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Title: New Abilities. Post by Eternyte on 01/25/03 at 18:42:45 Rangers are perhaps the most superior class. First things first it takes 2 hands to use a bow and arrow effectively. Lets lose the shields. Flaming arrow seems to be of no use within the game, the chance to poison has to be increased to about 75% or more. The damage the poison does then should be increased dramatically. New ranger of bows needed as every ranger has an enchanted bow. Once again there needs to be variety. As talked about before maybe Rangers would need to use 1 or 2 spaces of the inventory to carry arrows. A new bar would needed to show the amount of arrows they have left. Maybe a limit to the amount they can carry too. Shield could be replaced by a Quiver. Different quivers could be bought at differing price to hold a differing amount of arrows. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sera on 01/25/03 at 23:07:08 Oh yes, lets take the shield away from the rangers, therefore lowering thier armor EVEN MORE!!! If you take away our shield, we need more armor in some other manner, it's bad enough already. I am currently at a whole whopping 96 armor. You take away my shield and I'm down to 76. Tell me exactly, how I'm supposed to be protected without it. Also take into consideration, I have Spider gaunts which add 6 armor. Not everyone has those. Now we're down to 70. Let's not forget my 4 crs...that's another 12 armor, that not everyone else has. Now were down to 68 armor. Mages have 32 armor with nothing special on. Just Golden Robes and a silver amulet. With Aura of Protection, that is bumped up to 80 armor. That is 28 more armor than rangers would be with just your base items. They've already lowered our hit % and how hard we hit, now you want to lower the armor too? What's next? Lowering our HP too? |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by the Dark Sun on 01/26/03 at 00:00:36 I agree that to use a bow you cannot use a shield. I'm not saying that this means they 'should' have lower armor; if this is done, perhaps other armor options willl need implimented (maybe). Also, the potential of different types of quivers of arrows (affecting attack damage/to hit) would be a considerable addition to the class. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sin2 on 01/26/03 at 04:38:35 If rangers do get there shields taken away, i agree there needs to be something takes its place. Whether it be a new item that also gives armor to rangers, or maybe increasing the hit rate, or hit points of their atacks, something would need to be given to make them plausible. Here are some things I have seen on other abilities/ideas I have seen on other games that Rangers have the ability to do (In know way am I saying they should or should not have any of these so do not flame the ideas) -Use small round shields on not drawing arm. -Have seen them with ability to covert in forrset/nature areas -Critical shot(basically a death wielding blow that takes all stamina). -Hypnotise -Charm animals to follow and attack. -Armor increasing magic -Dexterity increasing magic -Strength increasing magic -Ability to weild blades w/larger shield. Like I said above I do not think they should be given all these, but just trying to give some ideas. The way I have seen them made in other games is basically like a cousin to the druid, but with out the religousness of nature. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sera on 01/26/03 at 05:47:45 Oh yes, that's another of my problems. Lower our armor by taking away our shields and THEN make us take up valuable space in our inventory for arrows!!! Not to mention that you will have to carry a TON of arrows to bosses and while training (and pking). Now you have no pots because you have a full inventory of arrows that you can't use because you DIED cause you can't carry any pots to heal with!! |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Stotic on 01/26/03 at 06:03:52 Well it only makes it realistic, but if your going to do this with two-handed bows you might as well do it to fighters with halberds (a two arm weapon). Also maybe have crossbows available and you'd be able to carry shields. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Oblivion on 01/26/03 at 07:23:10 sera the arrows would only take 1-2 slots and that could be around say 300 arrows for a slot. they are not going to run out of arrows anytime soon.. Maybe different types of arrows. Some that when they hit someone they take off a point or 2 in a certain stat. Some that can lower dmg of the player. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Pyros on 01/26/03 at 10:08:23 on 01/25/03 at 23:07:08, Sera wrote:
Another person that doesn't want their best class to be made slightly worse? Mages have to spend like 80k or something to get Golden Robes and a Silver Amulet, which is more than what rangers pay for their armour, AND THEY GET MORE! The arrow idea is good, it makes the game more realistic, but maybe it could have a seperate slot instead of one/two in the inventory? PS. Lets not forget that Aura of Protection costs around 500k (Not sure of the exact price) |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sin on 01/26/03 at 10:21:35 Was it not suggested earlier having a quiver that would be equipped in place of shield. Then maybe make an extra slot on bar on how many arrows you have along with what type, leaving your inventory open (unlike mages who have to use their whole inventory to hold mana and be able to fight). |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Pyros on 01/26/03 at 11:01:23 I think it was, but I can't remember what topic it was in. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Darken on 01/26/03 at 12:22:50 Rangers are sappose to have low armor due to there speed, and when using there bow, they stand a distence from there enemy usually, not right infront of them :-/ |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Mammon on 01/26/03 at 14:35:30 Ranger are quick so they shouldn't have very high armor,they should have a higher dodge rate.I think it is realistic to have quivers in your inventory even though I don't like taking up space in my inventory with them, as also I feel it is realistic that they cannot use shields with a bow, or fighters with a halberd and a shield. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Insomnia on 01/26/03 at 20:30:32 That's something really bad with nightmist; every weapon in the game being "one handed" - even though it would be impossible to use some of them with one hand. Halberds, bows, and a couple of swords in the game should use both the weapon and the shield space.. :-* |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Mammon on 01/26/03 at 21:34:54 Yes and each of which, as discussed in the past, should have its own advantages and disadvantages, like with rangers (This is a ranger discussion forum right?) should be able to choose different styles of arrows, some maybe that increase damage slighty, maybe hit more often, do some elemental damage or cast some debuff spell that weakens the enemies such as: Flame Arrow: Fire damage,probably small maybe does more damage to enemies that hate fire. Ice Arrow Earth Arrow Wind Arrow Water Arrow Ice Arror: all same as fire arrow with appropriate elements. Arrow of Sloth: Has a % to cast slow on opponents, making one less stamina per round return. Enfeebling Arrow: Has a % of lowering the enemies strength slightly. ( Does not stack) Mind Thrusting Arrow: % of lowering enemies intelligence. and so on...of course if these or any others were added other classes would have to get weapons just like these, or something that allows something simialar in order to keep rangers from making all other classes useless. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by JLH on 01/27/03 at 03:51:30 As i said before, i do like the arrow idea, where the arrows take the shield slot, and you can have various different arrows 'equipped'. But i'm not sure how well it would work in Nightmist. 3 attacks per round (10 seconds) is 18 arrows a minute, is 1080 arrows in 1 hour of constant fighting. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Stotic on 01/27/03 at 04:05:51 on 01/27/03 at 03:51:30, JLH wrote:
Better stock up on those arrows! |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by PopTart on 01/27/03 at 06:00:09 The mages mana would still cost alot more then rangers arrows. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sin on 01/27/03 at 09:00:19 Would have to agree on that one, it is really expensive to do anything with a mage, so unless you have unlimited magic (of course not realistic), then there shouldn't be unlimited arrows. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Alicia on 01/27/03 at 19:16:00 Arrow of Sloth...... now ive heard some funny ideas thats one of the best. Someone was killed by someonelses rapid fire from their Enchanted Bow firing an Arrow of Sloth As for arrows, couldnt you use the magic bar, fix it at say 200 for rangers, mana manacrystals mage/pally/druid/cleric only then add small/large quivers of arrows which are like ranger only 'mana crystals', then make bows need one 'magic' to use, and dualshot another? |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Alicia on 01/27/03 at 19:22:53 Oh, and if you rapidfire with 3 stam and kill with your first shot, thats still 3 arrows down the drain... Dunno if that idea would be popular though, more likely one of those 'realism over what people want' questions like shield+bow or hally. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Leafstorm on 01/27/03 at 19:25:32 (About JLH's post) That means that in 1 hour of constant fighting, they would use 3 quivers of arrows (aprox.) if each quiver had 300 arrows. Of course the arrows would replace the shield in the other hand. And this is constant fighting, which is impossible. And not all rangers are level 30, even if they will be sooner than we expect ;). But if you rapid and only hit once and the target dies, then you should spend only one arrow. If you failed twice and hit once, then it is fair to have lost 3 arrows (Duh!). |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Oblivion on 01/27/03 at 19:31:22 1 hour of fighting im sure they are going to need to go buy more pots or mana.. And if leveling, carry little more extra arrows.. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Shawn on 01/27/03 at 20:26:10 seeing that people are suggesting that rangers be more realistic, so heres a realistic idea for rangers, rangers are supposed to be a long range attacking character, so all rangers should be able to fire arrows from one or two squares away from there possible target, this only seems fair , if you want it to be realistic, rangers cant attack you from a distance, while u have to find them upclose to counter. this is only my 2 cents on the whole realistic thing, if you gonna go realistic, then it has to be down to the tiny things |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sin on 01/27/03 at 21:49:50 I would have to agree witht hat, if you want more realisitic, then you need to go all the way, not just to where it is conveinient. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by PopTart on 01/27/03 at 22:04:08 And if your gonna get any stupider just kill youself. Rangers would be near invincible. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sin on 01/27/03 at 22:19:14 Maybe you missed the point, what I am trying to say that if arrows are instituted where rangers have to buy thousands of arrows everyday to train, then something else needs to be done to balance that. I am saying that it doesnt seem right to try to make something realistic only to the point that is convenient or hinders them enough. I just think that if no shields are instituted and arrows are also, that dodge rate needs to go up when there is no shield on, and that rangers get the ability to use blades, which lets them use a shield, thus taking away the having to buy arrows. I dont think that the blades they have should be as high as a base damage as fighters either, so they do not become the same class. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Sera on 01/27/03 at 23:07:05 I just ran a little test in my clan arena with a fighter. He had no special equipment on. Just spiked armor and a hally. No Sgs, Crs or anything. I also had no special equipment and no shield. Yes, I did kill him, but consider this, if I was having to carry arrows, I would have been killed. He would have had more pots. One idea that was mentioned was implementing an extra slot on rangers for arrows. This is at least a better idea than taking away our tiny bit of inventory space for them. Another idea that was brought up was giving rangers a better chance to dodge, making up for the loss of the shield. Rangers are supposed to be quick already, so this too is a good idea. Mostly my problem is this. Everyone wants rangers to have stuff taken away, but no one is offering to give them anything in return, to make up for the loss. The last thing we need is another class like the druids... |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by PopTart on 01/28/03 at 04:42:55 Even if rangers were to buy arrows they'd be in better position then mages. 1-2 slots, big deal! Mages don't carry much healing potion at all. If they did they would be stuck using nothing more then a silver staff. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Pyros on 01/28/03 at 08:23:18 Making rangers have to use arrows as two slots in your inventory wouldn't make them as bad as druids... Not even close. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Deval on 01/29/03 at 01:12:29 on 01/27/03 at 22:04:08, PopTart wrote:
Rofl, poptart, you are my god. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Shawn on 01/29/03 at 13:45:57 on 01/27/03 at 22:04:08, PopTart wrote:
i hope this doesnt refer to my post , cause seeing how my post acctually had some intelligence in it, it just makes you look "stupider" and on a different note, my post was to the "realistic", not saying it should be in the game |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by KaZuL on 01/29/03 at 15:28:50 sera makes a very good point. Most of you people only wanna take away from rangers, making it easier for you to beat them. I'm a ranger user as most people can tell. I'm not asking you to add anything to my favorite class. I'm asking you to leave it the hell alone and stop trying to ruin it to make the game easier for you. If you owned a few arch rangers i think ur opinions might change. You don't see me asking them to take AoP from mages, or shields from fighters when their using a hally. Why don't u play the game instead of trying to get unfair changes inacted to better suit you. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by PopTart on 01/29/03 at 18:17:38 This is a ranger area where people talk about rangers. It wouldn't hurt rangers to carry arrows in 2-3 spots. That's just the way I look at it. Rangers still get nice damage by attacking with a bow. Shawn - Yes I was referring to your post. If that were to happen it would be highly unfair and Nightmist would become even more over-populated with Rangers. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by KaZuL on 01/29/03 at 21:39:48 very good point poptart. Seems like freakin everyone has rangers now. I got Kazul back when not that many people had good arch rangers. Seems like right around same time I started working on getting more rangers everyone in nm had the same idea lol. It's not a big deal, but it was more fun when I they were more original, and not just a fad. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by PopTart on 01/29/03 at 23:11:39 I don't know where the sudden popularity of Rangers came from. I remember when there were only 10 high level Rangers. I made PopTart ages ago when Celstial Bow was suppose to be coming out. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Oblivion on 01/29/03 at 23:18:14 The carry of arrows wont hurt them, you people are not thinking correctly, this is a game of alts, adjust. As for duels, you just need the arrows that are in the right hand slot to duel with, that keeps you with your 14 pots. Secondly, I've posted again and again, instead of trying to bring things down for other classes to be better, bring the sucker classes up even with the others.. Also, I've mention the use of many different types of arrows, such as ones that cause stats to decrease, maybe ones that can even stun once for so and so secs and can be used say per 2 mins. Maybe even ones that could ignore % of someones armor(would have to be something like, could take up 3+ spots or way less arrows then the rest so doesn't completely make rangers very good..).. This would make rangers a little more complex then rapid fire over and over. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Shawn on 01/30/03 at 12:55:49 PopTart- even i think its not a good idea, and im the one who said it, just thought i'd clarify why i did, is just to make a point about the realistic post. which seems to have been clarified now And on a different note, i think the arrows would be interesting, hell a challenge you might add, players could have to think twice about attacking anything and everything , if you had to pay for them |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Merchant on 01/31/03 at 21:01:42 not sure if anybody mentioned this already but the shield being taken away is bad for armor. I think they should get a quiver in its place. um I dont' like the inventory with the arrow things waste of space. should just replace the mana bar with # of arrows or something lol but then it'll be like using a mage so i dont' know, sry i'm just babbling on and on i'll stop now |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by The Joker on 01/31/03 at 21:04:40 Rangers should have to carry the arrows in the inventory. Mages have to carry all that mana..Rangers hit for more then fighters and like every other class so they shouldnt get as many potion slots. Only fair :) And yes i do own an Archmaster Ranger. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Kelevandros on 02/01/03 at 03:01:15 Well, I am to tired to read every post in this thread, but from the looks of it, it is all just a summary of anothers idea. Therefore, I will 'grace' you with my idea: -Drop the shield. -Incorperate the arrows using the MP bar for Rangers. -New quivers up the set number. -Increase Dodge %. -Increase Hit %. -Up Flaming Arrow's poison damage. Just a few ideas that seem almost neccesary. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by medication on 02/01/03 at 04:19:40 Why not make quiver as part of equipment other than shield ? -Add 2-3 extra spots for quivers on equipment page (ie 2 on sides and 1 on back), and make quivers buyable thing in shops. Spice upp with level restriction (skill increase): at lv 15 add possibility to equip quiver #2 at lv 25 add possibility to equip quiver #3 -Each one can hold certain amount of arrows which would be represented on mp bar as TOTAL amount of arrows carrying -Add possibility to choose arrow-type on ability side (ie klick on rapid fire, klick on fire arrows, klick on monster/crit to fire one round rapid fire of fire arrows) Keep shield, but only very small shields could be equipped by rangers (like thieves have now or forearm protection as someone mentioned that earlier), reduce armor value on those shields. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by drizzt_dourden on 02/01/03 at 13:38:36 on 02/01/03 at 04:19:40, medication wrote:
just make sure the fire arrows are described as having some sort of automatic lighting system(magical?) or you will have nit pickers complaining about "how can you rapid fire flaming arrows?...you would have to light them each individually!" |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Tender_Foot on 03/08/03 at 20:34:54 Why would Rangers be given an extra slot for arrow? mages don't have extra slots for mana |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Blast on 03/10/03 at 22:16:31 instead of Sera's armors they could for exemple get ability to pick up herbs or something (its stiupid i know) and after eating one they get + 1 dex or str or whatever depending on herb, so they wont be gods and they couldnt sell herbs to other classes to get cash only because they are rangers u wouldnt be bale to eat (cuz its gettin too old and ugly) your herb after 5 mins or how much time ya want. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Tender_Foot on 03/11/03 at 05:14:07 why should rangers get stat mods from herbs? |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Zerlix on 03/12/03 at 04:33:41 I think rangers should lose their shield but also the quiver adds about 1/2 the armor and quivers only determine amount of arrows you can carry and you can buy better quivers at higher lvls Everything in the game costs money to operate except for fighters, thiefs, rangers, and berserkers...now 2 of those are already almost identical and we should keep the money making ones equal to the expensive classes: mages, clerics, paladins, druids all of those are used for their magical abilities And don't cry about mages having to carry around a lot of mana, with beam they can round or almost round just about anything 60x4 or 5 240-300 damage and at high lvls mages have a low fizzle rate criticize as you feel needed :P |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Zerlix on 03/12/03 at 04:35:08 "I think rangers should lose their shield but also the quiver adds about 1/2 the armor as the shield and quivers only determine amount of arrows you can carry and you can buy better quivers at higher lvls" btw the quiver should go in place of shield |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Blast on 03/13/03 at 14:50:49 thats a good idea |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Tender_Foot on 03/14/03 at 08:24:21 how would a quiver add protection? I can maybe see 2-6, but 1/2 would be 10, which i dont see a small round canaster thrown on your back or around your shoulder protecting that well. And mages fizzle a lot, specially when attacking players. Also people are getting smarter now and usually have 18 wis on their crits, reducing damage. And since you brought damage into the picture, there's no way to increase how much damage a mage deals, on the contrary though, there's Enhance, Champs Strength, Righteous...all which boost the other characters damage. |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Carpe_Noctem on 04/09/03 at 16:57:23 Yes that's true... but how many other Classes can chose to save 1 stam... and just disappear... without any of the other classes <excepts Cleric> being able to detect them again... so basically a mage could... "Fire 3 beams for 3x60 go invis... wait for stam fire another 3 beams for 3x60 go invis... use Mana etc etc" This won't happen in a one on one fight though... but in large party fights... like those who recently have happened outside the South gate of NM No one has a chance to even hit the mage unless they have him macro'd or have a Cleric with them... Hmm yeah... Going invis anytime it suits you really must suck... especially after you have made an <example> Fighter lose 2 of his pots and you have lost none of your HP's and 1 Mana crystal... I feel for you mage players, I really do. "Mankind must die..." |
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Title: Re: New Abilities. Post by Tender_Foot on 04/11/03 at 04:41:22 man, i think your ignorant reading your posts, lol. most people have clerics readily available to them, and there isnt really that many mages. and once again, your lucky if your going to hit someone with 3 whatever with mages |
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