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Title: Time to listen. Post by Stigmata on 03/30/03 at 23:18:21 Ok, the time for talking is over, for the minute, I suggest you all calm down and listen. First of all I'd like to say how disappointed I am in the majority of players that post on this forum. This game is not free and it doesn't run itself. It takes time, money and effort to support this game - the majority of it coming from the game founders, JLH and Pandilex. Nearly everyone is acting like a spoilt child, not once in my time on this game have I ever seen anything like this. The lack of maturity present today is amazing and it's no wonder that some of the staff are feeling unwanted. If you put yourselves in their shoes for just one minute you'd realise how tough it is to be a staff member, let alone a game administrator. These staff members do not get paid for their efforts and all of a sudden it seems that a war has broken out between a majority of the players and staff (mainly pandilex and zephie). Most of you have no idea how much work these staff members have to get through in your typical nightmist day, you assume WAY too much thinking that just because you can't see this work that it doesn't happen. Let me assure all of you that this work does happen, and without it there would be NO game. I have been staff myself, and I know how much work needs to be done to keep the game running smoothly, and its a heck of alot. Pandilex has little visible work to most of you, but just think of what he has to get through everytime he logs on. He must receive 30+ emails and memos a day, each one requiring a response, which not only does he have to research most of the time, but present it to the player in a way which he can understand. Personally I think the rules of the forum need to change, there's way too many accusations flying around these days, 99% which are completely false and are only started due to personal dislike and hatred. Most of you only start these threads to get at the player/staffer in question, having no real intention of trying to solve the issue at hand. Today was a prime example, Halor was fired. Sad to see him go, but it isn't the end of the world. You have NO idea what Halor did as a staff member, so it's not your place to say whether he should be fired or not. Pandilex and JLH hired him, so it's their place to fire him. Personally I think he has good intentions as a staff member, wanting good things for the game, but I feel as if it wasn't his time to be a staff member. Perhaps when he is older and more experienced. In all i think the forum should be used for game discussion only, and anything staff or player related should be kept to emails. When a topic is brought up not only do you effect yourself and the staff member in question but the rest of the community as well. Saying Pandilex is a bad staffer is not only immature but it gives other less experienced players the wrong impression. I hope this has managed to get your attention as this constant forum abuse has got to stop. Unhappy staff can only lead to one thing. No more game. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Zephie on 03/30/03 at 23:34:06 Stigmata is the voice of reason. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by King o Sausage on 03/30/03 at 23:37:29 Very well said. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by dognapot on 03/30/03 at 23:51:18 this has been a long time coming. in the eyes of most players pandilex can't do anything right and it's been that way for awhile now. he and JLH are the only ones with the so much power and authority and pan has always takes the heat when it doesn't flatter everyone. i haven't agreed with everything he's done but i do give him credit for doing what he thinks will be best. i think i don't have to cite sources to say that most people here are biased, inarticulate, hasty, and spitefull. so not everything that's good for the game will be seen as such right away. just consider audience sometimes and wait a bit to see how well it goes. pandilex, who seems to take the brunt of the accusations here, has no conflict of interest here. as a co-creator of this he is only doing what he feels is best just as JLH is and just as all the area developers and dungeon masters are. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Mammon on 03/30/03 at 23:51:38 I also agree Stigmata, the abuse of staff is intolerable, everyday I go to the forums to see more insults slung at staff of the game without any support whatsoever to what they are saying, insults that make them all appear to be children no older than 3 years of age, coming from 16 year olds, 14 years, whatever, must stop. Using stupid rumors to sway the gullible night mist community to hate or love one or more people turning them against the very people that make this game what it is now. I have never been staff, but I can understand just from looking at the forums in their current condition of what they go through everyday that they log onto night mist. Logging on with probably hundreds of memos only 20 or so being actual questions others being slanderous comments made at them for work that in their eyes is less than perfect. So I say, let them continue their behavior, that of spoilt children, ones who have not matured yet, then when all staff quits and night mist is gone only then will they see their error. I will just sit back and tell them, I told you it would happen, you only brought this upon yourselves. Staff, hang in there, I know it is hard but I appreciate all of you. I know you put your time and effort into the game to make it more fun for the nightmist community and for that I thank you. JLH, thank you for hosting the game, Pandilex thank you for programming the game, all other staff, thank you for making nightmist what it is now, and what it will be in the future. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Valentine on 03/31/03 at 00:12:52 I hope that this will be my only post on the subject (I can't make any promises...being human, and all :)), but: Most players don't have a problem with the majority of the staff. "All this" abuse that you speak of is directed at only a certain sect of staff--and not even all the TR staff, mind you. These complaints (outside of the whole "You have to be TR to be staff") do have a base, I feel. That base is, at the very least, player relations. Several people feel as if these issues are not being handled properly (myself included). Talking to other staff members does not yield results most of the time, therefore people post on this forum. The other option (also in practice) is to quit, and I think we would all agree it's difficult to let go of something that you have enjoyed for so long. On the forum alone, you can see certain staff members attacking players for no reason. It's happened to me several times, and it definitely makes me to not even want to play anymore. You know why? Because it sucks to feel like a game admin is out to get you--whether it is true or not. Someone on another post stated that the NM staff situation should be handled in a business-like fashion. Firing staff for personal reasons, not giving reasons for dismissal, and treating players like crap is not common business practice. This leads me to another point--how many people would pay to play a game that is handled like this? If this game is ever to go P2P, then you can't have admins telling the players that they suck or picking fights on the forum. Players won't pay to be abused. Frankly, I think most people would prefer to have no game at all if the only other option is a game where you feel discriminated against. Arg...edited because programming makes me use double " by habit. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Sera on 03/31/03 at 00:18:31 Tis a sad sad day in the realm of NM... I have gotten to the point anymore when reading the forums makes me sick. You people whom, may I remind you, get to play this game for free have nothing better to do with your time then ridicule the people who create the game, and the areas for doing their jobs? I am not happy that Halor was fired either, he is a dear friend to me, but I refuse to sink to the level of the childishness of some of you people and point fingers and tell people they are awful at what they do. Staff does not get paid for thier job. They are staff purely because they wish to help better the game. Who would want to better a game where all they do is get ridiculed and yelled at by ungrateful people. You all need to grow up and realize that you have paid nothing for this game, you spend countless hours leveling your characters....and yet you do nothing but complain about it. If you aren't happy with the way things are, then email staff, but don't drag it out on the forums. I believe there should be a rule on the forums that any person taking part in excessive flaming of a person, including staff *believe it or not STAFF ARE PEOPLE TOO* should be banned from the forums. I'm sorry, but it's how I feel. I do not wish to come here and see this. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Aidon on 03/31/03 at 00:25:09 It also sucks to be in a game where it feels like all players are out to get you. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Pile on 03/31/03 at 00:56:31 Thank God! A lot of people respect Stigmata and hopefully a post like that with some reason in it might quell this mindless situation. A lynch mob has been formed and at its black heart is the very same injustice of which you accuse Pandilex. I say shut down the forum for a week and see how people get on then. All the biased stuff including the TR situation really is getting dull as well. I am not in TR and I intermittently get killed by them, very few of them would think twice about clicking me and you know what I don’t actually take this personally and I’m not jealous. Fair play to them, we all have the same playing field and the fact that people are better than me comes down to the simple fact that one way or another they put more “effort” into the game. I suggest other people take a step back and consider this. I have pretty much never had dealings with Pandilex but I can say I have found Zephie to be incredibly helpful, well mannered and polite. I imagine she doesn’t particularly like me and yet the positive manner in which she conducts herself on her staff character is clear. That goes for the other staff too, you are all professional and Nightmist is all the better for your contributions. The improvements in the last 6 months have been tremendous when you consider how long the game pretty much stayed the same after the reset. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by KaZuL on 03/31/03 at 00:58:28 Aidon, you have been staff for like 4 days, and you Presume alot as if you have veteran experience as pan does. Now accusations, false statements, those are unfair to those they are aimed at, and though i greatly appreciate the work staff does, I don't always feel they are very good with people. As far as the bashing of zephie goes, jen, you can silence all of that with one quick awnser, how many areas have you created? Cause I would think if Halor was fired after developing 3 in his limited time as staff for not workin fast enough, you should have several done since you remain. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Aidon on 03/31/03 at 01:05:19 What does me saying it sucks to have people complaing about me being staff have to do with experience? I am not blind I read the forum thousands of times a day. I see the hateful cooments, and I will not lie I have posted a few myself. As for being staffer for only 4 days, you would be surprised how many pages and yells you can get in 4 days about how you shouldn't be staff because I am Pandi's friend and in TR, and how we are taking over (juust a little info: I have NEVER talked to Pandi until he hired me). Actually I find it quite amusing how everyone wanted to be my friend and wanted me in their clan and was telling me how I was the best thing since sliced bread, until they found out I was TR. Then mush as I suspected, approval ratings dropped, with absolutely no grounds other than I am in TR. Quite sad and disgusting if you ask me, but oh well, I will work my hardest and longest, no matter what people say about me. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Zephie on 03/31/03 at 01:15:48 No matter what I say, or any staff say. You will just continue finding reasons to dislike us, no matter how we defend ourselves. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Mammon on 03/31/03 at 01:29:30 I swear you all make me sick...no matter how hard the staff of this game try, it is never good enough for you. They could put out 5 million squares a day and you'd say why not 6 million. The effort these members have put into the game without anything in return is phenomenal, yet you still find little idiotic things to insult, causing good staff to quit. All of you who badger staff seriously need to just sit down and take a look at how pathetic you are, whining is all you are good for, go do it somewhere else. If you think nightmist sucks, then quit, noone will care, less lag and less complaining to hear out of you. Staff, I congratulate you on your efforts, continue the work you do to make nightmist a good game, don't listen to the immature players who complain they are merely peons who are here because they feel the need to be antagonists towards a better nightmist. In regards to Kazul, you need not have any experience at all to see just a portion of the abuse staff gets, on forums almost daily there are people who bash others, with no solid facts to base their opinions off of. Many people get their information from others who got it from someone else who made it up, simply because they did not like that particular staff member. So how about we all just end this flame cycle, here and now, and show we are all more mature than that. We can stop the stupidity that will be the end of this game, it can stop now. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by KaZuL on 03/31/03 at 01:36:30 you say us as though we dislike all staff for no reason other than because. Odd isn't it then, that matt is obviously very liked, while you are questioned isn't it jen. I think bottom line comes down to a person on the basis of who they are, and not what they create. Now he did make areas, going by his responsibility as staff, but he was also a pleasant person to talk to and be around. Sorry if you are not the most popular Gal as staff jen, but you might consider that when you talk to people on your regular crits, because whether people as players should deliniate between you on Zephie, and you on Kalypso, they are always gonna see you as the same person, you are who you choose to be. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Mammon on 03/31/03 at 01:42:18 From what I hear, now I'm not 100% sure on this so don't flame me for it, but from what I hear matt made many, many typos. Which other staff had to fix, not only that but Alliedassault made an area with Halor, and when he did he said Halor didn't help him much. Now those could easily be reasons that he was fired, making too many typos and not helping players with ideas can easily be a fireable offense seeing as that is being where they are not doing there job, but as far as Zephie goes she is working with many players on some areas, including me, Insomnia and Norinth just to name a few. So I don't think Zephie isn't being fired simply because Simon likes her more, or Matt less. Of course who am I to decide. ::) |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by PureMourning on 03/31/03 at 02:14:37 I don't dislike staff one bit, heh. I've always been the one to appreciate very much the time they dedicate towards the game. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Bean on 03/31/03 at 02:40:35 The way I see it, You can hate staff all you want, But you better F*cking bloody well respect them or your a$$ will be banned, OR They could just all leave... Which means we have NO GAME.... Dont make it go that way people... no-one wants that. I agree 100% with you ste, And I hope people listen to you, Because I know they wont listen to me... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Violate on 03/31/03 at 04:10:17 Who in the h3ll do you think you are bean? |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Zekhia on 03/31/03 at 08:54:56 Omg you people...i swear jlh you should just make it so that there are no forums...all people do is cry about how things dont go thier way. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Bean on 03/31/03 at 16:10:49 on 03/31/03 at 04:10:17, Violate wrote:
Obviously I see this in more light than you do... And Did you even read my post? All Of its plain common sense... So Really I'm a guy with a lot of common sense... |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Lyandor on 03/31/03 at 16:48:11 Heh, does it matter if matt made typos? its just an accident, as long as their fixed it doesn't matter. Maybe he didn't help allied with the area, because he was busy? I agree with Stigmata though, this needs to stop because I don't want Pan, or any staff, to leave. That goes for the staff I don't really like much, because I know I only dislike them because of their alts, or for biased reasons. |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Matt on 03/31/03 at 17:24:15 I may have made typos, but we all do.. It’s human nature to make mistakes. I could go through some of the newer areas, older and find mistakes. Ste, I agree with everything you said, people don’t realize how difficult it is to be staff. The accusations of favoritism, cheating, and all this without pay. Yes, there may be childish bickering back and forth on the forums between players and staff. Usually without just cause.. I don’t see making a spelling mistake, or any of the other reasons listed in Pan’s e-mail to me grounds for dismissal.. Recently I heard that Pan was thinking of hiring you again Ste because of your application, yet just a few months ago I remember Pan, Hav and others bashing your areas. Pandilex even said that he had ‘pages full of typos’ for your areas.. Sudden change of heart eh? |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Eternyte on 03/31/03 at 21:29:37 You will always have people spoting typos. Even if some of them arent typos at all. For instance people in the UK (including Ste) would spells things like... Colour Centre If its in a basic description thats means a large area would have numerous typo's. I saw JLH post somewhere that he uses American spelling because UK people dont whine or comment as much. Maybe all areas could be used as American spellings to avoid confusion? |
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Title: Re: Time to listen. Post by Norinth on 03/31/03 at 22:42:11 Back to topic, Now I don't look at the forum (lately) (at least not as much as I used to) because most topics I find are about staff getting fired, staff being flamed, players whinning about staff, etc. It is true that staff work hard... Nobody can say they don't, because everybody knows they do. This game is not p2p (nor would we want it to become p2p) but if that's what is needed to stop people from fighting, flaming or harrasing another human being (yes, we are all human beings behind those little pics)... |
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