of or seen suggested any way of doing it that doesn't have floors.

Until we can get it perfect, (which probably there is no way of doing) we wont even attempt it.

You see in this case, something isn't better than nothing. It makes it worse unless we can make it perfect.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by Quarrel on 01/10/04 at 23:01:13

Then items cant be taken or removed from the crit in the Temp account. Means While the Crits is in the Account. Nothing can be added and nothing can be removed until the the account expires. And the Crits back in its original account.
I know then you cant get the crits new equpitment and such but its a good way of not getting your crits/items/gold stolen.

Title: Re: account types (anti-theft measure)
Post by dognapot on 01/11/04 at 05:15:02

this isn't about solving a problem, guys. it's about minimizing the effects of stupidity on this game. sharing, and paid training are things that aren't going to go away. it allows a person to accomplish more than they could as one person, and for that reason people will always be swayed to pool efforts or pay a job being done. there is no possible way to keep everyone from screwing anyone, but there are things that can be done to minimize the ways people get screwed.

back when clans had multiple founders and no chairmen, sly people would barter thier way up harking on how they're trustworthy and 'don't you trust me' until they could steal the clan. if this were implemented people would still say that in order to convince people not to use a secured account, and they probably throw those arguements about even now. the point is, you can minimize a thief's ability to run away with an account. now, seeing that people constantly percieve the benefits outweighing the risks, why not? it's basically just damage control.