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(Message started by: -system- on 11/28/03 at 10:19:57)
Title: C++
Post by -system- on 11/28/03 at 10:19:57
I was just wondering where all the staff learnt all there C++ skills
Title: Re: C++
Post by Jurian on 11/28/03 at 10:23:01

on 11/28/03 at 10:19:57, -system- wrote:
I was just wondering where all the staff learnt all there C++ skills


thought the program was made in vb? and only jlh and pandi know it i think. they made stuff staff can use to make areas and all that :D
Title: Re: C++
Post by -system- on 11/28/03 at 10:24:47
k just someone told me c++ was used to make the mud
Title: Re: C++
Post by Shane on 11/28/03 at 11:47:39
C++ can be used as can VB. I am not too sure which is used on NM, could be a mix of both. /shrug
Title: Re: C++
Post by JLH on 11/28/03 at 16:19:09
server and client are both vb, since i've been doing basic since i was 6 years old, and i've only been starting to get into c (as part of uni courses) in the past 2 years. if nightmist was running the server cpus at 100%, then i'd have to refine the code, or re-write in c (not a chance), which is a faster and more efficient language as it is not interpreted (but is harder to code). but the server runs below 10% usually, so all is fine.
Title: Re: C++
Post by -system- on 11/28/03 at 18:48:28
k just always wanted to learn to program in C++ but never seem to stick to it and was wondering what books would be the best or to take a course at Uni next year
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 11/28/03 at 18:50:21
Visual Basic is evil, I now program solely in C#
Title: Re: C++
Post by Rucker on 11/28/03 at 20:20:49
C++ is uhh...wierd, i took it last semester and ya, what a nightmare, i hated it  >:(
Title: Re: C++
Post by -system- on 11/28/03 at 21:05:36
Pandilex how long it take you to learn C# is it worth me taking it in Uni next year
Title: Re: C++
Post by Matt on 11/28/03 at 22:37:03
C Sharp is just a simplified version of C++. It's easy to learn (compared to C++).

Just go buy a book about C# to learn.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 11/28/03 at 22:44:30

on 11/28/03 at 22:37:03, Matt wrote:
C Sharp is just a simplified version of C++. It's easy to learn (compared to C++).

Just go buy a book about C# to learn.


Nope, C# is not like C++ at all...
Title: Re: C++
Post by -system- on 11/28/03 at 23:02:56
Just off hand what should i no really b4 i try and learn any progrmming  in C, C++ or C# etc
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 11/28/03 at 23:19:45
How object oriented programming works... Try looking up the MOOSE project you might find some useful information there.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Issy on 11/29/03 at 01:45:44
To make a MUD in C++ would be entirely difficult. And to make it in C would be redundant.

C is a very low grade programming. Similar to C++, C++ and C are both object oriented languages. C would more along the lines of making Jurian's NM Helper (even though he uses VB i think.)

C#, if i remember right, is similar to a mix between C++ and VB.

C++ is a fun language, brings some creativity into programming.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Jurian on 11/29/03 at 09:04:04
actually c# is microsofts version of java.

sun actually sued microsoft because they said c# was too similiar to java
Title: Re: C++
Post by Issy on 11/29/03 at 22:01:48
java is just like C++, infact, Java is very similar to C++, just java uses classes like a cow uses grass.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 11/29/03 at 22:46:11
lol I don't agree with any of your comparisons, microsoft has its own version of java which is not c#
Title: Re: C++
Post by Jurian on 11/30/03 at 12:02:11

on 11/29/03 at 22:46:11, Pandilex wrote:
lol I don't agree with any of your comparisons, microsoft has its own version of java which is not c#


then why did sun sue microsoft for making c#?
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 11/30/03 at 13:44:39

on 11/30/03 at 12:02:11, Jurian wrote:
then why did sun sue microsoft for making c#?


They didn't.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Jurian on 11/30/03 at 14:20:04

on 11/30/03 at 13:44:39, Pandilex wrote:
They didn't.

i know someone did :D some sued or wanted to sue microsoft with something c# related
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 11/30/03 at 14:47:32
I think a lot of people need to get their facts straight before they post. Every post bar the first is misinformation based on what seems to be a couple of lines they read somewhere in an article. If you have no idea what you're talking about then that's fine but please don't pretend you do!
Title: Re: C++
Post by Fujin on 12/05/03 at 07:41:47

on 11/30/03 at 14:47:32, Pandilex wrote:
If you have no idea what you're talking about then that's fine but please don't pretend you do!



if every one did that the post count per day would only be -1
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 12/05/03 at 15:36:19

on 12/05/03 at 07:41:47, Fujin wrote:
if every one did that the post count per day would only be -1


http://robsroldec.dcs.hull.ac.uk/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif
Title: Re: C++
Post by -system- on 12/05/03 at 21:14:16
well ok then, i checked the Moose project and decided to go with C++ just spent some money on a book and learning it as we speak. ty Pandilex
Title: Re: C++
Post by rebel_blaidd on 01/10/04 at 17:35:46
maths knolidge and problem solving skills would help too theres quite a few good tutorials online aswellit aint all that easy to learn c++ but if it was anyone could do it like umm *cough* vb *cough* lmao j/k i have a hatered for vb which comes from having to do vba at college which if ppl dont know vba is visual basic for (ghey microsoft) applications also i like it how c++ you see the whole backbone and from what ive looked at in vb you dont see everything and the way its set out is just strange d**n ive been pissing myself laffing at thease postes in here i dont realy know much about c# but i know it aint java heh btw the creator of c++ (not exactly acurate) bjorn straustup dossnt even acknoledge java as being anything like c++ lol it came from c but it changed quite a bit some methods and stuff are simular but not entirely
Title: Re: C++
Post by Breton on 01/10/04 at 17:52:58

on 01/10/04 at 17:35:46, rebel_blaidd wrote:
maths knolidge and problem solving skills would help too theres quite a few good tutorials online aswellit aint all that easy to learn c++ but if it was anyone could do it like umm *cough* vb *cough* lmao j/k i have a hatered for vb which comes from having to do vba at college which if ppl dont know vba is visual basic for (ghey microsoft) applications also i like it how c++ you see the whole backbone and from what ive looked at in vb you dont see everything and the way its set out is just strange d**n ive been pissing myself laffing at thease postes in here i dont realy know much about c# but i know it aint java heh btw the creator of c++ (not exactly acurate) bjorn straustup dossnt even acknoledge java as being anything like c++ lol it came from c but it changed quite a bit some methods and stuff are simular but not entirely


Math skills are required for any time of programing, its the only thing I ever apply my Algebra2+ math classes I took...
Title: Re: C++
Post by Bill on 01/10/04 at 18:54:10
I prefer VB over C++ etc. it's much easier to make visual things in (hence the name) Visual Basic, and i've also learnt a bit of Python, which is a very easy language, but i'm not too keen on it, for one thing it doesn't make .exe files, so you need the program to run it.

And yes, maths skills are required in most types of programming i've seen anyway.


on 11/29/03 at 22:46:11, Pandilex wrote:
lol I don't agree with any of your comparisons, microsoft has its own version of java which is not c#


J++?
Title: Re: C++
Post by acapulco on 01/11/04 at 00:22:06

on 11/30/03 at 14:47:32, Pandilex wrote:
I think a lot of people need to get their facts straight before they post. Every post bar the first is misinformation based on what seems to be a couple of lines they read somewhere in an article. If you have no idea what you're talking about then that's fine but please don't pretend you do!


why u always so cranky?  i think u need to get laid buddy boy
Title: Re: C++
Post by dognapot on 01/11/04 at 06:13:04
actually, you're all wrong, C# is Db. hah! i made a funny.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Stotic on 01/11/04 at 06:19:14

on 01/11/04 at 00:22:06, acapulco wrote:
why u always so cranky?  i think u need to get laid buddy boy

Why is it that I always see "go get laid" comments on these forums?  Like sexual gratification is going to change anything in this situation.  
Title: Re: C++
Post by Thenobleone on 01/15/04 at 12:07:17
Ok I am learning C#.  Now this is what C# really is I watched a show made by microsoft by the developers of c# and thisis what they said it was.

C# is a combination of the good points of many languages and missing the bad points in these languages.  C# is a combination of C++/C and Java with a few things from other langs I can't remember.  C# only works on the .Net platform and the easiest way to use it is with MSVS.Net.  MSVS.Net costs around $1000 usd for the low down version.

http://www.msdn.microsoft.com/theshow/Episode008/default.asp

Watch that and it will tell you what it is.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 01/15/04 at 12:18:26
:D

It's cool. The new Black & White game is written in .NET =)

Microsoft demonstrated Quake 2 written in .NET at our university a while back.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Thenobleone on 01/15/04 at 12:22:50
lol actually I saw a demo in the .Net Show archives which was raw recompile of native c++ into managed c++ the fps dropped by 10% from 60 to 50 but that was no written in managed code with managed directx 9 and managed c++ so if it was totaly re written in managed you would have only seen about a 1 - 2% decrease.  :P
Title: Re: C++
Post by Abj on 01/15/04 at 14:35:27
right i put C++ on hold and started learning VB instead
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 01/15/04 at 16:00:33

on 01/15/04 at 14:35:27, Abj wrote:
right i put C++ on hold and started learning VB instead


Put both on hold and learn C#, it is superior in every way.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Abj on 01/15/04 at 19:06:50
yes but i am new to programming and VB is easier to learn first
Title: Re: C++
Post by Issy on 01/15/04 at 20:06:34

on 01/15/04 at 16:00:33, Pandilex wrote:
Put both on hold and learn C#, it is superior in every way.


I've taken  a C++ course, and a VB course. Right now i'm taking Java.

In college, i'll take all of them include including C# and VB.net.

I don't know how much different VB and VB.net is....so i'm a bit excited.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Pandilex on 01/15/04 at 20:18:05

on 01/15/04 at 20:06:34, Issy wrote:
I've taken  a C++ course, and a VB course. Right now i'm taking Java.

In college, i'll take all of them include including C# and VB.net.

I don't know how much different VB and VB.net is....so i'm a bit excited.


C# and VB.NET are essesntially the same, but with C# having a Java/C++ sort of syntax, and VB.NET having a visual basic sort of syntax.

.NET is object-oriented, while VB is not. This makes it infinitely more powerful and easy to use. Rather than have huge ugly arrays and other such nonsense, you can make a class, say for example, a Cat class. Inside the class is everything you need for a cat, so it would have a Name property, and perhaps a Colour property. It would also have a method to make it Meow and Purr.
Once you've made the class, you can now make as many cats as you want. In visual basic, you cannot do this, you can only use types (which are pointless without serialization).

This makes it very easy to create large numbers of anything, for example in Nightmist we would use a Monster class, a Player class, an Equipment class, Sword Classes, Shield classes, etc etc.

Then to create players, we'd just do like

Pandilex = New Player();

And ta-da we have a new player called Pandilex who has a name, race, etc - everything we defined earlier. Saving to a file is a matter of a handful of lines, rather than something that loops through an array. These are just some of the things that make .NET better than visual basic.

Visual basic is very difficult to write large programs in because it is poorly structured and code is very hard to read (This is the reason that the first opal spheres game was abandoned).

In C#, I can read other people's code including my own without any difficulties. It offers so much more than what's above, but that is the main use of it. It is where industry is going - sadly visual basic will become obselete in a few months/years and .NET will be the industry standard. Hurrah for microsoft.

I strongly advise against learning visual basic, it is not up to standard and does not have any cutting edge technologies. .NET programs can be compiled to work on computers such as Windows machines, Tablet PC's and even SmartPhones (my housemate has one of these and I'm very jealous). It also works on one of the unix distributions, and when the .NET frameworks for other operating systems are completed, it will work on those too.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Abj on 01/15/04 at 20:24:42
Geeses all i wanted to no in the first place was what language i should learn and end up with loads of people telling me things after i start learning i get told to learn somthin else lol.

right a question what programmeing language(s) did you/JLH use to make nightmist and how long it take you to make it to be released and i aint asking cause i wanna make it. IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!! lol just wondering
Title: Re: C++
Post by Issy on 01/16/04 at 00:07:48

on 01/15/04 at 20:18:05, Pandilex wrote:
.NET is object-oriented, while VB is not. This makes it infinitely more powerful and easy to use. Rather than have huge ugly arrays and other such nonsense, you can make a class, say for example, a Cat class. Inside the class is everything you need for a cat, so it would have a Name property, and perhaps a Colour property. It would also have a method to make it Meow and Purr.
Once you've made the class, you can now make as many cats as you want. In visual basic, you cannot do this, you can only use types (which are pointless without serialization).


That would mean  C++ and .NET are similar as well? Considering C++ is object oriented  as well.


on 01/15/04 at 20:18:05, Pandilex wrote:
This makes it very easy to create large numbers of anything, for example in Nightmist we would use a Monster class, a Player class, an Equipment class, Sword Classes, Shield classes, etc etc.

Then to create players, we'd just do like

Pandilex = New Player();

And ta-da we have a new player called Pandilex who has a name, race, etc - everything we defined earlier. Saving to a file is a matter of a handful of lines, rather than something that loops through an array. These are just some of the things that make .NET better than visual basic.


Thats what C++ is like generally. The Chess program a friend and i tried to make (which we still havn't got working) required. Create a pawn class, queen class, king class etc etc...

VB is a weird language  in my opinion. Before i took VB, i could look at VB and semi-understand it.

Java is similar to C++ to me as well.
Title: Re: C++
Post by JLH on 01/16/04 at 00:21:21

on 01/15/04 at 20:24:42, Abj wrote:
Geeses all i wanted to no in the first place was what language i should learn and end up with loads of people telling me things after i start learning i get told to learn somthin else lol.

right a question what programmeing language(s) did you/JLH use to make nightmist and how long it take you to make it to be released and i aint asking cause i wanna make it. IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!! lol just wondering

nightmist is all visual basic, the first version took 6 weeks to create (the summer holiday) and since then it has been continually upgraded. I have no plans to rewrite everything in another language, because it all works fine as it is. I've been doing basic since i was 6 tho, so i can easily code in it so changing for me would be a big deal, although i do know how to work visual c++, i don't use it because i know basic better.
if you know nothing, it would probably be a good idea to learn a new language like one of the .net's, i have not looked at them yet so can't comment further on them.

Edit: VB is an intrepreted language, along with the .net's so they run on top of a framework (vb runtime dll's and .net framework). C++ compiles directly for the cpu and so can run on any operating system with minimal changes. The fastest langauge though is assembly, the language of the computer processor, but it would take ages to make the simplist of things.
Title: Re: C++
Post by alone on 01/16/04 at 00:25:04
Ok.. As a complete novice to coding. Where would all you people suggest I start? I'm guessing, as JLH said with the .net's. But, what's the different between them? How many are there? Is a book best? Classes? Tutorials?

Thanks foir any and all advice in advance :)
Title: Re: C++
Post by JLH on 01/16/04 at 00:39:02
i started just messing about with basic and typing games into it from the user guide that came with the bbc (only way to play a game was to load it from a cassette or type in the code, i didn't have a disc drive back then (they cost like £200!)
Title: Re: C++
Post by Issy on 01/16/04 at 01:24:57
I started with C++  and C. then adapted into VB, and am slowly growing from there.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Thenobleone on 01/16/04 at 02:11:56
Ok maybe I can help a bit here.  .Net consists of 15 supported langs.  The only ones I know of are Managed C++, C#, VB.Net, J#, Cobal.Net.  There are many more that are supported I just can't remember.  Now Managed C++ is not compiled directly to the Machine anymore.  It is now just like all the other .Net langs.  They are compiled to a assembly lang called MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language).  Then when the exe is run the JIT (Just in Time) compiler is run analzing the MSIL and converting it to x86 Binary Machine code.  Then the CLR (common language runtime) executes the code on the machine.  Now the CLR is the only part of the .Net framework with total access to the system.  This makes things more safe your computer.

The types of safty are for example in C++ you can use pointers well bad pointer math will screw your computer and cause memory leaks and worse yet overwrite memory that runs the os and other important things the CLR can prevent this somewhat.

Now all of the langs compile to nearly Identical IL.  Thus the langs can interact with eachother very well.  Every lang now references variables By Val as the default then removing lots of interoperability problems that they use to have.

So that means all the langs that come in .Net can interact with eachother with no code change whatsoever. YEY!

JLH that means no more haveing to type By Val for every var in a api function.

Now the best lang in .Net is C# and it is the most powerful as it was made only for .Net and not modified to .Net.  The reason it is more powerful is it has 100% full access to all of the CLR's functionality.

Now the coolest thing about .Net is that it will eventually work on multiple operating systems without having to recompile the code

the reason for that is that the .net framework will have a CLR that will compile to there machine code therefor your program can run without ever needing to be changed or recompiled on diff computers.

Ok I am tired of typing :P  Hope that helps all of you understand a bit more about .Net and hopfully in insighted you JLH.
Title: Re: C++
Post by JLH on 01/16/04 at 02:46:12

Quote:
JLH that means no more haveing to type By Val for every var in a api function
i don't anyway, lol.
also, i prefer to write my own functions, so api's are avoided generally.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Thenobleone on 01/16/04 at 02:52:27
lol well most people in Vb use the api's quite a bit especially when writing games so I assumed you did as well I guess i was wrong then.  However, I still hope the rest of it gave you a bit better look at .Net.
Title: Re: C++
Post by Flawless on 01/22/04 at 19:43:50
lol writing your own function is much more fun (sarcasm), though writing your own functions is better in my opinion. Though going back to JLH point assembly is crazy language anyone that can program in it is well crazily clever or spends every moment of their life learning it.


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