Nightmist Online Forum
        (http://www.nightmist-online.co.uk/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl)
      

        Nightmist Online - Please read the terms of use before posting here >> Discussion Forum >> Killing Noobs
        
(Message started by: Tienno on 01/16/04 at 14:47:52)
Title: Killing Noobs
Post by Tienno on 01/16/04 at 14:47:52
What are the chances of going back to being able to kill people no matter what level?

The reason i think it is better, disagree if you like, is that it spurs people onto being smarter when levelling and it inspires to get to level 30 quicker and therefore increase game time etc........

If this is too unfair why not make it you can hit within 15 levels of you as i think people ahve become too complacent.......... in days of old would a blood thirsty berserker have taken pity on a trainee??

Lemme know what you think
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Lich on 01/16/04 at 15:38:20
personally i agree with you. When i started I remember running out of town and getting cremed by a lvl 30 at lvl 10. But i also agree with the reasons the had for making it so. when you allow people to kill all lvls. people simply hide in the areanas and never explore the world that has been made for them. they dont lvl any faster in fact they go slower because now they are stuck with half exp.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Aidon on 01/16/04 at 16:00:11
I think maybe increasing the lvl that you can pk/be pked to 10 and leaving it at that.  Gives new players 10 levels to get to know the system, then they can start the realization that it is a pking world.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Harky on 01/16/04 at 16:16:33
I'd like to see something put into the game where people can't pk while having alts logged on - I don't expect this to go down very well with the majority of the players, but removing the level cap will just bring about large groups of level 30 alts slaughtering people that are fairly new to the game, which needless to say is retarded. It's also likely to deter people from playing, which I'd hope is the last thing any of you want. I can see the problem with events etc, if people must use alts for them - but maybe a new setting could be added to grid squares to allow people using alts to attack.

This may just be seen as a variation on the 'one alt limit', but it really isn't. People could still use multiple alts to help train their characters, and there would be no problem regarding switching equipment between characters - it would just stop people relying on alts for slaughtering innocents. Another problem would be if someone were to attack you while you're walking around with alts, but I'm sure there's a way to get around this.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by JLH on 01/16/04 at 16:37:05
an interesting idea, one option that springs to my mind is shared stamina, when you use a stamina on 1 of the alts, the rest of the alts all use a stamina too.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Authority on 01/16/04 at 16:41:57
ouchhhhh
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Oz on 01/16/04 at 16:48:36

on 01/16/04 at 16:37:05, JLH wrote:
an interesting idea, one option that springs to my mind is shared stamina, when you use a stamina on 1 of the alts, the rest of the alts all use a stamina too.


What's the point of having alt's logged on if your using the stamin of one? It's almost like having a 1 alt limit but with more open screens.

As far as the PK level limitations, Why do ya want to kill no0bs so bad? Is it because you cant handle crits in your own size bracket maybe?

We delt with no level restrictions before and had a limit set upon us. That's fine, but why go back a step so your higher level can kill someone not even close to being able to defend themself.

Next thing we know, people are going to be asking for staff powers so they can run arround PKing everyone/anyone. ::)
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Oracle on 01/16/04 at 17:51:10

on 01/16/04 at 16:48:36, Oz wrote:
What's the point of having alt's logged on if your using the stamin of one?


Maybe that is what JLH is trying to get at when it comes to pking, can't see it happening as you can only train 1 crit at once then though too.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by prodigy on 01/16/04 at 17:59:44
I believe current system is fine. Why fix what is not broken?
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Oracle on 01/16/04 at 18:28:55
Yeah, I should say, I think it is fine as it is.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Stotic on 01/16/04 at 19:24:05
Well some do regard it as "broken"
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by dognapot on 01/16/04 at 20:40:22
i'm all for the killing of lvl 1 and everybody. lets face it, we're not helping noobs. we're giving veterans mules. people get far more use out of noob protection through making a lvl 4 gold purse than anything else. of course this can be remedied by making it so that lvl 1-5 crits can only hold a maximum of X amount of gold (500 would be just fine). however, i'd rather that we just kill people's purses.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Stotic on 01/16/04 at 20:43:29
Simple idea here...How about a lower level can attack a higher level, but upon doing so that higher level can now attack the lower level until it dies or logs off.  This would just be simply adjusted with the current system.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by dognapot on 01/16/04 at 20:52:46
that defeats noob protection though because only a noob would be that stupid. it still leaves everything that is abused alone.

edit: furthermore, if one were to contend that a noob would learn through the process of attacking a higher level and then dying... then wouldn't there being no pk restrictions be a crash course in getting along in nightmist?
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Jurian on 01/16/04 at 20:55:33

on 01/16/04 at 20:43:29, Stotic wrote:
Simple idea here...How about a lower level can attack a higher level, but upon doing so that higher level can now attack the lower level until it dies or logs off.  This would just be simply adjusted with the current system.


i suggested the following: you cannot attack someone 10 lvl's lower then yourself. but if someone that is 10 lvls below you attacks you, you can attack the other guy. i think that's allmost the same as your idea :D
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Aidon on 01/16/04 at 21:16:50
I am rather fond of Hark's idea about only being able to pk with one crit on.  Would put a stop to people running around on mass alts, and to hit and runs. It would also allow for the regular use of alts for training.  Though there would have to be a rule about either not allowing to attack someone who has alts on because they cannot fight back, or the person with the alts being allowed to attack the person who attacked them.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Insomnia on 01/16/04 at 22:05:25

on 01/16/04 at 16:48:36, Oz wrote:
What's the point of having alt's logged on if your using the stamin of one? It's almost like having a 1 alt limit but with more open screens.

Actually, you'd have to think more about how to spend the stamina. Today all I see when people are fighting is a cleric casting righteous, 2 or 3 zerkers berserking, and cleric runs away (usually one step north/south where town gates are).

This thing could work out really good.. at least add some sort of strategy (which isn't the most common thing in NM today).
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by dognapot on 01/16/04 at 22:13:56
well if there's a defense for alts then it defeats the no pking restriction in the first place; parties are no more secure than they had been (because they can be attacked still), and an attackers judgement doesn't change when choosing prey. besides that it's too complicated to make. example:

three guys attack your party leader. does your party get to fight back? your leader is able to kill three people, but three people will kill him first. also, i can foresee parties disbanding before an attack like that too. because unless an entire party can retaliate for one person's injury, a rule like that would allow a person to single out crits and pk them one by one.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Eiements on 01/16/04 at 23:36:09
how about just keep the lvl 5 limit how they cant attack or be attacked untill lvl 5 after that the newbs are free game, cause i mean theres hardly ne pking with everyone running or just going to petes now a days
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Sera on 01/17/04 at 00:01:06

on 01/16/04 at 16:37:05, JLH wrote:
an interesting idea, one option that springs to my mind is shared stamina, when you use a stamina on 1 of the alts, the rest of the alts all use a stamina too.


The only drawback of this is, if you are training, you can only hit with one crit and then have to switch... wait for stam.. hit with the next. By the time you get to a healer, all yer crits are dead cause the monsters don't have to wait for stam.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Lavalamp And Seito on 01/17/04 at 00:19:49

on 01/17/04 at 00:01:06, Sera wrote:
The only drawback of this is, if you are training, you can only hit with one crit and then have to switch... wait for stam.. hit with the next. By the time you get to a healer, all yer crits are dead cause the monsters don't have to wait for stam.


maybe he means for pking only, if he means in general, thats prolly not a good idea anyway i think the 1stam thing is good, as long as training is not limited
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by CPG on 01/17/04 at 00:27:23
Harky's idea=teh win
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Tatsu on 01/17/04 at 00:46:04
hmmm well to me all these ideas seem a little...flawed  :-/

first of all, altho there used to be no pking limits, and you say that 'i trained through it, why dont people now have to do the same thing?', the fact is that there are a lot more people playing nightmist now, and it would be hell trying to train now if anyone can hit you. i remember when i was a newb, i almost quit because i couldent train anywhere without being pked: now i dont care wether i get pked or not, but back then it used to really annoy me. and no, you shouldent just make it so after lvl 5/10 u can get pked, i was still just as much a newb at these levels on my first crit as b4.

its all very well saying that it encourages you to explore and get better exp, but how can u explore when u cant train the crits up to be able to explore more than a few squares outside a city? ooo and imagine the rax  :o this would make many new players leave the game.

i think that using stam on all ur crits would be far from cool: one round and then u cant heal or anything....i just think it would make the game very boring /shrug

i personally have no problem with people pking in parties, can lead to some interesting fights, adds a bit of tactics here and there, i think this stamina system would actually have less tactics....one rapid fire and u cant do anything else.

i wouldent mind seeing a stop to hit and running tho, but i dont think this is the way forward  ;)
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Kazuya on 01/17/04 at 04:28:13

on 01/16/04 at 21:16:50, Aidon wrote:
I am rather fond of Hark's idea about only being able to pk with one crit on.  Would put a stop to people running around on mass alts, and to hit and runs. It would also allow for the regular use of alts for training.  Though there would have to be a rule about either not allowing to attack someone who has alts on because they cannot fight back, or the person with the alts being allowed to attack the person who attacked them.


It would also make bosses impossible to ever beat, unless ofcourse you get ya whole clan to log on 1 alts to do 1 boss. But how often do you see a clan with 10+ members (not crits) on all the time.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Matt on 01/17/04 at 04:38:05

on 01/17/04 at 04:28:13, Kazuya wrote:
It would also make bosses impossible to ever beat, unless ofcourse you get ya whole clan to log on 1 alts to do 1 boss. But how often do you see a clan with 10+ members (not crits) on all the time.


Why exactly do bosses have to be pking fests?

Seriously, let's all just get along.

Cheers to your idea Harky.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Limit on 01/17/04 at 04:41:20
Bring back old days where once your lvl 5 your on your own... pkers will pk, people will die tough chit.... only way to get good is to get use to it.... by changing the way things go it changes the way people play... if you dont get that dieing experience when your lil youll get it when it hurts most  ;D
You dont see too many of the old players that bad off do ya? We all did just fine.. i think everyone should share the same experiences we did... hell my first crit i got enough exp to lvl it to 11 before actually lvling up to 5 and past.

Old Nightmist  ;D
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by ElDiAbLo on 01/17/04 at 05:13:59
I member having my level 20 thief with 250mil exp ;D. Old, but not prereset.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Rattlesnake on 01/17/04 at 05:46:17
I remember being killed a lot as a lil 'un... It made me learn how to run really fast. Now days I see these people lvl 15 that don't know their way to RH w/o a map.. * sighs.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Limit on 01/17/04 at 05:54:07
People learn quicker out of fear  :o which is why i think the lvl cap isnt as good.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 06:18:10
I don't really see the point in the whole pking with only one crit.  How do you kill a party of 8 with only one attacker?  If that were the case why not just take PKing out of the game.  I don't think the idea of PKing ought to really be sitting at southgate house and hitting one another, that is fighting.  PKing is hunting around for players to kill.  It doesn't make sense to me how using stam on one of your crits does anything for all of them.

I don't see hit and runs much anymore, everyone is being gay and sitting in the place over boars tusk now.

I don't see the whole killing anything over level 5 would work anymore, there are simply far too many more people who would be hunting around for that to be acceptable anymore, but to take away my ability to kill off a big party of training crits should be taken away.

If you were to make it so that a player can only pk on one alt, that just means people are going to run around with arch zerkers, a cleric, and a mage- spell up, and pick off one crit of a training party.  What is the point in doing that?


Either take it out of game completely, leave it how it is, or alter it slightly, but limiting it to one crit can hit doesn't make sense at all to me.  I thought we were not trying to make training easy?
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Stotic on 01/17/04 at 06:38:07
We're trying to make pking not easy.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by dognapot on 01/17/04 at 06:43:15
the only problem with the 'only one alt can pk' thing is how some little things will make it's efforts in vain.

logging off crits would be the first thing. imagine you have a nice party going, several thieves and a cleric. you see your target sitting unaware, and quickly spell up your favorite murderer and log the rest off before attacking. that's a no-no. you would have some sort of protection from danger because of being under a pk restriction, and you would be using it to get a better first round.

then there's what kind of defense should a party have? harky had a good idea but i just can't see it making the kind of difference nightmist needs. parties would have to have some kind of protection from pkers if they can't fend them off, but the protection can't be great enough to be abused for even less skillfull pk's. even then, what the hell kind of sense does pk restrictions even make? it applies an ethical rule on a bunch of cheating murderers.

maybe i see things through differently shaded lenses, but the problem with pulling it off here is alts. it's no surprise to anyone who reads the crap i post here, but i believe it really is time for nightmist to have an individual oriented sister-server.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 07:33:39
Making PKing difficult...hmm...why not make the level restriction on pking decline as you move further from town.  Start it was they must not be 5 levels or less below you and as you get further from town it increases.  So on 2nd floor of zeum you could hit anything of any level, same with Desert.

I'm not saying it moves lvl by lvl, something like it goes by 5s, and this would solve the problem of lower levels training and being wiped out because forest is very close to town and stuff.  It would also keep people from having gold crits of low level.



...please read this, it may be the most intelligent thing i've posted in months.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 07:48:13

on 01/17/04 at 06:38:07, wrote:
We're trying to make pking not easy.


I think that should mean the area above Boar's Tusk should be removed, or modified to count deaths because that is a huge way of making PKing easier than anything.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Limit on 01/17/04 at 08:09:56
A good reason this games lost alot of its potential is the set difficulty for pking. You can rarely find a good pk anywhere anymore. Alot of people play for the thrill of pking.. take that away and theres not really much a point to it.... You play to get strong, you get strong to kill.. if you cannot kill.... whats the point? I myself would have nothing to do w/the game if pking was taken out of it.... just about the only thing that can get me moving anymore... and thats a rarity.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Tienno on 01/17/04 at 09:37:11
i FEEL IVE OPENED A CAN OF WORMS HERE LOADS THINK SOMETHING NEEDS DOING BUT ALSO LOADS THINK NOTHING NEEDS DOING........

I LIKE SOME OF THE IDEAS SUGGESTED I ESPECIALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF IF PROVOKED FIRST U CAN HIT THEM BACK AS THAT WOULD KEEP IT OPEN TO CHANCE AND NOT PKING
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Eternyte on 01/17/04 at 11:40:42
A few points. We are talking about 'alts', not parties of 5 different people using 1 crit each.

Possibly the shared stamina would only be PvP, and not PvM.

Maybe even a single alt rule could be introduced. Which personally I see as the best possible way forward for Nightmist. Then allow Pkin at any level after 5.

There are far too many arches in the game anyway, a reset would be the best idea then restart with this new update.

Bosses have been upped in hp/dmg because of the mass of alts that destroy them, if an alt rule was implemented they would obviously be reduced, it's hardly rocket science. At the moment the game is far to easy.

As spoken numerous times before, Harky and others have said that there was maybe 30 arches after a year pre-reset. There are 785 approx arches in the game now. Which is obscene.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Zephie on 01/17/04 at 12:20:36
Eternyte- why would you compare the amount of lvl 30s back then and the amount of lvl 30s now..of course there's more now..look at the userbase! I honestly don't see how a 1 alt limit would better the game. Maybe that's just because I actually train my characters to -use- them rather than just letting them lie around. If the 1 alt system was ever actually put in I think dognapot's idea of having a sister server would be a good idea..I'm sure there are plently of people who would like to play the game just as it is now.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Detheroc on 01/17/04 at 12:56:57

on 01/17/04 at 12:20:36, Zephie wrote:
Maybe that's just because I actually train my characters to -use- them rather than just letting them lie around.


He also suggested that a reset would fit in best with the 1 alt idea, which is true. With a 1 alt limit you'd have to be pretty stupid to train up more than one character, and then complain about only being able to use one at a time.

I agree fully with what Eternyte said. Nightmist is just too easy at the moment.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Stigmata on 01/17/04 at 15:27:33
The problem everyone seems to be overlooking (even the staff...) is that this version of the game is designed for alts. It may not have been intentional but it happened.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 16:42:04
-nod-

A ton more users = a ton more crits     That isn't anything difficult to understand.


I think a reset may cause a lot of people to quit, I know I wouldn't be around.


Making the areas change with distance from town and difficulty seems fair to me- it solves 2 "problems", picking on low lvls, and having people carry around lvl4 crits for purses.

Make the forest have people need to be within maybe 5 levels, to keep low levels safe because a level 5 mage doesn't stand much more of surviving a lvl 15 fighter than an arch one.

Then the desert and zeum any level can PK any level---prevents purses, or high levels running around with one low lvl that you cannot hit and such.


I've personally never cared about PK counts on my crits much---death counts though.  It doesn't matter much to me that i cant hit anything i see in forest as it is, although i would like to be able to do like back in the day just so i could get the pages like the ones i used to send.

To make it where only one alt could hit another party doesn't work in my mind because you're simply making it so that training is a hell of a lot easier.  Why would you want to take the fighting out of nightmist?  That's the only thing left in the game for some of us, and would make most of our crits useless because bosses aren't around all the time for us to go hit.

Arches...why would you ever use them anymore?  I only take crits that need exp to bosses usually, and that would make training a crit to arch like dooming it to sit its ass in our account never to log on again.



I don't see how this being put in the game would improve anything at all.  So I guess I'll stop listing the bad things that are my opinion, and try to see the other side-
What does making PKing limited to one alt fix?
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Eternyte on 01/17/04 at 16:59:22
If you would quit then fine, just shows your loyalty to the game which is not needed.

The exact same things were said about the last reset, however there was a massive influx of players. Also I think more people would play as there would be a shift in the powers of Nightmist, with newer players on par with older players which is better for the game.

I would love to see two severs up a running, perhaps the old Nightmist can be set up and restricted to 1 alt, whereas this new sever is open to as many alts as you wish to log on.

Obviously more players equals more arches, however the game is just too easy. Just look at Jen/Kalypso (possibly most known person in game, so good for examples) but she has 30mil gold+ and 31 Arches+, is this the sign of a difficult game?

Ebony and Anthrax were the best players pre-reset who possibly had 4 arches, and a max of 5mil gold. Like already mentioned more players = more arches, but not when individual players have 20 arches each.

Granted people didn't really log on more than maybe 2 alts pre-reset, but in recent times it's just been abused into the quest for power. Which ruins the game.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Detheroc on 01/17/04 at 17:15:36

on 01/17/04 at 16:59:22, Eternyte wrote:
Ebony and Anthrax were the best players pre-reset who possibly had 4 arches, and a max of 5mil gold.


They had more than 4 archies I think... I'm also pretty sure I remember Anthrax buying a cobalt staff.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Haunted on 01/17/04 at 17:15:45

on 01/17/04 at 16:59:22, Eternyte wrote:
Obviously more players equals more arches, however the game is just too easy. Just look at Jen/Kalypso (possibly most known person in game, so good for examples) but she has 30mil gold+ and 31 Arches+, is this the sign of a difficult game?


Not to mention how much she was given..
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 17:26:14
So every time people get powerful in game it requires a reset of the game?

Every post i've seen requesting a reset has been by a new player saying to even them out with old players. (also they've all been locked) Train and nuts if you want to be even with the old players.

I've played for a little over 1 year now, and i can garauntee you a good fight to anyone in game.  Can get boss drops.  Can make gold if i want to, and have gold to spend.  You play for a while and you get even with old players, you don't start the game over.

It does not take that long to get a good acct. going if you simply play the game for 6 months or so, and saying that that is asking too much of a new player does not make any sense to me, that is like saying the game is too hard...the opposite of what you keep preaching.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Detheroc on 01/17/04 at 17:28:42

on 01/17/04 at 17:26:14, Everlast wrote:
Every post i've seen requesting a reset has been by a new player saying to even them out with old players. (also they've all been locked) Train and nuts if you want to be even with the old players.


Hmm, Eternyte is NOT a new player, and, in my opinion at least, he's better than you.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Eternyte on 01/17/04 at 17:29:02
Thank you for proving my point. The game is too easy, and doesn't provide a challenge.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Jurian on 01/17/04 at 17:29:29
i agree there, when i came back on nm some of the stronger players had 10+ archies and i had 0. i got killed by half of tr. now i just trained alot and i think i can consider myself a powerfull player :D
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Shera on 01/17/04 at 17:37:37

on 01/17/04 at 17:29:02, Eternyte wrote:
Thank you for proving my point. The game is too easy, and doesn't provide a challenge.

If it doesnt challenge you maybe  you need to do something different in it.  I mean take a  bunch of lvl 5's by themselves to the desert and try and train them.  I bet that would be a challenge. ;)
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Haunted on 01/17/04 at 17:39:55
Isn't what he means though is it ..duh
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Shera on 01/17/04 at 17:44:25

on 01/17/04 at 17:39:55, Haunted wrote:
Isn't what he means though is it ..duh

Maybe not but what I meant by it is that maybe instead of waiting for the powers that be in nm to make stuff more challenging for us, we should challenge ourselves first.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Jurian on 01/17/04 at 18:38:01

on 01/17/04 at 17:37:37, Shera wrote:
I mean take a  bunch of lvl 5's by themselves to the desert and try and train them.  I bet that would be a challenge. ;)


actually that's quite easy :D i take anything with more then 70 hp to desert :D
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 18:50:22

on 01/17/04 at 17:28:42, Detheroc wrote:
Hmm, Eternyte is NOT a new player, and, in my opinion at least, he's better than you.


I know who Eternyte is thank you.  There is no where in there that i say he's a new player, i said his idea resembles the idea that i've seen many new players post because they're too lazy to train and think they're helpless.

Now maybe you i dont know, but i consider you a noob weather you're new or not, just because i dont like you.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 18:51:51

on 01/17/04 at 17:44:25, Shera wrote:
Maybe not but what I meant by it is that maybe instead of waiting for the powers that be in nm to make stuff more challenging for us, we should challenge ourselves first.


exactly.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Shera on 01/17/04 at 18:52:04

on 01/17/04 at 18:38:01, Jurian wrote:
actually that's quite easy :D i take anything with more then 70 hp to desert :D

Yes but you do you take them there without any higher lvls, without any healers, and without dying?  ;)
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Lich on 01/17/04 at 18:53:05
Yes he does actually ..lol..
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by alone on 01/17/04 at 18:53:52

on 01/17/04 at 18:50:22, Everlast wrote:
Now maybe you i dont know, but i consider you a noob weather you're new or not, just because i dont like you.


Haha, love the logic :D


I've seen before the idea Harky said, and I think it's a good idea. Except I can see it being abused.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 19:00:11

on 01/17/04 at 17:29:02, Eternyte wrote:
Thank you for proving my point. The game is too easy, and doesn't provide a challenge.


lol, 6 months of training in a game isn't challenging?  Sounds like it is a hell of a lot harder than any other games i play.

How do you make this game harder?  You cannot do like diablo 2 and have warps and such leading to different areas where low lvls cannot go to make it harder, you cant make monsters stronger every time a person logs on.

Resetting the game doesn't make it more challenging, it just puts people back to square one.

One alt limit doesn't make the game that much harder in all truth, just means that it takes longer or you have to group with more people, basically means a lot more stress and annoyances, people would fight a lot, too.



Eternyte, I don't know you much in game, and I don't have anything against you, but I completely disagree with what you think will improve the game.  

I think more space in game and harder areas like the jungle should be added, to make it so even if you've got mass alts high levels, it is still too hard to be doing it and eating at the same time.  It would open up more space for people to train and play without being harrassed, and it would give people who do have the crits needed to still have stuff to do that isn't old and starting to be a bore.



(sorry for the multiple posts, but ya...)
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Harky on 01/17/04 at 20:19:47
I must admit I'm in shock at the fact some posts have constructive criticism instead of just complaining about loss of power, which is what's happened whenever I've suggested something like a one alt limit. I can see some valid problems with my original suggestion, but the amount of people posting defending it along with similar ideas proves that there's something wrong with the current system - I'm sure some measures can be taken to stop abuse of what I suggested with a little discussion. I don't expect everyone to be happy, nothing that happens in this game will ever make everyone happy, but I believe the game has hit a point where something needs to be changed or it's simply going to continue degrading until the game simply isn't worth playing anymore.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Everlast on 01/17/04 at 20:31:55
The current system only frustrates me when i hit a party of crits that i cant hit, and they've got 2-3 crits that are too low for my crits that hold gold and pick up their pot/mana.  I think groups highest level should be taken into consideration.  Like if you're in a party with high level crits then you're not some brand new player that deserves to be safe from everything.

I dont think having a low lvl purse is fair, and i dont think killing a new player over and over is right, worth it, nor does it help either of you at all.  You can get gold or pay back on other people who're training, but off a low lvl that doesn't do anything, it doesnt seem right to just sit there to kill them.


I still think my idea of area's having different levels that you could pk makes sense and would be fair, for everyone even.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Id on 01/17/04 at 23:12:43
just a comment...With the amount of people using an army of alts, this is no longer a rpg but rather a strategy game.  People don't even bother with the game play and getting into character anymore.  All they care about is power, the ability to decimate the enemy fast...
  What happened to the old study-your-target and the making-plan(s)-to-your-crit-more-efficiently ?  Nowadays people don't even bother with that, they just use more and more crits.  The 'spirit' of this rpg game changed.  Players turn into lazy snobs.  Ok, calling players lazy snobs might be offensive, BUT all they want is power without having to makings any plans and/or improving their skill (this had been proven by the amount of people clicking themself on pacifist then whine about it.  Why? Because they're too lazy that's why! They are so lazy that they did not even bother with studying the target before attack.  They didn't even look over or doing a /who <target>.  This is simply because they are so used to having so many crit and not bothering with who or what they're attacking -which they should-).  How can a player improve their skill/getting into character by playing a bunch of different crits rather than just one?
   Some of you might whine: "How are we supposed to pk 8 crit when we only have 1?...blah blah blah"  Well, that's the point!  One single player isn't meanth to kill 8 other players!  Unless that single player is really powerful.  Which mean that player had to take every aspects of the game into plan before the first strike.  Who's the healer? Any monster around? What level are the targets? Do they have enough pot? When would be the best time to strike? Which way to escape if the attack fail?! These are what rpging all about.  Through the process, players become experienced.  Some more than others.  No, the crit they play does not becoming more powerful, but it's the way they play it!
    I see players walking around calling other noobs based on the low level character and/or how the little number of  areas that player know.  Well, being an expert does not come falling from the sky, or by knowing all the maps or owning all the powerful items or owning a bunch of archies.  NO!  Being an expert means how well can that player Use the character properly.  How he/she can use the crit's advantage or disadvantage to survive around the game -then maybe a little pking too if he/she got the time-.  Littles things like knowing how to save 1 stam to run when getting hit by the other, more powerful, players...or waiting for the right time to strike when the target get hit by a monster (and forgot to heal ) ...or even hit and run...that's what separate a good player from a newb.  THAT is what turn a player into an expert no matter what kind of crit he/she owns or what level it is.
Then there's the clan, joinning a clan means to help yourself and help other.  Now people can just log on a bunch of alts.  Then they use clan just to chat and discuss on how to buy new clan house by making new tax or just to show off on how they're in the #1 or even in the top 10 clans.  What make a good clan does not mean the size of the clan house (that only make the clan the richest clan) or the large number of player joined, but it's how well the members connect AND how well they use all the advantages provided by the number of players are on line  AND how to save the money to help others rather than to build a big castle as a clan house (which provides no special bonus on game play).  In short..how to become-one...sounded a bit far fetch - I know  :D
---------Anyway, this went on a bit longer than I expected.  Hope I did not bored you----------------------------------
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Id on 01/17/04 at 23:15:33
oh and last words:  Bring back the rpg fashion!! The power is in your hand, the players!!  Not in the staff so stop bothering them on making new changes or how to improve the game into your advantage.  

Uncover your eyes.  Stop being blinded by power.  ;D ;D

-Have a nice day-
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Terrier on 01/17/04 at 23:19:40
thank you id.
i think nm was better when i first joined a few years ago
an achmaster ment something back then , and didn't die so fast...now they die like rabbits(clicked) :'(
i mostly blaim the rf from the clerics
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Jurian on 01/18/04 at 20:30:09
well didn't read all replies but hmm.

i was thinking about something why not just make it taht you can pk someone 10 lvl's below or above you but when the person is more then 10 lvls from you he/she just doesn't lose exp and items?

or........... if you pk a perosn that's not within 10 lvls the pk'er loses exp and not the pk'ed person?

just thoughts :D
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Tienno on 01/19/04 at 12:14:41
When i started this thread i really didnt realise it would cause this much response. Im sure the staff are using this dicussion productively.

Id just like to conclude my own thoughts


1) Some great suggestions in here
2) Pking lower levels but losing exp or hp i think is a good idea
3) Limiting alts i dont think will work. The game has done exactly what human nature would percieve it will do.......Evolve. Life isnt the same as before, it is harder people do hunt in packs and that should be a great credit to everyone involved for one reason alone. Their strive to be the best has made thos who were the best up their game and so on and so forth til we end up with characters who own 31 arches and have millions in the bank. To those i say well done they have grasped the game well and have proved that above all they have self preservation and have given themselves the best possible shot at anything that comes their way and this is probably why these people become staff ie Zephie, Harky etc etc.
4) Seperate servers i think is a bad idea as it creates more strain on JLH of a zero budget anyway. Plus he would need extra staff and more burden on chosing those who are capable of holding the position and running jlh and panilex's game for them in their absence.

The way forward is change........ all change is good, some may not seem it but in the end it creates for a shift in power usually to others who didnt shine before. That my friend is Evolution....... I say bring on the Revolution.

Heres another idea to throw around guys..........

How about another 5-10 levels?? A new Honor role ie expert master archmaster and maybe Sensei???

Have another goal to aim for and increase it that way, the thing it seems to me that these people have a problem is that they have nothing to strive for.

Maybe have a new skill when you reach Sensei...... Honor killings, Have the skill 'Honor Kill' which adds one stamina to your total and obviously causes more damage. eg My thief has 5 attacks if i had Honor Kill Id have 6x<chance to hit calculations as normal apply> which minus the armour etc as usualy would give usually a higher damage. However make it 20% longer recovery time so not to cause too much imbalance maybe?? or leave it the same to give Sensei's an edge.

Let me know what you think.

I still think being able to kill all levels toughens people up but maybe have it cannot attack till provoked like suggested.



Tienno
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Deval on 01/20/04 at 02:55:41
Someone mentioned that the only reason people are in clans these days is for clan chat. ::TRUE:: Clans when they were first introduced were designed in a way, that would allow players to congolmerate their abilities, in order to achieve a greater goal. In Nightmist these days, all you need is a handful of alts, and you have all the power, all the individual skills and abilities you require. Hell, on your own you can take out other entire clans if you feel like it, and that is just sh!t. I can't express the sh!tnss of it, I've even been reduced to getting around language filters due to the sh!tness of it. I am more than appreciative of Harkys, Eternytes, and a handful of others ideas. 1 alt limit for pk'ing? Hell yes! So there are problems, Harkster himself admitted, it. There are ways around such problems with appropraite discussion, with mediation by staff of these discussions. People protested a sister server due to the need to find staff for it. I know for a fact there would be LOADS of people who would apply for it, myself included. I want to test the individual strengths of my characters against others, not my ability to survive 18 clicks in succession, or test my ability against whoever can alt + tab and click the fastest. *UGH sh!tness!*

Why are there individual classes? Why are there individual races? Why do they have their own skills and abilities? Seriously. No seriously f'king ask yourself. Why do we have them? We don't need them, we have access to every single skill in the game with specified race and class anyway so who needs them? It doesn't make sense does it? Oh sweet mother of sh!tness.

Jesus Christ I can't get over the sh!tness.
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Tienno on 01/20/04 at 11:17:48
well someones pi$$ed! Classes i believe are there because its a multiracial world of fantasy where orcs etc co exist. Classes again are there because not everyone is the same. Skills are different and i agree there should be certain skills people cant do that they can at the moment but certain classes i dont think can be certain races but some alteration may be in need.

I know people are bored of this game and maybe because i dont play so much i dont get bored like you guys but personally i think the game is good and i like it. There is always something i strive for and something new as a goal i want to achieve.

I wont leave, i wont post im quitting, i wont slag off the game because i dont think its nutse. If things need changing then ill suggest the changes, i wont flame.......... maybe the game is designed for people like me in mind that take the game with a pinch of salt as a hobby not a way of life but who also think that they want the best outta the game......... I only want the best for JLH mainly and myself because its JLH who gets the hassle and me who wants to play it........ NOW PLAY NICELY or suggest things that would help others and not just create financial gain for yourselves people.

As for the sister server i disagree i personally think it will cause strain on JLH's machines even more plus if more people want a single alt server like the good old days then the vote should happen and if thats what the masses decide then the whole game should go to one character. Personally i dont think it needs it, if people log on ten alts and go round killin then sure as hell someone else will log on ten alts and pimp slap their as$ and even the score up. Life is a power struggle and a balancing out kinda thing and Nightmist is nothing different

Tienno


xxxxxxx


sorry another long post
Title: Re: Killing Noobs
Post by Deval on 01/20/04 at 23:51:14
I seriously don't mean any offence Tienno, but it appears to me that your a little out of touch with the game.

I once again URGE people to read my post, and seriously think about the questions I presented in my statement.


on 01/20/04 at 02:55:41, Deval wrote:
Someone mentioned that the only reason people are in clans these days is for clan chat. ::TRUE:: Clans when they were first introduced were designed in a way, that would allow players to congolmerate their abilities, in order to achieve a greater goal. In Nightmist these days, all you need is a handful of alts, and you have all the power, all the individual skills and abilities you require. Hell, on your own you can take out other entire clans if you feel like it, and that is just sh!t. I can't express the sh!tnss of it, I've even been reduced to getting around language filters due to the sh!tness of it. I am more than appreciative of Harkys, Eternytes, and a handful of others ideas. 1 alt limit for pk'ing? Hell yes! So there are problems, Harkster himself admitted, it. There are ways around such problems with appropraite discussion, with mediation by staff of these discussions. People protested a sister server due to the need to find staff for it. I know for a fact there would be LOADS of people who would apply for it, myself included. I want to test the individual strengths of my characters against others, not my ability to survive 18 clicks in succession, or test my ability against whoever can alt + tab and click the fastest. *UGH sh!tness!*

Why are there individual classes? Why are there individual races? Why do they have their own skills and abilities? Seriously. No seriously f'king ask yourself. Why do we have them? We don't need them, we have access to every single skill in the game with specified race and class anyway so who needs them? It doesn't make sense does it? Oh sweet mother of sh!tness.

Jesus Christ I can't get over the sh!tness.



In less vehement terms:

  • Why do we have races with individual statistics, when we can log on a crit of every race anyway?

  • Why do we have classes available to only certain races, when we can just log on a load of crits of every race that we need?

  • Why do we have classes with individual skills, when we can log on any number of crits to access all the skills in the game?

  • Why do we have clans, when our alts function as the way clans were initally intended to?


!!!!ASK YOURSELF - STAFF INCLUSIVE!!!!!

It's just not commonsense.


Nightmist Online Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.