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Title: Races Post by Alicia on 03/16/03 at 14:06:52 Just been looking at the max stats for all the races... now i kno why people call some races crap. IMO all races should be useful in some way, and something should be done about it. First the useful classes: Elf: loses 2 points over human, gains 5. High int and wis mages them best as mages. Halfling: Loses 3 points to human and only gains 2, but dex is one of the most important stats in the game and 'ling is the only class with 21 dex Dwarf: High str and con with 1 down on dex, very popular for fighters, zerkers, and thieves Now the not so useful ones: Gnome: Beaten in stats by another race in all the classes it can be. 21 int is only good for mages and elves have that with higher wisdom. Maybe letting them become druids would help. HalfElf - The class I think should be improved most. Combines the weaknesses of the human (no outstanding stats) with the weaknesses of the elf (not very strong) Stats are similar to human but loses 1 str for 1 int (and +1 char, but char isnt the most sought out attrrib). Int is only useful for mages and, as gnomes, elves are better with higher int and higher wis. My suggestion for halfelf would be to give them 21 wis. This would make them the best class for clerics, and useful as other races, while not making them overpowered. As for humans and halforcs, humans are the 'average' class, and the so called attribute point system should help them out, while 'orcs are like dwarves but hit harder and less often, and are mage bait |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/16/03 at 16:31:10 there's nuthing wrong with gnomes. i've had 6 mages, 2 elf to start and they didnt seem to good, since ive made 4 gnomes and they all have done much better |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/16/03 at 16:36:36 Lol, elves beat gnomes in almost every way. Higher strength Same int Lower dext Same con Higher wis Higher char |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Zephie on 03/16/03 at 18:18:17 Gnomes get special class bonus, I believe they resist magic attacks better. but I agree with you about Half-Elves. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/16/03 at 18:44:00 on 03/16/03 at 16:36:36, Lyandor wrote:
dex is a very important stat, even if it just a little bit more, specially when you dont have 600k for an AoP |
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Title: Re: Races Post by ArchAngel on 03/16/03 at 19:30:17 I also agree with the half-elf. 21 int would make an easy way of making them an actual useful race. As for gnome, with the resisting of magical attacks along with the higher dex, I think it somewhat balances it out mage-wise with elves. I think though that if maybe the str was increased to be 18 such as elves it would help make them rightful competitors for the mage class. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Mammon on 03/16/03 at 19:49:07 Ah yes, half-elves in my opinion just a useless race, I believe they need some type of an improvement seeing as without it, there is almost no need for a half-elf. They are out done by other races, and need some tweaking, such as higher dexterity, or wisdom being part elf, meaning they are more wise or more limber than a human, which would make them a little more reasonable to use. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/16/03 at 20:49:48 Remember you need to explain why you choose such stats/changes for such races. For example, if Humans have (max) 19 wis and Elves have 20, why a mix of their blood would have 21? Gnomes cannot become druids (talking about most of the games I saw)... And Elves are much better druid (bonus in forests, more wis). 22 int and bonus for gnomes would be kinda decent and elves would get -1 int and +1 wis (example) After all max stats are 22 21 21 22 20 21... Elves would get 21 wis and gnomes 22 int. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by ArchAngel on 03/16/03 at 21:12:35 If this is true, it is hard for me to believe a halfling to be "sexy" with that 19 charisma. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/16/03 at 22:19:45 Small people also have the right to live ;D |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Creed on 03/16/03 at 22:24:51 My favorite race would have to be a human. Because their stats are balanced. Plus they can be any class. ;D But that's just me though.. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/16/03 at 22:33:03 My favorite race is Elf. Elves just rock. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by medication on 03/17/03 at 01:08:48 Shameless plug: http://81.99.152.130/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=Improvements;action=display;num=1040779746 3 months ago ;) |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Alicia on 03/17/03 at 01:44:01 Why improve elves? they already have 21 int and 21 char, giving them 21 wis would make gnomes even worse, and throw half elves deeper into the gutter. As for the person that said there should be an incharacter reason to give half elves 21 wis (apart from to make them more equal) how about... since they get to learn the lore of both the humans and the elves they naturally are the wisest of all the common races. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by drizzt_dourden on 03/17/03 at 13:26:55 actually, what would solve this lil prob with the 1/2 elves, would be to finally put those attribute points in. considering that 1/2 elves get them at 1/2 the price. ..... now get crackin busta! |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/17/03 at 14:28:49 Please... The point isn't that an half-elf learns both lores... Imagine you mix a class with 19 on a stat with a class with 21. Therefore, they would get 23? It has to be the right mix between them. If Gnomes had 22 int max, they would also have 20 dex, being the best mages. And elves would get 21 wis and 20/19 int, that way Half-Elves would get 20 wis. And that Half-Elf thing... that's not the way it works... It doesn't work that way in ANY Rpg, online or not... Sorry. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/18/03 at 10:09:05 i think half elves should be 19 20 18 18 20 19 but this is just my oppinion ;) |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/18/03 at 13:34:03 Dex for half-elves and humans is 19. Therefore they can't have 18. And if they get 20 wis elves need to get 21. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/18/03 at 15:46:43 I have to agree with Norinth. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Eternyte on 03/18/03 at 22:50:12 Half-Elves have mixed stats as it happens. The problem is there mixed stats are just plain useless. These are how I think stats should be, just an honest opinion. Human: 19 19 19 19 19 19 (perfect as they are) - 114 Dwarf: 21 18 18 21 18 17 (perfect as they are) - 113 Elf: 18 21 19 18 21 21 (+ wis) - 118 Gnome: 17 21 21 18 20 18 (+ wis and + dex) - 115 Halfing: 18 19 20 18 18 19 (- dex) - 112 Half-elf: 20 18 19 19 19 20 (+ str, - int) - 115 Half-orc: 23 15 16 23 13 12 (+ str, + cons, - wis) - 102 I feel gnomes should have the highest dex because of their low strength. I think Halfling's should have 20 dex, because they get an ac bonus. They dont need to dodge more and protect better. You could argue that Half-Elves are not a mix of Elf and Humans, but keep them as they are and not many people will use them. Until they become pointless. Just a few thoughts, on what I think. Feel free to agree or disagree. Thanks!! ;D |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Mammon on 03/18/03 at 23:18:45 Well to be perfectly honest if a halfling has their dex changed they should probably have another stat raised a couple points considering the only reason they are any good is because of thier superiour dexterity, without it they are imo a bit underpowered, feel free to argue why they wouldn't be. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Eternyte on 03/18/03 at 23:55:52 As I said, I think that halfing's already have an armor bonus. So they get hit for less than other classes. So why do they need to dodge more anyway. Fair enough the dex is needed to hit more often, but halfings were fine before the stat changes when they had 20 dex anyway. Also with thieves Halfling's get more strengh and dex than gnomes, who suffer with 17 str (less str), and 20 dex (less dex). It's just balancing they up. Halfing's would certainly not be a poor class, just because they lose 1 dex. Maybe an extra wis could make up for the difference, but I dont see that it would be required. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/19/03 at 02:43:17 halflings are fine |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Eternyte on 03/19/03 at 10:09:55 Good argument. I totally see your reasoning behind that opinion. Thanks for sharing that with us...lol. Care to enlighten us a little as to why you think they are fine? Also after I made this post, I was thinking about what else could be changed, perhaps a change in the classes each race can become. I made a post on this many many months ago. Humans: At the moment, can be all classes. Why would they be Beserkers, well obviously just through playing Nightmist you could argue that some humans are very stupid and dumb. However I feel that humans arent a predominantly evil race, there is always some good in them. Dwarf: Pretty much fine as they are. Although the only possibiliy would be, why would a dwarf be a cleric. When all they are really interested in is keeping themselves to themsevles. Interest in personal strength and richess. Although it seems ok for the moment. Elf: Not sure, but arent Elves meant to be little people. Well I agree with everything they can become. Except maybe fighters, due to their size they would not be able to wear such heavy armor, and weild such a large wepon. Gnomes: Fine as they are. Maybe could become Druids also?? Halfling: Not really sure about this race, but I feel they should be unable to become clerics. Half-Elf: I think these should not be able to become a Mage or Berserker. Even though they are crossed with Elves and Humans, I feel they arent magical enough. As stated with Humans, Half-Elves should not be beserkers. Maybe they could become Paladin's?? Half-Orc - Fine as they are. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Deval on 03/19/03 at 22:43:17 on 03/19/03 at 10:09:55, Eternyte wrote:
It depends. Some depict elves as tall, slender and beautiful creatures, with purple or grey iris', and almost always blonde, although grey through old age is possible, and a very very light brown can be found. A dark haired Elf would usually be the Evil kindred of Elves, although is there have been darker haired elves found in many different forms of fiction. Dark haired elves can generally be found with Dark Elves (Name has many variations), which are the less moralistic cousin of the Elves, who have very pale skin (even in elven standards), have a gaunt look about them, and are perhaps less astute than their cousins. Elves never cut their hair, and are usually decorated in long hanging artistic braids, or braided 'wraps' around the head in various styles. As always, this style of Elf, has the Elven trademark of pointed ears and very chisseled fine facial features, with an almost 'delicate' appearance. Whilst they may lack the brute force and endurance that some of the other races share, the Elves are renown for their speed and agility, and their mastery of magical arts, and therefore the Elf more than compensates for his lack of physical force with his superior speed, dexterity and intellect. Half Elves as discussed, are combination of Human and Elf, or other humaniod/Elf, who are exiled by both thier cousins, as they are niether elf nor man. The point of the ears can sometimes be hard to define, and the iris' of the eyes are very rarely purple, unlike thier full blooded cousins. Although they dislike it, Half Elves do not have any 'massive' adversity to cutting of the hair, but tend not to do so, in order to cover their pointed ears. The Half Elves have a tendency to have less magical power than Elves, but borrow more brute strength and endurance from their human traits. The appearance of the half elf can be vary greatly, swinging from being almost impossible to define from a full blood elf, to the more stocky and broad appearance of a Human. If great caution is excercised, the Half Elf CAN pass unnoticed for periods of time in either society. Exiled Half elves have on many occasions banded together to form their own cities, and occasionally a Half Elf outpost can be stumbled upon. The other Elf Eternyte mentioned, is more a subcategory for a group of Fairies rather than a race in itself, covering a broad range of generally mischevious, ugly, cheeky, tiny creatures. Again, Elf in this sense, is a catergory of Fairy. Naturally there is a plethora of other depictions of the Elf, such as Tolkiens Orcs, and various other novellists. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/20/03 at 09:01:01 In Nightmist, elves are slightly shorter than humans, much more beautiful, therefore they have less strenght and constitution and more charism, intelligence and wisdom. Elves should get -1 int and 1 more wis because there are classes with stats at 22. There is no class that can have 21 wis, and since they are the closest, they would get 21 wis. Gnomes deserve some bonus, maybe even more intelligence. Halflings are fine. Half-Orcs... I can't tell you anything about them, I never played an HO. Humans need to be all 19, they are fine. Druids can't become Gnomes. Half-Elves would benefit if elves get 21 wis, that way they would get 20 and would become better than humans (in a few aspects). All classes for races will probably not be changed, since it would require several players changing their crits. And that would take too much time. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Eternyte on 03/21/03 at 10:03:10 Once again would you like to explain and define why Halflings are fine. Also why cant a Gnome be a druid when a Human can be a Beserker. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/21/03 at 12:37:59 In most RPG's I have played Gnomes can't be Druids. It's the same as saying Dwarves should be able to become mages. Halflings are decent rangers... But for example dwarves are decent fighters, zerkers and thieves. They are short, that's why they have much more dexterity. And since they are short and kinda weak, they loose const and stght. Int isn't even needed, since they can't become mages. Halfling Clerics and Druids are not that good. I definetly prefer +2 wis on a cleric/druid than +2 dex. Humans can become any class. That's the way it works in any RPG I played so far, and that's the way it works here. Human zerkers are not even good! Dwarf zerkers are much better. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/21/03 at 15:40:43 I don't see why gnomes can't become druids. Nightmist doesn't have to be based on other RPGs, so that 'evidence' isn't really that good. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/21/03 at 17:11:10 Gnomes are specialist mages. Dwarves are specialist miners / melee fighters. Elves are (most of the time) druids or rangers. Halflings are thieves, Half-Orcs... Fighters I guess. Humans may become anything, but are usually clerics and paladins. Half-Elves have a bigger variety of classes than elves. This is not based on Nightmist. Why shouldn't Dwarves become mages? Why shouldn't Elves become paladins? Because that's the way things are. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/21/03 at 17:36:18 Dwarves shouldn't become mages because they don't have the intelligence. On several games only humans can become paladins (not sure why) Humans aren't usually clerics.. as you said, there anything. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/21/03 at 18:14:44 And Gnomes can't be druids! Now do you understand? |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/21/03 at 18:36:59 Nope, i've read books/played games (all based on D & D) where you DO have gnome druids. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Norinth on 03/21/03 at 19:32:29 Whatever. Gnomes won't be great druids, elves are better. It's pointless, and quite irrelevant, after all intelligence doesn't affect druids. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/21/03 at 22:12:28 on 03/21/03 at 18:36:59, Lyandor wrote:
Gnomes are generally magic casters, they dont fight much, where druids, can basically be seen a haermits, look at it that way. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Eternyte on 03/22/03 at 16:18:21 Ok lets make Dwarf Mages, now lets be honest...who would actually use one? Gnome Druids on the other hand, I sure would use one. Who else would?..I'm sure many players would. I'm still not convinced as to why halflings should have 18 str, 21 dex and +7 ac over other classes. If someone can give me a reasonable answer I shall agree. Dont base Nightmist on the average RPG, when obviously its not. It has been set as its own game, obviously with ideas from various RPG's, but because one has a different way of things doesnt mean this one should. If you disagree then go an play the other game. Unless you have reasonable arguments. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Pile on 03/22/03 at 17:26:53 Yeah I would go for a gnome druid. The only reason Gaian was a halfling was when they used to get good wisdom and dexterity, exactly what a druid needs if you ask me. I personally can't see how +7 ac is balanced against the +5% damage seen by the elves and dwarves, can't remember what the gnome resist is... +7 makes a fair bit of difference, especially in the lower levels. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/22/03 at 17:52:29 I'd play a gnome druid aswell, but apparently that isn't the point. If gnomes CAN be druids, then there should be the option whether they would make good druids or not. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Necros on 03/22/03 at 19:19:34 on 03/22/03 at 16:18:21, Eternyte wrote:
If we could have dwarf mages i'd roll one STRAIGHT away. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/23/03 at 09:03:51 With 18 int? Thats one 'good' mage. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/23/03 at 12:10:25 with 21 str and 21 con, that IS a good mage. then you can actually lvl them without spending so much gold |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Mammon on 03/23/03 at 13:43:48 Honestly here is my little input, Humans-Will be fine with attribute points which we need soon. Halflings-Should be 18 19 20 18 19 18 with a bonus to covert or stealing, I don't see why they get 7 to ac, that is just dumb. Gnomes-17 21 21 18 19 18-Same racial bonuses, they should be smallest, most agile race. Elves- 18 20 19 18 21 20- Live the longest so they should be the wisest, shouldn't be quite as charismatic as they are beautiful, but have have a kind of stuck up attitude (to a certain degree).Should have some bonuses to bow skills seeing as they are always good with bows. Half-elves- 18 19 19 19 20 20-Should have slight bonus to attribute points and bow skills. Half-Orc-23 15 16 23 14 12-Ugly stupid clumsy as well as thickskinned and skulled, with a lot of muscle. Dwarf-Fine the way they are. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Lyandor on 03/23/03 at 15:01:17 on 03/23/03 at 12:10:25, Tender_Foot wrote:
True, but you'd have 18 wis and 18 int which isn't to good, although i'd still probably train one lol. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Mammon on 03/23/03 at 18:02:05 With current mages fizzle it wouldn't make a huge difference, the hp would be nice, mp would be a little lower but not by too much, but no need to bother discussing this, dwarf mages won't happen, and even if they do they won't be much different untill a mage update. |
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Title: Re: Races Post by Tender_Foot on 03/23/03 at 21:23:45 i think it would be rediculous to see a dwarf mage, but it would be fun to train. Also halflings are fine except for the +7ac, i think it should be changed to something else, but if their dex was turned to 20, there wouldnt be to much to seperate them from other classes. |
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