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Title: Thefts Post by Oracle on 09/10/03 at 00:52:17 I just spent about the last 4-5 hours following up things involving one set of thefts and in the middle of it had another person's account deleted who thought they could evade me when trying to scam someone in a trade. Anyway it resulted in tevlok's main account being banned for 2 weeks+ We can see he stole from more than once person it would seem and what ever the circumstances stealing is illegal. I could return some things and not others and prove some things and not others. I'd like to point out I did all this before I even noticed there was a thread about him on the forum so what’s said there hasn’t effected what I've done with JLH's help tonight. The moral of my story is, all theft is wrong however it is preformed and staff may act on it if they wish to do so although they probably wont take up all of them. The second part being another plea, don’t give out your passwords… When ever you share with anyone, eventually one of you gets bored and decides to stop sharing taking your crits with it and will sometimes get away with it as staff don’t generally help if it’s a trade issue but sometimes we will and that’s when the thieves are caught out. Be careful who you trust, or who you think you’re trusting. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/10/03 at 01:52:45 Whilst I appluad the current crackdown on thieves and such, it doesn't seem to sit so well with me that people are being month banned (such as myself) for language, whilst (in this case) people who are stealing other peoples belongings are only getting two week bans? I'm not posting with the intent to lengthen Tevloks ban, I'm just wondering if staff might consider writing up some procedures and guidelines, that all staff must abide by, detailing what punishment there is to be regarding specific incidents, and a basic outline of how long these punishments should last for? |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Bean on 09/10/03 at 02:14:40 Stealing should be a ZERO TOLERANCE offense.... instant perma ban, we dont need these d**ned people around on this game. If they wanna steal they can go rob a bank and spend a few years dropping the soap... We dont need their kind around here |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Artemis on 09/10/03 at 02:22:47 Staff award punishments however they see fit. So regardless if you've sworn in general chat or stolen an account full of items by hacking- if they think it deserves 2 months or two weeks it's up to them. If you're a generally annoying player you'll more than likely recieve a less desireable punishment. It's all in the TOS i believe.. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Bean on 09/10/03 at 03:35:07 That gives way to staff 'favoring' players, And as that stands people like to use that as a great excuse to flame staff. If you had set ban times It would be much better.... Because honestly If staff are setting ban times 'as they see fit' they are most likely letting some small personal view worm its way into thier setting of the ban time... Like you said yourself 'more annoying players will recieve a less desireable ban time' That should not be the case... When it comes to ban times the offenders should be seen as a faceless mass, ban times should be the EXACT same for EVERY misdemeanor of the same kind. Of course repeat offenders should recieve a more sever penalty. And As I said in my first post, hacking, or generally stealing at all should be ZERO TOLERANCE. ~Bean~ |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/10/03 at 03:50:46 on 09/10/03 at 02:22:47, Artemis wrote:
That is a rule system wich essentially functions on bias, even though a player may still be getting punished, there is still the element of player/staff relation. Now I've never accused staff of 'being corrupt', and it is rare that I would complain about reasons for being banned, but I see no reason a standard set of procedures should not be put in. We are all people, sitting at computers, playing a game we enjoy. We are all equal, and thus deserve to be judged in such a way. Like Bean said, repeated regular offenders should be dealt with, but this should only be the result of an escalation of circumstances, where the party fails to adjust thier behavior after say, two bannings. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Nore on 09/10/03 at 04:18:39 ok this morning, somehow mine and eds cobalt juss vanished outta our acct. and we dunno how or what happened to it, can a staff plz explain to me what happened to it? page/memo nore |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Stotic on 09/10/03 at 04:24:39 "ok this morning, somehow mine and eds cobalt juss vanished outta our acct" |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Nore on 09/10/03 at 04:30:08 it did |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by CPG on 09/10/03 at 04:31:46 He was emphasizing the part where you guys share. Also, he is hinting that because of sharing, one of the people might have taken the csotw. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Artemis on 09/10/03 at 06:31:00 on 09/10/03 at 03:50:46, Deval wrote:
You could be correct but you are forgetting one major detail, it's their game and they do not care what you think is fair and what you do not. They have the right to change the rules however, whenever, to whatever. Nothing you can say will change how they base their rules, so this is all really just a waste of time. JLH & Pandilex = god. Your morals mean nothing here lol.. The loopholes! I know, but you agreed to all of these (meaning situations where JLH/Pan have the right to claim your soul and it is not optional!) when you downloaded and installed the game to begin with..heh. :P |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/10/03 at 06:48:57 on 09/10/03 at 06:31:00, Artemis wrote:
This isn't so much a discussion about morals, but of ethics ^_^ Whilst your abosolutely correct in saying that it's JLH and Pandilex's game, and whilst they are without doubt the 'be all', and 'end all', it is not unreasonable for us to voice our concerns over such topics. I don't think anyone expects them to take such action at the drop of a hat, we are merely just throwing the topic into the foray for discussion, and the possibility it 'may' be considered by staff. :) |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Demonic on 09/10/03 at 07:11:07 well I asked JLH when my rune staff was stolen by ed: 'So you are cool with ppl stealing of each other and won't do anything???' His answer was: 'I am not cool with it, but unable to do anything.' So well... I said I can steal off ppl then also (what I did) and now he banned me for 2weeks while ed got nothing? Rofl ed admitted the stealing thing and I stole of a shared acc. So stuff which I also own. I honestly don't see the difference beetwen ed admitting it, and getting no bann. And me taking stuff out of a shared acc and getting 2 weeks banned for that. And now don't try to tell me that would be a fair situation. I mean... what do we have staffers for when they randomly bann ppl without any rules? Or is the rule: 'Staff can bann whoever they want to bann, and they will do this!' It is just gay what's going on in nm... Nothing but thefts yes, now I did what other ppl did to me a couple of times and I am the only one who is banned? LOL Come on... I doubt that is anything like fair. Ed hacked even.... I just took crits out of an acc I owned! That is dumb -.- |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Aidon on 09/10/03 at 07:23:51 The fair only happens once a year, unlike life, which is hardly ever fair. The point is you stole, and were punished. Some people get away with things, but thats life, thats why there is thievery and murder in real life, look at OJ. No system is perfect, you just have to work at what you have. You did something wrong and you know it, let it go. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Demonic on 09/10/03 at 07:27:25 And all staffers know that ed and bill do and did such things in the past hundert of times... they both stole enough for an own cobalt... and I get banned for sharing an acc? I thought there was this 'Staff won't deal with thefts anymore' thing? |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Aidon on 09/10/03 at 07:36:55 Here I thought Oracle just posted about how staff will deal with these things as they can, whether it be time wise, or any other reason. We are staff, we are also human, and we can only do as much as time and other restrictions allow, people ask for us to monitor trades, yet also take care of every theft issue, and run more quests, etc etc etc etc. Oracle took the time to investiagte and punish you, and had every right to, so get over it, get a 2 week long breath of fresh air. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/10/03 at 07:46:47 Now if there were guidelines and procedures for this kind of situation... ;) |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Aidon on 09/10/03 at 07:50:16 There are loose guidleines, but just like any judge in a typical judicial system, the sentence is open to somewhat of loose interptretment. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/10/03 at 07:52:54 My shoelace is loose... |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Jurian on 09/10/03 at 08:11:00 (didn't have time to read al replies) hmm i like tevlok (well kinda) but i agree with deval here. month bans for bad language and when someone steals he gets a 2 week ban? even though i like tevlok i do think he should get a perm ban for stealing the stuff. second what's gonna happen with the money he got from the stuff that he sold? cuz this theft would still result in an unfair advantage to others when he gets back. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Demonic on 09/10/03 at 10:05:24 The thing is just I didn't steal it hacking or ripping him off. He send me acc name and pass. So why did I even get banned? |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Sera on 09/10/03 at 10:11:31 Dude, did I buy a stolen hally? *sighs* This is a game people. Why do you feel the urge to lie/cheat/steal to get ahead? Games are supposed to be FUN, not be all about stealing and stuff. It sucks really bad that the trust lvl in this game has dropped DRAMATICALLY since I started playing NM. Personally I don't want thieves in the game. I think if they steal once, they will steal again, and again... why not just get rid of them for good? |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Demonic on 09/10/03 at 11:19:26 I never wanted to steal... but look at ed and bill: Both got a cobalt by thefts. Only things they did were ripping ppl off and what did staff do? - Nothing. So why should I get banned when they don't? Or is anyone going to tell me ed and bill are honerable persons and they wouldn't steal anything? Lol I doubt that. Ed stole stuff off me which was way more expensive. Nothing happened to him, and now I get an acc name + pass and I get banned for 2 weeks??? WTF is that? I mean what is staff doing? First they don't deal with thefts, when I need help and now they bann me and chosed to help random ppl. Explain me what's the point of doing that? Seems like noone is able to make any rules in nm, and everyone is doing whatever he/she wants to do. Isn't it sad when the whole game is about thefts, lieing, clan wars and selling game stuff for real money. Explain me what the rules are and I'll accpet them. But those rules by staff should be the same for everyone and not a random decission by single staff members. This is really dumb. No rules and noone knows what will happen. Imagine such a chaos in real. 2ppl steal anything... one of them gets killed and the other one can go away? lol it is like the same on nm. And btw... the hallys were mine... |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Exor on 09/10/03 at 14:16:53 I think its kinda gay myself too.Ed and Bill stole their way to a Cobalt, and don't even get banned! Tevlok steals out of an account that he SHARED with, and is banned for two weeks. I do however think stealing sucks and they both should be perm banned. lol |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Jurian on 09/10/03 at 14:43:33 on 09/10/03 at 14:16:53, Exor wrote:
i totally agree. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Demonic on 09/10/03 at 15:40:51 Yop... I also agree, but since Ed and Bill didn't get perm banned it wouldn't be fair to bann me now. But the rule 'Thefts = perm bann' looks ok to me. And well... they hacked accs and didn't just take some stuff out of a shared acc while everyone says DO NOT SHARE. That guy was dumb by himself, others hacked by Ed and Bill didn't do anything. So well perm bann is cool... just that staff makes a new rule there and start doig it with next thief :D |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by alone on 09/10/03 at 16:00:07 Sorry, i haven't read every post.. But i'll point out something Pandilex himself wrote: "The new penalty for attempting to steal from a player via a trade is PERMENANT BAN. That means you'll never, ever be able to play nightmist again. Please note that while this is the punishment for caught thieves, staff will not necessarily (in fact probably won't at all) investigate cases where people have not bothered to have staff present when conducting a trade." And that happens to be in the sticky post right above this one (Assuming this is still the top post at time of reading..) |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Exor on 09/10/03 at 16:43:48 Well staff shouldn't be biased about this.They ban Tevlok for stealing, but ed and bill get off free when they did worse.I find this slightly lame. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Mephistroth on 09/10/03 at 16:54:54 Well.. the rules weren't in place when they stole (i think anyway) but they were in place when Tevlok stole... so from what I know tev should be perm banned. If Ed/Bill did steal when the rules were in place though, then they should also be perm banned. Edit: I also read somewhere on the forum that Eds cobalt got taken by JLH.. not sure how true that is. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Oz on 09/10/03 at 17:24:10 Sharing an account is one thing, you take that risk. If your dumb enough to give someone your acct and pass then they steal stuff from you, then you got what you paid for. On the other hand if you didn't share anaccount and were "cracked"(proper term), or you were ripped during a trade then I could see where rules kick in. Common sence should tell you, that no matter if there is a trading system implimented or not, thiefths will still be a problem in form of trojans, etc... life goes on |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Mephistroth on 09/10/03 at 17:29:09 And the people that do steal, even if its from someone they share with, should get punished. It's quite simple to understand. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by LionHeart on 09/10/03 at 17:37:20 once a thief always a thief but its staffers call and its their choice what happens and we shud respect that. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Exor on 09/10/03 at 18:51:18 http://www.nightmist-online.co.uk/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=TradeWanted;action=display;num=1062402020;start=0#17 wow another thing stolen by ed/bill! Yeah he really changed didn't he? |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by JLH on 09/10/03 at 19:49:35 tevlok was not banned for stealing, it was just a coincidence and great timing on my part. some time ago, he said he would hack the server, i said ok, and if he couldn't do it, i'd ban him, he agreed. last night, i decided his time was up. ;D |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by GoLdEnStAr on 09/10/03 at 19:53:56 lol, any other bets currently running? :P |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Roc on 09/10/03 at 20:35:16 on 09/10/03 at 19:49:35, JLH wrote:
I love this guy. * hugs JLH. Anyway I say now that it is on the open that the 3 are stealing. And it has been stated on this thread and many others I suggest just permenently banning them. This is just madness. Nightmist players don`t want thieves around and staff don`t need the headaches. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by GoLdEnStAr on 09/10/03 at 20:39:46 * is clapping for Jim i have to agree, enforce the punishments and prevent further thefts |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Nore on 09/10/03 at 21:24:44 umm simon stole, and how did i get brought into this..? and ya might wanna check with JLH cuz we only own 1 cobalt.. and we dont even own that ne more. so maybe simon should stop stealing and selling peoples stuff and take responsibility for stealing..? |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Demonic on 09/10/03 at 21:51:08 all know you are a thief... I owned also stuff which was taken out of my acc by JLH... |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Aidon on 09/10/03 at 22:01:01 I dont know if its the great use of grammar, or then unintelligent finger pointing, but something about this thread sure does remind me of elemtary school. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Exor on 09/10/03 at 22:43:50 Yeah Tev stole some, but you stole ALOT more Ed.Everyone knows it.Like tevs rune staff?What happened to it? ::) |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Mephistroth on 09/10/03 at 22:45:34 Who cares? they both stole something and should both be punished. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by deSade on 09/10/03 at 22:49:18 I think if thieves are to be allowed continue playing after a ban, they should have all their crits reset and equipment, gold etc. removed. >:( Hugh |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/10/03 at 23:06:57 I think it's pretty clear by now, that everyone, including staff, could benefit from a set of procedures and rules and punishments, set in concrete in a document for all to see on the website, which is what my initial post was intended for. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Exor on 09/10/03 at 23:07:21 Nore yells from (Hidden): remember everyone stealing is easy and fun oh and hes changed? ::) |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Oz on 09/10/03 at 23:09:11 on 09/10/03 at 19:49:35, JLH wrote:
ROFL... thats just funny. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Nore on 09/10/03 at 23:10:30 umm taking stuff outta context again ::) |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Nero on 09/11/03 at 03:47:23 ut recent;y stole my boots of time and 2 5 stat el;fs then he quites the next day cause someoen stole his cobalt oh poor baby i dont feel bad for you you never deserved it. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Bean on 09/11/03 at 04:10:45 After reading this post I have a suggestion for a new room! 'Grammar and Spelling 101, All nightmist intelectuals are welcome ::)' Seriously though, You guys need to slow down, think about what your typing. Then and only then should you type out what you are going to say in a clear, and concise manner. The spelling errors arent that bad, but coupled with horrible grammar you guys are quite difficult to decypher half the time. On another note, The three year old 'He did it too' statements are getting old. It doesnt matter who else has done ANYTHING, the point is you got caught, now suck it up and deal with it. If you havent been caught, Might I suggest an early retirement? Anyways, thats my... * counts five cents ;D Have a great day gentlemen/ladies. P.S:I dont have time to check this for spelling mistakes, so feel free to correct me :P Edit: Stupid emote command... |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Oracle on 09/11/03 at 23:01:03 Ok well I think most of you know I'm still in school and something teachers say time and time again is: "I don't care if he was the one who started it/did it first. I caught you doing it and I'm punishing you for it" It seems a fact of life to me, I actually had more than one issue of theft with you brought up tevlok, not just stealing from someone you share with. The idea of having a set rule for banning people, well you say staff may be bias... remember, all sysops only have one ban command and that is /dayban. It is the admins that put any other ban on so there can be no bias shown by the investigators and the actual severity of bans is probably measured correctly as it is the same 2 people that every ban goes through. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Deval on 09/11/03 at 23:57:51 on 09/11/03 at 23:01:03, Oracle wrote:
Thanks, I was unaware of this. P.S I never said staff were biased, I said the system leaves room for bias, which has been discovered to be incorrect after what you have told us. |
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Title: Re: Thefts Post by Bean on 09/12/03 at 02:02:17 I just realized that my post is in the wrong topic.... d**nit Edit: That being the one about the grammar 101 room, yeah I'll shut up now. |
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