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Topic: Swearing/Offensive Chat (Read 449 times) |
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JLH
Game Creator / Administrator
  
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Swearing/Offensive Chat
« on: 11/19/03 at 00:02:43 » |
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These are my views on the issue, and may not represent the views of other staff (including pandilex).
Assume you are a staffer on a normal character in a clan.
To address the issue of people swearing in your clan chat, if no-one complains about someone swearing, there is no need to ban, if a clan member complains, you have to ban (if appropriate).
However, if no-one complains but you yourself do not approve, you may ban (if appropriate). The issue then arrises, what if one of your friends swears. Technically, you do not have to ban them, because no-one complained. But if someone you don't like swears, and you ban them, is that ok?
This is where my personal views may differ from other staff, because I would say yes, because you yourself (as a staffer) took offense to the swearing done by the person you don't like and therefore are justified to ban them.
This is bound to cause acusations of favoritism, and i'm not really sure on this one, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but if someone in your clan wants someone banned who swore, all they have to do is complain to you, and you have to ban them (even if they are your friend).
Basically, to sum up, if someone complains, you have to act, if no-one complains, you can complain to yourself and ban, or you may not. So if you want someone banned complain! otherwise don't moan that they weren't banned.
Another slightly weird example maybe, there is a staff chat channel, if a staff member swears on there, should he/she be banned because a player swore just before who you did ban. I don't think it's yet happened that a staffer has been banned for swearing in sysop chat, and the reprocusions of such an event would bound to be interesting when pandilex simply removes the ban that x staff member just put on him. (not that pandilex has been known to speak creatively now and then of course).
I'm sure there are many "real world" times in nightmist when clan issues like this have arisen, and you all scream for favoritism (another reason why pandilex and i rarely plan to hire more staff, it's just not worth the hastle with everything getting automated).
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Cosworth
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #1 on: 11/19/03 at 00:11:15 » |
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This has happened many time where people have complained and theres nothing done about it so what happens if you do complain to a staffer and then its not acted on seeing as someone swore and then there was a complaint there after the staff member did not act on the complaint what would happen then?
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JLH
Game Creator / Administrator
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #2 on: 11/19/03 at 00:12:57 » |
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if a staff member ignores your complaint, and you are sure they have read it, then you can bring the issue to myself or pandilex, and we will look into it.
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Medora
Nightmist Game Staff
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #3 on: 11/19/03 at 00:17:37 » |
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My opinion on this topic is as follows. I will not ban for clan chat/friend chat/party chat. If someone complains about the use of language in those particular chats, I say, you dont have to be in that clan/have those friends/or be in that party. Simple enough.
If someone cusses on an open square, whether its a friend or someone I dont like, if someone complains, or I am offended, I will ban if there is other people in the room. If I'm sitting in my clan pub and people are cussing in the room, I wont ban. If someone complains, refer to the above. You dont have to be in the clan. Same with any other clan pub or private and player owned square.
If I am on my normal crits or my staff crit, and someone cusses in front of me, be it a friend or someone I dont like, I either warn or ban, not based on who they are, but based on how the words were used. Generally, if curse words are used as an expression, I warn, if they are used as an insult, I ban. Either way, its definately going to be at least a warning. Guess it depends on my mood that day as well.
If Im sitting on an open square, and a friend cusses, I will warn them/ban them just the same as I would any player. Not because Im necassarily offended, or because someone complains, simply because it says, Keep chat clean. I believe no matter who it is, if someone says it and it offends you, that if a friend says it you should equally be offended.
In my opinion it is favortism if you warn/ban one person for saying something in an open square, and not your friends for doing the exact same thing. Its not about whether or not its offensive in my eyes, it is that cussing in open chat is against the rules.
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Belladonna is no longer my main, but a lvl 1 name holder in my account. Maybe Ill update this when I decide whats to be my main next.
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Epic
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #4 on: 11/19/03 at 00:37:27 » |
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pfsh i've maybe cuss'd once or twice and people have actually got on msn to tell a staff member that i did infact say a "bad word" then i got a banned..just thought i'd bring this up because it was stupid... 
(delete delete)
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Medora
Nightmist Game Staff
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #5 on: 11/19/03 at 00:46:57 » |
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I might add that if it is a repeated offender, I ban with no warning, and without even telling them why.
Thats what staff comments are for.
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Belladonna is no longer my main, but a lvl 1 name holder in my account. Maybe Ill update this when I decide whats to be my main next.
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Angel
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #6 on: 11/19/03 at 02:19:23 » |
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Perhaps rather than merely having views you should decide on a policy and stick to it for all staff. A system where, depending on which staff you complain to dictates whether a person get's banned seems flawed at best. Perhaps a list of the various staff and where/which words they will ban for, so the players know which staff to complain to for the various offences 
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jadedgothgirl
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #7 on: 11/19/03 at 03:15:05 » |
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1. I agree with Angel, a policy on this should be set down for staff to follow. Its the only way to be fair. Leaving it up the the indiviual staff is where you run into trouble because (as zephie stated above) it depends on the persons mood and how they viewed the cursing. What might be offensive to one person might not necessarily be offensive to another. It all depends on the contex of the the cursing. If it was an insult directed at someone, yes I think they should be banned. If it was something as simple as getting upset over say getting booted off the server while in the middle of something, exp. "F***** server booted me grrr" then it should be taken in contex. When your upset ya dont necessarily watch your mouth, so to speak, but would that be a bannable offensen IMO no. A warning in this situation is more appropriate.
-shrugs- just my opinion.
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Bean
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #8 on: 11/19/03 at 04:52:26 » |
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Epic, I saw you swear like four times at the SGH yesterday alone... and that was only in ten minutes...
But anywho I think the best policy is zero tolerance. 
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Vagabond
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #9 on: 11/19/03 at 06:40:35 » |
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We have 1 kid in our clan who objects to us swearing, and we try not too, but, sometimes nothing makes your point better than a well placed **** off!!!
If anyone takes offence to RARE use of "foul language" they should ask the person to stop, and if it continues contact the clan chairman, Banning should be a last resort..
Staff SHOULD be able to call the situation as they see it, first they should figure out what happened, then figure out what to do bout it.. I think they should remain consistent even if dealing with a complaint about a friend...as my faith in all but a couple of staff members has been proven time and time again to be missgiven, i know it isnt going to happen like that tho.
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Kalel
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #10 on: 11/19/03 at 07:20:02 » |
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I'v been warned maybe twice about swaring only baned once (suposalby) any ways so what about staff who warn?
and I agree perhaps it should be a set desicion
virbal warning
10 min ban
and day ban
prob not the 10 min but just threw it in for g.p.
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Lady_Maha
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #11 on: 11/19/03 at 08:46:52 » |
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I think the staffers do enough to avoid the whole favoritism issue. When they ban, for whatever reason, I can't see any favoritism, on the contrary, most are stricter on their friends than on others simply to avoid those accusations. If I'm not mistaken Jen even banned Chris before, which should be proof enough that there is no exceptions for friends.
Since we do have some rather young people in our clan, we try to enforce keeping clan chat clean as well. Occasionally someone will swear, but we give them warnings, and if the person continues we boot them from the clan. It very rarely happens that a clannie will complain to staff about swearing in clan chat, since we take care of offensive language that way.
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Vagabond
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #12 on: 11/19/03 at 08:56:50 » |
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/clan chat off
Basicly with our clan, when there is bout 4 or 5 more "mature" (im not gonna say old for a couple of years yet) swearing is inevitable, I suggest ^^^^ if you are that much of a controling nazi, especially if we've just got home from the pub....at the end of the day, they are just words, get over it!
Also if you dont like what people are saying on /friend chat..take them off dont nark them out
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Deathwish
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #13 on: 11/19/03 at 09:04:52 » |
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No its simple I do not wish to walk around with my clan chat off.. If someone in my clan swears they get warned after that they get the boot simple as that... It's part of clan rules if you cant cope with them yet again.. Why the hell are you in my clan.. BOG OFF! 
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Oz
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #14 on: 11/19/03 at 16:22:11 » |
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Yet everyone and thier mother swears one time or another.
I still think it would be funny if staff were to just follow T.O.S. as it is written.
Quote:| Don't use profanity . If you simply MUST talk like a drunken sailor, then go some place where no one can hear you. Better yet, don't swear at all! We will, on occasion, GAG you if we find you offensive enough while we're paying attention. But don't assume that we will always be watching. And no fair getting mad at Nightmist-online.co.uk if someone manages to say something horrible in your presence. |
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What would be funnier then not being able to talk/chat with fellow players in-game?
Granted it says nothing in that paragraph allowing you knowledge that you can be banned, but how mny people actually read the log-on messages?
Quote:| Because of an increased amount of abuse from unruly players, if you give staff any abuse at all, including accusations of cheating, bad language, offensive comments, etc. then you can and will find yourself BANNED. Be polite and recieve the same in kind. Problems with staff conduct should and can ONLY be resolved by e-mail - contact myself or JLH by e-mail. The addresses are in our profiles. -Pandilex |
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This only makes it seem that if someone uses foul language towards a staffer they will get banned.
Summed up:
I'm an old man, I know right from wrong. Staff yall need to simplify this for the lil kiddies who play.
my $.02
signed: your friendly, foul mouthed, drunken sailor 
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Oz untill all my crap is sold...them i'm blowing this popsicle stand.
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Eternyte
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #15 on: 11/19/03 at 16:45:11 » |
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As stated above 'Zero Tolerance' is the key. Friend/Enemy/Party/Clan if someone swears they should NEVER be banned. This is because the players have the option so 'turn off' the chat. (Unless the swearing is directed)
For example, ]/t <player> msg, or ]<player> msg. Personally I think any abuse directed at another player should warrant a permanent ban.
Normal chat and pages, I feel swearing should not be tolerated at all. Even if no one does find it offensive. Pages especially because they are directed at a specific person, with the intent to be malicious. However, you can only comment on this if a staff member is monitoring, or it is reported. I think if it is reported, the date/time of incident should be mandatory to have action taken, or evidence could be fabricated. If this is the case, the person making up the incident should be banned.
The person to whom the swearing is directed might not take offense at all. Personally I don't take offense to anything said on the game. However, I feel it is part of a staff members job to ensure a 'game for all ages' is kept with clean speech.
Also the context in which cursing is used should be a factor. However, you could argue you were on joking, and not being malicious. However if the person being cursed at thinks it was malicious, the whole conversation and incidents before should be investigated.
For instance, I could provoke someone into swearing at me, then run to a staff member to report that player. In such cases, the person provoking should be banned.
The problem with this is so many people swear. Intentionally or not, and it will be impossible for staff members to monitor all chats, plus doing their specific jobs assigned to themselves.
So to sum it up. If its Friend/Enemy/Party/Clan, it needs to be reported if someone finds if offensive. If someone is cursed at through a page it needs to be reported with evidence to be checkout out.
Anything seen as swearing in normal chat, should be an instant ban without warning.
Really it's not down to the staff at all. It's down to the players to report such behaviour. Then for staff to decide appropriate action. Good luck!
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Pandilex
Game Creator / Administrator
Maneki Neko! (‚Ü‚Ë‚«‚Ë‚±j
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Re: Swearing/Offensive Chat
« Reply #16 on: 11/19/03 at 22:31:30 » |
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Please don't memo me about swearing, I cannot act unless I am online at the time, and it happened very recently.
Sorry.
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