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(Message started by: Julius on 03/21/03 at 02:45:05)
Title: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Julius on 03/21/03 at 02:45:05
What exactly is considered 'threatening behavior towards other players'? To me, a game based on player vs. player there is unlimited threatening behavior. You can say that a look over is threatening, you are sizing up your oponnent. How do you legitimize banning a player for a WEEK for threatening behavior?! It seems that there is a little bit of biase towards certain players...I think thats a rediculous reason to week ban crits. Unless you can give specific reason that a threat goes above and beyond role-playing talk. Remember, its a game and the game is based on player hostility. Threatening Behavior? I don't know......
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Oblivion on 03/21/03 at 02:47:22
haha, you can get ban for threatening..
How lame, that to an extent can take out yet again more Roleplaying, for those who RP.

Besides, if someones afriad of someone online, who so happen to threaten them, they don't need to play..
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Julius on 03/21/03 at 02:51:00
Exactly, what happened to the RPing part of the game? So you can't take up a cause and defend it...You better start banning every person who pks...I  think that is pretty threatening.....
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Disjunction on 03/21/03 at 03:07:28
Yes Julius what did happen to the RPing part of the game in which a certain person needed to threaten someone in a out of game scenario. Personally I wouldn't care if i got threatened but maybe the person that got threatened did care. A online threat is considered a crime by the eyes of the law so don't complain that your little friend got banned in game for a week.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by HiddenHate on 03/21/03 at 11:47:12
We're talking about Phileo, right? I asked for an example of what he had said, and i can kind of understand why he was banned. It wasn't treatening someone in game, it was a threat made via the game about real life.. Which should (and was) taken very seriously.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by CKY on 03/21/03 at 13:35:33
If you'd really like to know Julius, this is why.
[Clan] Galapagos: Phileo Pages You from (Hidden): I HAVE FAR MORE POWER THAN YOU THINK...POWER TO HURT YOU IN WAYS OUTSIDE OF THE GAME, AND I'M MAD ENOUGH TO DO THAT.

When you have to resort to out-of-game threatening, that's just pathetic.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 03/21/03 at 13:41:23
hmm i guess some ppl find something like that more offensive then others. i wouldn't pay attention to it at all. it's just some text on a computer screen if you ask me.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Necros on 03/21/03 at 14:38:17
Yes and text on a computer screen can get people in-to trouble, I mean...10 year old girls get murdered because of 'text on a screen'.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 03/21/03 at 14:53:57
hmm maybe he internet should get a warning on it like cigarets :D

"use of the internet is bad for your health and can be deadly" :P
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Bishop on 03/21/03 at 15:01:08
I highly doubt the person this page was sent to took it in any way as something to fear.  As I told JLH, people get mad and threaten others (yes, even outside of the game) all the time in NM.  This particular incident has roots that stem from paging abuse over months and months.  The only reason so much attention was brought to it is because the opposition to Phileo has influence and are using it to 'make him pay'.  He'd never been banned before, and regularly plays the game in a peaceful manner.

It's total bs - a dayban or character ban would have been more than sufficient.

There is little hope for fair treatment in NM if staff members choose to allow their personal view to affect their job as staff.  We all know some staff use their position to further their norm's status, personal aspirations, and personal amusement.  It's sadly obvious.  And, I'm particularly sad to see it happen to a game that has so much potential.

Good thing there are other games; though I'm still hoping it's not necessary to go look for a good one.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Insomnia on 03/21/03 at 15:57:12
Bishop, stop defending your clannies all the time regardless of what they have done. I'm tired of it.

We all know that if I would have said something like that to another player when you ahd Cyric, you would have banned me (probably even with a big smile on your face).

I don't know how this person felt when he got those pages, but some of us does take offense when people are b|tching at them about outside game things, and therefor it shouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Valentine on 03/21/03 at 15:58:05
Hmm..like bashing someone for having a child at the tender age of 17?

I'm just saying....
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Bishop on 03/21/03 at 16:44:21
When I had Cyric, the only punishment I ever felt needed more than a dayban was modifying stats for a period of time, and that was only if abuse was regular (at least 3 instances within a few months).

I'm tired of everyone acting so innocent - I'm sure if the logs were read thoroughly, several dozen people would be suffering a week comp ban right now.  I'm monitored talk on the game probably more than anyone, and heated insults are as common as the sun rising.  It's always said in haste and never means a thing.

I'm not even saying what was done didn't deserve some discipline, but a week comp ban - that's excessive, and I have no doubt that personal influences are involved having nothing to do with any threats.

I don't expect anything to be done - JLH has given Pan full authority to do whatever he wants, and based on past events, we all know Pan will do as he likes whether it's fair or not, just or not, reasonable or not, or even personal or not.  Such is how things are done in NM dispite what anyone else thinks.

Say what you like - it won't matter, be it insult to me or words of wisdom.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by HiddenHate on 03/21/03 at 17:17:33
Talking of unfair punishments (Yes, it was along time ago now).
I yelled a string of 5 swear words. And for that, had my highest lvl crit deleted and a month ban. Now for the first time i had ever broken the rules. Isn't that abit harsh??

But i didn't cry about it. I didn't even know how long i was banned for till i updated my OS and managed to get back on before the month was up.


Sorry to have gone off subject.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Insomnia on 03/21/03 at 20:23:31

on 03/21/03 at 16:44:21, Bishop wrote:
I'm tired of everyone acting so innocent - I'm sure if the logs were read thoroughly, several dozen people would be suffering a week comp ban right now.  I'm monitored talk on the game probably more than anyone, and heated insults are as common as the sun rising.  It's always said in haste and never means a thing.

I'm not even saying what was done didn't deserve some discipline, but a week comp ban - that's excessive, and I have no doubt that personal influences are involved having nothing to do with any threats.

I've never threatened anyone IRL through this game, and only thing I've been banned for was yelling "masturbate?" as an answer to one of your trivia questions.

Insults aren't always said in haste. Sometimes people just start going off on you while sitting at gates, and sometimes people keep going on for hours telling you that something bad is going to happen with your family, just because you killed/attacked them.

If you can't behave yourself while playing a game, then you should definately not play.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Locke on 03/22/03 at 02:39:13
Can anyone tell me when Phileo has ever been in trouble before? The only times he ever gets "punished" is for things dealing with The Resistance. Hmm...wait a second, both Pandilex and Galapagos are in The Resistance. Now I am not saying that The Resistance is a bad clan, its just odd, that the most outspoken TR "hater" is week banned over a petty little thing that many people do. God forbid someone gets angry and says something a little too quickly...

But whatever, Pandilex is NM god (Dictator?) and nothing can be done to him by players...or anyone else for that matter...
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Amy on 03/22/03 at 03:28:42
(OOC Comments)

This was some time ago when it all went down. Phileo is a great guy and has more honor is his little finger then most I know on here. Thing is, he can be threatened and belittled out of game by the same people that got him banned and everyone looks the other way. Not only did this happen MONTHS ago but weeks ago.  Rarely a day goes by that he is not harrassed out of game or in game by these people.  It happens more often then you can even imagine. I should know, am his training partner and consort.  I was going to stay silent about all this knowing that in some way it will only make it worse, but, I must place my thoughts here.

Funny, it is okay to be "evil". But when you fight for "good" it is considered harrassment.  Even in a roleplaying environment.
He never wished anyone any harm out of game if you just talked to him. In Fact, I know several players AND staff that came to him often with their problems in real life and he would take time to listen and help in anyway he could.  Granted, out of game comments should never be spoken or tossed around.  I do not condone that at all. But, I know exactly what drove him to it and I know that his profession as well as many other things were belittled by these very people.

I think the true problem is that even when following every rule and playing the game as it was meant to be played, they couldn't beat him and took it out on him the only way they could.  Granted, they could and do at times PK us, when they can't keep us down or figure out how to harrass us with the outcome they want they had to figure out another way to do it.

Regardless, what is done is done.  I really wish I had saved the comments both in game and out of game I have gotten as well as the numerous cuss out sessions played out by TR members right in front of people that are staff but were so easily overlooked at times and joined in at other times. But see, I know it is a game and to me, getting someone banned just really isn't part of the game.  I will defeat my enemies (In game enemies for those that aren't clear on it) in game ... OUt of game, I wish everyone the best and hold no ill feelings.  Although I have little respect for those that use the rules only when they are convenient and throw them to the side when it benefits them.

Hope this week goes by fast! I miss him!
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Tender_Foot on 03/22/03 at 04:12:39
yeah, ive actually told pandilex of 2 staff members who ignored tr members who cussed infront of them (and one of the staff even right after, banned someone else for cussing). I thought this was somewhat solved when Zephie helped me get ahold of pandilex, and i personally havent seen it happen since.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Zephie on 03/22/03 at 04:34:54
Amy, this event did not take place months ago. This took place 3-14-2003, why do you keep on saying it was months ago? Maybe this is the second time that it's happend????? When real life threats are made something is to be done, no matter what clan the player is in.  /who Veritas for example, this player threatened to hurt another player IRL and action was taken. Anything that is illegal IRL is illegal on nightmist. (This should go without saying, I'm not exactly sure why you are trying to justify someone saying they are going to hurt a player out of game because they pked them in game) Cyber threats are taken very seriously, on Nightmist and off. (Real life authoritys could get involved when cyber threats take place.)


Tender- If Pandilex didn't resolve the issue go to JLH, please. I'm not exactly sure why nothing was done, but this is why there are 3 admins in game. If you do not feel comfortable dealing with one there are others to choose from.

As for the punishment being a bit harsh (Btw, Bishop I am glad that you understand that he did in fact need to be disciplined for what he did) Other people who have done the same as him have gotten banned for a week as well. And it clearly states when you logon.

As this is a game for all ages you may have your computer banned for up to a week unless you keep all chat clean.

Threatning players != keeping chat clan.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Sera on 03/22/03 at 04:48:38
I know just recently I had a NM player threaten to kill me IRL. She stated "I have a gun right here" and that she has "killed 2 people" with this gun.


I even copied/pasted this in clan chat...and also I belive I memoed it to a staff member....

I will say that when I made her aware that what she was doing is an offense punishable by law she stated she didn't care and didn't page me any longer.

The whole situation bothers me for one reason...if I was considerably younger *as a lot of the players on this game are* threats such as this may have been more frightening. Either way, it wasn't right...and any threats to hurt anyone IRL need to be taken seriously and that person needs to be punished. Maybe then they will realize that what they did was wrong.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by newb on 03/22/03 at 06:17:41
[quote author=Zephie link=board=Discussion;num=1048214705;start=15#18 date=03/22/03
As this is a game for all ages you may have your computer banned for up to a week unless you keep all chat clean.
[/quote]

How about clan chat? I know for a fact that that roughly 1/20-30 words typed is a swear word. I keep my swearing to a minimum ingame and only use it with my friends that know I am joking around. And you may say "Oh, everybody knows its just fun in clan chat". People can misunderstand things and alot of it is serious swearing to other players. I myself have gotten in trouble for the immense amount of swearing that goes on(my mom sees it sometimes and she gets mad with that I play a game with people that cuss like that).
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Zephie on 03/22/03 at 06:22:12

on 06/24/02 at 21:49:02, JLH wrote:
just like to clear a few rules up

sweaing in clanchat is not strictly enforced by staff, it will be acted on if people swear a lot, or someone complains about it.

swearing in the main game is enforced by staff, who have been known to monitor specific users or even the whole game at once.

people can be daybanned for this, and if it occurs regularly, characters will be banned/deleted


If swearing occurs frequently in a clan, you can tell a staff member/founder/chairman or disband, it's your choice to listen to it.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by newb on 03/22/03 at 06:38:54
Well, you did say keep ALL chat clean /shrug. It would lead you to think that you should keep all chat clean. And what about staff members that cuss in any chat? They should be the shining examples of Nightmist.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Tender_Foot on 03/22/03 at 08:51:11
(i would like to point out the fact that i have never had a staff related problem with Zephie)

But doesnt it say keep all chat clean?
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by newb on 03/22/03 at 09:00:27
As this is a game for all ages you may have your computer banned for up to a week unless you keep all chat clean.


Indeed it does. I suppose all should mean all.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Tender_Foot on 03/22/03 at 11:02:36
so shouldnt people get banned for cussing in clan chat...?
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Momba on 03/22/03 at 12:55:37
Draco Honorless continues to point out the abuse that Phileo has to go through almost each time he logs. Have any of you ever considered that the abuse might be centered around his own actions? Time after time we have threads in which he was the focus. It seems that the pattern just on the forum alone is that he is not very well liked.
He chooses to RP in game as well as on the forum. And does a good job of staying in character with very few slips of the tongue. What Bishop, Amy, Julius and Valentine might consider is sitting your boy down and suggesting he RP as a diffrent character. One that isn`t so sarcastic,self centered and all out arrogant.


Happily Hunting Draco Honorless Since 12/2002
 
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 03/22/03 at 14:14:08
hmm this is all nice and all but i still cannot c how someone could feel offended / insulted by some text on a computer screen.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Devotchka on 03/22/03 at 16:10:48

on 03/22/03 at 14:14:08, wonderful_nightmare wrote:
hmm this is all nice and all but i still cannot c how someone could feel offended / insulted by some text on a computer screen.


When its taken way too far anyone would be offened and insulted by it.So, if ppl are out there that are harassing and threatening ppl in any type of way, they should be banned or even deleted depending on the extent of it all.Now granted this person has been taken care of on nm and staff has helped me alot with him but it stems beyond nm.. now tell me you wouldn't be bothered by something like this everyday you log on.

Asdsdaf Pages You from Boar's Tusk Inn (Nightmist): so hows this pregnancy of yours going
Asdsdaf Pages You from Boar's Tusk Inn (Nightmist): the ugly annoyance ready to come out or it died of passive cancer already ? sure hope it aint as ugly as your other 2 retards.

goidycat:  I wish you would die
goidycat:  save me the hassle of all this

goidycat:  you didnt die yet
goidycat:  I was wishing you would
goidycat:  you and that cancer ridden baby your carryin


not very nice eh?    Just figured I'd give an example.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Bishop on 03/22/03 at 16:23:20
my only point is that for a first bannable offence, a week comp ban is excessive - that's all.

::)
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by wonderful_nightmare on 03/22/03 at 16:28:27
must be me but i wouldn't take any notice of that i would just c it as annoying.
all i c is text on a computer screen that can't do any harm to me at all. guess not everybody thinks about it the same :D but i do think that if someone complains about beeing threatened a ban is in it's palce :d
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Zephie on 03/22/03 at 18:55:59
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/875.html
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by Pandilex on 03/22/03 at 19:21:57

on 03/21/03 at 15:01:08, Bishop wrote:
It's total bs - a dayban or character ban would have been more than sufficient.


It is very, very, very simple. It could not even be more simple than it is. It says when you log on that you must keep all chat clean or be banned for up to a week.

Which part of that sentance are people failing to understand?

If you don't like the potential punishments then do not play, it really is that simple.

I am not interested in your opinion of what is sufficient or not, I have put this rule in and there is nothing wrong with it. It is remarkably easy not to break it, for example have you ever seen me break it before? I think not, and I've been with this game since the start. And yes, I get lots and lots of abuse at different times, I get threatening e-mails, pages, and IMs all the time. Typing words into a box isn't going to do anything for me.

If you break the rules, you are punished according to the nightmist law. As for judgement of what is right or wrong, you have the IQ to play the game, you should have the IQ to differentiate between general game type conversation and serious unpleasant threats and complaints.

If you do have trouble distinguishing, then go play another game because you'll almost certainly find yourself banned if you cross the line.
Title: Re: 'Threatening Behavior'
Post by newb on 03/24/03 at 03:04:06
I know this shouldn't be brought back up, but you keep saying "all" chat must be kept clean. From what I hear, clan chat doesn't count so you should probably put that on the logon message.


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