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Title: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/01/04 at 19:12:38 If the Nightmist client were to be re-written in Microsoft .NET, would this cause any problems to you? The reason I ask is that in order to run any program written in .NET you need to have the Microsoft .NET Framework installed on your computer. It's about a 20mb download. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/01/04 at 19:27:10 it's a tiny download and doesn't it come with xp allready? i remember downloading it with me for something but didn't need to downlaod it with xp. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/01/04 at 19:29:42 version 1.0 comes with xp, the current MS download is 1.1 i think |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Momba on 01/01/04 at 20:28:48 I don't believe it would cause any problem. What are the benifits/downsides to rewritting in Microsoft.net? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Lavalamp And Seito on 01/01/04 at 21:56:04 if i even knew what he ment by "re written in ms.net" id know.. whats a framework? lol god im noobish |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/01/04 at 22:35:11 on 01/01/04 at 21:56:04, Lavalamp And Seito wrote:
on 01/01/04 at 19:12:38, Pandilex wrote:
Just means you need to install the .NET Framework, which is like DirectX, just an application that is used to run programs written with the .NET framework. The advantages of this means that I can write the client myself, taking some of the burden of programming from JLH, and that since its an object oriented language, I can add lots of nice features. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Vodka on 01/01/04 at 23:41:19 Well, if all we have to do is install it... and you're able to help out more.. then I'm all for it. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Authority on 01/01/04 at 23:52:46 Cant you just make the .NET framework download with Nightmist? Either way the change would be for the better so the small extra download would be fine. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Lavalamp And Seito on 01/02/04 at 02:18:08 well im all for it, as ong as JLH will let you do it, its cool :) wootage for MSN for once ;) |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Stotic on 01/02/04 at 02:45:22 How exactly will it coexist alongside the nightmist client? Would we notice any design changes, etc.? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Kalel on 01/02/04 at 03:13:03 I think this would be a great Idea :) |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/02/04 at 07:49:20 on 01/02/04 at 02:45:22, Stotic wrote:
I'll be enlisting the help of probably Isyng as he's been the most valuable person in aiding the development of nightmist since he was first invovled, and he seems willing to help. The plan is to produce a much more aesthetically pleasing client that fits more in with the theme, with better access to stats, inventory and with new and more useful features. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/02/04 at 07:53:22 on 01/02/04 at 07:49:20, Pandilex wrote:
what's wrong with the current one? don't mind if you make a better one but the current one works just fine for me :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Cosworth on 01/02/04 at 07:59:07 on 01/02/04 at 07:49:20, Pandilex wrote:
Would this mean under going a reset? or would the game stay as it is justnow and just the cleint being changed or is this a way of the game changing and changing the balance of the game without directly saying that it will be in for alot of change? what im asking i guess is with changing to the .NET Framework will the game have to under go a reset for this to happen? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/02/04 at 08:00:11 Its just lines and numbers, it's not aesthetically pleasing at all, even with the various skins. think of any game you've played, like Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate as a prime example - how do their menus look? :-p No reset. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/02/04 at 08:02:58 i'd say 3d games require 3d clients and since this isn't 3d a text based client would be enough. lol don't get me wrong i sure don't mind having a better client but i don't have any problems with the current client :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Cosworth on 01/02/04 at 08:04:49 Well if its no reset im down for anything that will make the game better NWN has a nice layout So the game could prgress onto 3D imaging at somepoint then if swapped over onto .NET Framwork Would it allow 3D imaging capabilitys along the lines of D2 and NWN from a devolopment point of view? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/02/04 at 08:11:55 I'm not going to fiddle with 3d imaging for Nightmist as a 2d client, it is too much effort for little return. It's important to capture the attention of new players, and a more friendly, easy to use and visually pleasing client will make that more possible. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Cosworth on 01/02/04 at 08:16:04 yes but would .NET Framework allow 3D imaging if devolped further could it be made to 3D someday thought using it? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/02/04 at 08:19:17 on 01/02/04 at 08:16:04, Cosworth wrote:
i think it would. anyway how long would recreating the client take? is it worth the time? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/02/04 at 08:35:09 on 01/02/04 at 08:16:04, Cosworth wrote:
Heheheh yep. on 01/02/04 at 08:19:17, Jurian wrote:
It's probably worth it in terms of making it easier to use, so less people leave the game because they find it too complicated. It will take a while to develop I imagine but it should offer some nifty features when it is done. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by alone on 01/02/04 at 14:38:15 And in the time it'd take to develop, the client, as it is now, would continue to run? Correct? If so, all sounds good to me :) And also, what will the restrictions on the number of windows able to run, be? Same as is now, just limited by our machine. Or will there be some other limitation? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/02/04 at 16:34:23 on 01/02/04 at 14:38:15, alone wrote:
don't quote me on this but from my knowledge on computer programs like this nm will just be able to run with the old client while pandi makes the other one. we'll just need to download the new client at some point. limitations on amount of crits should be set in the programming and a new client should not affect it since it's mainly static which does not require alot of computer power :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Mephistroth on 01/02/04 at 16:38:11 Sounds good to me. A lot of players do end up leaving because the client looks a little... ropey. I'm also happy to download any new files I might need. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/02/04 at 22:38:10 i have done some reading up on the microsoft site, .net framework does not run on windows 95, but i doubt that is a big problem these days. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Mission on 01/02/04 at 22:44:52 i'm such a noob. someone tell me, exactly what is the client? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/02/04 at 22:57:41 the game that you download is called the client the part that runs on my pc is called the server |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Stotic on 01/02/04 at 22:59:36 If you're running XP you'll become aware of the .NET system Microsoft is putting everywhere. Read up, Pandilex explained basically what it is. To people like us, it's just code. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Mission on 01/02/04 at 23:02:22 i'm only running 98. what i'm asking though, is why are people saying the client looks a bit 'ropey'? the client looks just fine to me, but i'm all for adding this new suggestion. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Wolfvirus81 on 01/02/04 at 23:19:16 My question is, is the .NET framework free? I have windows xp home edition, I set my computer so that everytime microsoft brings out a new update I just have to download it from the lil earth icon I get near my clock. Will the .NET framework already come from the next update that microsoft puts out if so I may already have it. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/02/04 at 23:28:13 it has been out for a good year now at least |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Wolfvirus81 on 01/02/04 at 23:57:07 Where do I go and download it or install it? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/03/04 at 00:09:01 windowsupdate.microsoft.com |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by ElDiAbLo on 01/03/04 at 01:09:47 This might cause a problem for me. 20 megs will take me about 10 hours to download. <<<Runs 56k modem :-/ And how do I know if I have this or not? Just do the scan for comp thingy on the site? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by ElDiAbLo on 01/03/04 at 01:14:53 Windows Update has found 20 critical updates for your computer. ROFL!!!! Also I still don't know what thing to download is... Could I talk to a staffer ingame please? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Wolfvirus81 on 01/03/04 at 02:02:19 There are no critical updates available at this time. If I download the .NET Framework 'NOW' will I still be able to play NightMist normally? Should I wait for pandi to completely carry out this plan of his before I download and install this? I play other games, not RPG's, but other online games like, df2,tfd and cs. Will this download cause any problems with my other games that I play? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Kalel on 01/03/04 at 02:13:34 1. yes its free 2. if you want to see if you don't have it go to the windows update site it will tell u what u have installed as far as there updates go and what you need... 3. I'm sorry ur on 56k the best way to get this is to find some one who can send it to u on a mesanger like msn or pal talk it gose a little quicker or I can throw it up on my server or perhaps JLH can add it to his as well that might be a little faster here is microsofts download link for the .net http://download.microsoft.com/download/a/a/c/aac39226-8825-44ce-90e3-bf8203e74006/dotnetfx.exe |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/03/04 at 02:35:39 you are not allowed to mirror microsoft downloads on your own server. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Sausage on 01/03/04 at 04:41:39 As long as both the current client and the .NET client would both work on the same server, it sounds good to me. Is that possible? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/03/04 at 08:18:35 .NET Framework isn't a critical update, it comes under the other category. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Stotic on 01/03/04 at 08:20:15 I believe it's intergrated with Microsoft Messenger. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by CPG on 01/03/04 at 08:21:48 Not sure if Sausage just asked but... Would we still be able to use the old client? It seems like it would run faster, be more compatible, and take far less space. Also, I don't really like putting more Microsoft stuff on my computer. With their plans for overseeing users, i'm not too keen on it. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/03/04 at 08:22:41 on 01/03/04 at 08:21:48, CPG wrote:
Maybe, but it is unlikely. The new client would bring more advanced features and a better layout, and you'd be missing out on these if you did not upgrade. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/03/04 at 09:39:13 i don't know what the fuss is about at the moment. no offence to anyone but i think it'll take atleast 6 months or a eyar before we get the new client lol so don't get all jumpy about the download being too big. i don't even think the decision to make it is final yet? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Stigmata on 01/03/04 at 11:22:59 Pandilex, I've seen you post things like this for years..... What makes this new project of yours different to anything else you plan to develop? I can't count the number of times you've promised to do something, only to put it off and never do it, most of the time without actually letting anyone know. I'm still waiting for the clan moshes you announced a while ago on the announcements forum (which I had to run myself in the end!) and I just can't wait to finally take up your challenge and go into Inquisitor's tower or start a fresh character on opal spheres! The list is endless. I'm not trying to be nasty or anything, it's just it really pisses people off when you promise something, hype it up with all your amazing ideas, only to get lazy and ignore the idea completely. I mean, when exactly did you let people know that Inquisitor's tower wasn't actually going to be made........and as for that devastate area you were working on when I was staff - well.......where is it? I'm starting to querey what annoys me more.....being bored on nightmist with nothing to do or hearing about new and exciting ideas that would make the worth playing, only to be let down and ignored. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Prophet on 01/03/04 at 11:50:27 on 01/01/04 at 22:35:11, Pandilex wrote:
Is it basically the same as Vb 6.0? Or is the language totally different. On vb 6.0 i tried to use object orientatetd but failed coz it was quite difficult, so just resorted to types in the end lol. by OOP(object orientated Programming you mean like : Prophet.Hp and so on or something tottally differnet i never heard of before. lol) |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/03/04 at 12:28:49 on 01/03/04 at 11:50:27, Prophet wrote:
It's nothing like VB 6.0 - Object Oriented Programming means you can create and manipulate objects, give them methods and variables, effectively created from an initial template (For example, you could have a "Cat" object, and then make 5 cats with different names, based on that object. It is considerably more powerful, as it allows you to achieve things that are not possible in visual basic (for example, you can run two or more processes simultaneously using threads). on 01/03/04 at 11:22:59, Stigmata wrote:
About 90% of the ideas in this game came from me, so it seems I do put quite a bit in. However JLH can only program so fast, and therefore I'm often left waiting for features I need to do future things. Some areas haven't been put in because they'd unbalance the game, and in the case of Inquisitor's Tower, I did a couple of floors then posted in the development forum with the idea of other staff completing a floor each. They were always too busy with other projects, so the idea was eventually put on ice. As for non-nightmist projects, I am always developing something, however the advances in technology have meant that I've been too busy trying to stay ahead with the latest tools, meaning various rewrites of things I've done. As a result of posts like yours, things I do now I no longer speak about publicly. This means people don't get to see what is coming up in the future, simply because of the number of complaints (and the whole "I want I want" attitude). My agenda does not coincide with yours, or anyone elses for that matter. Many of the things I do, I do for reasons of my own that only concern you indirectly. There are plenty of decisions that give me nothing but constant grief, yet achieve the exact purpose (which invariably benefits you as the end consumer) they were put in for. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/03/04 at 13:05:12 isn't java object orientated? why not make a java client? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Prophet on 01/03/04 at 13:25:46 on 01/03/04 at 12:28:49, Pandilex wrote:
Yeh Basically you could then have the object cat but have say: Boris(Name of cat).gender and so on is it easier in .net is what im trying to ask coz i know you can do it in vb6.0 aswell. on 01/03/04 at 13:05:12, Jurian wrote:
Its really slow. As in vb is 10*faster not sure about .net, but I read somewhere that vb 6.0 is 10* faster. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/03/04 at 13:42:06 yeah i know but pandi allready knows java right? but the client is mainly static so speed doesn't matter too much right? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Prophet on 01/03/04 at 13:44:26 You'd be surprised how much a client has to do which requires speed e.g. loading pics and so on. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/03/04 at 13:49:19 aaah yes forgot about the pics :D was only thinking about the buttons and stats showing lol didn't think about text box and pics loading :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/03/04 at 13:53:08 I don't like Java, I prefer c# it is nicer. Java, C# and Visual basic all run at roughly the same speed. visual basic 6.0 has types which share a couple of charactersics with objects, but it is not properly object oriented. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Oracle on 01/03/04 at 14:07:00 Sounds like some people need to keep their noses out what they don't understand which I know means I wont get involved :) I don't think that was very fair though Stigmata, we are all still working towards our educational goal irl which I can imagine is a lot of work for Pandilex. I would of thought you of all people would know how game development can drag on for a long time and brings more heart ache than joy for the developer as a result. If it makes the account manager and client look cooler/have cooler features then I'm all for it :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Issy on 01/03/04 at 16:50:08 20 mb download :-/ that'd be...uh... 28/8 = 3.5 1000/3.5 = 2:85 minutes 2.85*20 =57 minutes I think i did that wrong. anyways, it displays the general idea. It'd take a long time to download the client. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by JLH on 01/03/04 at 16:57:57 28kbps / 8 bits in a byte = 3.5KB/s 20,000KB / 3.5KB/s = 5714 seconds 5714s / 60 seconds in a minute = 95 minutes |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Issy on 01/03/04 at 16:59:59 i was about to edit it. Thanks JLH :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Matt on 01/03/04 at 17:29:15 .NET Framwork is what Joolz makes MetaCheat in :-X |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by ElDiAbLo on 01/03/04 at 18:13:49 Could someone please give me an exact link? I don't know which one to download. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Stigmata on 01/03/04 at 18:30:53 First of all, my intentions regarding my original post were not to provoke, antagonise or put down anyone, simply to state the fact that I can recall numerous times when Pandilex has promised to do something, resulting in a higher moral amongst players (in the hope of something else good going into the game) only to disappoint them. If you have an idea, then great, share it with us........but please don't post that it's going to happen when really you are not sure. Inquisitor's tower is a prime example of how you did this very thing........challenging the game to seek out the tower's treasure, promising us that you were in the process of building it, only to never speak of it again. The problem I see isn't the fact that you couldn't complete the area, it's that you didn't inform any players that it wasn't going to be built......who were infact waiting for it's release. 90% of the ideas for the game seems to be a tad far fetched for me....perhaps 90% of the ideas going into the game are finalised by yourself, but i'd put money on atleast a few of them are being borrowed from somewhere or someone else. As for outside developments, again, it's just the fact that you promise something only to never speak of it again......I can't recall how many release dates you put forward for OS only to disappoint...........a simple message would have been good enough to inform us that it would infact not be happening. A post like mine? I'm one of the rare few who actually care for the good of the game - I may have a different approach to posting than most people, but that's just the way it is...... Do not try and catagorise me with some of the other idiots on the boards (I know what you are talking about, and I also know what it's like to be on the receiving end). Just because I speak words that may seem controversial doesn't mean that I am selfishly trying to complain about the lack of good in the game, instead I am trying to raise points about how the game can be improved. I admit I was sarcastic in my first post, for which the only excuse would be anger. I'm not going to take back what I said but I would now prefer to have said it differently (hopefully cleared up by this post) after recalling on past experiences. In short what i'm trying to say is, 'if you have an idea, and you post about it, and that idea falls through......let people know!' Oracle - I understand mostly everything there is to understand (nightmist), and what I said, although harsh, needed to be said in hope that the players as a whole won't be disappointed. As for game development dragging on - I had ideas when I was staff that would have made area designing so much easier (hence why I worked with Al, instead of alone) but didn't get the time to share them. And of course real life issues should take priority, which I am not blaming pandilex for, simply trying to inform him that letting people know what's going on with idea's he's promised will always be the best policy. :) |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Mephistroth on 01/03/04 at 19:21:58 on 01/03/04 at 18:30:53, Stigmata wrote:
Oh please... theres more than a 'rare few' who actually care about the game, rather than making themselves more powerful. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/03/04 at 19:45:44 on 01/03/04 at 18:13:49, ElDiAbLo wrote:
don't worry you won't need it yet. i'm pretty sure then if/when the new client is finished there will be an exact link to what you need somewhere on the site. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Pandilex on 01/03/04 at 20:49:19 This was more a post to determine if it was okay to use the framework rather than to announce anything in particular being made with it. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Kalel on 01/03/04 at 20:53:02 alot of us care... I personly don't hardly play any more but hey we all know some one has to complane right... hey I still think this would be a good idea... and Thank You Nightmist Staff :) I apprecate what you do, and I don't need no smart ass comments about how I'm sucking up if you don't aprecate the work put into it not to mention the cost, money and time not the time u play but the time they put in to creat fix and keep this game going, takes alot of work and we all should be aprecative of what we get for FREE! Flame On |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Sausage on 01/03/04 at 21:16:41 I think the current and new clients should be supported. I can't see how this would be a problem.. But then again I don't know much about all this stuff. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Issy on 01/04/04 at 00:08:09 on 01/03/04 at 20:49:19, Pandilex wrote:
I'm cool with it. I'd just need to keep the install file if i'd have to reformat again. Thats along time to download on dial-up :-/ |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/04/04 at 11:25:07 i just noticed i have .net framework 1.1 on windows xp withouth downloading anything special. and you have my permission to make it pandi :D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Kalel on 01/04/04 at 21:43:11 More power to ya pandi :) |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Cottus on 01/05/04 at 04:30:26 Are you referring to upgrading from Visual Basic 6.0 to either Visual Basic.NET or changing it to a different language? I found that there is a lot of code that when you attempt to upgrade with the built in feature, it finds errors and that it was faster to rewrite a lot of the older code. Might add that .NET is much more powerful and the user interface should be way better than current. |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Issy on 01/05/04 at 14:43:52 on 01/04/04 at 11:25:07, Jurian wrote:
What version of XP? If it applies to me, it'll make me happy. ;D |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Roidhun on 01/05/04 at 15:30:29 on 01/03/04 at 02:35:39, JLH wrote:
Quite correct, but .NET Framework is redistributable, allowing you to pack it with the proposed client update. If you make the update using msi, you can let the microsoft installer dertermine whether downloading .NET Framwork with the client is needed or not. -- Roidhun |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/05/04 at 16:26:25 on 01/05/04 at 14:43:52, Issy wrote:
pro |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Issy on 01/05/04 at 18:16:38 on 01/05/04 at 16:26:25, Jurian wrote:
where did you find it at? |
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Title: Re: .NET Framework Question Post by Jurian on 01/05/04 at 20:21:47 start >settings >control panel > administrative tools > microsoft .net framework thingies :D |
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