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Title: Alts. Post by E_Mc2_Trooper on 05/14/03 at 05:35:32 Alts... What a.... almost good-ish thing. Anyways, I always see around 129 people online, and 240+ characters online.... Very annoying, expecially when you got a slow internet.... I think that there should be a limit on online characters.... It slows down the server..... I play Starcraft with less lag. >.< |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Android 20 on 05/14/03 at 05:37:58 Been talked about before.Anyways....This should be under the suggestions forums... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by ICP on 05/14/03 at 06:33:35 Why take from other just cause you got a slow internet?.... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Eternyte on 05/14/03 at 07:44:12 My internet connection is very temperamental. Usually I have a fairly good connection, with my awesome 56k dial up :o I do agree with the Alts part. I think there should only be 1 alt allowed to play. Possibly 2, but that seems pointless to me. I believe, as I have said on other topics about this that an Alt restriction should only come into play when the classes are balanced. They all have numerous abilties. Also they are able to be used for a long time in the wild and survive. For instance, a mage goes to the desert with his pots and mana. 5 mins later he's got to run back to another town to buy more etc etc. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/14/03 at 07:48:16 on 05/14/03 at 06:33:35, ICP wrote:
I have a lush internet connection, and I reckon an alts limit needs to be put in. Alts by no measure accounts for skill. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/14/03 at 09:37:08 I'd love to see a one alt max, but I think it'd need to be two just to aid with switching equipment, however, if this was put in I'd also like to see the party commands changed to stop people inviting alts into their party. They'd still be able to trade equipment around but it would stop them from abusing it as much. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Eternyte on 05/14/03 at 10:45:24 Also Tracking alts would have to be included too. I agree Harky. It would be nice too see how many of the players fair without their Alt Armies. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Gwerradon on 05/14/03 at 10:47:57 if you're lagging it usually tends to be server side. i have a 1mb broadband connection with cable blueyonder, and even i still get lag. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Lady_Maha on 05/14/03 at 12:48:42 on 05/14/03 at 10:45:24, Eternyte wrote:
I'd be dead 24/7 without my alts! :'( |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Old School Freaks on 05/14/03 at 13:53:28 on 05/14/03 at 05:35:32, E_Mc2_Trooper wrote:
Then play Starcraft... Leave the alt limit alone |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Eternyte on 05/14/03 at 14:21:19 on 05/14/03 at 12:48:42, Lady_Maha wrote:
You'd think so, but everyone else would only have 1 alt. So you'd be in the same situation. Also more teamwork would be shown throughout the game. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Violate on 05/14/03 at 14:50:44 I disagree with this, because of the fact several classes would be rendered useless and the idea of training would pretty much end. I mean how do you go to the museum or desert and train with 1 alt...not a very good idea. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/14/03 at 15:08:02 Go with friends or something, it'll give people a chance to actually interact with the other players for a change. I started making a list of all the good things that will come out of this suggestion if it's implemented, but I deleted them all because it's pointless if you really don't see the obvious benefits to it yourselves. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloaked Figure on 05/14/03 at 15:10:26 I was under the impression an alt limit of 3 was acceptable and was going to be implemented 'the next update', but conveniently got forgotten about (or disregarded). I’m in support of the 2 alt limit (for trading equip) - as I have been since it was first suggested. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Eternyte on 05/14/03 at 16:23:29 Also on the note of classes being completely useless. That is why if this idea is implemented, there would need to be restructuring of monster hp's. Also possiblly players hp's and damage inflicted. Then mana usage would need to be changed. Then more abilities would be needed for the various classes so they dont just 'sit and click'. Which makes the game very boring. If all this was changed I think it would lead to a better game. Which isnt solely run by alts, meaning that there is no skill in running about with 10 alts online at the same time. Teamwork is something you see very little of. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Violate on 05/14/03 at 16:51:11 YOu set it up that way and you get Resurrection and his cleric running are but instead of just him everyone else in the game. Implementing even more hit and runs |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Fallen on 05/14/03 at 16:55:45 This alt limit thing is stupid! For players who have worked so hrd and so long to get lots of alts, then all of a sudden they can only use 2 at a time. Training would be so, so boring, at the moment you can get back round and your stamina is back. With two alts this would mean you would have to wait for stamina. And gold getting would be so hard. For players who already have 10mill this is ok but how is anyone gonna catch them if it still takes them a while to kill a Sand Spider? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/14/03 at 18:07:20 I say screw the limit :/ and if you could only log 1 or 2 alts on haveing a pally and say a berserker or ranger would be wayyyyyy to strong, as you would never have enough fire power to round the pally :-/ (I could be wrong on this) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Fallen on 05/14/03 at 18:27:36 a Dwarf Cleric spelled up would take a lot to round. Edit;Spelling -Apelled to Spelled- |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/14/03 at 18:33:22 on 05/14/03 at 18:27:36, Fallen wrote:
same for that |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Fallen on 05/14/03 at 20:35:26 With a berseker aswell. Just my luck I have a 5 stat dwarf 21 xx 18 21 18 17 to get to 30 for this lvl 20 cleric atm. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Pile on 05/15/03 at 00:01:20 I know it’s easy to look back and say everything used to be great, but to me during the months following the reset the mainstream of people only seemed to use 1 (possibly 2) alt, and it used to be fun. Because the majority of people simply hadn’t levelled masses of characters they would tend to concentrate on training their first archie – it was possible to play the game on one alt without being instantly slaughtered. Now I’m not, and never have been, a “powerful” player but whatever I’m doing out of town I will pretty much always have 2 or 3 alts logged on simply for protection, not because I want to play 3 alts. I know a one alt limit cannot immediately be implemented but I think it would be the wise move. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Mystick on 05/15/03 at 00:50:05 I agree with the max of 2 alts other than the one you're currently playing. There's no reason why, if you're on 3 crits total you can't do well in the game. I have cable modem connection and normally have no issues with lag. However, the other night when I was on there were barely over 100 people logged on and yet something like 287 crits, and I know some people were running like 5 and 6 crits. I mean come on that's overkill. Towards the number of alts one owns...well all I can say is I agree with you Pile. Things are different now though and unfortunately all it's done is take down the value of the game. If someone can't do well with a total of 3 crits on...there's some issues lol |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/15/03 at 01:03:21 Yay for 2 alts. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Bean on 05/15/03 at 01:43:07 I prefer leveling one char at a time, and the only class I have had a problem with leveling by its own is a lvl 15+ berzerker If I must level more than one character I get my two friends to log on a crit each and we go hunting. I only log on 2-3 crits by myself when I am bored and choose to try something different with my characters that could take some firepower. The one alt limit would do more good than bad by a LARGE margin. It would cause players to interact more, Clans would acctually mean something *Ok the top ten clans mean something, beyond that they kinda dont do much unless they have some venturous founders* You would have clan raids scheduled more regularly. People would be more willing to group with either clannies or strangers, and you would meet more people. And for whoever said you would have to wait for stamina... Go outside. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Oblivion on 05/15/03 at 02:44:18 I've always been for an alt rule. And I still am, but as andy pointed out all classes would need to be change so they are fun to play on with many abilitys, and the ability to make it out in the wild for long periods of times.. 1-2 alts max, would be very good move for the game I think. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/15/03 at 02:47:26 only prob with that is pallys would rule the game then... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/15/03 at 05:04:10 on 05/15/03 at 02:44:18, Oblivion wrote:
I've only ever been a few crit player, using only Deval at most times, and he has no problem surviving out bush at all, add onto that he's a human. Humans have lower const, therefore take more damage and have less hp in the long run. Areas that require a large party, or a bunch of 'alts', are created for that very reason. Because they are not meant to be easy, they are meant to require a team, and I don't classify a bunch of alts a 'team'. In my opinion, very few areas will need to be modified, if any at all. As I've said so many times, a bunch of sh!tty alts will always beat one finely crafted crit, and I think it's nonsense, why bother rolling 4, 5 or even 6 stat crits, when the local chin licker with 8, 2 stat crits can clean you up? Each class and it's abilities are given for it to be a self sufficient class, there is not a single class out there that can't traverse the wilderness, nor hold it's own in a fight with it's abilities. The only exception to this rule may be the cleric, but its affect is a positive not negative one. What do you suggest be modified with abilities and an alt limit? Giving all classes aid? Each class is designed in such a way so that it may maintain itself outside of a large party, and without the aid of alts. Hell even mages with lame const and even lamer hp can survive, cus they get invisible. Fighters and co get thier hardcore armour, Druids can camo, clerics can heal themselves, paladins get good armour and can heal themselves, thieves can covert, Zerks have insane hp. No abilities need to be touched when considering moving to an alt limit rule. Anyway, I've lost my train of thought. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Selene on 05/15/03 at 05:15:47 I'm fine are far as the 2 alt goes when pk'ing.. because that's all I use.. and when I actually decide to train.. I'd need more than just 2 crits. I'd rather it stay the same, but limiting does help too with all the lag we all get now. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by InsaneNinjaPhreak on 05/15/03 at 05:18:37 /t Selene on 05/14/03 at 22:59:43, JLH wrote:
Got this from the Regarding Pay-To-Play thread. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Bean on 05/15/03 at 05:33:55 The alt limit would Show us the TRUE good players, plain and simple. |
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Title: [b][/b]Re: Alts. Post by Valeska on 05/15/03 at 10:00:48 I'm totally against a 2 alt rule for the simple fact that I and alot of other people like to train in the desert. How could you possibly stay alive even with an arch cleric healing you if there are 4-5 spiders/scorpions per square? You can't. As for grouping up with other people, you shouldn't have too. Some people like to train alone. Besides, someone isn't always online to go training with you, and as i stated already most people won't because they like to train alone. Implimenting a 2 alt rule is completely uneccessary.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/15/03 at 12:34:14 The desert wasn't created with the intention of people going there alone to kill monsters. You -should- have to team up with other people to do some things, and if you're so antisocial there are plenty of other easier areas for you to train at. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Valeska on 05/15/03 at 13:02:20 hmm ok yeah, me and my party of lvl 29's would fair pretty well in the rose garden.. except it would take another 5 months. Oh btw.. Cyric.. (Cloaked Figure) Why don't you just use your regular forum name? It's kind of obvious it's you already lol |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Selene on 05/15/03 at 13:38:55 on 05/15/03 at 05:18:37, InsaneNinjaPhreak wrote:
Oh, I haven't fully read that thread, but, it'll be so nice when it happens... training and such will be a lot easier. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Blast on 05/15/03 at 19:11:34 i got adsl and its really good, but i would LOVE to see 1 alt max online |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/15/03 at 19:18:37 yep just let those pallys rule the game... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Blast on 05/15/03 at 19:20:56 just take a friend with u and they stop ruling |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Fallen on 05/15/03 at 20:16:20 but that takes the point of alt limit again as you just get friends. with freinds and people I share with we could have 12 crits thsat would own everybody else. (that is 12 lvl 30's) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/15/03 at 21:45:21 The arguments against the idea really are stupid, I mean honestly. The only reason people are speaking out against it is because of the power they assume they will lose, and even then only one valid argument has been brought up, which I will address in a sec - all the others are along the lines of 'boo-hoo i wil not b abl 2 do thngs that r designd 4 lage parties by myslf nemore?!!!11!!!111'. Grow up. To the only point raised that holds any merit: The balancing of classes would have to come simultaneously with this of course, it's a lot easier for the people in charge to see what class needs improving and how when people aren't using armies of alts. I'm more than happy to debate this suggestion with someone that isn't blinded by their lust for power, but when you step back and look at the advantages of introducing the limit.. it doesn't leave much room for argument. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Omniscient on 05/15/03 at 22:21:58 I am also in favor of an alt limit of 2 or so. I just started playing a few weeks ago, but it seems to me that only being able to use one or two alts at a time would make the game better. People complain that they wont be able to tackle hard areas anymore because they cant have their army of alts... Well maybe I'm just a stupid n00b but it seems to me that thats one of the points of being in a clan... you get a large group of clannies to all go out to those areas that were designed for large groups. I mean... it is a multiplayer online game for a reason... When I play, I'm usually only on one alt at a time, occasionally 2. I have some friends that I started playing this game with, and I've met others on the game, as well as the people in the clan I joined... these are the people I go with to get XP or gold... we have a fairly large group and not everyone needs to have 10 alts. Of course, as mentioned, classes would need to be balanced first... *shrug* like I said I'm rather new I don't quite know what it would take to do that, but it would be nice to see a 1 or 2 alt limit in the future. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/15/03 at 23:24:29 You know there should be an alt rule when one person can take out a boss (not even all lvl 30's). |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/16/03 at 00:53:08 on 05/15/03 at 21:45:21, Harky wrote:
for starters who the heck are you ? have I even SEEN you in game ? and that would make some classes better then others... such as pallys lets see well for starters with alts people have a hard time killing them (like 1 person cheated me in a duel he was expert ranger and he had 2 expert thiefs covert and he still could not round me with holy speed on. so that would make pallys very over powered) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/16/03 at 00:55:22 He is a former game admin (not Cyric). He has been playing alot longer than you or most other people for that matter. So take it from me, he knows what he's talking about. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Reactor on 05/16/03 at 00:59:00 i think its good being allowed on all ya alts...if it was 2 alts max then u could only really train 1 crit at a time if u used a cleric |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/16/03 at 01:00:14 on 05/15/03 at 22:21:58, Omniscient wrote:
you are 100% wrong! haveing less alts would make things WORSE not better and lets see if you change your mind once you get afew high levels of your own ( sorry if I sound mad I am just in a bad mood today :/ ) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/16/03 at 01:01:56 Nah, if you were smart you'd train your cleric too. They CAN attack too, they're not just for healing. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/16/03 at 01:10:24 (as in they would have to redo all the classes) as some would be way to strong some would be way to weak etc... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Reactor on 05/16/03 at 01:13:15 dont fix wat aint broke ;D |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Pile on 05/16/03 at 01:14:19 Sure it's not perfect but the classes aren't as unbalanced as you make out. They would need adjustment, not complete reworking. And telling the guy to wait until he has some high levels...you're not exactly brimming with high levels (neither am I, just making a point). |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/16/03 at 01:18:04 /point sorry if I sound mad I am just in a bad mood today :/ |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Astrona on 05/16/03 at 01:22:33 Hmm..Well..in my opinion if someone wants to take the time to train a whole bunch of crits up to the power of being useable in areas such as Jahana etc to make their training gold hunting, pking, etc, and easier and more convienient task then all the more power to them. Frankly, I can't handle more then one screen up at a time..I tend to forget about certain ones..and then all the sudden POOF.."Woops..forgot to heal that one.." and I end up loosing more exp then it was worth the time for anyways. Just because some of us have a hard time getting one crit to archy then yet 5..doesn't mean the people that have had the time/money should be deprived of their work. Yes it can be frustrating when a group of alts get the boss drop, or a pk, but they worked hard for that, you got a problem with it, then get your own alts...if you can't handle it..well then don't blame them because they can't..*shrugs* |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/16/03 at 01:25:24 on 05/16/03 at 01:22:33, Astrona wrote:
for once I agree with you :D |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/16/03 at 01:32:44 Rappy, you don't seem to realise your swimming against the tide, alot of players with a reasonable amount of repute have all vouched for this idea, and you even went so far as to speak less than pleasantly to one of the oldest players of the game. Every post you have made is just a representation of the insecurity you feel for your main crit, which is obviously lacking, seeing as you so vehemently protest the alt rule. Everyone in this game could more than easily manage with alt limitation, and like Harky said, areas were not created just for one person. Why are you even playing an interactive game if all you want to do is take a bundle of alts, and have nothing to do with anyone else. This is not a one player game, almost everything in this game is created with 'PLAYER' cooperation in mind. If the desert is too hard for you to train in on your own, then IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE, and the only solution, is for you to make some friends. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rappy_Ninja on 05/16/03 at 01:37:45 on 05/16/03 at 01:32:44, Deval wrote:
it is not to hard and I have alot of friends |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Astrona on 05/16/03 at 01:39:15 I agree with that as well, but there isn't ALWAYS people online to train with. And it should be someone's choice if they want alts or not. I'm not going to be one to nag about it because there's no reason to. Things are fine as is. :o *passes out because Rappy agreed with her* Edit: And most of the time anyways when I see people out with alts they have friends with them as well.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/16/03 at 01:44:16 on 05/16/03 at 01:39:15, Astrona wrote:
So then what's the problem? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Astrona on 05/16/03 at 01:53:11 Lol. I don't have a problem. I think alts should be allowed. You guys are the one's with the problems..Saying that people who have to have alts or w/e are being anti-social.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/16/03 at 02:05:49 And why does anyone need alts? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/16/03 at 02:16:15 I don't really see what who I am ingame has to do with what I suggest on these forums, as long as I speak sense. Truth be told I rarely play anymore - but it doesn't mean I've lost all interest in the games development.. even if I do get the impression at times a lot of the players would prefer to see the game's progress stunted purely for their own personal progression. The only other thing I want to say is in reply to Reactor's reply regarding the two alts thing: what's so bad about 'only training one alt at a time'?. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Astrona on 05/16/03 at 02:19:32 Training one alt at a time is a long process especially considering the amount of time that it takes to get to lvl 30 in the first place. Most of us don't have that amount of free time. I know I don't. And really Deval what is so BAD about alts in the first place..? OMG they make a slight bit of lag if any..and JLH stated that that problems going to be fixed due to his new internet connection. They worked to have them, so don't complain when they pk you or whatever your problem may be with them. Obviously they worked harder then, and deserve the pk, gold, etc. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Reactor on 05/16/03 at 02:32:38 on 05/16/03 at 02:16:15, Harky wrote:
well if u got like lots of 4 or 5 stat lvl 1s u wanna train ud have to train 1 at a time rather than have a party and get near equal exp and stay around the same lvl...it would just be more difficult... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/16/03 at 02:37:51 /point Newb I would like to state that that crit was lvl'ed to 30 by himself mostly (before I got him restored). Sure, it takes time. What's so bad about that? I went training with adv. pots most of the time until I learned it was cheaper to heal with a cleric. Even then I just kept my cleric on a safe square while I trained and would come back for a heal every so often. I have 3 fighters that I got to lvl 15 by themselves in 2 days. May not seem like a big accomplishment, but its a hell of a lot different than doing it with a cleric in high xp spots like I normally do. I like it, mostly because it doesn't worry you about having to go fast and allows me to enjoy the game more. In response to Reactor's post... It takes much much longer to get low lvls xp in a group than it does individually. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/16/03 at 02:48:15 Bad things about multiple alts: They destroy the idea of teamwork. Sure some people may still form parties when they're too much of weenies to do something with 11 alts alone but it still removes some key elements that -would- exist were they limited as to the amount of classes they can control at once. They're horrible for people that enjoy roleplaying, roleplayers in nightmist are somewhat limited but those that wish to do so should be encouraged; noone can say that they can roleplay when using 6+ alts. They destroy the idea of individual character development, hell why bother trying to get that special item or getting better stats to make your character a little more powerful when you can just load up seven others and obliterate all the other players?. And finally, I'm sorry, but anyone that 'needs' more than one alt to pk is pathetic, if you aren't going to leave yourself in any danger of dying then really what's the point in it? being invincible is boring. Now, can you tell me what's good about using multiple alts besides for it making you more powerful?. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/16/03 at 02:56:51 Unfortunately, this game has just become an alt war. I used to be able to pk with 1 alt back when Newb was still like lvl 28/29. Now people have 4-5 alts running around with macros and crazy items that do ridiculous. I log on 4 alts just to defend myself nowadays. My idea is to lower the allowed number of alts on at one time to 5, then gradually go lower to 1-3. This way, only few people will be affected and give people a chance to adapt to the new rules. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/16/03 at 05:06:56 For Astrona: I will happily own you with just Deval any day of the week, if you want to test this theory, be sure to contact me in game, and I'll show you how a 'good' player handles one solitary crit. Anyway, both Cloud and Harky have presented you with arguments that are valid, and have some form of backing, aswell as myself. Yet none of you against the idea have shown any reasons as to why it would handicap the game, other than 'im tuffn stuff weth alts too b good'. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Bean on 05/16/03 at 07:29:54 I think its funny that players say It would take too long to level... JLH! change it back to 750 million exp, show these twits what levelling is all about.... I have seen the same reason stated over and over again "I wouldnt be as powerful" Guess what sunshine... Neither would anyone else. So If you can use your characters with a half decent measure of skill you'll do just fine. The alt limit would cause the game to be played the way it was MEANT to be played, with other people. The desert isnt MEANT to be taken by one person, Its meant for a group of people. All the areas would become more challenging, and most of the underused areas would become flooded with characters exploring for a new good area. This would cause more exploration from the characters of the game AND more roleplaying. I cant remember what else I was gonna say... short memory span... Ill post again later Bubye ya little alt farms |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Mystick on 05/16/03 at 09:28:45 Ok Harky, Deval, Cloud and others have very valid points. You know I remember a time back when it was like a clan quest to go out to Jahanna and beat down the spiders. I remember when it was a clan quest to go to the RG and kill the gardener. Now, you've got people signing into 8+ alts just to accomplish what was once accomplished by a group. That is stupid people. And yes, Deval tell you what, IF you can manage to get Astrona to take you up on that offer...I'd like to watch that LMAO! I can understand maybe signing into 4 crits. I can understand signing into 3 crits. But come on...6+ crits just to so called "train"? I sit at level 30 and you know, I still won't come out and play in Jahanna unless I have a party with me because I run at the max 3 crits. Why? Lag does play an issue in that..However I enjoy playing the game in parties. In groups. That's how the game was designed. Deal with it. :P |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Astrona on 05/16/03 at 11:17:25 on 05/16/03 at 05:06:56, Deval wrote:
I was merely stating my opinion on the alt situation. And a lot of people could more then likely own me considering I have no time lately to be training. And if you're saying that I'm not a good player that was extremely immature of you. I've played this game for over two years, and just because I don't own any archies or have 2 mill gold in my bank account doesn't measure my accomplishments on this game. I have shown you no hostility on this forum and I find it frankly harsh and uncalled for that you posted this. Normally I support you. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Astrona on 05/16/03 at 11:19:25 on 05/16/03 at 09:28:45, Mystick wrote:
What'd I ever do to you? LMAO. Besides, I only die in clan moshes lately. :P Heh..and I like the caps IF...I have no need to take him up on that offer..and I won't.. ;D :P |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Deval on 05/16/03 at 14:04:15 on 05/16/03 at 02:19:32, Astrona wrote:
Sound like fighting words to me, sweetheart. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Alicia on 05/16/03 at 17:19:51 I dont think client connection has much to do with number of alts you can use, i usually use 4-6 alts depending what im doing. Any more than that and all the nm windows start not liking me, they become see-through, the white cloud icon turns black and the game becomes unplayable. And i makes no difference whether i use the t3 connection or a 56k mo-dem |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Zephie on 05/16/03 at 19:25:44 only thing that bothers me about 1 alt is....what the heck am i suppose to do with my other crits? ??? :-/ other then that i don't really see a problem. i like the power alts give me, but why shouldn't i? if we work to get our alts to 30.....why shouldn't we be able to use them if our comp can handle them? i've also noticed that a lot of the people who are pro 1 alt really either don't play much, or don't have that many crits to pick from. Harky, have you even played post reset? just wondering. you say anyone who uses alts to pk is pathetic, kinda hard to go out with 1 alt and get jumped by someone with 20....yes nm has turned into an alt war, but some people enjoy it.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Apple on 05/16/03 at 19:29:05 Finally someone has posted the right reason why we should be allowed alts. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Zephie on 05/16/03 at 19:34:52 i don't really think there's a right or wrong reason. i just don't see besides the whole 'character development' point how this could improve nightmist gameplay. you can't exactly force people to roleplay...... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Fallen on 05/16/03 at 19:35:09 I Agree people who have earned there alts should be allowed to use them. The main people who want alt do not play more than 2 alts and would suit them but not other people. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/16/03 at 19:55:16 Oddly enough, some computers just don't like to run multiple instances of Nightmist. My home computer has a cable internet connection, 128 MB of RAM and about a 800Mhz processor. With this, I can run 4 alts and my computer will remain stable. A 5th one 9 out of 10 times will crash my computer. This is with nothing else running. So, I run my 4 alts, which is how many my computer can handle.The problem is that there is no need for over 5 alts on at one time. Say you are out training. Can you effectively use all the stamina on each of your crits before it refreshes again? Maybe if it a party of 5 thieves. Other than that, I can't see what the point is in having these other alts logged in. I have a whole lot of alts to choose from and play. Do you see me complaining about that? Sure I have my mains, but I don't just ignore the rest of my crits. And yes Jen, you can force people to roleplay. There are a lot of games that are strictly roleplay enforced. If you don't roleplay, they ban you. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Zephie on 05/16/03 at 19:57:51 on 05/16/03 at 19:55:16, Cloud wrote:
good thing that's not how it works in nightmist huh? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Zylia on 05/16/03 at 20:02:36 I only skimmed this thread a little, didn't read it all.. this is just what I think about what I have seen from it.. Alts are a cool part of the game.. some people need to bear in mind that if it's limited to one alt then some areas will be obsolete to most clans. Places where the monsters hit hard will only be visited by the strongest clans and then what will we have? More complaints about how TR or any other high ranked clan is owning everything. Most clans don't have more than 100 members, and most of those members currently belong to no more than 10 people. Even when you log alts on (if everyone in the clan just happens to be on) thats only 10 people and not everyone has an archmaster in those clans. Some areas require more power than that. Also, I think Jen's point is one of the best. The people who complain the most about alts are the people who don't have very many strong ones. The players who aren't as dedicated are trying to ruin it for the ones who have worked hard to enjoy it! It all goes back to the fact that the overall nightmist community has gotten lazy. When I started Nightmist I didn't have the level 10 limit as didn't most of the older players here and the arenas were still active. Shortly after starting the arenas were lowered and so most of my leveling was done outside and wide open to pks by anyone. I'm still against the level 10 rule. (honestly, if you found some wimp and you knew you could kill him, there wouldn't be a magical shield preventing you from killing them.. ::)) The alt system is open to everyone and once you practice with it enough and train your characters up its rather enjoyable pking. Getting there isn't meant to be a breeze. You people are trying to take away the challenge in the game and all realism is being lost in the process. I've always loved the alts system and its a good one at that. Don't change it. Besides, concerning the lag, just wait until NM goes P2P. I'm sure less people will play then there are now when that happens. :-/ Anyway, just my opinion.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Consumed By Hatred on 05/16/03 at 20:03:58 Newb i often wonder if you use your brain, look, all my crits are my 'mains'. I use them all pretty much everyday, every single one of them. And i have a lot more than you do, You are asking for this so you can be better than others. I'm not stupid, im sure anyone with intelligence can see this. This is pretty much the only reason people want this; so they can attempt to rise above others, Bigger clans will have a much bigger advantage maybe this is fair, but i don't think so, If it was a 1-3 alt rule, it would seriously suck, and a 5 alt rule even. If you can train all these crits; your pc can hold them, why stop them of this privilage? Bigger clans could annihilate people much easoier, which isn't fair in some aspects, as most the players in Nightmist are in The Resistance or any of the other high level clans, all the level 25+'s join those good clans, newer clans don't get a chance; i will admit myself if this rule we're to come in i couldn't live, most others couldn't too, death would be around everywhere, i certainly think going below 223mill xp giving you half damage would have to be removed. TYFL. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Bean on 05/16/03 at 21:04:08 Right, Well seeing as you all 'need' your power. All the more to you, Ill continue my max usage of 3 chars *even with 19+ chars in my account*. I still thnk JLH should change the exp requirement for lvl 30 to 750 million exp. ::) Show you post-reset noobs what real leveling is. Oh btw. That would make 1 lvl 30 char in the entire game ;) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/16/03 at 22:55:34 I don't need to play extensively to see the problems currently plaguing the game, and besides - I'm yet to see someone that I trust to put the games progress before personal progression disagree with the idea. Maybe when someone takes the same neutral stance but sees some ACTUAL problems with the idea, I'll have some valid points to debate other than childish whining over lost power. The accusation that I'm doing this because I 'don't have many powerful characters' is so stupid, anyone that knows me will be able to back this up. When the original reset was mentioned, the most powerful players backed it up despite knowing that they would have to start over from scratch - because we looked beyond our own petty items and characters and instead looked at the obvious long-term benefits which would be achieved. I'm sorry most of you haven't been around long enough to appreciate that, and I'm starting to realize why the majority of the players from that era have disappeared from the game. And about forced RP - I've always been against that concept, roleplaying isn't for everyone, but that doesn't mean people need to directly go out of their way to act like morons to destroy any kind of an rp atmosphere. Now, to the individual posts: Zephie: We obviously have different mindsets. (back when I played)I wouldn't drop to the level of my opponent just to scoop a victory. Apple: Which reason exactly is the 'right reason you should be allowed alts'? Zylia: Obviously the ten level rule would be removed were this implemented I'm sure, lower levels would actually have a chance to run when they don't have some moron with a dozen characters trying to kill their character. Oh and I just want to point out how little sense the statement 'You people are trying to take away the challenge in the game and all realism is being lost in the process.' makes, how does being able to control 12 people at once, as opposed to just being you give any advantage in realism or add any challenge?. Consumed by Hatred: It wouldn't give anyone a bonus, especially not the 'high level' clans, if anything it would create more of a level playing field. As it is right now, they can still outnumber you - except for now the fight would be something like 70 alts against 30 alts as opposed to 7 people against 3 people. I just want to see some people try to prove me wrong on the alts idea. Just to save us both some time, I'll point out that I'm arguing on the side of the game and what this will do for it, forget your characters, forget your power and just debate on a neutral level. Take the stance as if there are no level 30's, as if the game has just been reset, and try to come up with a viable reason for not putting in an alt limit. If anyone can point out some bad sides to it that I haven't seen, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. Meanwhile I'm not going to bother replying to anything that doesn't conform with what I said in the previous paragraph, as people are just saying the same things over and over.. it's getting tiresome. Edit because I forgot to mention that leveling pre-reset was actually easier than it is now, regardless of the 750 million experience needed. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Bean on 05/16/03 at 23:36:15 Meh, Leveling was easier, But hey If 750 million exp came back I can just see them all freakin out. It would be funny... Meh thats just me though ::) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/16/03 at 23:36:25 CBH, your statements are weak and have no backing. You don't have access to my acct/s and therefore don't know my power as a player or how many crits I have. Zylia, if you want to post something that is valid, read the whole post. Missing key points and ideas doesn't help out your argument. Notice that all the people are against the alt rule are the people that like to run around with 5-6 alts. It makes their argument no better than the people who like to play with 1-3. I know that Deval has a decent number of alts, but only chooses to play at the most I have seen, 2 at a time. That doesn't make him a bad player just because he chooses not to use a large amount of crits. I am taking a neutral standpoint on this argument in regards to Harky. If you knew me, you'd know that I have a nice army of crits. And CBH, I wonder if the majority of the people on the forums "use their brains" as well. It seems to me like a lot of the people here are thick-headed and are afraid of change. From what I have seen, nobody has posted a decent argument against this. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Galatae on 05/17/03 at 00:27:49 Ok, I'm one of those that normally has 6-9 alts logged on. I do that because I have a family and have limited time. I try to use the time I DO get to play to max advantage and level all my crits that are under 30 (basically all but 2). Therefore, I do actually train them, not for pk raids or to go to bosses. My first two archmasters I trained alone from level 1. I sold the fighter just after I got it there. Then I used my arch thief to help train another. If an alt limit came about I can handle it, though I'm opposed. 1. Why penalize people for using thier computers to thier full potential ? (my desktop handles 11 alts 100% and my laptop handles 8 at 100%) 2. Time is money. Some of us have to pay for whatever connection we have. And there's ideas (again) of P2P. If we are charged per crit, why then can't we use any/all of them we choose? 3. No matter how many alts are restricted, the game will basically not change. Powerful clans will remain powerful. Welcome to the World boys and girls. You can now graduate. 4. Not everyone plays during the same time. Some of us play when there are 47 online users simply because of work or residence. The argument that the alt limit would force people to interact is naieve. 5. An alt limit would hurt going out of towns as the max monster per square is 5, which is too powerful for a good majority of 3 party crits. Especially those without a healer. I can see the benefits to an alt limit however: - Less chance to be pk'd - Those that only use alts to get to bosses will have to wait when they can get others to help. That in turn POSSIBLY giving better chances to other groups. - Easier to manage 3 crits versus 6 - Prices on items might come down due to people selling items/crits they won't use - Better chance to get the kill when training in an arena I propose the following idea: Keep the current game, but modify it by dividing the per hit point damage exp by the number of people in the party. This would give incentive to limit the number of alts a person chooses to have at once. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Zylia on 05/17/03 at 01:19:57 Harky, by the realism statement I was referring to the level rule, not the alt portion. I'm saying that changes like that are what is killing the realism. An archmaster could strike down a journeyman irl. That was all I was saying. Sorry if I didn't specify enough. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Oblivion on 05/17/03 at 03:54:22 When I used 5 alts at a time or maybe more, I was always for the max number of alts allowed on rule.. I mean seriously, can you people not use 1-2 alts and have to hook up with friends/clannies to actually go do something? Is teamwork something you rather not have, and keep your 6+ alt armys? I've played other games outside NM, a lot requireing teamwork.. Teamwork is a lot more fun then doing things by yourself. There is no harm in the alt rule, it would do nothing thats a problem besides make people who use alt armys as power loose that power. Then the true players who are good would be seen. It would however do good, not going to rename the good deeds it would do, just read, what Harky, Deval, Cloud, and bean posted. ----note---- I say make 1-2 alt max rule, and see how it works. No harm in that.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/17/03 at 04:20:11 On a sidenote, I am very surprised that Deval and Oblivion are agreeing with me on something. Last time I checked they both hated my guts, heh. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Rattlesnake on 05/17/03 at 04:21:20 on 05/16/03 at 19:55:16, Cloud wrote:
I can run a party of 3 fighters, a ranger, a mage, a cleric, and a paladin in the desert and not waste any stamina. It is very easy to accomplish this with macros. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/17/03 at 04:28:01 You can't do that with 7 crits, its just not possible even with macros. By the time you come around crit 4 or 5, crit 1 already has its stamina back. After i'd say 3 rounds of this, your stamina routine would get messed up and they would get a full bar of stamina, thus not using your stamina efficiently. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Bean on 05/17/03 at 06:12:39 Was it Pandilex or JLH who already figured that out a long time ago? They said something like max 5 crits without wasting stamina or something.... I dunno |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Pile on 05/17/03 at 11:01:46 In response to the ‘maximising time and efficient training’ argument, can you not see that is what is killing the game? The game should be fun and I personally feel the main part of this comes from the challenge, levelling a specific character, gaining that precious item, getting that kill etc, numerous alts simply makes all this easier and takes away what should be the ‘fun’ aspect of the game. Now from my perspective it is totally true that I do not have a lot of alts to choose from. I can see that it’s always going to be fun to have power over others and I can appreciate the fun that comes from owning, and being able to control, 5 perfect archie crits. But, I honestly believe that his isn’t where the challenge in the game should lie. I realise the current depth of the game could be somewhat limiting if a one alt rule was implicated, but efforts could surely then be concentrated on improving this. The real problem I feel is the fact that all these ‘big’ players will have, in some respects, wasted a great deal of time with too many crits and items to utilise and be beneficial to own. They will be the ones that ‘lose out’. Maybe there are some things that could be done to address this problem…? One that sprang to mind was Halor’s (I think :-/) idea of trading arch alts in for special itmes, I don’t particularly like this personally, but it was a valid suggestion and just a good example to stick in here. I don’t know but I’m thinking that a one alt rule would flood the sale boards with cheaper crits and items and therefore even out the ‘power’ distribution. Sounds good, more equality… but these people wouldn’t have had to work hard for this at all; this is where I see the main objection from the ‘powerful’ players. It wouldn’t be ‘fair’ but I feel it needs to be done, as Harky says, for the good of the game. So maybe efforts could be concentrated on solving this problem? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Harky on 05/17/03 at 16:33:27 I haven't read through all the replies yet, I just want to make a quick post to apologize to Zylia - I kinda skimmed most of the posts and jumped to conclusions. I don't really like the level rule either, this would be an opportunity to get it removed. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Alicia on 05/20/03 at 17:51:13 i dont get the wasted stamina thingy? It takes under 2 seconds for me to get all my attacks out when training in desert (5 attacking crits and a cleric), and, IIRC it takes 10 secs to refresh. So most of the time (the other 8 secs) im usually looking at the 6 hit point bars for the sand spider to hit someone so i can heal them |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by JLH on 05/20/03 at 20:05:32 so 6 crits in 2 seconds, that 1/3 of a second per crit, somehow, i think not. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Alicia on 05/20/03 at 23:54:30 5 actually (i dont hit with cleric) anyway, 6 windows in 2 secs isn't that hard, just place the alt windows so the mouse pointer naturally comes across them when pulling it towards you, and set good macros. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Oblivion on 05/21/03 at 01:31:12 on 05/20/03 at 20:05:32, JLH wrote:
I agree, it takes atleast half, if not more, a sec just to use 1 crits full stamina, even with macros held down. So your looking at least 5 secs for 5 crits, then the remaining 5 secs to watch which crit needs heal, then switch back over to the first alt, and do it again. You could use about 6-7 alts and probabaly be able to switch back to the first without wasteing stamina. But thats if no lagg, and no delays in alt switching. Which we defently have lagg, and lagg helps the delays in alt switching and also, your computer isn't that good, it could cause some lagg and alt switching delays. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by wonderful_nightmare on 05/21/03 at 08:27:31 on 05/20/03 at 20:05:32, JLH wrote:
i looked at my training style and timed it. average lies between 5-6 seconds for using 12 crits (only two fighters in it they take a lil longer all others are thieves, rangers and zerkers.) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Alicia on 05/21/03 at 12:45:43 As anyone who has tried a four crit hit and run against ten archmasters, if you take more than two seconds to move in, get all your attacks off and run away, then you are already dead. Edit - Oh, and dont hold down macros unless you are in a square waiting for someone, or you are in a party and someone else is leading. Press the macro key, its quicker |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Alicia on 05/21/03 at 23:06:14 Just thought id post this log (from my cleric)... Sleeping, TwilightsDream, LS_LadyWhisper_C, Dreaming, Jewelia, Alchemy, Ness, Brytack, Princess_Aerial, Alicia, Jaded_Angel, Rachaelsbane, Mazzy, Rei, Thorazine, Alice just arrived from the West. Mountain Lion: GRRrrrRRR A Mountain Lion attacked Sleeping with its Paws but Sleeping was mostly shielded by his armor. Alice attempted to assassinate a Mountain Lion but failed. Boldin attempted to assassinate a Mountain Lion but failed. Rachaelsbane berserked at a Mountain Lion, but missed. Rachaelsbane berserked at a Mountain Lion, but missed. Rachaelsbane berserked at a Mountain Lion, but missed. Rachaelsbane berserked at a Mountain Lion, but missed. Rachaelsbane berserked at a Mountain Lion from her Halberd. Rachaelsbane berserked at a Mountain Lion, but missed. Brytack attacked a Mountain Lion with a Justice Blade. Thorazine tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Alchemy rapidly fired at a Mountain Lion from his Enchanted Bow. Alchemy rapidly fired at a Mountain Lion, but missed. Alchemy rapidly fired at a Mountain Lion from his Enchanted Bow. Alchemy rapidly fired at a Mountain Lion from his Enchanted Bow. Alchemy rapidly fired at a Mountain Lion from his Enchanted Bow. Brytack tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Brytack attacked a Mountain Lion with a Justice Blade. Alicia tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Brytack attacked a Mountain Lion with a Justice Blade, but the Mountain Lion's armor absorbed most of the blow. Thorazine tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Thorazine tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Thorazine tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Alicia attacked a Mountain Lion with a Halberd, but the Mountain Lion's armor absorbed half of the blow. Thorazine tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. Thorazine attacked a Mountain Lion with a Blade of Time. Alicia attacked a Mountain Lion with a Halberd, but the Mountain Lion's armor absorbed most of the blow. Alicia attacked a Mountain Lion with a Halberd. Alicia attacked a Mountain Lion with a Halberd. Alicia tried to attack the Mountain Lion but missed. I was with sleeping, aerial and lokey, we had around 5 alts each. As you can see, we had just arrivied in the square with the lion, and proceeded to attack it (Actually the lion got off the first hit :( ) In the time i got off all the attacks on my crits, sleeping got 2, lokey 1 and aerial 0. Guess its just how people lay out their alt windows... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Cloud on 05/21/03 at 23:16:06 I guess you don't use the traditional alt+tab method? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Insomnia on 05/21/03 at 23:26:00 I can't see the relevance in how long it takes to go through X alts with macros. Why do you have to tell us how to play this game? Using many alts isn't always an advantage. If I went with 4 alts against someone with 10 alts I'm quite sure that I'd kill more than half of his (and probably win aswell, unless the opponent is very good) crits before I'd be dead. It's a pain to keep control of 10 alts in a battle and be able to heal them all. Moral of the story, just let us play with whatever we've got in our accounts. We haven't cheated to get it; we've worked for it. Tactics like using many/few alts should be allowed, that's way better than this new "hit and run/log-tactic" (excuse me for calling it tactic, but that's what people say it is). |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Hybrid on 05/21/03 at 23:26:11 I don't either, unless im training with a few alts, alt + tab is easier that way. If i have lots, i cant be bothered with alt + tab. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Insomnia on 05/21/03 at 23:29:20 I always use alt+tab.. |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by wonderful_nightmare on 05/22/03 at 10:45:05 alt +tab is the wrong way. :D you need to just use your mouse to switch windows then attack with macros. this way you can allways attack if someone happens to enter the square where you are on (i never let go of my mouse.) |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Alicia on 05/22/03 at 12:21:24 I tried using alt/tab for the first time this morning, and i find it d**n near useless. I ended up with three help windows open (my server program, msn, winamp), and all my crit windows messed up so i coudnt see all the health bars at once. Sure, you can log your crits on in a certain order, but that means every time a crit logs (at least one every time you go to bt, desert or any other distant place) you have to log all your crits and bring them back in right order... |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by wonderful_nightmare on 05/23/03 at 09:16:01 nah i allways log my alts in the same order and when one crashes i just minimise all windows and then resize em again in the correct order and that works fine :D |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Eiements on 05/24/03 at 18:46:27 hmm I use about 4-5 crits when I train and about 3 crits when I go pking or just walking around. what would nightmist be without alts? items would cost more crits would be really cheap. alot of stuff would have to be redone too. I think its fine how it is now, I mean things work now dont they and they have been working, so why mess with it if its not broken? |
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Title: Re: Alts. Post by Zylia on 05/24/03 at 19:05:11 on 05/22/03 at 12:21:24, Alicia wrote:
Lol Alt+Tab is one of the commands I use most, in nightmist and also for other programs on my computer. I find it much more effective than rolling my mouse down the the task bar to choose my application. It just takes practice than its rather useful... |
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