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Title: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/28/03 at 00:51:49 Just alittle thing im going over.... 1st off...Staff strongly disagree with people sharing anything. 2nd...Possession is 9/10ths of the law. So if someone shared say o i dunno..a chairman crit with someone else and 1 of the 2 persons takes it...Looking back at rule #1.....As far as staff should be concerned its nobodys fault but your own that one of the two people took the hypothetical chaiman crit.... Now looking at point #2...the person that has the chairman crit has position therfor he owns what he has and should be able to do what he wants with what he has correct? So by all means everyone post on this and add your two cents...and i encourage staff to post also |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/28/03 at 01:48:14 Pls everyone post something with what you think |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Zephie on 07/28/03 at 01:59:04 ok, here's what i think :P i think your opinion of the individuals involved is making you a tad biased and not letting you see the situation for what it really is. what's right and what's wrong and what's fair and what isn't fair. if you take a minute and think back without letting your personal feelings blur your vision, i'm sure you will realize that the real chairman was rob (astinus is his main, i think) if down the line the clan HAS to be sold, the money should either a) be split between the 'two' sharing chairmans (or so they claim) or b) the logs be checked to see who the original chairman was and if there was ever an 'official' "hey lets share chairman" conversation. if this had happend to any clan, let's say Broken....and Lich appointed himself chairman instead of lady_maha, wouldn't you still think the clan belonged to Lady_Maha ? in all honesty, i really doubt jlh has time for b....so hopefully maybe a can be done, or nothing at all. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/28/03 at 02:45:08 Ok well being that both people shared the clan from the beginning say in fact which happened " one founder booted the other one out due to clan issues; fighting etc. That founder had his right to do it because he did own the clan... now you cant split a clan in half correct? So the only way to fix the problem would be get rid of the problem correct? ok so thats what happened. And since the current chairman did own it as well and did make the decision to push the other one out was between them and no one else. So i dont think you can call it stealing or say it was anyones clan. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Pandilex on 07/28/03 at 03:24:25 We've handed clans to you on a plate... We gave you leaders and members, but leaders kept booting everyone and stealing the clan because people made people they didn't know well leaders. We then gave you founders, leaders and members because you chose poorly when it came to leaders and didn't want people taking over your clans. We then gave you chairmen/women, for when you foolishly appointed founders who you could not completely trust. And now, given all these things, despite chairpersons and founders being totally unnecessary if you excerise vigilance and caution in selecting who leads your clan, you still screw up.... Well staff were reluctant to help before, and even moreso after the above changes. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/28/03 at 03:37:36 Which makes me wonder the whole reason staff is neglecting to sell that clan. And then you will come back with the clan was stolen. That would be contradicting all you just said. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/28/03 at 03:49:41 Me "liking" one person and not "liking" the other really doesnt have anything to do with what im saying....it all comes down to who has possession and that is this one person that has it now. Its his own fault he was sharing a chairman crit....like staff says....."Dont share" |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Stotic on 07/28/03 at 03:58:10 on 07/28/03 at 02:45:08, Violate wrote:
I don't see how taking a clan you bi-own and selling it fixes the clan's problem. Seems just like a quick money making scheme. I may be wrong for that I've been gone for a week. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/28/03 at 04:05:43 considering the money was going back to most the people who put the money into ... i dont think anyone would be making any profit really. And JLH stated when u donate to a clan you donate to the chairman. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/28/03 at 04:52:12 Staff doesnt support sharing Ownership is 9 10ths The losing persons own fault |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Lady_Maha on 07/28/03 at 05:20:29 on 07/28/03 at 01:59:04, Zephie wrote:
Well, Broken does belong to both of us, and did from the very beginning, when we shared the costs for the clan creation and the first few rooms (creating the clan on Lady_Maha simply happened because I was the one online at the time we decided to start the clan). That's why we decided to create the crit Broken_Chairman, that sits in a shared account. If Broken ever ended up getting sold (which will happen the day hell freezes over), we would not only split the winnings between each other, but also give the fair share to those who worked and donated. The one advantage that makes sharing a little safer for us is, that we also live together (cuz we're married in rl), so if either of us ripped the other off, we coud just beat the sh*t out of the other one in rl and get the clan and crits back by force. (cast iron skillet can work wonders ;D ) I don't think that I would trust anyone aside from my rl husband with the chairman of Broken though. What happened in DA was a whole different story though, the two who shared the chairman crit were not related or living together. Going by rules, yes, Rob shared, got booted and lost. Going by ethics however, I'd say it was wrong to do so. Unfortunately not all rules are always ethical, so in the end Rob seems to be the loser. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by -Gaddy- on 07/28/03 at 06:51:43 I'd still like to understand what people were saying about Anarchy sharing with some girl who gave out his pass, he lost a lot of stuff..and it was all returned. If he was sharing and the girl gave out his pass, then how can he have all of his stuff given back? I think the fact that sharing isn't supported by staff should mean they do not give a d**n if you lose because you shared, thats what happend when Newb got banned, his whole account was banned...we couldnt access any of the crits to get gold (we managed to get that anyway) but couldnt get pandilex to give us the equip off of the crits because sharing isnt endorsed by staff, then they shouldnt be given anything either. Don't give back clans, equip, crits, or anything else if someone makes the mistake of sharing with someone that changes things on them, it is their own fault. That is why we (chase and i) stopped sharing with someone we didnt know irl, it is too big of a chance that somoene will have a mood swing and rip you off. Don't share, don't lose. Do share, take the risk, but dont expect to be given you stuff back. It seems to me that staffers should set up some kind of strict rule, and the only thing that makes sense to me would be to say, they ignore you if you say you shared and were ripped. Having your account hacked seems like it ought to be different, but how does staff know if they were hacked or if they told their password on a different form of internet communiction (oo i liked that one..seems intelligent). that is my "2 cents", peace Gaddy |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/28/03 at 07:07:11 on 07/28/03 at 05:20:29, Lady_Maha wrote:
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/28/03 at 08:05:41 on 07/28/03 at 04:05:43, Violate wrote:
when i see something like this all i got to do is laugh..#1 Me/Vic/Jose/RaFa put in clan over 4 mill gold thank u very much (combined) on the other hand Rick has not donated anything even close to that amount..he gets mad like a girl cuz he was wrong over clerics needing char(cuz more char does =more healing) so he then decides to steal the clan..so ok i was wrong for sharing bam i lost my clan...same day he said "im not selling clan just cleaning it up" bam ok next day everyone is removed form clan.bam ok he wants to sell clan.Now check this out. The Chairman of a clan can submit the clan house for selling if there is no-one in the clan apart from the chairman, and the clan must have a house. The house is sold only for 75% of its value, not the name of the clan. A successful submission will be placed on the clan house selling list, with the date of placement. ---->A minimum of 1 week after this, the clan will be sold by JLH. During this time, complaints can be raised with JLH if the clan shouldn't be sold for some reason.<----- and JLH decided not to sell. seing that my "Family" put a good chunk of money into the clan i dont see a problem of leaving it as it is. He wanted clan? now he has it just cant be sold like he wanted from the start. now u guys (obviosly he paying ya) are sticking up for him. didnt he want the clan well now its his "FOREVER" i myself see nothing wrong with that. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by BRabbit on 07/28/03 at 08:14:55 Seeing as i was 'away'. Bill took over my account. i know he sold alot of my stuff to buy rooms in that clan. It didnt really bother me as long as rob was chairman. But i will not kiss ricks azz to get gold he will never see. Rick stole the clan. Rob lost out. Ryan, Bill, Dustin Rafa, Vic, Jose and I all lost out. Ryan, and Dustin remember merc? i put in 2mill in 30mins and lost it in 3 days, rick cannot be trusted and if u want to lose friends over money you will never see, go for it. I guess im done, cuz i got dycked pretty bad but rob got it the worse. Not only being betrayed by a friend. But losing an empire ;D |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by KasumiFire on 07/28/03 at 08:34:01 I've gotten screwed out of so many things it's not even funny. Millions upon millions of gold in crits gone, not to mention from people I thought were friends. I'm just too nice for my own good. I've always talked about starting over, but now that I have to, it's ridiculous. My fault for sharing, but jesus, stealing characters on a game? Grow up. As far as clan theft goes, that is an issue which is more easily resolved than item/character theft. Info from players is usually enough evidence to know who the clan actually belongs to. If it's not, then i'd think it would be an easy task to search the logs to find who created the clan. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by James on 07/28/03 at 10:04:57 Ok I will go on my second rant for the day becuse for heaven sakes no one take any freaken responsablity for there own actions and perhpas what pandilex said is true and step by step with leaders then founders and then chairman/wooman every one just kept up the same bs and where lettings other people rip you off so if you realy want a salution for this here is what should be done, Let me try and exsplane this as best as I can JLH Is adding a acount vualt of some time so... after that is done the following would happen If The Clan Is Going To Be Copleatly Gone IE Just Sale The Rooms Back To JLH Then. 1:) Memo Is Sent To All Members Stating That The Clan Will Be No More. 2:) The Chairman/Woman Gose To The Site And Sales The Rooms Off 3:) (Heres The Kicker) All Money Donated To The Clan Via The Clan Bank Will Go Back To The Person Who Donated It To There Acount Vult If The Clan Is Being Sold To Another Person Nothing Would Change |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/28/03 at 11:03:38 It all comes down to who the chairman (owner) is...rick has the chairman crit therfor hes the owner....the owner of the clan can do what they wish with the clan(in this situation) so since rick is the owner he should be able to sell the clan house if he wants to. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Zephie on 07/28/03 at 12:30:44 and this is nightmist, and jlh can choose whether or not he wants to sell or not. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Zylia on 07/28/03 at 12:37:13 I kinda have to agree here. Seeing as sharing isn't promoted.. the chairperson crit never should have been shared and the person who has the chairperson crit now should be able to sell the clan. It never should've been shared, and so they both took a risk. It's not the staff's fault that the two parties involved shared and the chairperson crit was stolen. It should just go through as usual I think. Maybe because its alot of gold involved, but I don't know. It doesn't make sense that staff should be assisting this problem. It says in the rules that staff clearly don't promote sharing, and then when a clan is stolen via sharing they help out. Why does that not make sense? The only thing that really prevents the sale is that someone complained about their own ignorance I guess? :-/ (no offense :P) |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Quince on 07/28/03 at 19:05:42 on 07/28/03 at 08:14:55, BRabbit wrote:
What's with everyone crying? You got screwed over stop looking for sympathy |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Argus on 07/28/03 at 20:57:44 Ok, if we are talking right for wrong, Jen, give back everything that belongs to chad? dustin? me? Come on, the one and only non cheating, hard working person on the game jen. Right, cause we all know that 3/4 of what she owns does not belong to her. Maybe we should also talk about how jen is on rob's side cause she hates me because i know the truths about her? If the tables were turned and Rob did it to me Jen would not care why? Because she is a biased pregnant dog, who flaunts her way through life. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by -Gaddy- on 07/28/03 at 21:42:59 That wasn't very nice Argus... I still say that if you share you're the one taking chances, not staff, but that JLH should get to decide if he buys a clan or w/e cause some clans shouldn't be sold just because the chairman decides to sell, sometimes clans are owned more by the members of it than the chairman, and the people shouldn't always be screwed just because the chairman is a annoyance. I'm sure if TR were stolen it wouldn't be sold, everyone would know that it wasn't Jen, and then the clan would be held until Jen got her stuff back and the person would get a perm ban for however they got her stuff. Cause the people who own the game can bend the rules when they know something isnt how it ought to be, if someone works for something rules shouldn't mean they get screwed cause someone else is sly enough to take it away w/o breaking rules...I'm also sure Jen isnt dumb enough to lose all of her stuff...i guess maybe Robs dumb ass out to be helped out..but he shouldn't get gold for making mistakes. O and- Why was this moved to the clans section? Doesnt make too much sense to me since really its not about a clan, more asking what people think about ownership and such (disscussing) it seems like it was moved here just so that it would be less noticable and people would stop posting on it, i dont think that is a fair or good thing to do. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Zephie on 07/28/03 at 22:45:05 Hey Rick, remind us again how you got Tenebrae? ps: Rick if it had been the other way around and you had invested as much gold in that clan as Rob, I'd be stickin up for you regardless of whether or not I like you. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Mephistroth on 07/28/03 at 22:50:03 AHHH, my old level 27/28 mage :( |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/28/03 at 22:53:28 on 07/28/03 at 21:42:59, -Gaddy- wrote:
not looking for gold and i know i made a mistake so why not just let him keep the clan ("the clan") and not sell it for some easy gold? |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Argus on 07/29/03 at 03:15:48 Dustin and I bought tenebrae? wut does that have to do with anything? and jen, how do u know how much gold i invested in this clan? i got 900k for my human thief, 1.25 mil for phobos, 1 mil for eclypse, 800k for 4 cr's, 450k for 2 sg's, and 900k for a hermes, now i dont have any of that gold? where do u think it went jen? Exactly......you dont know ur just passing judgement and making a conclusion because you and i dont get along. Yeah really smart jen, sounds like your as smart as you are a hard worker, and u dont work, thats gotta tell u something. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Lappa on 07/29/03 at 03:34:15 even i can sit back, tramp around nightmist and get free stuff.... |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Stotic on 07/29/03 at 05:47:57 When something of such large proportion is handled the rules are bended. Then again there aren't solid rules. Then again this isn't a business. Then again...JLH owns this game and can do anything in his free will. I'm sure he's not out there to gain positive PR. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/29/03 at 09:14:15 on 07/29/03 at 03:15:48, Argus wrote:
lol if u trying to say u spent all that on clan u really are full of it lol think on how much u wasted on that new hafling thief u bought and how muhc gold u still have cuz there is no way in hell u wasted all that on clan and i can GUARANTEE u that. not once was a memo of u donating u just bought like 10 rooms wiht al the money we donated and u said "i jsut wasted 700k" ok then u bought 1 topaz key for 250k then thats about it boy what else u wastred like 80k when we changed a sauna to a vault.. if u say u wasted more than that u are really full of it. heck why dont u just say u bought all the rooms cuz thats how its going 1s t u said u donated like 2 mil then u told vic u wasted 4 mill on clanand now u are really exagerating sayiung u wasted al that on clan..so just post and be like "i bought all the rooms myself" cuz thats what u are trying to lead to.. oh and your point of view how much u think my "family" donated in total?..........how much anyone wants to bet he is gonna say less than him. ;D |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Argus on 07/29/03 at 16:16:47 I donated just as much, ur just gonna deny it so I dont care. When it comes down to it, the clan is mine, not urs. Arrugala Ðëådlÿ ££îäñçë Chairman , aha MY CLAN. Nothing you can do about it. I wasn't selling clan for my personal benefit. I felt bad for all of those who donated and it was going to waste because you and ur "family" ruined the clan, and they all wanted to leave. What's done is done, I don't need the gold, or want the gold. I barely play anymore, you see I have better things to worry about. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Despair on 07/29/03 at 20:22:37 I can't see how you can say he ruined the clan when you were the one who removed everyone and put it up for sale . . . Plus if you don't want or need the cash why not give him his clan back? |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/29/03 at 22:34:56 Cause i'd make rick give me the gold before he gave it to Rob 8) |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/30/03 at 00:10:19 on 07/29/03 at 16:16:47, Argus wrote:
lol even if u did play all youd do is sit in town all day cuz ill be on your ass so fast and theres nothing u can do about it but die.. so why dont u jsut stay in town like a little girl and post on forums..oh and keep lying no way in hell 1 person can donate "as much" as 4 and seing that vic alone donated about 3 mill i think your full of it.. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Lappa on 07/30/03 at 00:21:53 and unlike u hes still giving the members that contributed only to have such a great clan brought down by the drama of some losers such as urselves.... doesnt mean hes gonna punish everyone else bc ur sad loser asses had to ruin a great thing he helped build |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by -Gaddy- on 07/30/03 at 00:55:59 on 07/28/03 at 22:53:28, Kazuya wrote:
I have to say thats what i'd consider the best thing to do. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Lappa on 07/30/03 at 02:03:57 why let the fool that took down the up and coming #1 clan get his way after him and his friends caused enough trouble to destroy it. its the only clan i've seen go so far so fast, and god rick did his part, and i applaud him bc then as rick went his own way, he did NOT i repeat did NOT go back to the clan he left to make DA, bc he left it for a reason, making me and some others to think it was set up by rob to make gold, as rick made it to be a good clan, i dont care where the gold goes, and even after donating 1 mil myself to DA on hurley, id rather see the gold split between the people that built the clan rather the people that destroyed it, even tho they put their share in too... |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Maldavian on 07/30/03 at 02:41:38 Sorry, i might have read over it, but what clan are you all exaclty talking about?....just wondering.. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Lappa on 07/30/03 at 02:49:47 /sigh thats so sad.... its deadly alliance |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/30/03 at 02:51:16 lol ....true that lappa ... |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/30/03 at 06:36:53 lol funny how the people i kill are the ones who post against me..get over it JLH made his desicion so stop crying. btw who messed up clan? who booted everyone to sell clan and then say " giving back the gold to those who donated"..when we all know hes full of it.why did i rejoin illuminati ? cuz will is a man i can trust and he trusts me. oh btw rick werent u the one saying "if clan ever falls we sell and get half and half" thats helping others? hes just making a little show so u all can go against me. pfft liek i care ya aint got nothing on and never will.... P.S. someone lock this post its getting boring hearing all the same crap and lies of last week |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/30/03 at 07:24:52 then stop reading it |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/30/03 at 10:14:10 btw ive killed u lots more than uve killed me ;D ! lock the post now .. lol |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/30/03 at 10:31:25 on 07/30/03 at 10:14:10, Violate wrote:
maybe cuz i dont log? ;D k im done lol |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/30/03 at 10:40:46 that was 1 time when i was training with 140k on me i didnt need to hand you for free ;P |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Kazuya on 07/30/03 at 13:39:31 heya its vic again lol i would just like to give my say on this post...ok well a few days ago i had told epic that what rick told me he was goin to do with the clan gold was donate it to creme something epic and rick had planned for a while and was just waiting for the right time to do it...epic denied the whole thing and know look at him he just found out tht clan isnt selling and got mad why cuz he wants that gold so bad its sad how he needs to fed off others hard work...ok as for ryan you only take ricks side cuz he giving you some of that profit..wich you told me over and over via pages thinkin it would get me mad i could care less ive had heeps of gold through out my game playing time if i cared for it i would still have it but i dont i basicly just givve it all to rob or just blow it off on dumb shiz i really dont get worked on this game i laugh at you fools that need to take advantage of those who are good and HONEST to get what you want simply cuz you can do it on your own its really sad to se there cant ever be a game with honest and trusting people such as me rob jose and rafa,ok yea they maybe asses but they can be trusted 100% i have done trades with no staff around and havent felt the erge to steal like most you have just like to say...rick your cheap you cant get nuts on your own you now rob was a fast gold maker fast trainer good uprising player or better yet 1 of the best n00bs in this game knowing since he started he took on the best in such short time he created the clan that had TR on the run in some short time..do you actually think if you made this clan that some 1 was goin to join it i really dont think so rick you just used rob to get what he has...just cuz your jealus...that is all |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by AnArChY on 07/30/03 at 16:44:03 /nod |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Violate on 07/30/03 at 20:04:57 First of all did you think i only said those things to piss you off? ya.. id be getting what i put into it... not like money matters. I dont even really play much anymoe cept to talk or occasionally help clannies. I sure hope your not saying im not trustworthy because ive been in this game a hella lot longer than most the people on here and have never stolen a thing. |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Wise_Crack on 07/30/03 at 20:07:03 I hope i'm not too late to talk... * gets a microphone first of all, i'm not here to blame people for the great, good, bad or terrible things that ever happen to ANY individual (who were in the old DA) what i do want to say that even though i may seem "invisible" to u guys (all the papis who ran the business) at the time....I saw an empire!!, a wonderful "empire" that (i really have to agree) made ppl tremble for a time but it's true, empires, don't last...!!! (even if it still does exist for 3 more yrs, it will go down because HUMANS ain't perfect) whether because of economy (in this case gold), dishonesty, pressures, power-hungry ppl, power-struggles (the dramas) and etc etc etc it doesn't matter now, don't matter who benefit/lose from it..... heck, at least this is not even close to those really big real life empires that we learn in history that fell terribly after long yrs or so (ancient Rome, old USSR, Nazi Germany, etc etc etc) ::) i don't wanna get into that but yeah...where was I again?? crap i forgot.... * goes out for some smoke |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Epic on 07/30/03 at 21:01:45 on 07/30/03 at 13:39:31, Kazuya wrote:
Dude you are a ****ing retard, Everyone knows i started this clan not even worrying about getting members and im still not worried about it...if people want to donate good if not o well use your gold to get some nuts for yourself first....and mad how did i seem made in the first post when i started this...i said since rick is the owner he should be able to do cetrain owner things is all |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by Wise_Crack on 07/30/03 at 21:08:44 /lick epic :D |
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Title: Re: Ownership Post by James on 08/03/03 at 21:33:14 where we get into trouble is when staff are nice to ppl and help out with theft then people who havn't been helped are getting the raw end of the deal, so its as much a problem on our is as it is staff's becuse staff want to be nice and help out but they can't do it for every one so ppl get left out so the only real salution untill the trading system is put in is that staff simply stop helping with staff enfocre the rules 100% no staff no trade and let pandilex continue to serch for the a*holes who are doing these things malicosly (no idea if thats correct spelling) as I see it this is the only viable salution so why don't we? |
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