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(Message started by: Stodge on 06/08/03 at 18:27:28)
Title: Paying to play
Post by Stodge on 06/08/03 at 18:27:28
I dont really like the idea of paying to play nightmist
i think you will loose many game players

if people want to pay they can donate like jurian

that is my view on paying to play nightmist

What do you think?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by King o Sausage on 06/08/03 at 18:29:33
I hope it goes P2P. Lot less people. And it's not that much to play. Lots more fun for me. ;D
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Jurian on 06/08/03 at 19:40:27
look at the moment jlh spends alot of time and money on this game and we all expect him to do that for free.

if the game goes p2p he will allways get more money then now. And if it goes p2p you have to pay like 30 cents a crit a month. Everybody would be able to pay that. if you pay for 3 crits a month you don't even pay 12 dollars a year. You can ahrdly call that p2p :D

and since i would certainly pay i would porbably enjoy it alot :D
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Old School Freaks on 06/08/03 at 21:03:45

I like the idea of donating but p2p is a much better idea in that it will as you pointed out get rid of some players thus less lag.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Matt on 06/08/03 at 21:14:37

on 06/08/03 at 18:27:28, Stodge wrote:
if people want to pay they can donate like jurian


Been there, tried that.. It did not work. I think a whole 1 person donated.. The only way is to MAKE people pay by going p2p.. JLH has put thousands of dollars and THOUSANDS of hours into the game! The least you can do is pay a tiny amount like a dollar a character for six months or around that amount...
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Exor on 06/08/03 at 22:27:47

on 06/08/03 at 21:14:37, Matt wrote:
Been there, tried that.. It did not work. I think a whole 1 person donated.. The only way is to MAKE people pay by going p2p.. JLH has put thousands of dollars and THOUSANDS of hours into the game! The least you can do is pay a tiny amount like a dollar a character for six months or around that amount...


/nod

I for one cannot wait til P2P comes.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Pandilex on 06/08/03 at 22:32:47
To avoid repeating the same information that has been posted before....

1) Nightmist may go pay to play. If the donations coming in are not sufficient to cover the costs of running the game then it will.

2) It doesn't matter how many players we lose going pay to play. The reasons for going p2p are because we cannot finance the game. If we don't go pay to play, we lose everyone as the game server shuts down. If we do, people will leave, but at least the server is financed or part financed.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Belgarion on 06/08/03 at 22:39:33
I think even if the donations are sufficient then it should still go P2P.  I mean like Matt said JLH, Pandilex and other staff members have put time and money into this game and i think its time a little something was given back.  Also it would get rid of alot of losers who arent really serious about playing and just annoy people, and others who just dont want to pay would leave resulting in less lag and annoyances.  Another thing is once we start paying things would probably get going faster on the staff side of things, since we would be paying customers.  Every way you look at it, its good.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/09/03 at 00:39:36
Do you take checks?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Kazuya on 06/09/03 at 02:50:35
or money orders?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/09/03 at 02:59:14
http://www.nightmist-online.co.uk/nmsite/donate.html
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by PureMourning on 06/09/03 at 03:59:11
I have something that could work, I'm sure some people are familiar with this. (I got this from another game)

First off, I'm not trying to advertise other games, but couldn't there be a way to have money come in yet, not being forced to go P2P? Yes. ON ROK, they have a system called Charter Membership (Something like that). Where people can pay a fee and get special benefits, that only charter membership people can get. The benefits are special add-ons to weaopns, special areas. (Personel Houses) ect...

Perhaps NM could have a system like this? Where people pay a fee and get special benefits (Staff would have to come up with these) and obviously, ONLY people who pay, and have this special membership, would get these special features.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/09/03 at 04:32:40
i am against this idea, as it means people who are unable to 'donate' (more like pay in the charter membership case) are at a disadvantage.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/09/03 at 04:32:48
NOOOOO NO SPECIAL MEMBERSHIPS!

That gives way to more and MORE of the 'Im better than you' Attitude among players.

PLEASE DEAR GOD NO JLH! DONT LISTEN TO HIM!
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by PureMourning on 06/09/03 at 05:02:05
Ahh, I never saw it that way. Thanks for pointing that out, just a suggestion.  :)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Santa on 06/09/03 at 05:20:02
do u know how much its gunna cost? or will ya havta pay like every few weeks?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/09/03 at 05:44:11
But really JLH. Could we send checks to you?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/09/03 at 08:59:00
yep, as it says in the file link i posted.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/09/03 at 23:46:02
Oh sorry, It wasnt there when I clicked it the first time. Now it is. My apologies
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by SmILe on 06/10/03 at 14:33:53
I wanna know (is blushing) Do you take food stamps? * hides his face   :-[
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Codric on 06/18/03 at 11:16:54
rofl... yall know that jlh will make way more money if he makes it p2p.. just look theres a ton of crits out there in the game and more than half are gonna stay.. he can make a fortune.. its clearly jlh's choice wether to p2p or not.. he calls the shots..
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Insomnia on 06/18/03 at 14:04:50

on 06/18/03 at 11:16:54, Codric wrote:
and more than half are gonna stay..

Where did you get that from? From what I've heard, it looks like 70-80% will quit...
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Tienno on 06/18/03 at 15:15:15
Pay to play is going to be great....... 90% of annoying characters are under 16 and under 16's dont have chequebooks and parents usually refuse to pay for games!!


woohoo

Tienno
xxxxxxx

im gonna get slated for saying that so please anyone who agrees support me before i get burned
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Jurian on 06/18/03 at 16:18:11
i agree although i mailed my money to jlh :D so can 16 year olds :D (i'm 20 and don't have a checkbook :D)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by DrAgIn on 06/22/03 at 17:02:55
ok think about this for a minute... there are 16821 current characters on nightmist... JLH will most likely charge 30 cents or around that for 1 character per-month... JLH is looking at a d**n good chunk of money in his pocket every month... unless 90% of the people do end up quitting.. but if they dont quit... think of yourself as an employer your paying JLH's way by playing his game.... and we dont want JLH to be unemployed do we?lol... if this game dosent go p2p then your really just sitting on an empty gold mine JLH....
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Belgarion on 06/22/03 at 18:14:56
How many of those 16821 characters do you think are actually active?  ::)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by King o Sausage on 06/22/03 at 18:27:04
As well as not all of those characters being active, do you think that everyone only has 1 character? Of course not. Most people have around 10-20 crits. And I don't think JLH is looking for a source of income from P2P. It's more of a way to get funds for a game he is currently paying for totally out of his own pocket. Even if he does make a little extra cash, that's fine with me. He's the one doing all the work (With the help of Pandilex and all the other staffers.)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Angel on 06/22/03 at 19:23:17
Exactly....plus Pandilex needs his 3 21" TFT's :-)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Zylia on 06/22/03 at 21:10:15

on 06/22/03 at 17:02:55, DrAgIn wrote:
ok think about this for a minute... there are 16821 current characters on nightmist... JLH will most likely charge 30 cents or around that for 1 character per-month... JLH is looking at a d**n good chunk of money in his pocket every month...

Keep in mind that some of those characters are merely name holders. I know that I have a couple and I'm sure that there are plenty more. Vault crits as well are common. Not every character that is made is used. Also think of the many people who begin nightmist and decide its not for them.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Outsider on 06/22/03 at 21:23:28
16821, if only 2000 would stay JLH would already get

2000 * ,3 * 12 = 7200 $ a year

Thats alot, cuz there are probably gonna stay more then 2000 active

p.s. someone plz tell me if i made a mistake cuz this cant be right
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/23/03 at 03:08:45
Thats correct dude. 7200 a year if 2000 stay.

Im guessing at least triple that will stay though.... so thats...

6000 * 0.30 * 12 = $21600 A YEAR

Thats bloody unbelievable...

But of course I dont think he is charging 30 cents a char... is he?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/23/03 at 03:09:59
Oh btw, if he did charge 30 cents a month per char, and every single player stayed with all thier current chars that would be upwards of 60k a year....
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by King o Sausage on 06/23/03 at 04:16:42
Which won't happen..
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Deval on 06/23/03 at 05:08:56

Have you considered how they are going to attract 'new' players to the game after p2p? Not everyone is going to stay around forever, everyone has to give it up eventually, and where will the new players be to replace them once they are gone? Off spending their money on a product they are familliar with and can rely upon. People don't want to pay to play a game they have never played, let alone heard of, with no form of solid backing.

I suppose a question is presented herein, how DO you expect to keep your community circulating?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by King o Sausage on 06/23/03 at 05:14:15
Word of mouth?

Don't know how reliant you can be on this one but it might help out.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Lady_Maha on 06/23/03 at 06:29:19
You could do what many p2p games do. Give them the first, let's say 3 months free. By that time they either find out it's not for them and quit, or are addicted enough to pay. Of course you would have to set up these trial accounts in a way that crits are not transferrable, or people would just start a new account every 3 months and transfer crits, but I'm pretty sure this could be arranged.

The money left over after financing the game could be used for advertizing it, which is a little more reliable than word of mouth too.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Outsider on 06/23/03 at 06:55:47
Every crit u roll can run free for 1 month
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Tienno on 06/23/03 at 15:58:19
beware though freeloaders will just keep creating characters in order to talk to friends causing massive lag for no reason but i guess that issue could be looked into

xxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/23/03 at 17:34:07

on 06/23/03 at 15:58:19, Tienno wrote:
beware though freeloaders will just keep creating characters in order to talk to friends causing massive lag for no reason but i guess that issue could be looked into
i don't see a problem with that, and people just chatting would not cause any lag, (the biggest outgoing packets from the server are caused by movement anyway).
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Arilas on 06/23/03 at 18:46:31
1 month for free could be abused though, someone will find a way. But maybe after that one month, instead of having people pay each month, you could have a yearly charge per crit, or run a deal on per account...
Per Crit could be like this: .30 * 12 = $3.6 a year per crit.
If you wanted to run a deal all those people with massive amounts of characters that do various things you could have a bargain.
Per Account: 1 * 12 * 20 = $24 for an account. So If you have more than 20 crits you might want to do that.

Just an Idea, if you did something like that you could change things around though if you wanted...
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Outsider on 06/23/03 at 20:05:27
Paying per year or month is kinda the same, cuz u buy points, which ull put in ur crit (so if u dont wanne use a crit for a month or something u just simply wont put a point in it that month)

Im just wondering whith this much trading going on how will u keep track of the points (u buy a crit, need to put a point in, week later u decide to sell, new owner has to put a new point in)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Lady_Maha on 06/23/03 at 21:03:34
I do see how trading crits can screw up the point system. Maybe the charging could be attached to the account instead. Of course this would bring up the issue of a person who has only 3 crits in the account paying the same as a person with 20 crits, which obviously wouldn't be fair. A possible solution could be to charge for different size accounts. let's say 1-5 crits 1.50$ a month, 6-10 crits 3.00$ a month, 11-15 crits 4.50 a month and so on. That way you can happily trade back and forth and never worry about assigning points to crits you will trade anyway.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/23/03 at 21:05:04
the points would stick to the crit too, so if a crit had a point on it, and expired in say 3 weeks, then the new person can play it for 3 weeks. So the crit is worth more as it has game time allocated to it.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Jurian on 06/23/03 at 21:07:02

on 06/23/03 at 21:05:04, JLH wrote:
the points would stick to the crit too, so if a crit had a point on it, and expired in say 3 weeks, then the new person can play it for 3 weeks. So the crit is worth more as it has game time allocated to it.


so if i accidently put a point on a crit i don't want to use i can't take it off?

edit: and what happens if i buy like 15 points and decide only to use 12? will they expire in a month too or could i use em later?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/23/03 at 21:09:12
taking points off, that could be done if you've not played the crit, or people would put a point on, play it, then take a point off.
unallocated points would just sit there as points, only when a point is placed on a crit does the crit get an expiration date.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Jurian on 06/23/03 at 21:12:58
so if i get this right i could put a point on a crit and then put it on another crit as long as i didn't play the crit? but in the mean time the point will still expire? or does the point start expiring from the momeny i log a crit on?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Sausage on 06/23/03 at 23:59:34
Sorry if this has already been adressed, but can "points" be transfered amongst crits?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/24/03 at 01:28:45

on 06/23/03 at 21:12:58, Jurian wrote:
so if i get this right i could put a point on a crit and then put it on another crit as long as i didn't play the crit? but in the mean time the point will still expire? or does the point start expiring from the momeny i log a crit on?

i've not fully decided on this yet
as for transfering the points across crits, this won't be allowed or you could have 1 point to play all your crits.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Old School Freaks on 06/24/03 at 02:53:36

Enought talk about it. Let's just do this already. I'm ready to get rid of some of the lag. Although for some strange reason it has gotten better. I still like that feeling of floating as I brush my fingers over my keyboard.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Sausage on 06/24/03 at 06:04:08

on 06/24/03 at 01:28:45, JLH wrote:
you could have 1 point to play all your crits.

So true, so true. Didn't even cross my mind.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by magitoma on 06/24/03 at 09:36:11
I think the whole P2P thing is a load of Bs.........no one here will stand up and say so so im gonna cuz it is. I say all us people who dont wanna pay make a buch of crits that we can run for are free month and move them around as much as posible.............It's an idea...........
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Jurian on 06/24/03 at 10:11:14

on 06/24/03 at 09:36:11, magitoma wrote:
I think the whole P2P thing is a load of Bs.........no one here will stand up and say so so im gonna cuz it is. I say all us people who dont wanna pay make a buch of crits that we can run for are free month and move them around as much as posible.............It's an idea...........


dude the amount mentioned that you have to pay for a crit are soooo low you can't even call it pay to play :D like with my current donations (one in mail at the moment) i can play like 30 crits a month for 2 years lol :D
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Norinth on 06/25/03 at 21:58:50
According to someone here, there are 16821 crits in Nightmist. If 90% were not played, then we would get aprox. 1682 crits playing per month. 1682 x 30 cents = 504 € or Dollars or whatever we are talking about. That isn't THAT much.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by JLH on 06/25/03 at 22:23:08
just to correct your maths a bit:
1682*30c = 50,460c which is $504.6
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Norinth on 06/25/03 at 22:28:06
(My mistake)

Well that's considered a lot... (For anyone who didn't see the obvious, I was JokInG)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Lady_Maha on 06/25/03 at 22:43:31
I think it would be safe to guess that about 40% stay, so round about 6728 crits.

6728*0.30 a month would be 2018.40 a month. I know, that sounds like a lot, but if you look at all the costs, it isn't all that much.

If you add up electricity, server maintenance and upgrades it already adds up to a nice sum. I am sure if we had to pay JLH, Pandilex and all the other staffers for the hours of work they put into the game, we'd be paying way more than that.

With p2p the quality of the game should improve. JLH won't have to scrape for funding to make things better, it will be readily available.

All in all, I am all for p2p, since I feel it's unfair to burden JLH with paying for everything AND putting all the work in, just to get bi**hed out about "how staff doesn't care" when they all do volunteer work.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Outsider on 06/25/03 at 22:56:07

on 06/25/03 at 22:28:06, Norinth wrote:
(My mistake)

Well that's considered a lot...


It might be a lot if just one guy had to pay it, but thats not the case.

Anyways decisions are made no point in whining about it, lol i dont even have crits atm and im still gonna 'play' if p2p comes in.  ;D
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/25/03 at 23:13:59
Norinth, the way you figured it he gets about... 6k a year.

And the way maha figures it, he would get about.... 24k a year.

Anyone who tells me that is not a lot of money is a Sh!thead. *The 24k of course*

24k a year for a simple text based game is an unbelievable amount of money.

But anyways, the reason I was going to post is to ask you JLH. how much does it cost to run the server, on a yearly rate.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Lady_Maha on 06/26/03 at 00:10:31
I think it was adding up to somewhere around 4k a year, if not more.

Estimate though how much if every staffer was paid for the work they do. The game isn't only worth the equipment and hosting, without the people who work on it there wouldn't be a game.

Even if you only paid 5 staffers who are on, let's say 5 hours a day (for about 300 days a year) to develope areas, watch trades, and so on, and we pay them 8$ an hour, that would be 12000 a year.

Also as I said before, with what's left over he would have a nice buffer to upgrade equipment when needed, instead of having to save up to afford it, hence making the game better than it currently is.

I am not saying "pay all staffers salaries", but when the game goes p2p they should get some recognition for the work they do. Maybe a certain amount of points per staffer for their mortal crits for free, because they DO work their rears off for the game.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/26/03 at 06:15:12
4k a year? that a typo?
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Bean on 06/26/03 at 06:16:33
Crap nevermind, I understand what you were saying.
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Deval on 06/26/03 at 06:26:43
The most painful thing about this whole scenario is that some little tool it gonna end up walking around with crits with names such as 'Me_A_Freak' 'Necrinomicon' 'Hypocrates' 'Deval' 'Ebony' 'Seth' 'Odin' 'Eternyte' 'Ikaros' 'Stigmata' 'Baros' 'Cupcake' 'Epic' 'Lady_Maha' 'Android_20' 'Flux' 'Shera' etc etc, all names wich have a reasonable amount of weight to them, will fall into the hands of stupid newbies or total idiots who don't deserve them. Alot of us who are not willing to pay, would at least like to be rememebered for the hated/loved people we were, and even the minor ways in which we played part in this game, rather than having our personas raped to death.

(I just used names that are somewhat recognised, even if they are ex players. That is to say, I've no idea which of those are staying on after p2p, only definate ones on there that are not staying are Odin and Deval :P)
Title: Re: Paying to play
Post by Norinth on 06/26/03 at 09:38:41
I was Joking... Geez  :o

To quote someone: "YaY, Less Lag!" (But 2 weeks ago I thought I wasn't gonna pay lol)

Who used this sentence for the first time?!? It is the most famous sentence in this world (and the other  ;D).


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