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        Nightmist Online - Please read the terms of use before posting here >> Discussion Forum >> Hit and Run
        
(Message started by: -Gaddy- on 06/21/03 at 10:52:44)

Title: Hit and Run
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/21/03 at 10:52:44

Ok, to be specific, I am talking a thief party being covert with either mage or druid leading and attacking then leaving right away...very quickly hitting what they can then exiting to covert and come back later possibly....i suppose some with mages use rangers to hit and run as invis..but havent seen it much...now then-
I dont want people to disscuss who does it because there is no need. I just want to know tactic or poor sportsmanship?

personally i think it is a pking tactic.

p.s. Please dont make this some kind of post complaining about it or certain players that use it, if it becomes that it ought to be locked, i just want to know what everyone's opinion is. shouldnt take more than one sentence to say it is cheap, poor sportsmanship, dumb noob tactic or whatever, or to say its a tactic, a skill that is becoming widely used, or its fun to do cause i can do no better. (i think this last thing i will add to my opinion on it also)

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Eternyte on 06/21/03 at 11:49:36

It is a good tactic, but it is also poor sportsmanship.
It's down to the individual. All I can say is if you use the tactic, people will use it against you. So dont whine when it happens.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Exor on 06/21/03 at 12:04:22

Its a good tactic to me if you are outnumbered.

But I just think attacking and logging is lame.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Harky on 06/21/03 at 12:21:03

I can't say I'm surprised people are dropping to this level, I'm not even surprised that people are condoning it - players in this game are pathetic nowadays and there's no hiding it.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Galatae on 06/21/03 at 12:33:46

Why do you think druids, mages and thieves have some sort of invisibility ? I think it makes the game challenging, you never know who's where.
It does give a person a chance at taking out some uber-equiped archie.
If you don't like it, then go train where no one really wants to go, and/or get a cleric to vision them out.
Each tactic used can be countered.

My opinion - You can't say that the tactic is in itself sportsman or not, it's the person behind the tactic and what he/she says that determines it.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/21/03 at 13:18:24

I apperciate the way these are going, very un-hostile looking and stuff, ty.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Harky on 06/21/03 at 13:28:25

on 06/21/03 at 12:33:46, Galatae wrote:

Why do you think druids, mages and thieves have some sort of invisibility ?

Travelling, avoiding packs of 'newbie-hunting' retards.

on 06/21/03 at 12:33:46, Galatae wrote:

I think it makes the game challenging, you never know who's where.

I have nothing against people using invisibility until they find someone but instantly running away afterwards is unbelievably gay.

on 06/21/03 at 12:33:46, Galatae wrote:

It does give a person a chance at taking out some uber-equiped archie.
If you don't like it, then go train where no one really wants to go, and/or get a cleric to vision them out.
Each tactic used can be countered.

There's always a chance to take out some 'uber-equiped archie' even with sub-par equipment, it's all luck. There's no need to drop to such a level.

on 06/21/03 at 12:33:46, Galatae wrote:

My opinion - You can't say that the tactic is in itself sportsman or not, it's the person behind the tactic and what he/she says that determines it.

There is, or at least there used to be before the morons took over a code of etiquette involving pking, that has obviously gone. The only way I could see 'hit and run' as being acceptable would be if the person was roleplaying a murderer - without alts, and without 'logging off'. However, considering 99% of the people in this game are incapable of/unwilling to roleplay, it's just a really gay tactic because you're too much of a coward to stand there and die to someone who is superior to you.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Despair on 06/21/03 at 13:33:38

on 06/21/03 at 12:33:46, Galatae wrote:

Why do you think druids, mages and thieves have some sort of invisibility ?

Their invisibility imo is for hiding *themselves* from attackers to do a suprise attack or escape . . .

I don't agree with using them just to drag round a pile of theives but thats just my opinion . . .

I honestly belive that when your stam is gone your not supposed to be able to move . . . it has been suggested that the members of the party carry other members with no stam thats how they move . . . If thats the case how does 1 crit (The mage) carry upto 5 theives at a time with 0 stamina

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Eternyte on 06/21/03 at 14:17:25

Lets just bring in the alt rule, and concentrate on improving all the classes.

Harky I agree that it is pathetic. However, there is no rule in place to stop the 'tactic'. If you would like to suggest one, I would be more than happy to add to it. Although until that time, it's going to be down to the morals of the certain players.

Personally I dont do hit and runs (Excluding clan battles in Clan House), but not everyone has these ideals.

I do think a time delay of 30 - 60 secs, from logging off should be implemeted. This would cure the 'Hitting and logging' 'tactic', which I also think is pathetic.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Insomnia on 06/21/03 at 17:24:20

on 06/21/03 at 14:17:25, Eternyte wrote:

Lets just bring in the alt rule, and concentrate on improving all the classes.

Wouldn't help. People would just form parties where someone, using a mage, drives while the rest of the party concentrates on attacking. Some people already do this..

Momba posted a nice solution under Suggestions/Improvements (not sure which one) a while ago, that could work really well if it was worked on a bit.

-------

And yes, I do think that this new... phenomenon (wouldn't call it a 'tactic') is cowardly and pathetic.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Harath on 06/21/03 at 17:33:45

I don't really like this tactic, the only time I would consider using it is if i'm out numbered, and even then the chances are I would either run, or stay and fight (more fun anyway).

The main problem I have with people using this tactic, is that they boast afterwards. What's there to boast about? So what if you ran in fully spelled up, killed someone and then run out. What does that prove? That your a lame annoyance that can't when things are fair.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Despair on 06/21/03 at 17:47:54

The Suggested yet controversial sollution to stopping hit and runs was . . . A crit without stam can not move until he has some stamina, if in a party and the party moves then the crit who has no stamina is left behind until he has enough energy to move . . .

There will still be ways to do hit and runs even if this is introduced . . . (ie. using regular attacks and leaving 1 stam)
however they wont be anywhere neer as effective

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Bobbity on 06/21/03 at 18:50:44

Maybe to stop hit and runs JLH could put in a system where if you attack someone, you cant move until you have all stamina, or until someone dies. It could say something like, 'You are too exhausted from the battle.'

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Harky on 06/21/03 at 19:36:25

I know not many people will agree with me on this, but the pvp system was ok in the first place - before the ten level limit, and before the required experience for 'full damage attacks' even at level 30.. the reason they had to be changed was because of people taking advantage of the system. The level 30 thing was I believe originally introduced because people insisted on running back over and over after dying because they can't handle the fact that someone else was simply better/luckier than them at the time. The ten level limit thing was introduced because of the people that insist on sitting in low level area's trying to kill newbies. Making things more complex isn't necessarily better, and if everyone started acting with a little bit more respect for other players none of this would be/would have been necessary.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/21/03 at 23:28:23

10 lvl limit is only annoying if you're the arch that cant attack the lvl 5.

but thats not the point of this thread..just if hit and run is a tactic or poor sportsmanship.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Zephie on 06/21/03 at 23:33:26

it's pathetic, that's what it is.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Odom21 on 06/22/03 at 00:15:01

I think it should only be used when your outnumbered..

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by DrAgIn on 06/22/03 at 16:40:28

the only reason that the hit and run "tactic" is used is because some people cant fight 1 on 1 or 5 on 5 in a fair duel... some people are going to do it no matter what and others have differant opiions about it.... personally i think it's just taking the easy way out and making whoever is doing it look not only like a fool... but like less of a person... if your going to fight someone then do exactly that... fight... there is no running involved in duels....

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Zylia on 06/22/03 at 21:37:05

It's a tactic yea, but.. it doesn't prove anything. If you have someone macroed with 4-6 expert-arch thieves you'll take them down easily unless they happen to miss every time. And there seem to be a certain few who are constantly using this. Too bad huh.. I try to avoid using a mage's invisibility on my crits other than trying to pass someone whose after me. Normally I don't use it as a tactic to sneak in, hit, and take off a second later.

It's poor sportsmanship but we can't really do anything about it. Same with the hit and log tactic. We just have to consider some resolutions and voice our ideas. I agree with the logging after 10 seconds or something. I've seen it used before and I like it. Even 5 seconds would let this cheap tactic become ineffective. :)

Trash the lvl 10 rule too.. It's annoying and unrealistic. :-/ If you're getting pounded on in an area, either learn to run faster or relocate your training.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Roidhun on 06/22/03 at 23:35:51

on 06/22/03 at 21:37:05, Zylia wrote:

Trash the lvl 10 rule too.. It's annoying and unrealistic. :-/ If you're getting pounded on in an area, either learn to run faster or relocate your training.

The only trouble is, that there are preciously few areas, accessible to low level crits, that haven't got pk-ing parties permanently in them. :-/

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Zylia on 06/23/03 at 23:35:50

Well heres food for thought. Notice how the arenas used to have full experience on them. That experience was halved to encourage players to train outside. Then when they went outside they were owned by higher levels so the level 10 rule was put in place. Why not just restore the arenas to full experience and change the lvl 10 rule? Guess there are pros and cons to both, but still. It takes away from the game when you go to attack someone and they are 'too weak' for you to kill. Tell me how that makes sense?

Anyways. Thats a little off topic..

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Deval on 06/24/03 at 00:14:03

on 06/23/03 at 23:35:50, Zylia wrote:

Notice how the arenas used to have full experience on them. That experience was halved to encourage players to train outside. Then when they went outside they were owned by higher levels so the level 10 rule was put in place. Why not just restore the arenas to full experience and change the lvl 10 rule?

I STRONGLY support this, I would give my own blood to have this put back in place. What is supposed to drive people away from arenas is the poor gold. At the moment arenas serve No purpose whatsoever.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/24/03 at 04:22:02

You know, that is very true, but it does take fun out of the game for new players to not be able to leave town...i dunno, when i started and there was no 10 lvl rule it wasnt like pkers were at every turn, just like..every other one...going south of nightmist is a dumb thing to do with any low lvl crits anyway, and i dont see why anything other than a cleric would do that...if the 10 lvl rule were taken out and arenas gave full exp again, i think skeletons should spawn in the arena and hit for a little less...like..10ish instead of 17..they'd 1 hit too many low lvls with 17s...i would also say that there should be a lower # of max monsters in the arenas because of how often annoying people would just go fill them up and leave...

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Kazuya on 06/24/03 at 08:30:07

yeha would be nice for the arenas to gt full exp but poor gold

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Selene on 06/24/03 at 08:42:50

It sure would be nice. I'd be stuck back in RH arenas all over again. That being the problem.. that the areans have been useless.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Exor on 06/24/03 at 10:20:55

I have to agree with this idea.It seems so unreal going out of town and it saying this person is too weak for you to kill.I say bring back in arenas exp and take out the 10 level limit.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Despair on 06/24/03 at 20:33:02

I wouldn't mind arenas being useful again, but then again as more areas are opened there will be more places to train making arenas less needed . . .

But might I add I miss "Krillick The Camel" he always sang his lil song to me as I killed Sand Spiders :'(

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Amy on 06/24/03 at 21:21:06

I do not think there is anything wrong with training and using a team of thieves. I prefer training them, I do not make them and train them to pk or attack although it does happen from time to time or in retaliation. I do disagree totally with logging off after attacking. If you take the chance to attack and get hit because of your stamina loss, then it is a chance you take, every class has a number of strengths and weaknesses. The main strength of a thief (and I have MANY) is to be able to move undetected and attack with full stamina containing a powerful hit. A main weakness is you can not assassinate with using only partial stamina and then move immediately.. It is no different than a group traveling with a team of rangers or a team of berserkers. If planned right anyone can create with others a very powerful team. In my opinion the main purpose of the game is not to attack other players or pk.. this is my opinion only, and yet, I deal with many pkers. It doesn't make either side wrong. I will say there are many times that I have died though, because after attacking I couldn't move. I think this is a good tactic though, personally Gaddy. Is the purpose isn't it? to use the strengths of the characters you create and train.

Have a great day!

~Amy of Draco

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/24/03 at 21:41:41

on 06/24/03 at 21:21:06, Amy wrote:

I like the way you explained that. I agree.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Eiements on 06/25/03 at 10:20:38

hmm i didnt feel like reading but yea... everyone does it and the people who say they dont do too you just dont know lol

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Kazul on 06/25/03 at 17:49:33

you also have to think of it this way, there was a time when owning an army of rangers ensured you could own in most fights, but the game has changed, and you can no longer thrive if this is all you own. Some players have adapted to this change, and i think it makes alot of people mad because they can't afford several thieves and a strong mage/druid to lead party, because i'm sure if they could, they'd be doing it, and not posting about how bad it is.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by -Gaddy- on 06/25/03 at 17:53:59

Haha, Kazul seems to see it pretty much the same way as I do. Old times back when every time rangers came around everyone left, now it is just like...hmm..people that arent invisble...Lets click here! They still fight back really well and own hard most of the time, but now other classes (thieves with rangers and druids catching mages) are catching up to the ones that own so hard, and it is pissing off the players with lots of stuff that used to seem invinsible to everyone.

Title: Re: Hit and Run
Post by Lorinel on 06/26/03 at 16:20:37

A while back I, jokingly, compared this method
to the Vietcong. It is a very interesting way of fighting, but if
you are good at it, it is hard to beat. I have just recently
tried this form of “guerrilla” combat and think it is actually
entertaining, and unbelievably powerful.