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Title: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Dwaerkyn on 04/01/03 at 00:42:06 Pallies: Fighters that can heal and enhance stats. Thats it right? Well since I like to rp, and I like pallies, I always rp my pallies as knights, they seem like it, go /library medium lance, it says something about knights and horses. Unfortunately, as far as I have heard of, there is no such thing as a horse. And, it seems no such thing as a knight. Shouldn't pallies get some 'knight' abilities or just be improved? Lets face it, they suck as they are. They get 2 stamina at level 6, but their third is at level 15? And their fourth at level 22? And their spells, they only have like 6, heal, cleanse, divine prayer, aid, champions strength, and holy speed. Most of these suck. Such as cleanse (only it has become more useful lately, good.), heal becomes useless at level 18 with the coming of aid. Their weapons are stinky. Its oak staff until level 5 then quarterstaff until level TWELVE, then its spear until level 15, then BOH until pike at level 18, then they have to wait until level 23 for JUSTICE BLADE, which is worse then a hally which you get at level 20 for fighter/zerks. Plus they have 4 stamina until 5 at level 28 or something. I guess they can use cobalt but it pretty useless considering that they can heal themselves, it saves a little of their measly stamina though. Do they even get scroll spells? They don't get horses. They don't get attack abilities like smite or track or rapid fire. They stink Anyone disagree with this? They are just a little close to being pretty good, but still they are worse then any other class, except maybe cleric but those rock at healing and are impossible to kill unless you are like berserkers who can one-round them. Pallies need just a small, tiny, little-bitty improvement. How about 3 new weapons. Holy Lance: Base Damage: 15 Vamparic: 0.7 (save a bunch of their measley stamina) Magical: yes Monster damage table: Skeleton stuff Description This weapon has been carved and enchanted by the remote mages of the ancient east. It is made entirely of cedar and is extremely light. It's length exceeds beyond 10 feet, but its magical properties make it shrink when enemies are far away. There are carved runes, which grow a bright white when looked at. This weapon has been rumoured to be able to suck the life out of one's soul to give spiritual life to the on who wields it. Class restrictions: Paladins A little lengthy I know... Saber of Souls: Level 28 For Pallies Base Damage: 28 Magical: No Vamparic: Umm can you do negatives? Description: This blade suck life out of one's body, unleashes it in the form of a dark energy which damages anothers soul. And how about a belt? Belt of the Martyr: Armor: -90 ( if negatives can be done ) Dex: -8 str: +90 wis: -8 Char: - 8 Description: This belt takes away all ones defenses, and arms him with a POWERFUL strength enough to kill one in one easy blow. These would be RARE and a rare scroll spell Savior: Saviour give someone +5 strength and + 5 dexerity and heals them by 10. Doesn't make them more knightly. But makes them quit stinking, and makes them worthy to be called something else then 'Stinkers' |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 04/01/03 at 01:58:01 Have you any idea what 0.7 vamparic would do? And a level 28 weapon with 28 base damage! Your ideas don’t exactly seem balanced and although I haven’t get a massive amount of experience with paladins they aren't as bad as you make out. With aid they now have massive staying power; it seems that people only ever want to be able to round other crits and don’t look at the whole picture. In my initial opinion of just recently owning a high level paladin they could do with some new armour. Even if it was the same base as fireleaf or just a few points higher it would add that edge to them and stop them looking like they borrowed some left over equipment. Give them some chain armour of some sort with a nice name, nothing too special but enough make them look that little bit more individual as a class. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by King o Sausage on 04/01/03 at 02:11:46 I am stunned at this post.... (And I don't mean I agree with it.) |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Sanctuared on 04/01/03 at 05:00:10 I agree with it, to an extent. Paladins definatly need better armor, and a real good higher level weapon. Like a dagger of spirits to thieves, or enchanted bow to rangers. The armor isn't quite as important as a new weapon. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 04/01/03 at 18:05:56 If your complaining about the damage it’s not really down to the base of their weapon, 24 is pretty decent and remember enchanted bows have a lower base damage than this. You couldn’t really increase their damage much more though because they will just become fighters with the added bonus of being able to heal for 60s. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Sanctuared on 04/01/03 at 22:55:28 I understand this Pile... they shouldn't have a weapon that hits as well as the halberd for fighters. But my level 28 pally only hits for around 30-40 MAX. Is that normal for 24 base? |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 04/01/03 at 23:11:21 Well paladins are pretty much set up so that your always going to be using a spell to enhance your normal attack, the mana costs are low and they last a relatively long time, no problems there. I tend to have holy speed cast most the time on my pally but this is obviously only a dex increase and doesn’t affect your max damage; I hit for low 60s max if my memory serves me correctly (lvl 30). That is on monsters of course, and if your pally is level 28 then it should be hitting for higher even with 18 str (unless you are talking about P v. P). Now if you take same race fighter at level 30 its going to be hitting in the high 70s (been a while since I’ve been on an arch fighter but so could be a bit out), not a massive difference and one which I personally think is made up for with the high healing capacity of the paladin. Now I’m putting forward a pretty strong argument here but I don’t want you to think I’m arrogant and consider myself to be some sort of expert. I’ve only had this paladin for a couple of days and I’m still getting used to it, these are just my first impressions and I’m not trying to say you are wrong. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Bahashabeem on 04/02/03 at 01:00:16 well pile i know your a good man and all but what lvl is that pally i tell yo8u to fight any ranger or fighter of that lvl i suppose they would crudly change your perspectives of how usefull the are player on player like you said in field the are great heal and fight both of best worlds hard to take down. but on p vs p you spend more time healing then actually fighting so i believe they need a better grasp with there spells or a better updated armor spell or new weapon well lets see what ya think i value your opinion as i do anyones * bows |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 04/02/03 at 01:23:25 Yeah might be best if I get to grips with this pally a bit more I suppose ( its level 30 by the way). I fought a clannie yesterday about 10-15 times on various crits in the duelling arena; however, it wasn’t a completely balanced trial since I had SGs and 4CRs on while the opponent only used SGs I believe. Anyways without healing I died most fights but I was still able to lower the opponents hp to within mort (except on a dwarf fighter). When healing I found I was only needing to cast aid about 3 times every 2 rounds which left 3 stamina on which I would probably hit for a combined average of 40-50. Now from all this it became clear that paladins don’t really have much offensive power but can just heal away forever, mounting a slow counterattack. So to me they things seem relatively balanced in terms of the overall picture, but I do understand where a lot of you are coming from because in the field this can be somewhat limited. For example a paladin will never round anything of the same level and by using the defensive tactics it going to take a hell of a long time to kill a similar level crit. This causes problems in itself since time is against you if you want the fight to remain one on one. Without taking some of their healing ability away I just don’t see how it could be balanced to make them more offensive, but I’m going to go away fight some more lol, give it a week and I might totally disagree with myself and think paladins aren’t so hot. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Blinky on 04/02/03 at 10:06:27 Palidans are one of the best, if not the best class fro pvp. Its extremely hard to beat a palidan one on one...anyone who has dueled a pali will tell you so. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Lyandor on 04/02/03 at 16:06:11 Pallys arent the best in pvp, in a one on one duel there good, but when you have a fight with more than 2 people in, they get crap, and this happens a lot of the time. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Kaveto on 04/03/03 at 00:15:49 on 04/01/03 at 00:42:06, Dwaerkyn wrote:
Just get 2 coconut halves and clap them together repeatedly while moving around Nightmist. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Malfunction on 04/04/03 at 14:20:35 on 04/01/03 at 22:55:28, Sanctuared wrote:
really ? thats how much i hit with my lvl 16 paladin with a BoH o.o you did say Max didn't you ? :S:S |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Defiant on 04/04/03 at 23:13:12 Paladins are fine. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Mammon on 04/04/03 at 23:35:18 Paladins by no means ‘stink‘ they are all right, not the best, not the worst. The only quarrel I have with them is the fact that with holy speed they don’t hit nearly as much, nor dodge nearly as much as I feel they should. Although that problem is understandable considering balancing issues, which are still being handled. The weapons and items you suggested need much more thought obviously, .7 vampric and 28 base damage is s little over the top. Maybe a slightly more powerful weapon that is a little easier to get than Blade of Time may be in order, but not necessary. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Defiant on 04/05/03 at 00:08:25 Paladins need nothing. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Zerlix on 04/05/03 at 05:31:17 /t defiant wrongo blowzo paladins could have lots of improving done to them but they only need a little they should have a spell that increases their armor by 30 for an amount of time based on level and costs 20 mana to perform and another one where they can cast it on another person but it only ups armor by 20 and costs 25 mana and lasts depending on the paladin's lvl |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Dwaerkyn on 04/05/03 at 19:17:10 Paladins are NOT fine, they may be better then any other classes one on one. What are paladins supposed to be, clerics with less spells and more fighting, but unfortunately they get less healing and are not good at fighting at all. Clerics are better at EVERYTHING but fighting, but a cleric can heal for 100 (divine restoration) I admit that I was a little angry at my paladin being stinky and probably overexaggerated some of my suggestions. My theory. There are REALLY 4 classes, Mage, Fighter, Cleric, Theif Mage + Cleric = Druid Cleric + Fighter = Paladin Theif + Fighter = Berserker, Ranger Thats pretty close to what they are eh? Now lets loook at the cleric + fighter Now the cleric addition is fine, Paladins have a good numbers of spells, but they stink ar fighting. I've had a level 24 paladin, so I admit I don't really know what an archie paladin is like. But I've beat level 28 paladins with my level twenty five theif. It was done slyly I'll admit it. I attacked with my magma knife thrice, so the pally didn't think It would need to heal so much just yet. He attacked me, then next round I do a big stamina assassinate *grins evilly* Is that stinky or what? I was down to 30 hp at the end. I guarentee you, do everything my post said and pallies will defeat everyone. How about just give pallies their third and fourth and fifth stamina sooner, and at level 28 give them a Lance of Justice, with 26 base damage and a tiny mana leech. How does that sound? |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 04/05/03 at 19:46:42 Paladins are not fine, but they may be better than any other class one on one! Can you not see what you are saying? I think paladin’s fight pretty good and as for the fight with the thief it is the foolishness of the other person to blame not paladins being lame; whenever you fight a thief you always keep your hp above their max assassinate, anyone who has any sense knows this. You people don’t consider all the factors at work and what is the point of doing what you say in your post so that they can beat everyone? The aim would surely be for balance and not just to make your crit better. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Blast on 04/05/03 at 20:14:51 Pile i think u should make a pally and play it all week long, without alts, then u should understand what he means. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 04/05/03 at 20:20:33 I am training what is currently a level 16 pally and playing a level 30, without alts. I am not saying that there is nothing that needs tweaking on them I simply disagree with what some people are saying when they continue to contradict themselves. That guy just said that they may be better than any other class one on one but insists they suck... and the logic in this is? |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Defiant on 04/06/03 at 06:34:56 Paladins don't need changing for gods sake. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Dwaerkyn on 05/05/03 at 23:41:48 Umm what about for the pallies sake. In a mosh, you'd never see a pally win. Let's give a pally from two prospectives: Someone is training a level 25 pally in the barracks, escorted by a level 28 theif and a level 20 fighter. A pking party comes along, consisting of a level 25 dwarf theif, a level 22 rangers and a level 28 cleric. First the dwarf and ranger assault the theif, while the cleric casts a wrath of the gods. and enhances them. The pally heals the theif up, using all but one of his stamina, which he uses to 'holy speed' himself. The theif and fighter assault the ranger, but he gets healed up by the cleric. The dwarf and ranger assault the theif again, this time assisted by the cleric and his wrath of the gods and an attack or two. Killing the thief. The pally does his champ str on himself and assaults the cleric, and ditto with the fighter, the cleric heals himself up. All three assault the pally, killing him, the theif should be dead very, very soon. The pally doesn't have the ability to heal a full round of damage, and can't do enough damage to one-round anybody. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Newb on 05/05/03 at 23:53:58 Is this a made up situation? If not, then the pally just has no clue how to use his crits. Well, either way he has no clue how to use his crits. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Alicia on 05/06/03 at 18:37:42 OK pally can bash up any class in 1v1 (xept maybe clerics) but who cares? The only time a pally will be 1 on 1 in the game is when testing your crits in the clan arena. Now lets compare the pally in a real situation, when both sides have multiple crits. Champs strength - righteous uses less stam and improves hit chance Aid - cleric is better Fighting - we will exclude the csotw coz its soo expensive, comparing pallys with all other classes: using holyspeed, expect pally to hit 4/5 times with base 25 weapon (RB) fighter usually hits 5/6 times with 25 weapon (hally) or 29 (bot), not counting the damage bonus to fighters, which pushes it up more ranger (assume hling with dexies) hits 4/5 times with effective base 63 weapon theif hits 3-4/5 times with effective base 54 weapon (depending on class) zerker hits 4/6 times with effective base 75 weapon (hally) or base 87 weapon (bot) Unsure about druids but they can spell themselves up an insane amount, have 2 first choice attacks and hare considarable harder than a pally Mages and clerics should be doing something other than staffing people. So, presuming the mage is beaming and the cleric healing, it is easy to see who the weakest link is in the fight... Where pallys are very useful is on the longer areas (desert, mountains, chronos ect) as they can fight and be used as spare healer in case your cleric eats it in the middle of nowhere, with their low hp clerics are often the first to do so. And in low level areas, where they can out heal the cleric and are far more useful (ive completed the sewage smithy area with just a pally and a druid a bit ago) |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Insomnia on 05/07/03 at 21:04:40 Paladins are just fine as they are, and they definately don't need any new weapons. Blade of Time has 29 b-dmg and aren't impossible to get anymore. Rose Blade has as high b-dmg as fighters' strongest weapon, which is more than enough. After that aid was changed slightly they became one of the most balanced classes in game. Don't change anything! |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Alicia on 05/08/03 at 01:42:00 Pile: I am not saying that there is nothing that needs tweaking on them I simply disagree with what some people are saying when they continue to contradict themselves. That guy just said that they may be better than any other class one on one but insists they suck... and the logic in this is? The logic is - who cares about one on ones the only time that happens is when testing your own/close friends crist in clan arena. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 05/10/03 at 17:30:16 Well in reply, I think that is a preposterous statement. If you say, “whom cares about one-on-one situations” how do you suggest classes can possibly be balanced from their effectiveness in unbalanced situations? The point of the single Player vs. player is that if a paladin is fairly matched to other classes then they are pretty much going to be balanced in game. Plus, you have already said they are great in the ‘adventure’ type situations. Now the reason that you think paladins suck in these situations simply lies in the fact that the overall odds probably aren’t balanced, this isn’t the paladin’s fault. Time after time people overlook the effects of stats and equipment, you take a crappy pally against some decked 5-stat crits and you’re never going to be onto a winner. Without trying to sound like a b****, but if you’re experience of paladins lies entirely with Nelly_Nell, it's worth remembering that it's at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of stats. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/10/03 at 19:51:41 on 04/05/03 at 19:17:10, Dwaerkyn wrote:
only a n00b pally would fall for that thief trick |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Horror on 05/10/03 at 20:02:01 on 05/05/03 at 23:41:48, Dwaerkyn wrote:
Ok, don't me such a moron and create situations that will almost never happen. Your situation is just a load of bs, the second party is way more powerful than the first.. the clerics higher level than the paladin, so its going to be far better.. both the thief and ranger are still good enough to take out the level 28 thief, 25 pally and 20 fighter, as they'd be fully spelled up. Nobody fights like that.. except a total newb, the pally would use his stam to heal himself as he gets hit.. simple isn't it? Get an arch pally and duel every class in the game, you will win on all except possibly thief and druid (druids are over powered) Paladins are fine, you just can't use them. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Alicia on 05/11/03 at 00:29:24 **** The point of the single Player vs. player is that if a paladin is fairly matched to other classes then they are pretty much going to be balanced in game. **** As ive sed before, my l27 dwarf zerker (perfect in everything exept charisma) was beaten by a l24 pally in a clan arena. You dont see that same l24 pally one clicking perfect archie fighters and zerkers though? Oh, and nelly_nell is 2 off perfect fighting stats (1 in str, 1 in dex).. i usually keep him on the airship ladder nowadays for desert runs. I have two lower level pallys since at low lvls pallys heal double what clerics do, just like how druids spell better than mages. If you want, put it this way. 2 people in alt duel, both equally skilled experts. One has a cleric and 4 rangers, one had a cleric 3 rangers and a pally (all perfect l30's). The pally guy will lose most of the time. What i think they need is something that cant be bettered by fighters or clerics, and id say give em 55 armour chestplate |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Pile on 05/11/03 at 01:23:24 Hmm Nelly_nell’s charisma sucks too if I remember correctly (could be wrong though been a while since I owned it) and 18 strength and 18 dex does make a fair bit of difference in my opinion. A paladin isn’t meant for one clicking; that’s why so many people think they suck, simply because you can’t round something. In my opinion paladins are great, their beauty lies in a tactical, healing fight. A paladin who tries to round someone is probably a dead paladin. I suggested before a slight armour increase, but 55 – is that a typo? Either way I think they are pretty much balanced, but it’s just my opinion. EDIT: Sorry, I completely read that wrong – you had said a cleric, 3 rangers and a pally. I still personally feel that with these numbers of crits it would come down to who used them best though. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Horror on 05/11/03 at 09:42:20 Why don't you people get it? Paladings aren't supposed to heal like clerics, therefore saying they suck because there not as good as clerics is a load of nuts. Paladings are extremely good and will win almost every FAIR fight they have. |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Alicia on 05/15/03 at 23:48:02 Yea nelly_nell has low charisma.. but he can still win 1v1s pretty easily ** or who gets lucky with the lag see my post in discussion about lag Pallys dont need to be able to one click, true, they just need something that makes them better at something. Yes i did suggest 55 armour, its only 7 better than fighters btw. I presume 'spiked armor' refers to early heavy plate, the kind mercenaries and guards would wear, while paladins, which id presume are holy knights, would get the best armour availible which presumable would be blessed in some way and kept in the best of conditions. Not just a tunic (or a worm hide) |
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Title: Re: Change Paladins name to Stinkers, or improve t Post by Dwaerkyn on 05/23/03 at 01:41:41 on 05/11/03 at 09:42:20, Horror wrote:
It's not the healing rate thats the problem, the healing is fine, its just that they can't hit (even with spells), don't do much damage when they do, and have boring abilities and spells. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Horror on 05/23/03 at 16:23:20 They seem to be able to hit quite easily. I only said their healing is fine beacuse someone mentioned it not being that good. Granted they don't do much damage when they hit, but they do hit quite often. Simpel solution, if you don't like their spells and abilities, don't play them. They hit fine, quite often, and heal for quite a bit. Paladins don't need any work imo. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Dwaerkyn on 05/24/03 at 03:24:30 They don't hit good. I figure my level 24 pally hits about 50 or 60% of the time at orc caves with spells, thats pretty bad. I guess he can heal to spend more time there, that sorta makes up for it. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Dwaerkyn on 05/24/03 at 03:41:57 Also, they're healing does maybe 70 damage at top levels, thats about enough to heal themselfs for 210 in one round. Vs a ranger. Pally Attacking Spell Spell Miss 40 65 Ranger Rapid fire 72 63 miss miss 57 (total 192) Pally (heals himself up, takes a full round) Ranger Miss Miss 66 73 82 Pally (heal again) Goes on like this, pally would maybe fizzle a few times, causing hp to not be full, resulting in death, on the other hand, the ranger might miss a whole round (as they are known to do) causing the pally to be able to attack. Pretty even? Yeah one on one its pretty even, though the pally would get some extra stam now and then. Ranger would hypno, and maybe flaming. In the end, however, the pally would win. Lets see, now in a two-archie, vs two-archie duel. One Berserker and One Cleric vs A Pally and a ranger. Pally casts spells on himself (and champ str on ranger), and attacks with stuff left. on the Berserker. Ranger Hypno's the berserker and cleric, then rapids on the berserker. Berserker berserkes on the ranger, with the cleric heals once on the berserker, divine lights the ranger, casts spells on himself and berserker taking all stamina. Next round the pally heals the ranger. Ranger rapids on berserker. Then the berserked smites at the ranger, bringing it down to a dangerously low hp cleric heals the berserker twice, and divine lights the ranger. The berserker is able to do above 230 damage, the pallies max healing for one round, eventually killing the ranger. The cleric takes care of healing, pally tried to heal but cant. The duel is decided. Pallies should get maybe a stat enhancing weapon with vamparic (str and dex?), and a spells that shields the whole party with +10 armor. Thats all they need. Maybe a little more Berserker does berserk on first round vs. the ranger. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Mordakai on 05/24/03 at 10:07:32 Your posts are a load of bullnuts. You can't just make up a duel and expect people to listen to it, it has to be REAL. Not to mention the fact that rangers don't hit that amount of damage unless there spelled up, which they wouldn't be otherwise its cheating. I'm not even going to bother replying to all your other made up duels, as none of them are actually real, and there nothing like a real duel would be. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Dwaerkyn on 05/24/03 at 14:46:43 No, none of them are real, but taking what I know about the classes I can guess. Pallies can heal themselves up in about 3 stamina, which is what they're recharge is, but if they are vs. two, they won't last long. I know the duels probably wouldn't turn out the way they did, I failed to put in the misses. But still, a ranger + pally vs cleric + berserker? The cleric can heal zerker up pretty quick, and also can stat enhance him so he can do above the pallies max heal. So eventually, they would win. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Mordakai on 05/24/03 at 19:00:02 MAKE IT FAIR THEN! Make it a cleric and ranger vs a pally and ranger, its obvious the cleric and berserker are going to win, you've put the two best classes together! Sorry but your posts are bs, none of what you have said is true at all. How can you expect to prove how bad paladins are, by putting them in retarded situations? Edit: In fact, it wouldn't suprise me if the pally won, spell up the ranger and himself, then they both hit the same target (either cleric or ranger) at the same time, and the cleric/ranger dies. Probably wouldn't work that way though, as either class might get a bad round etc. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by -=Everglass=- on 05/25/03 at 10:41:11 ::) Stupid Stupid Stupid. Paladins are by far the best class in the game. Everglass is probs the best Arched pally too. He hits -all- the time with 28 dex. |
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Title: Re: Paladins???? Stinkers!!! Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/25/03 at 20:25:44 on 05/24/03 at 03:41:57, Dwaerkyn wrote:
or the ranger stam tricks the cleric rounding him... |
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